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Topic:  Abandon ship or circle the wagons? Player's team or Coach's team?

Topic:  Abandon ship or circle the wagons? Player's team or Coach's team?
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Maddog13
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  Message Not Read  Abandon ship or circle the wagons? Player's team or Coach's team?
   Posted: 2/3/2019 12:09:07 PM 
We have some smart Bobcats on this message board, so what is the advice here for both the coaching staff and the individual players? What should Saul as an apparent lame duck coach due with his remaining days at Ohio to thus boost his future stock? As for the players, do they have their own private team meeting and come up with solutions of their own? Does everyone do the exact same thing and expect a different result, or is it time to throw caution to the wind and get creative here? Does the team become more aggressive, angry, and determined, or do they just resort to sleep walking their way through games in the hope that it all ends much sooner rather than later? This team has an upcoming nationally televised game against highly touted Bowling Green, do they make the highlight reel as winners or as embarrassed losers? Perhaps, the simple explanation is that we just don't have the talent to dance with the rest of the MAC. However, isn't the sports world full of stories about no chance to win underdogs who pull off what is thought to be impossible? If so, how does Ohio do this?
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Abandon ship or circle the wagons? Player's team or Coach's team?
   Posted: 2/3/2019 12:38:58 PM 
These are all good questions, Maddog13. I hope that whatever course they take, they pull out some wins and build some momentum for the off-season.


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection.

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Obc2
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  Message Not Read  RE: Abandon ship or circle the wagons? Player's team or Coach's team?
   Posted: 2/3/2019 1:29:32 PM 
to be blunt, i dont see nearly enough athleticism or shooting ability on this roster to be a top quartile MAC team, which is where i expect this program to be. it pains me to admit this...

i like a bunch of the kids as individuals. i would imagine some will transfer after Saul is replaced.



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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: Abandon ship or circle the wagons? Player's team or Coach's team?
   Posted: 2/3/2019 2:37:27 PM 
I was watching Minn-Purdue today. Purdue was down by 13 at home in the second half, went on a 21-2 run and won by ten. They did it mostly by playing aggressive -- going to the hoop instead of chucking up threes, and playing in-your-face defense. It was a stark contrast to what Ohio has been doing this year.


Actually, the phrase is "Ohio on the Charles."

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OUcats82
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  Message Not Read  RE: Abandon ship or circle the wagons? Player's team or Coach's team?
   Posted: 2/4/2019 9:03:54 AM 
I would guess the players and anyone else in the locker room know Saul's days are numbered. From what I have seen/gathered I don't know if there is a pep talk, player's only meeting or anything else that would really, truly spark this team to some amazing run. Just don't think there is the talent.

With 9 regular season games, I just cannot see more than 2 more wins, maybe 3 if the Cats have one of those nights where they just shoot lights out. 5 of them are on the road. They will definitely be on the road for the first round of the MACC as they are only ahead of Western and Ball State record wise.

It's a pretty nasty slate, given the way the opponents have been playing lately/first game results.

H A with Miami

H A with Buffalo

A Central

A Akron

A Kent

H Eastern

H BG

By the way, who else thinks the MAC website stinks? Could not easily find a standings page so I gave up and went to ESPN.


Ohio-The State University

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BobcatPride
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  Message Not Read  RE: Abandon ship or circle the wagons? Player's team or Coach's team?
   Posted: 2/5/2019 2:18:21 PM 
The MAC website is terrible.

Maybe the players need to look around the locker room and try to find a solution themselves. Their performances on the court will matter, one way or the other. For those that are staying, and those that may transfer out, they are showing what they are made of for their next coach - whomever and wherever that may be.

The eye in the sky does not lie.
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bigtillyoopsupsideurhead
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  Message Not Read  RE: Abandon ship or circle the wagons? Player's team or Coach's team?
   Posted: 2/5/2019 10:04:37 PM 
Pataskala wrote:
I was watching Minn-Purdue today. Purdue was down by 13 at home in the second half, went on a 21-2 run and won by ten. They did it mostly by playing aggressive -- going to the hoop instead of chucking up threes, and playing in-your-face defense. It was a stark contrast to what Ohio has been doing this year.



I'm not sure what you think you saw, but Purdue is literally 15th in the nation in 3s as % of overall points. They shoot the 22nd most 3s in the nation.

For comparison we are 266th in the nation for 3's attempted.

Our defense has been very good, 72nd in the nation. 2012 is literally the only year we've had a better defensive team since kenpom started tracking tempo-free defense in 2002.

I think it's taking the easy way out to say "we don't play tough defense" or things like that.

At the end of the day basketball is about shooting the ball, and our team is historically inept in that area. That's what it comes down to.
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MonroeClassmate
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  Message Not Read  RE: Abandon ship or circle the wagons? Player's team or Coach's team?
   Posted: 2/10/2019 1:08:31 PM 
bigtillyoopsupsideurhead wrote:
Pataskala wrote:
I was watching Minn-Purdue today. Purdue was down by 13 at home in the second half, went on a 21-2 run and won by ten. They did it mostly by playing aggressive -- going to the hoop instead of chucking up threes, and playing in-your-face defense. It was a stark contrast to what Ohio has been doing this year.



Our defense has been very good, 72nd in the nation. 2012 is literally the only year we've had a better defensive team since kenpom started tracking tempo-free defense in 2002.

I think it's taking the easy way out to say "we don't play tough defense" or things like that.

At the end of the day basketball is about shooting the ball, and our team is historically inept in that area. That's what it comes down to.


I'm with you on these comments.

Though I would go a bit further on defense and just narrow it down to vs MAC opponents to see how OHIO rates. To this point haven't played the offensive power Buffalo yet so that may need to be factored in.

Inept shooting. The CASCADE EFFECT. Just imagine for a moment that Dartis was playing close to senior Nick Kellogg type results. The opponents best defensive player is now on him vs being on TK. TK's turnovers go down and his assists go up because Dartis is sinking 40% vs current guys at 20% on many nights from the three. Because of the needed pressure on Dartis it is now somewhat easier to get the ball into Carter and because of that Taylor is getting some easy stick backs where no real offensive skill is needed. All of this means more slashing by TK and his ability to get offensive rebounds. Who knows, maybe even some of the others start shooting relaxed and making a higher percentage too. Free throw percentage would be higher because Dartis would be the one on the line instead of another.

Look at Kent State two years ago with Hall and Walker. Walker lighting it up from outside because Hall a big force under. Hall gone and Walker not looking as good as he did in the past. OHIO lost it's dynamic duo opportunity for 2018-2019.
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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: Abandon ship or circle the wagons? Player's team or Coach's team?
   Posted: 2/10/2019 3:44:14 PM 
We've discussed this elsewhere, but it's pertinent here, too. Saul just doesn't stick up for his players enough. Yesterday there was a real BS foul called on Block where he wasn't close to touching anybody. It was right in front of the Ohio bench. Saul yelled a bit at the ref, but this was the type of BS call where a coach should go the distance. Take a T to let your players know you're with them. Has he ever been T'ed up in his tenure at Ohio? I don't remember ever seeing it. He's lost his team. One reason is that he really doesn't do much to gain their loyalty.


Actually, the phrase is "Ohio on the Charles."

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Deciduous Forest Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Abandon ship or circle the wagons? Player's team or Coach's team?
   Posted: 2/10/2019 5:53:36 PM 
Pataskala wrote:
We've discussed this elsewhere, but it's pertinent here, too. Saul just doesn't stick up for his players enough. Yesterday there was a real BS foul called on Block where he wasn't close to touching anybody. It was right in front of the Ohio bench. Saul yelled a bit at the ref, but this was the type of BS call where a coach should go the distance. Take a T to let your players know you're with them. Has he ever been T'ed up in his tenure at Ohio? I don't remember ever seeing it. He's lost his team. One reason is that he really doesn't do much to gain their loyalty.


This is garbage. He was on the refs much of the game.
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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: Abandon ship or circle the wagons? Player's team or Coach's team?
   Posted: 2/10/2019 6:41:18 PM 
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:
Pataskala wrote:
We've discussed this elsewhere, but it's pertinent here, too. Saul just doesn't stick up for his players enough. Yesterday there was a real BS foul called on Block where he wasn't close to touching anybody. It was right in front of the Ohio bench. Saul yelled a bit at the ref, but this was the type of BS call where a coach should go the distance. Take a T to let your players know you're with them. Has he ever been T'ed up in his tenure at Ohio? I don't remember ever seeing it. He's lost his team. One reason is that he really doesn't do much to gain their loyalty.


This is garbage. He was on the refs much of the game.


Yelling at the refs and being willing to take a T for your team are two different things. If he's not willing to put it all on the line, why should the players?


Actually, the phrase is "Ohio on the Charles."

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longtiimelurker
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  Message Not Read  RE: Abandon ship or circle the wagons? Player's team or Coach's team?
   Posted: 2/11/2019 9:46:21 AM 
Pataskala wrote:
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:
Pataskala wrote:
We've discussed this elsewhere, but it's pertinent here, too. Saul just doesn't stick up for his players enough. Yesterday there was a real BS foul called on Block where he wasn't close to touching anybody. It was right in front of the Ohio bench. Saul yelled a bit at the ref, but this was the type of BS call where a coach should go the distance. Take a T to let your players know you're with them. Has he ever been T'ed up in his tenure at Ohio? I don't remember ever seeing it. He's lost his team. One reason is that he really doesn't do much to gain their loyalty.


This is garbage. He was on the refs much of the game.


Yelling at the refs and being willing to take a T for your team are two different things. If he's not willing to put it all on the line, why should the players?


That take is still garbage. Never heard a player say "he was willing to take a T" . I have heard them say "Coach was pissed, we knew we better get our as* in gear"
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OUVan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Abandon ship or circle the wagons? Player's team or Coach's team?
   Posted: 2/13/2019 10:41:54 AM 
Obc2 wrote:
to be blunt, i dont see nearly enough athleticism or shooting ability on this roster to be a top quartile MAC team, which is where i expect this program to be. it pains me to admit this...

i like a bunch of the kids as individuals. i would imagine some will transfer after Saul is replaced.





I think the shooters is due to two factors. No PG and the fact that our two best shooters played a total of 7 games this year. We do have a couple of players with seriously ugly outside shots though.


I think the big takeaway from this year for me is Saul's inability to tailor his offense to the players who are available. Injuries have been a constant theme in the last four years but so has the lack of adjustments to the personnel. I disagree with many on the board about our lack of talent. A better coach wins with these kids. Maybe not win big but definitely win a lot more.
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: Abandon ship or circle the wagons? Player's team or Coach's team?
   Posted: 2/13/2019 10:54:33 AM 
OUVan wrote:
Obc2 wrote:
to be blunt, i dont see nearly enough athleticism or shooting ability on this roster to be a top quartile MAC team, which is where i expect this program to be. it pains me to admit this...

i like a bunch of the kids as individuals. i would imagine some will transfer after Saul is replaced.





I think the shooters is due to two factors. No PG and the fact that our two best shooters played a total of 7 games this year. We do have a couple of players with seriously ugly outside shots though.


I think the big takeaway from this year for me is Saul's inability to tailor his offense to the players who are available. Injuries have been a constant theme in the last four years but so has the lack of adjustments to the personnel. I disagree with many on the board about our lack of talent. A better coach wins with these kids. Maybe not win big but definitely win a lot more.


Agreed with you, Van. At some point you have to adjust. He hasn't.



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Deciduous Forest Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Abandon ship or circle the wagons? Player's team or Coach's team?
   Posted: 2/14/2019 9:28:06 AM 
You can't say he's never adjusted. We lose Tony Campbell (preseasion POTY) and he still goes on to finish 2nd in the MAC. That was an excellent coaching job by any measure. I know, seems like eons ago.

Simply put, you can't win without shooters in this day and age. and two really good shooters are out.
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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Abandon ship or circle the wagons? Player's team or Coach's team?
   Posted: 2/14/2019 9:56:25 AM 
Year One of Saul was unwatchable.

Year Two was good, I agree.

The key metric, however, has been recruiting. It has been garbage.

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colobobcat66
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  Message Not Read  RE: Abandon ship or circle the wagons? Player's team or Coach's team?
   Posted: 2/14/2019 10:02:04 AM 
I just watched Saulís press conference after the EMU game. He looked to be in absolute agony. I donít care how you feel about his job here, but you have to feel sorry for him-I donít care how much money heís making- heís hurting. Have a little compassion.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Abandon ship or circle the wagons? Player's team or Coach's team?
   Posted: 2/14/2019 10:05:54 AM 
colobobcat66 wrote:
I just watched Saulís press conference after the EMU game. He looked to be in absolute agony. I donít care how you feel about his job here, but you have to feel sorry for him-I donít care how much money heís making- heís hurting. Have a little compassion.


Agreed! He cares, he loves being the coach of the Bobcats, his coaches do as well and the players all care.
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Abandon ship or circle the wagons? Player's team or Coach's team?
   Posted: 2/14/2019 10:37:10 AM 
colobobcat66 wrote:
I just watched Saulís press conference after the EMU game. He looked to be in absolute agony. I donít care how you feel about his job here, but you have to feel sorry for him-I donít care how much money heís making- heís hurting. Have a little compassion.


This is a good point, well stated. I'll just add that if you a person of faith, a few prayers are in order also.


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection.

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