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Topic: RE: Official Game 16 Thread: Akron

Topic: RE: Official Game 16 Thread: Akron

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perimeterpost
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Member Since: 7/6/2010
Post Count: 3,165

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RE: Official Game 16 Thread: Akron

Posted: 1/18/2017 1:57:38 AM

sick and tired of playing Kron close for 25-30 minutes then fading away. Since beating them in the MACC we are just 2-9 and every year its been the same story. With JC we had the lead at half time more often than not before fading away in the second half. We've regressed under SP and now typically have a small half time deficit before fading away in the second half. Campbell or no Campbell when Akron come to Athens we need to play them hard for 40 full minutes.

2012-'13: (0-3)
3 losses-
1st halves: Ohio +8pts.
2nd halves: Ohio -49pts.

2013-'14: (1-2)
2 losses-
1st halves: Ohio +4pts.
2nd halves: Ohio -13pts.
1 win-
1st half: Ohio +16pts.
2nd half: Ohio +/- 0pts.

2014-'15: (1-1)
1 loss-
1st half: Ohio -4pts.
2nd half: Ohio -8pts.
1 win-
1st half: Ohio -10pts.
2nd half: Ohio +11pts.

2015-'16: (0-2)
1st halves: Ohio -12pts.
2nd halves: Ohio -15pts.

2016-'17: (0-1)
1st half: Ohio -3pts.
2nd half: Ohio -12pts.

Last Edited: 1/18/2017 1:58:42 AM by perimeterpost

MY STATE. MY TEAM.

SBH
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
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RE: Official Game 16 Thread: Akron

Posted: 1/18/2017 6:37:06 AM

Chicken George wrote:

Not being overly emotional as I've thought this all year and while I haven't posted much, when I do I've hinted at this when I do comment. Tonight was a vivid illustration of Athleticism vs. Saul Ball. If you don't feel it was "athletic" because I. Johnson is a tank, then it's Physical vs. Finesse. When Finesse is hot, you'll have fun, but otherwise you're going to get punched in the gut, especially by the likes of Akron. What scares me is that I look at the recruiting board and see more guys that like look like Block & Carter and fewer guys that look like they can run and bang with Akron types.
Russ commented often as I listened on the radio the first half that they always seem to find these really athletic hybrid/long/inside-out type guys all the time and the TV announcers when I got home for the 2H did as well. If it wasn't obvious in the past, it was vs. EMU and it was tonight. Tony certainly would've helped, but Tony is not your prototypical physical 5 that can make up for the rest of the roster.

Also during the EMU and again tonight, seeing Carter & Kamminski totally overmatched in the post, I commend Saul for sticking to a straight up man-to-man and watching them get run over. No variety, nothing to mix it up, just watch it happen.
Every coach and team has to have a personality and I respect Saul-Ball. If it's all clicking in March, it'll be a blast and I'll celebrate with everyone. But I certainly do hope we recruit a few guys that can go to the hole and score in a manner other than jumpers. The last 5 minutes of the EMU game and the 2H tonight are two vivid illustrations of what life's like when athletic/physical look like when you're only option is finesse/outside shooting and the shots aren't falling.

Great assessment. Get used to more of the same when we match up against EMU and Akron - perhaps even Kent - during the second half of the season.

allen
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RE: Official Game 16 Thread: Akron

Posted: 1/18/2017 7:33:45 AM

I don't think anybody is saying we want black players, we want athletes. I believe we have talent, the players need to be coached up. Taylor needs to get blocks and boards. Tone needs to get buckets down low. The guards need to be able to drive and hit midrange shots.

Last Edited: 1/18/2017 11:08:11 AM by allen

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

Recovering Journalist
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Location: Cleveland, OH
Post Count: 1,839

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RE: Official Game 16 Thread: Akron

Posted: 1/18/2017 8:02:06 AM

Akron illustrated why some of us get frustrated watching five Bobcats camp out on the three-point line and toss the ball until an open shot comes available or the shot clock runs out. They played an actual inside-out game, let the double teams come, and either took a close shot in the paint, passed in the paint, or hit an open man for a wide open three. I can't remember the last time I saw that kind of offensive basketball 101 by our team this year. Our entire offense is taking contested shots off drives or shooting threes. That's it, and that's not going to win the day in Cleveland.

GoCats105
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Member Since: 1/31/2006
Location: Seattle, WA
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RE: Official Game 16 Thread: Akron

Posted: 1/18/2017 8:12:32 AM

I don't like to criticize what Saul's plan is because I think he knows what he's doing, but sometimes I wonder why the defense doesn't get changed up a bit. Switch to a zone, clog up the middle and make Akron at least have to "think" about what they're doing. Don't just play into their hands. I know some coaches are strictly man-to-man guys, but sometimes you have to play to your strengths too.

And I also wouldn't mind seeing a little 3/4 court pressure when Culver and Laster are in the game. Akron doesn't have elite ball handlers. Get up in their grill and force a couple TOs.

Not really upset by the loss, you could see it coming. But just a little frustrating to watch. The offensive side of the floor again wasn't up to it's normal standard.

Andrew Ruck
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Member Since: 12/22/2004
Location: Columbus, OH
Post Count: 4,700

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RE: Official Game 16 Thread: Akron

Posted: 1/18/2017 8:52:21 AM

I made it to the game last night, which embarrassingly was my first trip to the JAR. The gym & atmosphere are meh, most all cheering is driven by the cheerleaders. The gym is kind of cool but also lacking.

There was a 12ish year old boy sitting in front of me that would look over his shoulder at me to see my reaction every single time Akron scored. Every...single...time. Not trash talking or saying anything, just looking. I am not sure why, as I was pretty much completely quiet and still the whole game. I never wanted to curse out a child more, and that's saying something because I have 3 kids and coach baseball.

I do understand the points about athleticism, but I think a lot of that is smoke and mirrors...just because a player looks more fluid and smooth in his motion doesn't necessarily make him more effective.

I'm not a Doug hater, but he had an awful game. Made some dumb fouls, got backed down in the paint repeatedly, didn't get great positioning on the boards and just didn't have a great touch around the basket. Jason had some great moments but his night was mostly frustrating (5 fouls in 17 mins, about 2 of which were actually fouls). In that sense, having regular Tony over these 2 tonight would have been a MASSIVE difference. But then again, there's no guarantee Tony would've done well either.

Kenny & Jordy struggled to find decent shots. Our offense was centered around attacking the basket with reckless abandon. Early on it resulted in some really embarrassing looking "shots." Eventually Simmons was able to start converting on it, but given how quickly it seemed we attacked the basket you would hope for more than just 68 points (and just 7 free throws).

I'm no expert but it sure seems to me that Isaiah Johnson got away with lots of foot shuffling and extensive steps. The guys seemed frustrating all night with the calls.

I thought during EMU and Akron both, that I would love to see an advanced metric on the quality of makes & misses. What percent of makes are nothing but net, clank right down or rattle around. Same for misses - What percent don't miss by much and rim out, rattle around and off, air balls, etc. I know there would be a lot of gray areas but it could be very insightful particular in team stats by game. I think both these last 2 losses would show Ohio with a lot of "near misses" and our opponents with a lot of "fortunate makes." Maybe it's just me being biased and feeling like we aren't getting the bounces, I don't know, that's why I'd like a stat on it.

Akron looked good last night, super-human during the 9 minute stretch in which they outscored us 26-6 and looked like the Globetrotters just having fun out there for a bit. But they did not strike me as extra special, just normal good Akron. We need some development and a healthy Tony but we can beat them.

Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

allen
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Member Since: 1/24/2006
Post Count: 4,630

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RE: Official Game 16 Thread: Akron

Posted: 1/18/2017 11:03:08 AM

Andrew Ruck wrote:

I made it to the game last night, which embarrassingly was my first trip to the JAR. The gym & atmosphere are meh, most all cheering is driven by the cheerleaders. The gym is kind of cool but also lacking.

There was a 12ish year old boy sitting in front of me that would look over his shoulder at me to see my reaction every single time Akron scored. Every...single...time. Not trash talking or saying anything, just looking. I am not sure why, as I was pretty much completely quiet and still the whole game. I never wanted to curse out a child more, and that's saying something because I have 3 kids and coach baseball.

I do understand the points about athleticism, but I think a lot of that is smoke and mirrors...just because a player looks more fluid and smooth in his motion doesn't necessarily make him more effective.

I'm not a Doug hater, but he had an awful game. Made some dumb fouls, got backed down in the paint repeatedly, didn't get great positioning on the boards and just didn't have a great touch around the basket. Jason had some great moments but his night was mostly frustrating (5 fouls in 17 mins, about 2 of which were actually fouls). In that sense, having regular Tony over these 2 tonight would have been a MASSIVE difference. But then again, there's no guarantee Tony would've done well either.

Kenny & Jordy struggled to find decent shots. Our offense was centered around attacking the basket with reckless abandon. Early on it resulted in some really embarrassing looking "shots." Eventually Simmons was able to start converting on it, but given how quickly it seemed we attacked the basket you would hope for more than just 68 points (and just 7 free throws).

I'm no expert but it sure seems to me that Isaiah Johnson got away with lots of foot shuffling and extensive steps. The guys seemed frustrating all night with the calls.

I thought during EMU and Akron both, that I would love to see an advanced metric on the quality of makes & misses. What percent of makes are nothing but net, clank right down or rattle around. Same for misses - What percent don't miss by much and rim out, rattle around and off, air balls, etc. I know there would be a lot of gray areas but it could be very insightful particular in team stats by game. I think both these last 2 losses would show Ohio with a lot of "near misses" and our opponents with a lot of "fortunate makes." Maybe it's just me being biased and feeling like we aren't getting the bounces, I don't know, that's why I'd like a stat on it.

Akron looked good last night, super-human during the 9 minute stretch in which they outscored us 26-6 and looked like the Globetrotters just having fun out there for a bit. But they did not strike me as extra special, just normal good Akron. We need some development and a healthy Tony but we can beat them.

it's creating a moral victory, a way to say we could have been the better team had we played our game. Taking the loss with the chin up. Let's not build morals with conference opponents.

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

Bobcat1998
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Member Since: 11/7/2012
Post Count: 2,236

Status: Offline

RE: Official Game 16 Thread: Akron

Posted: 1/18/2017 11:04:45 AM

Andrew Ruck wrote:

I made it to the game last night, which embarrassingly was my first trip to the JAR. The gym & atmosphere are meh, most all cheering is driven by the cheerleaders. The gym is kind of cool but also lacking.

There was a 12ish year old boy sitting in front of me that would look over his shoulder at me to see my reaction every single time Akron scored. Every...single...time. Not trash talking or saying anything, just looking. I am not sure why, as I was pretty much completely quiet and still the whole game. I never wanted to curse out a child more, and that's saying something because I have 3 kids and coach baseball.

I do understand the points about athleticism, but I think a lot of that is smoke and mirrors...just because a player looks more fluid and smooth in his motion doesn't necessarily make him more effective.

I'm not a Doug hater, but he had an awful game. Made some dumb fouls, got backed down in the paint repeatedly, didn't get great positioning on the boards and just didn't have a great touch around the basket. Jason had some great moments but his night was mostly frustrating (5 fouls in 17 mins, about 2 of which were actually fouls). In that sense, having regular Tony over these 2 tonight would have been a MASSIVE difference. But then again, there's no guarantee Tony would've done well either.

Kenny & Jordy struggled to find decent shots. Our offense was centered around attacking the basket with reckless abandon. Early on it resulted in some really embarrassing looking "shots." Eventually Simmons was able to start converting on it, but given how quickly it seemed we attacked the basket you would hope for more than just 68 points (and just 7 free throws).

I'm no expert but it sure seems to me that Isaiah Johnson got away with lots of foot shuffling and extensive steps. The guys seemed frustrating all night with the calls.

I thought during EMU and Akron both, that I would love to see an advanced metric on the quality of makes & misses. What percent of makes are nothing but net, clank right down or rattle around. Same for misses - What percent don't miss by much and rim out, rattle around and off, air balls, etc. I know there would be a lot of gray areas but it could be very insightful particular in team stats by game. I think both these last 2 losses would show Ohio with a lot of "near misses" and our opponents with a lot of "fortunate makes." Maybe it's just me being biased and feeling like we aren't getting the bounces, I don't know, that's why I'd like a stat on it.

Akron looked good last night, super-human during the 9 minute stretch in which they outscored us 26-6 and looked like the Globetrotters just having fun out there for a bit. But they did not strike me as extra special, just normal good Akron. We need some development and a healthy Tony but we can beat them.

I agree with all of this. To sum up my feelings I feel kind of like "blah" right now. I don't see a killer instinct and I don't see the guys having any fun. Culver actually is regressing and doesn't seem to fit in anywhere. Laster has passed him up clearly. Carter has clearly passed up DT. I thought Doug would bring some pain in the post last night but looked soft. The announcers mentioned that Kenny had ZERO rebounds the two previous games. If I were Saul I would force him into the post when the ball is reversed away from him. He actually shoots fairly well when he posts up or drives. Jaaron was on last night but for some reason if he's on, no one else is. I just want to see them having fun like the Nick-Jon-Rico-TJ-Wilkins team from a few years ago who was successful and fun to watch.

bobcatsquared
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
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RE: Official Game 16 Thread: Akron

Posted: 1/18/2017 12:06:33 PM

Andrew Ruck wrote:

I do understand the points about athleticism, but I think a lot of that is smoke and mirrors...just because a player looks more fluid and smooth in his motion doesn't necessarily make him more effective.

You can be less athletic and effective at the same time.

Case in point will be on display tonight when ND plays at FSU. ND, w/o the typical 4- and 5-star athletes that most ACC teams have, still plays and beats these opponents by playing an unselfish, team-oriented game. Watching the Irish against Louisville or Miami (Fla), for example, is like watching a pickup game at the local YMCA pitting the experienced, cerebral 40-something-year olds against the young, athletic "and-1" players. It means hitting your free throws (ND leads the nation) and not turning the ball over (ND is among the leaders), two areas Ohio is struggling.

I agree that Ohio doesn't have the athletic talent that UB, Akron, EMU (and others) might have. The question is, can the Cats play a more unselfish and cerebral type game to compensate. I believe the program can but has a ways to go to get to that point.

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