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Topic:  RE: TOS to Boston College?

Topic:  RE: TOS to Boston College?
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Kevin Finnegan
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  Message Not Read  RE: TOS to Boston College?
   Posted: 2/16/2021 12:30:58 PM 
Question: Who made more money after leaving OHIO; Groce or Christian? I think Groce made some good money at Illinois, but I figure due to the amount of time in the ACC, Christian may have made more. That'd be funny if true, because Groce's players pretty much catapulted Christian to BC.
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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: TOS to Boston College?
   Posted: 2/16/2021 1:04:02 PM 
Kevin Finnegan wrote:
Question: Who made more money after leaving OHIO; Groce or Christian? I think Groce made some good money at Illinois, but I figure due to the amount of time in the ACC, Christian may have made more. That'd be funny if true, because Groce's players pretty much catapulted Christian to BC.


Groce made 1.7 million per year at Illinois and Christian made north of a million at BC. Kent's really the only place Christian has succeeded on his own. He followed Kent's Elite 8 team with six years of 20+ wins, four regular season MAC titles, two MCAA appearances and three NIT appearances. At least the last four or five years were mostly with his recruits. He then went to a downtrodden TCU program and continued its losing ways with one winning overall season in four and an 18-44 MWC record. His two good seasons at Ohio were with Groce's players. At BC he was way out of his league with a 26-94 ACC record and just one winning overall season.


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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: TOS to Boston College?
   Posted: 2/16/2021 2:19:51 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
FearLeon wrote:
Bobcat1998 wrote:
We had a chance to be truly special as Groce left the cupboard STOCKED! Dude came in and broke Ivo, made Jon want to quit and wasted a Sweet 16 team and 2 years of Nick. Best thing about JC was his assistant coaches BK and A Stewart. Good riddance and enjoy the MAAC.


+1

Nailed it.



Unfortunately, in hindsight, this is exactly what happened. With the team he inherited, Dale Bandy or Billy Hahn could have won the MAC regular season, and probably the conference tournament. Am sure the JC apologists will now pounce, but that’s my considered assessment, and I’m sticking with it.


If Bandy and Hahn could haves on, why didn’t they with their opportunities? In Hahn’s case he had two of the greatest at the same time and TWO NBA players at the same time.


while I was using a little hyperbole for BTC's sake, I will say that the returners from that 2012 team were as a team better than anything either Hahn or Bandy ever assembled. You mention the talents of a few individual players, but they weren't as strong from top to bottom. (And that collapse in that final game was on JC, not the players, per se. He couldn't motivate them when the chips were on the table. Look at his history in tournaments. It's not good. If this was the only time that he had a team collapse in a tournament environment, I'd be more inclined to finger the players.)


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

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ohiocatfan1
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  Message Not Read  RE: TOS to Boston College?
   Posted: 2/16/2021 2:38:54 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
FearLeon wrote:
Bobcat1998 wrote:
We had a chance to be truly special as Groce left the cupboard STOCKED! Dude came in and broke Ivo, made Jon want to quit and wasted a Sweet 16 team and 2 years of Nick. Best thing about JC was his assistant coaches BK and A Stewart. Good riddance and enjoy the MAAC.


+1

Nailed it.



Unfortunately, in hindsight, this is exactly what happened. With the team he inherited, Dale Bandy or Billy Hahn could have won the MAC regular season, and probably the conference tournament. Am sure the JC apologists will now pounce, but that’s my considered assessment, and I’m sticking with it.


If Bandy and Hahn could haves on, why didn’t they with their opportunities? In Hahn’s case he had two of the greatest at the same time and TWO NBA players at the same time.


while I was using a little hyperbole for BTC's sake, I will say that the returners from that 2012 team were as a team better than anything either Hahn or Bandy ever assembled. You mention the talents of a few individual players, but they weren't as strong from top to bottom. (And that collapse in that final game was on JC, not the players, per se. He couldn't motivate them when the chips were on the table. Look at his history in tournaments. It's not good. If this was the only time that he had a team collapse in a tournament environment, I'd be more inclined to finger the players.)


How about the performance in the NIT against Denver? Talk about a collapse.

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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: TOS to Boston College?
   Posted: 2/16/2021 3:42:08 PM 
ohiocatfan1 wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
FearLeon wrote:
Bobcat1998 wrote:
We had a chance to be truly special as Groce left the cupboard STOCKED! Dude came in and broke Ivo, made Jon want to quit and wasted a Sweet 16 team and 2 years of Nick. Best thing about JC was his assistant coaches BK and A Stewart. Good riddance and enjoy the MAAC.


+1

Nailed it.



Unfortunately, in hindsight, this is exactly what happened. With the team he inherited, Dale Bandy or Billy Hahn could have won the MAC regular season, and probably the conference tournament. Am sure the JC apologists will now pounce, but that’s my considered assessment, and I’m sticking with it.


If Bandy and Hahn could haves on, why didn’t they with their opportunities? In Hahn’s case he had two of the greatest at the same time and TWO NBA players at the same time.


while I was using a little hyperbole for BTC's sake, I will say that the returners from that 2012 team were as a team better than anything either Hahn or Bandy ever assembled. You mention the talents of a few individual players, but they weren't as strong from top to bottom. (And that collapse in that final game was on JC, not the players, per se. He couldn't motivate them when the chips were on the table. Look at his history in tournaments. It's not good. If this was the only time that he had a team collapse in a tournament environment, I'd be more inclined to finger the players.)


How about the performance in the NIT against Denver? Talk about a collapse.



Another piece of corroborative evidence. There certainly is a pattern here, for those willing to recognize it.


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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GroverBall
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  Message Not Read  RE: TOS to Boston College?
   Posted: 2/16/2021 4:11:48 PM 

Forgot that Walt did not attempt a single shot???????

Denver trailed by as many as seven points in the second half, but staged a rally to knock off the Bobcats 61-57 in a first-round game in the National Invitational Tournament on Tuesday night inside Magness Arena. The loss ended Ohio’s season at 24-10. With the win, the Pioneers (22-9) advance to a second-round NIT matchup at No. 2 seed Maryland.

Ohio, the sixth-seed in the Alabama regional of the NIT bracket, led 42-35 in the second half after a D.J. Cooper 3-pointer but couldn’t hold on. The Bobcats fell to 7-7 on the road for the season, including an 0-6 mark on the road against non-conference competition.

Cooper finished with 16 points, four assists, and two rebounds in the final game of his collegiate career. The MAC Player of the Year ends his career as Ohio’s all-time leader in assists, steals, games played and started, and made 3-pointers. Cooper finishes his career as No. 12 all-time in NCAA history in career assists and No. 19 in career steals.

Cooper, Ohio’s fourth all-time leading scorer, remains the only player in Division I history to amass 2,000 points, 900 assists, 600 rebounds and 300 steals.

Senior forward Reggie Keely added 12 points for Ohio, which shot 41.5 percent overall and hit 6 of 12 from 3-point range. Senior forward Ivo Baltic ended his career with a two-point, 15-rebound performance. Senior guard Walter Offutt did not attempt a single shot and finished with three rebounds and one assist.
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FearLeon
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  Message Not Read  RE: TOS to Boston College?
   Posted: 2/16/2021 5:09:27 PM 
GroverBall wrote:
Forgot that Walt did not attempt a single shot???????


One of the most mind-numbing Ohio basketball statistics of all freaking time. The same guy who scored 26 points in the sweet 16 game against North Carolina.

Thanks Jimmy C.


Last Edited: 2/16/2021 5:09:50 PM by FearLeon


#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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GraffZ06
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  Message Not Read  RE: TOS to Boston College?
   Posted: 2/16/2021 6:20:24 PM 
Pataskala wrote:
Winthrop might do that this year. So could WKU or Wright St.


Get those words out of your mouth (or keyboard). Blasphemy I say. Keep him out of Dayton thanks.
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Club Hyatt
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  Message Not Read  RE: TOS to Boston College?
   Posted: 2/16/2021 11:53:22 PM 
Pataskala wrote:
Kevin Finnegan wrote:
Question: Who made more money after leaving OHIO; Groce or Christian? I think Groce made some good money at Illinois, but I figure due to the amount of time in the ACC, Christian may have made more. That'd be funny if true, because Groce's players pretty much catapulted Christian to BC.


Groce made 1.7 million per year at Illinois and Christian made north of a million at BC. Kent's really the only place Christian has succeeded on his own. He followed Kent's Elite 8 team with six years of 20+ wins, four regular season MAC titles, two MCAA appearances and three NIT appearances. At least the last four or five years were mostly with his recruits. He then went to a downtrodden TCU program and continued its losing ways with one winning overall season in four and an 18-44 MWC record. His two good seasons at Ohio were with Groce's players. At BC he was way out of his league with a 26-94 ACC record and just one winning overall season.


Groce is still making his 1.7 million due to a buyout so its safe to say he made more money total than JC from the day he left Athens and turned over the program to him. JC I believe was initially just under 1 million at BC so plausible he ended up pocketing close to 1.3 in his final season with all the years he was there.

BC is often decent in football. The Big East saved it bringing in consistent names at home for the fans and recruiting. Without that or ACC membership they have currently football would have died. Boston is a great pro sports town and with the Celtics and Bruins don't need college basketball that I can see.


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Bobcat1998
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  Message Not Read  RE: TOS to Boston College?
   Posted: 2/17/2021 10:12:59 AM 
I forgot about Walt in the Denver game. What the absolutely "you know what????" Disgusting is the least of what I can say. And no one is even mentioning his abhorrent time at TCU where Jamie Dixon elevated it upon his dismissal.
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ohiocatfan1
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  Message Not Read  RE: TOS to Boston College?
   Posted: 2/17/2021 10:26:05 AM 
JC is just an unlikable character as many coaches are. That can be stomached a bit better if the coach is successful but his record speaks for itself.
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FearLeon
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  Message Not Read  RE: TOS to Boston College?
   Posted: 2/17/2021 12:50:33 PM 
Bobcat1998 wrote:
And no one is even mentioning his abhorrent time at TCU where Jamie Dixon elevated it upon his dismissal.


+1 nailed it!

JC is one of the most overrated college basketball coaches of all-time.



Last Edited: 2/17/2021 2:57:57 PM by FearLeon


#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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100%Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: TOS to Boston College?
   Posted: 2/17/2021 3:46:52 PM 
Bobcat1998 wrote:
I forgot about Walt in the Denver game. What the absolutely "you know what????" Disgusting is the least of what I can say. And no one is even mentioning his abhorrent time at TCU where Jamie Dixon elevated it upon his dismissal.


Going off memory, didn't Walt attempt 0 shots in that game?
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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: TOS to Boston College?
   Posted: 2/17/2021 3:53:43 PM 
FearLeon wrote:
Bobcat1998 wrote:
And no one is even mentioning his abhorrent time at TCU where Jamie Dixon elevated it upon his dismissal.


+1 nailed it!

JC is one of the most overrated college basketball coaches of all-time.


This would be an interesting off-season topic for basketball and football.
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ohiocatfan1
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  Message Not Read  RE: TOS to Boston College?
   Posted: 2/17/2021 5:15:47 PM 
FearLeon wrote:
Bobcat1998 wrote:
And no one is even mentioning his abhorrent time at TCU where Jamie Dixon elevated it upon his dismissal.


+1 nailed it!

JC is one of the most overrated college basketball coaches of all-time.





Understatement. What those who have hired him see I will never know.

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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: TOS to Boston College?
   Posted: 2/17/2021 5:33:02 PM 
Club Hyatt wrote:
Pataskala wrote:
Kevin Finnegan wrote:
Question: Who made more money after leaving OHIO; Groce or Christian? I think Groce made some good money at Illinois, but I figure due to the amount of time in the ACC, Christian may have made more. That'd be funny if true, because Groce's players pretty much catapulted Christian to BC.


Groce made 1.7 million per year at Illinois and Christian made north of a million at BC. Kent's really the only place Christian has succeeded on his own. He followed Kent's Elite 8 team with six years of 20+ wins, four regular season MAC titles, two MCAA appearances and three NIT appearances. At least the last four or five years were mostly with his recruits. He then went to a downtrodden TCU program and continued its losing ways with one winning overall season in four and an 18-44 MWC record. His two good seasons at Ohio were with Groce's players. At BC he was way out of his league with a 26-94 ACC record and just one winning overall season.


Groce is still making his 1.7 million due to a buyout so its safe to say he made more money total than JC from the day he left Athens and turned over the program to him. JC I believe was initially just under 1 million at BC so plausible he ended up pocketing close to 1.3 in his final season with all the years he was there.

BC is often decent in football. The Big East saved it bringing in consistent names at home for the fans and recruiting. Without that or ACC membership they have currently football would have died. Boston is a great pro sports town and with the Celtics and Bruins don't need college basketball that I can see.


Groce had just over a year left on his contract when Illinois canned him. He was owed $1.7 million total for that period, minus what he got from Akron during that time, which apparently was about $650,000. So he wound up getting about $1 million total from Illinois. That ended last year when his old Illinois contract would have expired. https://www.news-gazette.com/news/groce-s-akron-job-will-...



We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

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JSF
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  Message Not Read  RE: TOS to Boston College?
   Posted: 2/17/2021 6:05:20 PM 
I know nuance isn’t welcomed when discussing the 2012-13 Bobcats, but I feel the need to point out Denver was a good team that year (47 in Kenpom to our 82), 8 points is not a significant lead on the road, and they were playing in short notice two time zones away at high altitude. Those factors can’t be ignored.


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Club Hyatt
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  Message Not Read  RE: TOS to Boston College?
   Posted: 2/17/2021 10:10:39 PM 
Pataskala wrote:
Club Hyatt wrote:
Pataskala wrote:
Kevin Finnegan wrote:
Question: Who made more money after leaving OHIO; Groce or Christian? I think Groce made some good money at Illinois, but I figure due to the amount of time in the ACC, Christian may have made more. That'd be funny if true, because Groce's players pretty much catapulted Christian to BC.


Groce made 1.7 million per year at Illinois and Christian made north of a million at BC. Kent's really the only place Christian has succeeded on his own. He followed Kent's Elite 8 team with six years of 20+ wins, four regular season MAC titles, two MCAA appearances and three NIT appearances. At least the last four or five years were mostly with his recruits. He then went to a downtrodden TCU program and continued its losing ways with one winning overall season in four and an 18-44 MWC record. His two good seasons at Ohio were with Groce's players. At BC he was way out of his league with a 26-94 ACC record and just one winning overall season.


Groce is still making his 1.7 million due to a buyout so its safe to say he made more money total than JC from the day he left Athens and turned over the program to him. JC I believe was initially just under 1 million at BC so plausible he ended up pocketing close to 1.3 in his final season with all the years he was there.

BC is often decent in football. The Big East saved it bringing in consistent names at home for the fans and recruiting. Without that or ACC membership they have currently football would have died. Boston is a great pro sports town and with the Celtics and Bruins don't need college basketball that I can see.


Groce had just over a year left on his contract when Illinois canned him. He was owed $1.7 million total for that period, minus what he got from Akron during that time, which apparently was about $650,000. So he wound up getting about $1 million total from Illinois. That ended last year when his old Illinois contract would have expired. https://www.news-gazette.com/news/groce-s-akron-job-will-...


The article you sent said Groce had the UI arrangement for two years with 800k additional income to the 350k. I'm going to give JC 1.3 per year at BC since some of the compensation records have him at 1.5 toward the end of his tenure.

Groce:
5 years at 1.7 million @UI
2 years at 1.15 million @UA
2 years at 650k @UA
Total 12.1 million

Christian:
2 years at 425k @OU
7 years at 1.3 million @BC
Total 9.95 million

Its fairly close earnings for JG & JC in the 9 seasons since Ohio went to the sweet 16.


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mid70sbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: TOS to Boston College?
   Posted: 2/17/2021 10:30:07 PM 
One can hate JC ... some stats though, first Groce, including his "we got hot for a few weeks year". Note his best MAC finish is 3rd and a mediocre MAC record for his 4 years. Basically, one decent year, when they caught fire,

Statistics overview
Season Team Overall Conference Standing Postseason
Ohio Bobcats (Mid-American Conference) (2008–2012)
2008–09 Ohio 15–17 7–9 6th (East)
2009–10 Ohio 22–15 7–9 5th (East) NCAA Division I Second Round
2010–11 Ohio 19–16 9–7 3rd (East) CIT Quarterfinal
2011–12 Ohio 29–8 11–5 3rd (East) NCAA Division I Sweet 16
Ohio: 85–56 (.603) 34–30 (.531)

JC at Ohio:

Ohio Bobcats (Mid-American Conference) (2012–2014)
2012–13 Ohio 24–10 14–2 T–1st (East) NIT First Round
2013–14 Ohio 25–12 11–7 3rd (East) CIT Quarterfinal
Ohio: 49–22 (.690) 25–9 (.735)

So everyone wants to crucify JC for not taking us to the Final 4 or whatever. Seems he went from Groce's 11-5 record to 14-2. And went from a 3rd in East to 1st in East. Obviously a big failure, right. Akron was 14-2, same as JC, and a darn good team. Those of you who expected a Final 4 or whatever are/were delusional. JC 74 percent wins in MAC at Ohio versus Grose at 53 percent.

I think some of you envious because he lasted longer at BC than Groce did at Illinois.

Just facts from me .. but fun to read all the animosity some of you carry years later.

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FearLeon
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  Message Not Read  RE: TOS to Boston College?
   Posted: 2/18/2021 9:36:29 AM 
mid70sbobcat wrote:


I think some of you envious because he lasted longer at BC than Groce did at Illinois.

Just facts from me .. but fun to read all the animosity some of you carry years later.



Ha.

Ask yourself this....is Illinois better off now after pulling the plug on Groce sooner than BC pulled the plug on Christian? I'm not envious of JC because he lasted 7 years at BC. I actually give Jimmy C a ton of credit. It takes true talent to last that long at a power five school and have one of the worst winning % in NCAA basketball history over that time.

I've gone through this entire thread and it looks like at least 90% of the people here agree that JC is a fraud and overrated.



Last Edited: 2/18/2021 9:39:27 AM by FearLeon


#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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FearLeon
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  Message Not Read  RE: TOS to Boston College?
   Posted: 2/18/2021 9:37:51 AM 
JSF wrote:
I know nuance isn’t welcomed when discussing the 2012-13 Bobcats, but I feel the need to point out Denver was a good team that year (47 in Kenpom to our 82), 8 points is not a significant lead on the road, and they were playing in short notice two time zones away at high altitude. Those factors can’t be ignored.


That's fine and dandy.

But one factor can't be ignored.

I don't care if Ohio played Jordan and the Bulls that night.....one of your best players can't get off a plane and not fire one shot over 40 minutes.



Last Edited: 2/18/2021 9:50:38 AM by FearLeon


#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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Andrew Ruck
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  Message Not Read  RE: TOS to Boston College?
   Posted: 2/18/2021 9:54:25 AM 
FearLeon wrote:


I don't care if Ohio played Jordan and the Bulls that night.....



In fact, if the Bobcats were led by John Groce, they likely would defeat Jordan and the Bulls...provided the game were played in the month of March.


Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

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FearLeon
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  Message Not Read  RE: TOS to Boston College?
   Posted: 2/18/2021 10:04:10 AM 
Andrew Ruck wrote:
FearLeon wrote:


I don't care if Ohio played Jordan and the Bulls that night.....



In fact, if the Bobcats were led by John Groce, they likely would defeat Jordan and the Bulls...provided the game were played in the month of March.


Straight facts...hahaha.


#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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Bobcat1996
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  Message Not Read  RE: TOS to Boston College?
   Posted: 2/18/2021 12:39:10 PM 
As Mid70sBobcat mentioned, Groce did not have a great MAC record while at Ohio. His Bobcat teams never finished higher than third in the East. Last year at Akron his Zips team won the regular season championship. Once again, JG has his team in position to win another regular season title in 2021. Groce will be remembered at Ohio for getting his teams to peak in March. March Madness is fantastic, but it lessens the importance of the regular season.

Last Edited: 2/18/2021 12:41:22 PM by Bobcat1996

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ohiocatfan1
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  Message Not Read  RE: TOS to Boston College?
   Posted: 2/18/2021 1:11:38 PM 
FearLeon wrote:
mid70sbobcat wrote:


I think some of you envious because he lasted longer at BC than Groce did at Illinois.

Just facts from me .. but fun to read all the animosity some of you carry years later.



Ha.

Ask yourself this....is Illinois better off now after pulling the plug on Groce sooner than BC pulled the plug on Christian? I'm not envious of JC because he lasted 7 years at BC. I actually give Jimmy C a ton of credit. It takes true talent to last that long at a power five school and have one of the worst winning % in NCAA basketball history over that time.

I've gone through this entire thread and it looks like at least 90% of the people here agree that JC is a fraud and overrated.





He must come off like a million dollars in an interview to keep getting jobs.

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