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Topic: RE: John Groce

Topic: RE: John Groce

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Recovering Journalist
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Member Since: 8/17/2010
Location: Cleveland, OH
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RE: John Groce

Posted: 2/3/2017 9:41:38 AM

allen wrote:

The mediocre lobby is very tough,but thank God there are fans who want to win.Trying to stone me for wanting a coach that took us to the sweet sixteen is crazy.

They must really love mediocrity in Illinois. Fifth season in and your hero has won ONE Tourney game and made one Tourney appearance, in his first year, with essentially none of his own players. They pay a lot more, have much higher expectations and somehow they managed not to fire him in the middle of his third year.

I really hope you're just messing with us, because if you're serious, you are utterly delusional.

allen
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RE: John Groce

Posted: 2/3/2017 9:53:49 AM

Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:

I will say this, it takes 5-6 years to find your groove at a school. Usually your first recruiting classes are cobbled together by shoestrings and a prayer. But the next couple years is when we can pass judgement onto Saul, especially once we find out his caliber of player.

That said, Saul has done some great work in-state, as I have said before when we have kids from all over the state and from some very good programs in Ohio. Unlike Solich, Saul's staff realizes this importance and time can be given to him. Adjusting for your starting center going down in your third year, is never an easy thing to adjust to for a coach. That said, next year is going to tell me a lot about where this is going in terms of our program.

Saul has done a pretty good job of getting under the radar players, it's not everyday you end up with the D-2 player of the year in Ohio (Carter) along with a 1st team D1 all-state in Ohio (Dartis). So give him a bit more time to get in his element and we'll see what happens.

Respect

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

Bobcat1996
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RE: John Groce

Posted: 2/3/2017 11:21:48 AM

The last time I checked this season still has a month to go. As another poster mentioned, give Saul a chance. This team could get hot for three games in early March and win the league tournament. The MAC isn't getting two teams in the NCAA tourney anyway. Only one coach since the early 1990's has won the MAC regular season and that man is now at Western Carolina. The Bobcats did tie for the MAC regular season title a few years ago, but ended up #2 seed to Akron since the Zips beat them twice.

Andrew Ruck
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Location: Columbus, OH
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RE: John Groce

Posted: 2/3/2017 11:25:04 AM

Allen, you refuse to address what everyone keeps bringing up. At this point in their careers, Saul Phillips has had more success than John Groce did.

Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

OUVan
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RE: John Groce

Posted: 2/3/2017 11:26:16 AM

Bobcat1996 wrote:

Only one coach since the early 1990's has won the MAC regular season and that man is now at Western Carolina.

Actually, it's been two and the other is in Chestnut Hill, Mass.

bshot44
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RE: John Groce

Posted: 2/3/2017 11:44:41 AM

allen wrote:

Who is the better coach? Groce is rated 75, Saul is 129. You guys live in a mediocre fantasy world, lets ride this thing out and see where it goes. Saul has brought in some decent players, but they have not progressed. I hope we win the MAC this year.

I think there is one (or a million) major flaw(s) in your thought process.

What makes you think Groce can win with this group of players?

Groce built his teams on tough-nosed defense and had one of the all-time best PGs in MAC history in DJ Cooper.

Jaaron Simmons is good...but he's not Cooper.

And if this team struggles to play defense in key moments as much as they do....what makes you think they'll play any better defense under Groce?

Some of these guys just can't play defense. It's not necessarily coaching...it's just will/toughness/ability. KK just doesn't have it in him to play good defense. It just isn't going to happen. Same with some of these other guys.

They don't have a Rico Johnson...or a Walt Offutt...or a Jon Smith on the backend.

They just don't.

This team will go as far as their shooting takes them.

3 nights in Cleveland with them tickling the twine....and they go to the NCAA tourney.

If they have an off night....they'll go home.

Pretty simple to see with this team. There's no middle ground.

allen
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RE: John Groce

Posted: 2/3/2017 12:38:30 PM

Groce is a better recruiter, he never had the MAC player of the year, but he had good players and one great one in DJ Cooper. They also did not melt down at the end of games. Let's roll with Saul and see where it goes. I have seen Graves play, he is better than the PG we have coming in. That being said, I like what I see from Butler. I agree, he would need a few schollies to get the team together. Their problem is not defense, it is scoring down the stretch. The last lost could be attributed to defense, but the other 6 can be attributed to a lack of closing out an opponent. The team has no killer instinct.

Last Edited: 2/3/2017 5:39:52 PM by allen

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

OU_Country
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RE: John Groce

Posted: 2/3/2017 12:46:43 PM

OUVan wrote:

Bobcat1996 wrote:

Only one coach since the early 1990's has won the MAC regular season and that man is now at Western Carolina.

Actually, it's been two and the other is in Chestnut Hill, Mass.

How could we forget about that?

OhioStunter
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Member Since: 2/18/2005
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RE: John Groce

Posted: 2/3/2017 1:10:52 PM

allen wrote:

Groce is a better recruiter, he never had the MAC player of the year...

http://woub.org/2013/03/13/ohios-dj-cooper-wins-mac-playe... /

bigtillyoopsupsideurhead
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Location: Cincinnati
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RE: John Groce

Posted: 2/3/2017 1:40:40 PM

allen wrote:

They also did not melt down at the end of games.

Go look up our game at Ball State in 2010. And you must have slept through the entire 2011 season. Even in our magic 2012 season we lost back to back road games to teams ranked outside the KenPom top 200 in Feb.

Bottom line is that Groce's teams were pretty mediocre until March hit and everything clicked. Will that happen this year? Without Campbell probably not, but it's silly to say we never went through things like this under Groce.

OUVan
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RE: John Groce

Posted: 2/3/2017 2:03:47 PM

allen wrote:

They also did not melt down at the end of games.

I love revisionist history. The games below are just from year 3 of John Groce.

Marshall - Game tied 55-55 with 3:35 to go. Marshall outscores Bobcats 10-2 the rest of the way.

IUPUI - Bobcats lead with 4 minutes to go. Outscored 19-7 the rest of the way.

Robert Morris - Bobcats lead by double digits several times. RM uses a 32 to 14 run late in the second half to take the lead. Bobcats hold a 2 point advantage with 30 seconds left. Lose in OT.

Kent State - Bobcats lead by 3 with less than 2 minutes to play. With 30 seconds left they still lead and have the ball. Lose by 3 in regulation.

Miami - Bobcats up 8 at half. Get outscored by 20 in the second half

Bowling Green - Bobcats up 8 at half. Get outscored by 16 in the second half.

Ball State - Bobcats up 8 at half. Stretch lead to 11 with 8 minutes to go. Outscored 18-7 the rest of the half. Lead by 3 with 30 seconds to go in OT with the ball and lose by 1.

Kent State - Bobcats lead by 5 with 7 minute to go. Outscored 20-8 the rest of the way.

Buffalo - Bobcats lead by 10 with 7 minutes to go. Outscored 19-6 the rest of the way.

Tell me again how great we were late in games under John Groce?

OU_Country
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RE: John Groce

Posted: 2/3/2017 2:42:49 PM

OUVan wrote:

allen wrote:

They also did not melt down at the end of games.

I love revisionist history. The games below are just from year 3 of John Groce.

Apparently allen also does, along with Meigs County Gold.

OUVan
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RE: John Groce

Posted: 2/3/2017 2:51:31 PM

OU_Country wrote:

OUVan wrote:

allen wrote:

They also did not melt down at the end of games.

I love revisionist history. The games below are just from year 3 of John Groce.

Apparently allen also does, along with Meigs County Gold.

I should add that none of my comments are an attempt to tear down Groce. I'm a huge fan and think he did an amazing job here.

bshot44
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RE: John Groce

Posted: 2/3/2017 2:53:32 PM

OUVan wrote:

OU_Country wrote:

OUVan wrote:

allen wrote:

They also did not melt down at the end of games.

I love revisionist history. The games below are just from year 3 of John Groce.

Apparently allen also does, along with Meigs County Gold.

I should add that none of my comments are an attempt to tear down Groce. I'm a huge fan and think he did an amazing job here.

Totally agree. While he was here only a short time, he goes down as one of the best coaches in Ohio history to me.

But yes...there were certainly a TON of head scratchers during his tenure.

Difference (so far) between him and Saul ... Groce got 3 NCAA Tourney wins which helps us forgive/forget some of the lesser moments.

Currently, Saul has nothing for us to hang our hats on.

A win at Georgia Tech isn't much.

OU_Country
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RE: John Groce

Posted: 2/3/2017 2:54:26 PM

OUVan wrote:

I should add that none of my comments are an attempt to tear down Groce. I'm a huge fan and think he did an amazing job here.

+1. As a fan, I was crushed when he left. But in no way would I expect him to return, and no way I want Saul out. As long as he doesn't end up at a MAC Rival, I'll actively root for John's team wherever he goes.

OU_Country
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RE: John Groce

Posted: 2/3/2017 2:57:04 PM

bshot44 wrote:

Difference (so far) between him and Saul ... Groce got 3 NCAA Tourney wins which helps us forgive/forget some of the lesser moments.

And those can (in my opinion) be attributed to the ability to bring two players to Athens: Cooper & Basset.

Bobcat1996
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RE: John Groce

Posted: 2/3/2017 3:01:29 PM

OUVan- I should have said only one coach has won the MAC regular season outright since the early 1990's as that was Hunter. The guy coaching in Boston now was the #2 seed in the conference tourney as he did tie Akron for the top spot, but lost to the Zips twice in the regular season to end up as the two seed. The season all boils down to if a MAC team can get hot for three games in Cleveland. Unlike the ACC, Big Ten, Big 12, Big East and others the regular season winner doesn't get much of a reward in the MAC.

allen
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RE: John Groce

Posted: 2/3/2017 4:19:20 PM

OUVan wrote:

allen wrote:

They also did not melt down at the end of games.

7 in three years, we have 7 this year lol. Hopefully, we go to the tournament soon

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

bshot44
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RE: John Groce

Posted: 2/3/2017 4:40:07 PM

allen wrote:

OUVan wrote:

allen wrote:

They also did not melt down at the end of games.

7 in three years, we have 7 this year lol. Hopefully, we go to the tournament soon

Re-read that. That's 7 IN YEAR THREE.

Not 7 in 3 years.

allen
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RE: John Groce

Posted: 2/3/2017 5:44:25 PM

We will see what happens. Groce produced when it counted.

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

bigtillyoopsupsideurhead
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RE: John Groce

Posted: 2/3/2017 5:48:40 PM

OU_Country wrote:

OUVan wrote:

I should add that none of my comments are an attempt to tear down Groce. I'm a huge fan and think he did an amazing job here.

Even if Illinois gets rid of him, I think he can land better than a MAC school. I think a great fit would be Dayton, but that's assuming that Archie finally moves up. Maybe NC State or Ohio State open up for Archie.

cc-cat
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RE: John Groce

Posted: 2/3/2017 6:26:20 PM

It seems that For some Groce is like an old girlfriend. You only remember the great times, not the times she was a bitch.

I may be at the other extreme on this subject. Groce did average during the season and great in post season. He parlayed that success for a great gig in Illinois. He took us to the Sweet 16 and then left us. Divorced us. And in the process ripped the heart out of a team positioned to possibly another run (we have no idea - runs by teams like Ohio are often fueled by match-ups). I don't blame him for leaving at all. Most everyone else would have done the same thing. His time at Illinois, for a number of reasons, has been pretty much a disaster. His regular season record and performance has been very similar to his stay at Ohio - no post season run to speak of.

Right or wrong, he should/will be fired at the end of the year.

If he has the audacity to call up Schaus our AD should say, "how you doing, whatever reference and connections I can provide." But NOT bring him back. He left us. In doing so he lost the privilege of coming back when it suits him. Additionally, if Schaus has the lack of scruples to call up Groce and look to bring him back - he's an idiot and a prostitute.

I have no control if Groce wants to come back. I have no control if Schaus fires Saul to bring Groce back. I can only control my actions. If Saul is fired at the end of this year and Groce is brought in...I am through with Ohio sports. You can come back to this thread and call me on it. But I won't be here.

I'm also 100% confident that Schaus is not an idiot, not a prostitute, and will not even entertain the thought of firing Saul to bring back Groce.

Last Edited: 2/3/2017 6:26:49 PM by cc-cat

OhioStunter
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RE: John Groce

Posted: 2/3/2017 6:46:43 PM

Oddly, he and Thad Matta may face off against each other as candidates at other schools. Both of their teams are 3-7 in the Big Ten.

bshot44
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RE: John Groce

Posted: 2/3/2017 9:35:21 PM

cc-cat wrote:

Plus Ohio doesn't have money to buyout Saul. No chance that would happen

BillyTheCat
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RE: John Groce

Posted: 2/3/2017 10:15:53 PM

OU_Country wrote:

OUVan wrote:

allen wrote:

They also did not melt down at the end of games.

I love revisionist history. The games below are just from year 3 of John Groce.

Apparently allen also does, along with Meigs County Gold.

Either that or Kelly Ann makes post on BA.

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