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Topic:  RE: TK-O-Meter

Topic:  RE: TK-O-Meter
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: TK-O-Meter
   Posted: 1/7/2019 10:39:12 PM 
FearLeon wrote:
GroverBall wrote:
Maddog13 wrote:
Are you sure about that Groverball? I have seen better athletes on the gridiron this year than the floor of the Convo.

Too many on here have their panties all twisted after Saturday and are losing any semblance of rationality.


Ummm....this goes well beyond Saturday. Try five years of nothing.


Yeahhhhhh, five years of nothing seems to be a little inaccurate to me. Unless you're the "NCAA Tourney is all that matters type"...
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Maddog13
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  Message Not Read  RE: TK-O-Meter
   Posted: 1/7/2019 11:03:52 PM 
[/QUOTE]

C'mon Maddog, we're all disappointed, I get it. But to say that this 8-5 Bobcat team would get blown out by throwing a bunch of football players on the court is just stupid and disrespectful for all the work these young men put in to be basketball players. It's not superiority that's talking, it's an understanding of what it takes to play the game of basketball. I've played basketball with some pretty good Bobcat football players over the years and I'm confident that reality is in my corner.
[/QUOTE]

The "Stupid" and "Disrespectful" comments aside and in the spirit of agreeing to disagree, the point that I am making is that there are far better athletes being recruited into the football program than into the basketball program right now. I truly believe that this basketball team has put in the work and is making the most of their God-given talent (including the coaching staff as well), but I just don't see them being able, as a team, to successfully compete in the MAC this year in basketball; whereas, the football team has been able to compete quite well in the MAC in their chosen sport. I truly, truly hope that you are right and I am wrong, because I derive no joy at all watching my beloved Bobcats play at such a disappointingly low level.

Much to my total disbelief, I have watched Ohio actually become a football school, when, in fact, their basketball program was, if not always greatly feared, respected for many, many years. In just a brief amount of time, it appears that the teeth have been totally ripped out of the Bobcats, and that other MAC teams are now free to come into the Convo and beat us down. I truly fear what the likes of Buffalo and Toledo will do to us at home again.
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Buck.Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: TK-O-Meter
   Posted: 1/7/2019 11:57:43 PM 
Maddog13 wrote:


Much to my total disbelief, I have watched Ohio actually become a football school, when, in fact, their basketball program was, if not always greatly feared, respected for many, many years. In just a brief amount of time, it appears that the teeth have been totally ripped out of the Bobcats, and that other MAC teams are now free to come into the Convo and beat us down. I truly fear what the likes of Buffalo and Toledo will do to us at home again.


A third place finish in the MAC east makes OU a football school? I laughed.
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OhioCatFan
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: TK-O-Meter
   Posted: 1/8/2019 12:17:07 AM 
Maddog13, you got to respect GroverBall's BB IQ, that dude has one mean hook shot. ;-) Seriously, I understand what you were trying to say, but I think you were engaging a degree of hyperbole. This was, after all, the first home game that we've lost, and we have played some decent teams at home, including two C-USA teams, Marshall and FIU. This is not to excuse the extremely poor performance against NIU. I've been raking my brain to see if I can remember an Ohio game where we had poorer foul shooting, and I can't actually remember one as bad -- ever. But maybe there was one and I've blotted it out of memory to preserve my sanity. I had a friend, who attends every game, but is somewhat of a mild manner chap, talk to me at some length about this after church on Sunday. He was completely beside himself with our performance at the foul line. He also thought Saul was on a hot seat, and he's not the kind of guy to say these kinds of things normally. So, I can attest to the fact that the natives are restless. The folks on this board are always restless, so we don't really count in the scheme of things, but the "grass roots" fans do. And, we are seeing some agitation at that level. Again, as I said in another thread, I'm still hoping for a turnaround, and I don't think this one game will define the season, but it was a real stinker by any reckoning!


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection.

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Andrew Ruck
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Member Since: 12/22/2004
Location: Columbus, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: TK-O-Meter
   Posted: 1/8/2019 8:35:31 AM 
OU_Country wrote:

All time highest turnovers list. There are plenty of names you'll recognize in the list:
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/leaders/tov-player-s...

By my math, he's definitely on pace to challenge for the top of the list all time in TO's, assuming the other 'leaders' this season don't beat him to it.


Thanks OUC. I don't doubt that most all of those players on that list are pass-heavy guards who had tons of assists to go with those turnovers, and the TOs are more a product of the sheer volume of passes. Our own DJ Cooper being a great example.

What I actually would love to see is the lowest A/To ratio in NCAA history from a guard who played at least X amount of minutes (e.g. 50%). I seriously wonder if his current number is the worst of all time. It seems like that type of list does not exist though.


Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

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Andrew Ruck
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  Message Not Read  RE: TK-O-Meter
   Posted: 1/8/2019 8:37:47 AM 
Maddog13 wrote:
I truly believe that you could take some of Coach Solich's best athletes in Football and that they would totally school these players on the basketball court and without even having to practice for it.


Sorry but this could be the most ridiculous statement I have ever read. It would be one thing if you said "and give the football players a few moths of practice and they would play an even game with them." But you literally suggested you could pick 5 and throw them on the court tonight and they would "totally school them." I mean you have to slow down and reflect on that statement and realize how ridiculous it is, right?


Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

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OU_Country
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Member Since: 12/6/2005
Location: US33 between Athens and the 'Bus, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: TK-O-Meter
   Posted: 1/8/2019 11:42:56 AM 
Andrew Ruck wrote:
OU_Country wrote:

All time highest turnovers list. There are plenty of names you'll recognize in the list:
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/leaders/tov-player-s...

By my math, he's definitely on pace to challenge for the top of the list all time in TO's, assuming the other 'leaders' this season don't beat him to it.


Thanks OUC. I don't doubt that most all of those players on that list are pass-heavy guards who had tons of assists to go with those turnovers, and the TOs are more a product of the sheer volume of passes. Our own DJ Cooper being a great example.

What I actually would love to see is the lowest A/To ratio in NCAA history from a guard who played at least X amount of minutes (e.g. 50%). I seriously wonder if his current number is the worst of all time. It seems like that type of list does not exist though.


I dug through sports-reference a little, but didn't see the A/To ratio you're looking for. For comparison though, go into the list and look at those who are high up on the list, and you'll see close to at least 1:1 ratio or better.
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colobobcat66
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Location: Watching the bobcats run outside my window., CO
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  Message Not Read  RE: TK-O-Meter
   Posted: 1/8/2019 1:38:28 PM 
Andrew Ruck wrote:
Maddog13 wrote:
I truly believe that you could take some of Coach Solich's best athletes in Football and that they would totally school these players on the basketball court and without even having to practice for it.


Sorry but this could be the most ridiculous statement I have ever read. It would be one thing if you said "and give the football players a few moths of practice and they would play an even game with them." But you literally suggested you could pick 5 and throw them on the court tonight and they would "totally school them." I mean you have to slow down and reflect on that statement and realize how ridiculous it is, right?


One question for the folks that say itís ridiculous and I have no idea what the answer is, but Iím just wondering how many of the football players being discussed actually played high school basketball at a fairly high level? There were some in the past like Darrius Vick who I remember being a pretty good high school B.B. player. ( first team all state his senior year I find).

Last Edited: 1/8/2019 1:44:45 PM by colobobcat66

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FearLeon
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  Message Not Read  RE: TK-O-Meter
   Posted: 1/8/2019 2:13:04 PM 
OU_Country wrote:
FearLeon wrote:
GroverBall wrote:
Maddog13 wrote:
Are you sure about that Groverball? I have seen better athletes on the gridiron this year than the floor of the Convo.

Too many on here have their panties all twisted after Saturday and are losing any semblance of rationality.


Ummm....this goes well beyond Saturday. Try five years of nothing.


Yeahhhhhh, five years of nothing seems to be a little inaccurate to me. Unless you're the "NCAA Tourney is all that matters type"...


If you don't think the Saul years have been five years of nothing...then I'm not really sure what program you've been watching all this time. From recruiting to results...it's been an epic failure across the board.


#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: TK-O-Meter
   Posted: 1/8/2019 2:44:33 PM 
FearLeon wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
FearLeon wrote:
GroverBall wrote:
Maddog13 wrote:
Are you sure about that Groverball? I have seen better athletes on the gridiron this year than the floor of the Convo.

Too many on here have their panties all twisted after Saturday and are losing any semblance of rationality.


Ummm....this goes well beyond Saturday. Try five years of nothing.


Yeahhhhhh, five years of nothing seems to be a little inaccurate to me. Unless you're the "NCAA Tourney is all that matters type"...


If you don't think the Saul years have been five years of nothing...then I'm not really sure what program you've been watching all this time. From recruiting to results...it's been an epic failure across the board.


Years two and three were fine, a lot of fun, and very much like the norm of Ohio Basketball since 1995. That you are unable to enjoy anything besides March success is simply a you problem. Now, if we're talking about the last two years, and the first year, yeah, in general they have been train wrecks - Especially year one, and this year.

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Andrew Ruck
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  Message Not Read  RE: TK-O-Meter
   Posted: 1/8/2019 3:03:19 PM 
OU_Country wrote:
That you are unable to enjoy anything besides March success is simply a you problem.


Quoted for emphasis.


Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: TK-O-Meter
   Posted: 1/8/2019 3:35:44 PM 
Andrew Ruck wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
That you are unable to enjoy anything besides March success is simply a you problem.


Quoted for emphasis.


+1
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Andrew Ruck
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  Message Not Read  RE: TK-O-Meter
   Posted: 1/16/2019 11:08:27 AM 
Well unfortunately after the last 3 games TK's numbers have ticked worse:

TOTAL - 40 A, 83 TO, 0.48 A/TO
Games w/ more assists than TO - 2

This means that if Kirk has a game where he has twice as many turnovers as assists, his ratio actually IMPROVES. The 1 player in the nation with more turnovers...has 161 assists to go with it, 4 times that of TK.

I honestly was shocked to see he was credited with 2 assists last night...I am not sure when those were.


Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: TK-O-Meter
   Posted: 1/16/2019 11:20:50 AM 
Andrew Ruck wrote:
Well unfortunately after the last 3 games TK's numbers have ticked worse:

TOTAL - 40 A, 83 TO, 0.48 A/TO
Games w/ more assists than TO - 2

This means that if Kirk has a game where he has twice as many turnovers as assists, his ratio actually IMPROVES. The 1 player in the nation with more turnovers...has 161 assists to go with it, 4 times that of TK.

I honestly was shocked to see he was credited with 2 assists last night...I am not sure when those were.


Curious if they credited his lane violation as a turnover? I assume they would.
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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: TK-O-Meter
   Posted: 1/16/2019 11:32:36 AM 
I almost fell out of my seat last night when Marty Bannister stated that TK had put up 90 shots in Ohio's last 4 games. I thought that stat couldn't be accurate but I'm afraid it is.
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FearLeon
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  Message Not Read  RE: TK-O-Meter
   Posted: 1/16/2019 11:57:22 AM 
bobcatsquared wrote:
I almost fell out of my seat last night when Marty Bannister stated that TK had put up 90 shots in Ohio's last 4 games. I thought that stat couldn't be accurate but I'm afraid it is.


Same here...actually 92 shots. Scary stuff Bobcatsquared for anyone to take this number of shots not named James Harden, LeBron, Steph Curry or Kevin Durant.

Last Edited: 1/16/2019 11:59:16 AM by FearLeon


#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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Andrew Ruck
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  Message Not Read  RE: TK-O-Meter
   Posted: 1/16/2019 12:18:08 PM 
bobcatsquared wrote:
I almost fell out of my seat last night when Marty Bannister stated that TK had put up 90 shots in Ohio's last 4 games. I thought that stat couldn't be accurate but I'm afraid it is.


More than each of Doug Taylor, Gavin Block & Jason Preston have attempted all season.


Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: TK-O-Meter
   Posted: 1/16/2019 12:42:05 PM 
He also has a 33% usage rate, highest on the team for regular players, which is also near the top of the country.

So what does that tell us coupled with the mind-boggling stats of TOs and shots attempted?

I'll let you guys figure that out...

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/ohio/2019.html

His win shares per 40 minutes is 11th on the team (8th out of the regular rotation). That is unreal for a starter who plays as much as he does.

------

And I would just like to reiterate that none of us here, at least I think none of us, are banging on TK for being a bad player. He's absolutely not. But the staff has put him in a position where he's not excelling. He could absolutely work on his game and get better, but at this point it's like a square peg in a round hole.

Last Edited: 1/16/2019 12:47:50 PM by GoCats105



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Gman
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  Message Not Read  RE: TK-O-Meter
   Posted: 1/16/2019 3:26:22 PM 
Right here is what BURNS MY ASS !!!! a bunch of grown ass men throwing a young man under the bus and singling him out and making fun of him, you all and the Administrator's of this board should be ashamed of yourselves for even posting this bunch of bullshit and making comments about it. TK is here to play basketball and get a DEGREE, Basketball is a TEAM sport not 1 a person game, but wow to bash a kid on Ohio's main message board really sends a good message to the parents that their kids may be looking to come to Ohio to play sports. NOT !!!!
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Brian Smith
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  Message Not Read  RE: TK-O-Meter
   Posted: 1/16/2019 3:30:38 PM 
Posting someone's statistics is not throwing someone under a bus.


Been kicking up sparks/we set the flames free/The windows are locked now so what'll it be?/A house on fire or a rising sea?

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FearLeon
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  Message Not Read  RE: TK-O-Meter
   Posted: 1/16/2019 3:46:44 PM 
Gman wrote:
Right here is what BURNS MY ASS !!!! a bunch of grown ass men throwing a young man under the bus and singling him out and making fun of him, you all and the Administrator's of this board should be ashamed of yourselves for even posting this bunch of bullshit and making comments about it. TK is here to play basketball and get a DEGREE, Basketball is a TEAM sport not 1 a person game, but wow to bash a kid on Ohio's main message board really sends a good message to the parents that their kids may be looking to come to Ohio to play sports. NOT !!!!



Wow...lighten up Francis. We were being kind and I could have mentioned his free throw % but didn't. Seriously, if you think throwing out numbers is bashing a kid then you need to walk away from the computer and play a round of golf. Did you yell at Marty last night when he pointed out during the broadcast that TK has let it fly 92 times in his last four games???


#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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Gman
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  Message Not Read  RE: TK-O-Meter
   Posted: 1/16/2019 3:50:20 PM 
Brian Smith wrote:
Posting someone's statistics is not throwing someone under a bus.


So embarrassing him in front of the whole world is ok ? like I said, nice message you all are sending to other recruits and their families, by posting negative things about young men that chose Ohio.
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FearLeon
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  Message Not Read  RE: TK-O-Meter
   Posted: 1/16/2019 3:53:03 PM 
Gman wrote:
Brian Smith wrote:
Posting someone's statistics is not throwing someone under a bus.


So embarrassing him in front of the whole world is ok ? like I said, nice message you all are sending to other recruits and their families, by posting negative things about young men that chose Ohio.


Dude....TK shot 4-22 from the field against Kent State. He's got other things to focus on. The last thing he's concerned with or his family is reading about his statistics on an Ohio Basketball message board.

Last Edited: 1/16/2019 3:53:17 PM by FearLeon


#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: TK-O-Meter
   Posted: 1/16/2019 3:54:34 PM 
I agree this thread is inappropriate. The kid is playing his ass off. Seems like a committed, articulate young man and good teammate. Just struggling in a few (key) respects. Not his fault we recruited him for the wrong position.



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Gman
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  Message Not Read  RE: TK-O-Meter
   Posted: 1/16/2019 3:55:50 PM 
FearLeon wrote:
Gman wrote:
Right here is what BURNS MY ASS !!!! a bunch of grown ass men throwing a young man under the bus and singling him out and making fun of him, you all and the Administrator's of this board should be ashamed of yourselves for even posting this bunch of bullshit and making comments about it. TK is here to play basketball and get a DEGREE, Basketball is a TEAM sport not 1 a person game, but wow to bash a kid on Ohio's main message board really sends a good message to the parents that their kids may be looking to come to Ohio to play sports. NOT !!!!



Wow...lighten up Francis. We were being kind and I could have mentioned his free throw % but didn't. Seriously, if you think throwing out numbers is bashing a kid then you need to walk away from the computer and play a round of golf. Did you yell at Marty last night when he pointed out during the broadcast that TK has let it fly 92 times in his last four games???


FearLena, The season is a BUST I know it, you know it, Saul is HISTORY !!! but HOLY SHIT you don't go embarrassing players on social media and calling them out, what kind of message does that send to future recruits ? A scary one !!!

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