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Topic:  John Groce

Topic:  John Groce
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BOB&BEARCAT
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  Message Not Read  John Groce
   Posted: 2/6/2016 10:59:28 PM 
Will John Groce get fired this season ?
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Old Zone
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  Message Not Read  RE: John Groce
   Posted: 2/6/2016 11:20:33 PM 
BOB&BEARCAT wrote:
Will John Groce get fired this season ?

TOS to Illinois?
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: John Groce
   Posted: 2/7/2016 1:15:49 PM 
BOB&BEARCAT wrote:
Will John Groce get fired this season ?


It's been an ongoing conversation for the last two months. I say no, but it depends on what happens with their timing hiring a new AD. He absolutely deserves another year so his entire group can prove what they can do when half the roster isn't facing missed games due to injuries.
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71 BOBCAT
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  Message Not Read  RE: John Groce
   Posted: 2/7/2016 2:16:36 PM 
It doesn't look good for him.
I hope he saved some of that big contract?





GO BOBCATS
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: John Groce
   Posted: 2/7/2016 5:57:41 PM 
Brutal headline and caption:

http://www.blackheartgoldpants.com/2016/2/7/10931584/iowa...
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bornacatfan
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  Message Not Read  RE: John Groce
   Posted: 2/7/2016 6:41:58 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
Brutal headline and caption:

http://www.blackheartgoldpants.com/2016/2/7/10931584/iowa...


My buddy does the Hammer and Rails SB site for Purdue. To say they are unbiased journalsts would be laughable....kind of an amateur hour I tend to give Travis a bealthy dose of crap about. Looks like the Iowa writer is even less of a professional.

Injury bug is hard. Now even the recruits are subject...just lost one Friday to 2 fractures in his foot. Brutal.


Only losing Thorne so the group coming back should be good....of course the new AD should be announced in a few days. Not sure who they would get to take his place ....several passed last time around...Drew at Valpo and coach at UNC Wilmington are possibilities...not sure if any of them would go. Mack at X would laugh at the offer IMHO.

Just really odd to look at Groce and Holtmann and know they both came out of Taylor and followed different paths to and from Ohio but are in wholly different places in coaching at the moment.

I think he gets another year.

never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer.....

The game loves and rewards those who love and reward the game

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BuddyLee
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  Message Not Read  RE: John Groce
   Posted: 2/7/2016 10:41:00 PM 
My guess is they get an Illinois guy in there like Kendall Gill. Groce will be a HC again someday.
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100%Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: John Groce
   Posted: 2/8/2016 10:10:43 AM 
Alan Swank wrote:
Brutal headline and caption:

http://www.blackheartgoldpants.com/2016/2/7/10931584/iowa...


Disassembly Hall...ouch.
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UpSan Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: John Groce
   Posted: 2/8/2016 10:30:57 AM 
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Caq1-XMXIAAob7q.jpg:large

There's the front sports page from the Champaign paper.
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brucecuth
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  Message Not Read  RE: John Groce
   Posted: 2/9/2016 9:29:10 PM 
I watched them lose against Ohio State in a game that was gift-wrapped for the Illini. They had 31 free throw attempts to 13 for OSU but only made 18. If they'd just shot 65% from the line they'd won without overtime. That's not good and neither is it good when a coach publicly calls out his team's toughness. These are all guys JG recruited.

They've got Rutgers and Minny at home. My sense is they need to win both, and maybe beat Penn St on the road. 5 conference wins will be difficult to defend. In addition, if the season continues at current pace, total wins under JG will have decreased every year, and he'll have failed to have even one season when his team finished above .500 in conference. That gets you a severance check.

Last Edited: 2/9/2016 9:33:52 PM by brucecuth
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Bobcatbob
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  Message Not Read  RE: John Groce
   Posted: 2/10/2016 8:35:05 AM 
Too bad for JG. You can't blame a guy for grabbing the brass ring but you have to hope that they are really ready when they do.

I think about Saul telling everyone who would listen that Ohio is his dream job and he isn't going anywhere. While I hope for his sake that isn't true, I do think that one should stay where they are comfortable as long as they are learning and growing. My guess is that that takes more than a handful of years per stop.

Groce's choice has worked out for us, IMHO, but not so much for him.
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: John Groce
   Posted: 2/10/2016 9:15:42 AM 
Bobcatbob wrote:
Too bad for JG. You can't blame a guy for grabbing the brass ring but you have to hope that they are really ready when they do.

I think about Saul telling everyone who would listen that Ohio is his dream job and he isn't going anywhere. While I hope for his sake that isn't true, I do think that one should stay where they are comfortable as long as they are learning and growing. My guess is that that takes more than a handful of years per stop.

Groce's choice has worked out for us, IMHO, but not so much for him.


Personally,I hope things work out and Saul does stay as OUr coach for a long time.
He seems like a guy who wants to develop a program,not just win some games.

Similar to what Frank's goals were.
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.
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  Message Not Read  RE: John Groce
   Posted: 2/10/2016 10:00:38 AM 
I just wish he'd waited for a job with more realistic expectations. He went into a situation where they expected Deron Williams/Dee Brown results from a program that is more of a program that is probably, what, the seventh or eighth-best program in the conference historically?

Indiana, Purdue, Michigan State,Maryland, Ohio State, Wisconsin...maybe then Illinois? Maybe Michigan?

Last Edited: 2/10/2016 10:01:28 AM by .
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Recovering Journalist
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  Message Not Read  RE: John Groce
   Posted: 2/10/2016 11:17:54 AM 
Brian Smith wrote:
I just wish he'd waited for a job with more realistic expectations. He went into a situation where they expected Deron Williams/Dee Brown results from a program that is more of a program that is probably, what, the seventh or eighth-best program in the conference historically?

Indiana, Purdue, Michigan State,Maryland, Ohio State, Wisconsin...maybe then Illinois? Maybe Michigan?


You can't afford to wait as a MAC coach. People forget that we beat Akron by ONE point in the final. One Zippy layup and we're on the road in the NIT and no one outside of Athens cares about John Groce. You take the multimillion dollar raise when it presents itself.
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.
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  Message Not Read  RE: John Groce
   Posted: 2/10/2016 11:36:57 AM 
Recovering Journalist wrote:
Brian Smith wrote:
I just wish he'd waited for a job with more realistic expectations. He went into a situation where they expected Deron Williams/Dee Brown results from a program that is more of a program that is probably, what, the seventh or eighth-best program in the conference historically?

Indiana, Purdue, Michigan State,Maryland, Ohio State, Wisconsin...maybe then Illinois? Maybe Michigan?


You can't afford to wait as a MAC coach. People forget that we beat Akron by ONE point in the final. One Zippy layup and we're on the road in the NIT and no one outside of Athens cares about John Groce. You take the multimillion dollar raise when it presents itself.


You're right. I shouldn't have said he should've waited. That goes against what I posted at the time. I defended his decision on here pretty vehemently. You're right. You take the money. The coaching pay disparity creates a game theory that nearly demands you take the big job, more for your assistants than anything else. The mid-major jobs are always going to be there for him if Illinois doesn't pan out. Or he'll get a primo assistant's job instantly on Matta's bench if he wants to go that route.

I guess what I should've said is:

There are other jobs right at Illinois' level that don't come with that fanbase, that don't come with the headaches of dealing with Chicago's recruiting three-ring circus and don't put you in the siuation of trying to build while going up against a conference that has risen to a really high level over the past decade. Even Iowa is a predator now. Indiana, Purdue and Michigan have rediscovered their mojo. They've added a resurgent Maryland to the mix. The Illinois athletic department has seemed dysfuncational for a long time.

Illinois was just a pit of quicksand for him from the beginning. That's not re-thinking his decision. It's just that he was never going to be able to build something lasting there. All jobs comes with hurdles. After all, there's a reason the position was open whenever you get a job after someone is fired. But that's an especially dysfunctional place. They've seemed like the Cleveland Browns of athletic departments the six or seven years.

As for the what-if Akron thing: I don't like to play that game. What if Akron did win that game? What if Akron played Michigan and lost by 37 points? What if Akron went to the Sweet 16 and Dambrot left Akron and the Zips are now on a downward spiral in his absence? All possible. Just too expansive for even my jumble-jack mind.

The only thing I saw with my eyes is John Groce got to that stage and when he was there showed he, more than any coach in the MAC in recent history, could coach a team at that level, could inspire a team to play completely fearlessly against bigger, more talented teams in four different NCAA tournament games in two separate seasons.

Groce passes my eye test (Sorry, Elton, I'm commandeering that for my own nefarious purposes) as a coach. I think he'll still end up being a big-time coach at a big-time program. His route will be a little less direct and more meandering than I once thought.



Last Edited: 2/10/2016 11:54:06 AM by .
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: John Groce
   Posted: 2/10/2016 11:45:02 AM 
Crazy thing is, you could almost just say DJ Cooper got him that job. Illinois saw that DJ was a Chicago kid making plays on a national stage, let's get the guy that recruited him. If recruiting Chicago was the main priority, that is.

Last Edited: 2/10/2016 12:28:24 PM by GoCats105
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BOB&BEARCAT
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  Message Not Read  RE: John Groce
   Posted: 2/10/2016 12:39:43 PM 
Maybe we can go to Illinois and help John pack up his house ? Plus Dustin will be unemployed like his brother.

Last Edited: 2/10/2016 12:40:26 PM by BOB&BEARCAT
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.
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  Message Not Read  RE: John Groce
   Posted: 2/10/2016 12:46:17 PM 
BOB&BEARCAT wrote:
Maybe we can go to Illinois and help John pack up his house ?


Uh, I think we all collectively have plans that weekend... (backs away slowly)
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bornacatfan
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  Message Not Read  RE: John Groce
   Posted: 2/10/2016 12:52:48 PM 
GoCats105 wrote:
Crazy thing is, you could almost just say DJ Cooper got him that job. Illinois saw that DJ was a Chicago kid making plays on a national stage, let's get the guy that recruited him. If recruiting Chicago was the main priority, that is.


Already been addressed on the Illini board early and often



Originally Posted by mrmill View Post
Um ok housed today. We suck. We've sucked forever. John Groce should pay 10% of his salary to DJ Cooper.

Brian's post is spot on......Illinois fans are unrealistic and see themselves as a fanbase as much more relevant than they ever have been. The attractive things such as proximity to family and roots in the midwest as well as the recruiting base are outweighed by the negatives that come with Illinois as a job. Self and Krueger used their time there and moved on while Henson suffered through his first decade and built the chicago/peoria connections to assemble some good runs. A lot of my Chicago area friends are Illini so I hear the casual fans view point as well as those who are hoops fanatics. The landscape from when I lived there has changed....Depaul,Loyola, Illinois and even Notre Dame (for those catlics who feel disenfranchised when we remind them the golden dome is not part of the Chicago Diocese) have changed greatly in stature since the 70's and 80's when I was in Chicago.

Groce is a good recruiter and a good coach. He is going to get caught up in the avalanch e of unreal expectaions and the what have you done lately crowd.

never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer.....

The game loves and rewards those who love and reward the game

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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: John Groce
   Posted: 2/10/2016 1:08:56 PM 
Bobcatbob wrote:


I think about Saul telling everyone who would listen that Ohio is his dream job and he isn't going anywhere. While I hope for his sake that isn't true, I do think that one should stay where they are comfortable as long as they are learning and growing. My guess is that that takes more than a handful of years per stop.




Is there somewhere that Saul said this was his "dream job"? I like your thought on styaing somewhere if you're learning and growing. Great point.

Not to start a thread drift, but as this Ohio team matures, it's not unrealistic to think that some bigger dogs will come calling for Saul in a couple seasons. It should be assumed that is gonna happen, and it shouldn't' be held against him.

Brian Smith wrote:
I just wish he'd waited for a job with more realistic expectations. He went into a situation where they expected Deron Williams/Dee Brown results from a program that is more of a program that is probably, what, the seventh or eighth-best program in the conference historically?

Indiana, Purdue, Michigan State,Maryland, Ohio State, Wisconsin...maybe then Illinois? Maybe Michigan?



I had similar thoughts when Groce went because of the unstable situation with the AD and the University President (at that time). I never expected the native fans to have such apparent unrealistic expectations. I know he's fighting an uphill battle, but again, I think given the rash of injuries, he deserves next year for all of them to show what they're made of.
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bornacatfan
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  Message Not Read  RE: John Groce
   Posted: 2/10/2016 1:48:29 PM 
OU_Country wrote:


I had similar thoughts when Groce went because of the unstable situation with the AD and the University President (at that time). I never expected the native fans to have such apparent unrealistic expectations. I know he's fighting an uphill battle, but again, I think given the rash of injuries, he deserves next year for all of them to show what they're made of.




AD choice getting clearer from the Interim Prexie. http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/2016-02-09/no-word...

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-illinois-...

Last Edited: 2/10/2016 1:59:07 PM by bornacatfan

never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer.....

The game loves and rewards those who love and reward the game

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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: John Groce
   Posted: 2/10/2016 2:30:10 PM 
Jeez, you read the comments just in the News Gazette article, and you get the idea of the prevailing attitudes they're up against over there.
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OUVan
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  Message Not Read  RE: John Groce
   Posted: 2/10/2016 3:06:43 PM 
While I agree with some of this I have to add that if Saul has John Groce's record at Illinois after four seasons we aren't going to be happy either. I hope he gets another year but I'd bet he doesn't. Maybe their expectations are unrealistic but you would expect in year four that the team would start to improve. They haven't for various reasons that may or may not have to do with Groce. But at the end of the day they could possibly end the year with the fewest wins they've had in more than 40 years. I don't think it's unrealistic expectations that are doing John in. It's the on-the-court results. And you can't condemn a fanbase as a what-have-you-done-lately crowd when John's triumphs were at another school. I have no doubt that if he's fired John will land on his feet and succeed at his next stop but I have a hard time blasting the fans for not being happy with what they have seen so far. He hasn't reached even realistic expectations.
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: John Groce
   Posted: 2/10/2016 9:12:47 PM 
Do you think we as a group on here would give Saul a bit of a pass if we lost Simmons, Dartis, Block and Kaminski for the majority of the season next year? Because from what I'm reading, that's essentially what's happened there this year, unless I'm mistaken.
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Mark Lembright '85
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  Message Not Read  RE: John Groce
   Posted: 2/10/2016 9:50:45 PM 
OU_Country wrote:
Do you think we as a group on here would give Saul a bit of a pass if we lost Simmons, Dartis, Block and Kaminski for the majority of the season next year? Because from what I'm reading, that's essentially what's happened there this year, unless I'm mistaken.





Saul better win a MACC before Year 12 or there will be you-know-what to pay!! Wink wink
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