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Topic: RE: Papi White - Ohio Commit

Topic: RE: Papi White - Ohio Commit

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TWT
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RE: Papi White - Ohio Commit

Posted: 2/2/2014 4:47:22 PM

OhioCatFan wrote:

I've heard that OHIO may use him as an RB (USM had him as a WR). If so, here's for Papi UTM being more successful than BUTM.

That is where I see the offense going next year to more 3 back sets. Vick's expectation is going to be one of a very good in game manager over a spectacular NFL arm like so many on here think we need.

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Monroe Slavin
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RE: Papi White - Ohio Commit

Posted: 2/2/2014 5:22:07 PM

I hope so. But why this year so reluctant to go to two-back sets, then?

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Doc Bobcat
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RE: Papi White - Ohio Commit

Posted: 2/2/2014 5:48:47 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

I hope so. But why this year so reluctant to go to two-back sets, then?

Personnel.

If we use Irons...Daz....Walker....White.....Brown...and Edmonds in backfield combos then you have half of those guys that u can split out .

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Papi White - Ohio Commit

Posted: 2/2/2014 8:20:09 PM

sameoldwhenBUTMwasn'tworkingatall,tryingsomething,anythingdifferentshould'vebeenanoption

Bcat2
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RE: Papi White - Ohio Commit

Posted: 2/2/2014 8:36:27 PM

Doc Bobcat wrote:

Monroe Slavin wrote:

I hope so. But why this year so reluctant to go to two-back sets, then?

Personnel.

If we use Irons...Daz....Walker....White.....Brown...and Edmonds in backfield combos then you have half of those guys that u can split out .

Balanced attack vs Running attack vs Passing attack. Pick one, not two, one then commit your recruiting, roster, practice time and offensive sets to support your choice. Then in a limited amount of practices you fine tune selected plays to perfect timing, footwork, etc.. Ohio seems to have committed to a balanced attack and has picked sets to support a balanced attack. They don't draw them up in the dirt between plays. Question. Teams that run mostly two backs, are they running, balanced or passing teams?

Last Edited: 2/3/2014 9:27:43 AM by Bcat2

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Papi White - Ohio Commit

Posted: 2/3/2014 9:54:51 AM

Then, when it's not working, stick with it relentlessly.

Your lack of thoughtfulness, shill, is stunning.

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Papi White - Ohio Commit

Posted: 2/3/2014 9:58:21 AM

In related news, IBM announced today that it was going to re-emphasize it's mainframe business because they were committed to that and it worked so well in the 70's.

Everyone else here learned how to thing and react to circumstances in elementary school.

are you ever going to answer re lack of W over .500 MAC school in a year and a half?

Bcat2
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RE: Papi White - Ohio Commit

Posted: 2/3/2014 10:20:25 AM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

Then, when it's not working, stick with it relentlessly.

Your lack of thoughtfulness, shill, is stunning.

FYI, the top backs totaled 1,600 yards and Blankenship averaged 4.5 on his 910 yards. Most years, except those following 1,600 yards, that would be good work, well enough to continue the process. No doubt if Denver had quickly switched to a two back set the Super Bowl would have been different.

Note. I am a fan. Have been since the sixties, played a little, coached a little, know enough to be dangerous. I have no inside team knowledge, don't watch practices, have no idea who is hurt or healthy, definitely don't know it all or enough to tell the coaches their business. So I will not.

Last Edited: 2/3/2014 2:00:48 PM by Bcat2

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Papi White - Ohio Commit

Posted: 2/3/2014 12:06:05 PM

Please look at our avg yard gained (our offense) and average yards given up (our defense) on the ground in the games that we lost in 2013. List them game by game.

Then, in light of those stats, tell me how an argument that nothing was wrong, that we shouldn't have tried something...almost anything...different is an intelligent one.

I do, however, admire the "BUTM" tattoo that you have in large letters on your forehead.

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Papi White - Ohio Commit

Posted: 2/3/2014 12:08:43 PM

Bcat2 wrote:

Monroe Slavin wrote:

Then, when it's not working, stick with it relentlessly.

Your lack of thoughtfulness, shill, is stunning.

FYI, the top backs totaled 1,600 yards and Blankenship averaged 4.5 on his 910 yards. Most years, except those following 1,600 yards, that would be good work, well enough to continue the process. No doubt if Denver had quickly switched to a two back set the Super Bowl would have been different.

Note. I am a fan. Have been since the sixties, played a little, know enough to be dangerous. I have no inside team knowledge, don't watch practices, have no idea who is hurt or healthy, definitely don't know it all or enough to tell the coaches their business. So I will not.

True. No one who is not a coach should opine, could possibly have a good thought. That's impressive work there.

L.C.
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RE: Papi White - Ohio Commit

Posted: 2/3/2014 1:46:45 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

Monroe, you keep maintaining that Ohio consistently ran the ball up the middle, even though it wasn't working, and never tried anything different. The problem is, your observation is wrong. If you go back and check the play by play for the games, you will find that Ohio was NOT consistently running BUTM, and especially in the losses they were not doing that, with the exception of Kent, where they were doing it early in the game. The most extreme example is the BG game. In that game Beau carried the ball on the first carry of the game, and then did not touch the ball again until Ohio's last play of the first quarter, and had 3 more carries in the 2d quarter, and one more in the first ten minutes of the 3d quarter. The bulk of Ohio's rushing attempts came after Ohio was down 42-0, when Ohio was just running the clock out.

The fact is that Ohio is historically a run-first team, and normally runs 55-60% of the time, and probably 65% of the time on first down. When they can successfully rush the ball, they rarely lose. When they can't run the ball, wins are hard to come by, but contrary to your claims that they just keep running the ball, they do try different things. In the five losses, Ohio only rushed the ball on only 48% of the plays, and that counts sacks and scrambles as rushes, so really, Ohio was passing most of the time, not running BUTM.

So, when the rushes were not working, Ohio did shift to passing the majority of the time, but, unfortunately, when the run isn't working, the pass rarely works all that well, either. While Ohio averaged 8.8 yards per passing attempt in games they won last year, they only averaged 5.1 yards per pass in the four regular season losses. Worse, in the 5 losses, Ohio had a total of 8 turnovers, all 8 of which came on passing plays.

In case you were preparing to reply "but on first down, its always BUTM", in those five losses 53% of the plays on first down were rushes, and 47% were passes, far below their normal historical percentage. Even more interesting, in the three games that bother you the most, BG, Buffalo, and Kent, when Ohio rushed the ball on first down, they averaged 3.8 yards a carry with no turnovers. When they passed on first down they averaged 2.9 yards per attempt, and had several turnovers. Passing put Ohio in the hole on first down more than rushing did.

I try to stay out of the speculation on how often that they should run various plays because I don't know exactly what they offensive coordinator is trying to accomplish, and what keys they use to determine the appropriate play to audible to, but I can tell from going over the play-by-play that the coaches had very different strategies in different games.

Last Edited: 2/3/2014 1:56:14 PM by L.C.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Casper71
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RE: Papi White - Ohio Commit

Posted: 2/3/2014 2:05:25 PM

Had to throw the ball more in NOV because we were so far behind. I think most would agree the running game left little to the imagination.

L.C.
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RE: Papi White - Ohio Commit

Posted: 2/3/2014 3:50:22 PM

Casper71 wrote:

Had to throw the ball more in NOV because we were so far behind. I think most would agree the running game left little to the imagination.

One might look at the traditional option play and say that it leaves little to the imagination, too. Rushing plays need to be effective, not imaginative.

I personally suspect that from week to week there was a lot of work going on behind the scenes making small changes, like blocking changes, or positional shifts, trying to solve the problems in the running game. Just because we don't see the changes doesn't mean that none were being made. Unfortunately they weren't effective, and that's the bottom line.

Still, to me anyway, the defense was the problem last year, much more than the offense. Against BG the defense gave up 2 TD's in the first 3 plays, and 4 out of the first 5 possessions. Against ECU the offense put points on the board, but couldn't keep up with with ECU. When you let the other team have their leading rusher average over 7 yards a game you aren't going to win most games. ECU's Cooper got 198 yards at 7.9 per carry. Kent's Archer got 138 at 9.2 a carry. Greene for BG got 149 yards at 6.8 a carry. Oliver for Buffalo got 249 yards at 7.3 a carry. CMU's Lavallii got 184 yards at 7.1 a carry. It just wasn't a good year for run defense. Heck EMU's running back go 257 yards at 11.2 yards a carry.

If the naysayers were blasting the defense all off-season, you wouldn't hear a peep out of me, but I disagree that playcalling on offense had much to do with the results.

Last Edited: 2/3/2014 4:11:24 PM by L.C.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Bobcat Grad 86
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RE: 2014 ATH Papi White (Seminole, OK) - Ohio Commit

Posted: 2/3/2014 4:00:31 PM

Doc Bobcat wrote:

RB from Seminole Oklahoma......will be visiting on 1/24/14......offers from Southern Miss. and WKU.....asPG would say you can NEVER have enough playmakers......shifty....nifty....and swifty.....don't let him leave without an offer and hopefully a verbal on the spot:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DffzTzrGXUE

Very Impressive talent.

Note though on the very first play #42 on defense (at the 12 second mark) does the TT/Jason Duffner sit-down move.

Last Edited: 2/3/2014 4:08:07 PM by Bobcat Grad 86

L.C.
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RE: 2014 ATH Papi White (Seminole, OK) - Ohio Commit

Posted: 2/3/2014 4:13:35 PM

Bobcat Grad 86 wrote:

Note though on the very first play #42 on defense (at the 12 second mark) does the TT/Jason Duffner sit-down move.

Hmm, I hadn't noticed that. It's almost like he pulled a muscle, or something, and had to stop fast.

Here's a new article on Papi switching to Ohio. Apparently SMU told him he could be the next Tracy Lamply, and he was not amused - he doesn't want to be the next anything, he wants to be himself. So...he's not the next Dri Archer, or the next Percy Harvin, or the next Chris Garrett, he's just Papi.

Last Edited: 2/3/2014 5:46:46 PM by L.C.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Papi White - Ohio Commit

Posted: 2/3/2014 10:34:28 PM

Didn't you also note that we'd forsaken the jet sweep? Didn't you also mention the lack of true run-wide options that we used a fair amount (qb and with running back off his hip) in 2012?

I'm pretty sure that the reason Beau hardly carried hardly at all in the first qtr against BG was that we hardly had it at all--they had 3 tds before we had a first down.

I'm glad that Ohio is a 'run first' team. I think the vast majority of us like that. But when it's not working...modify the run approach or pass it. Heck, when it works, it's a thing of beauty. Watch the 2nd half of the 2013 game vs. Beefs. That's Beefs that didn't win the MAC East. Their line was in unison absolutely blowing us off the scrimmage line. It was painful but awesome...the beauty of a running game locked in. Yeah, baby, 'd love to see Ohio that way.

Stats on whether we ran on first down or not and whether those runs were BUTM or not...meaningless; you could not possibly have watched our running game and our refusal to change its conception and not have been peeved. You could not because you are a sensible, businesslike guy.

A moment...too typical...Details may not be exact but the thought's there: 5 minutes into 2nd half vs. CMU. We had a 2nd and about 3-4 to go near midfield. BUTM for a yard or so to give 3rd and 1-2 for the first. We take time out. You know that we're coming back fired up, with a good play! Uh, BUTM. They stopped us. I don't know if we scored after that. Horrible. BUTM.

Last Edited: 2/3/2014 10:39:20 PM by Monroe Slavin

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Papi White - Ohio Commit

Posted: 2/3/2014 10:43:20 PM

Bcat2 wrote:

Monroe Slavin wrote:

Then, when it's not working, stick with it relentlessly.

Your lack of thoughtfulness, shill, is stunning.

Thank you for your inability to see that a 44% decrease in Beau's yards should have carried a message....and your ability to note that Denver's season paralleled ours...That the means Denver won with all year didn't work in the big one is not at all comparable to our season-long running woes vs any decent team.

Two more shill points for you.

Last Edited: 2/3/2014 10:47:40 PM by Monroe Slavin

AudioCat'13
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RE: Papi White - Ohio Commit

Posted: 2/4/2014 3:51:17 AM

You two going at each other in this thread is a little disrespectful to Mr. White don't you think? Do whatever you want, but you guys are making it difficult to want to even come to bobcat attack anymore. In the mean time, welcome to the green and white Mr. White. I can't wait to see a White/Daz tandem in Peden.

Doc Bobcat
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RE: Papi White - Ohio Commit

Posted: 2/4/2014 4:40:39 AM

AudioCat'13 wrote:

+1

This is the second recruits thread where this nana a booboo stick your head in doodoo jr. high s&^& has taken place. JMHO but it is friggin ridiculous.

Last Edited: 2/4/2014 4:30:09 PM by Jeff McKinney

colobobcat66
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RE: Papi White - Ohio Commit

Posted: 2/4/2014 10:37:04 AM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

L.C.-- Beg to differ about Ohio trying much that was not BUTM. First, I think that you said, at some point, that you only saw about 25% of the games. Maybe that was early and you ended up seeing most of the action. I saw almost every play. And there's a reason that BUTM is accepted, that no one asks what it means. It's because we kept to it so much when it was clearly not working. BUTM became a short hand for so much.

Didn't you also note that we'd forsaken the jet sweep? Didn't you also mention the lack of true run-wide options that we used a fair amount (qb and with running back off his hip) in 2012?

I'm pretty sure that the reason Beau hardly carried hardly at all in the first qtr against BG was that we hardly had it at all--they had 3 tds before we had a first down.

I'm glad that Ohio is a 'run first' team. I think the vast majority of us like that. But when it's not working...modify the run approach or pass it. Heck, when it works, it's a thing of beauty. Watch the 2nd half of the 2013 game vs. Beefs. That's Beefs that didn't win the MAC East. Their line was in unison absolutely blowing us off the scrimmage line. It was painful but awesome...the beauty of a running game locked in. Yeah, baby, 'd love to see Ohio that way.

Stats on whether we ran on first down or not and whether those runs were BUTM or not...meaningless; you could not possibly have watched our running game and our refusal to change its conception and not have been peeved. You could not because you are a sensible, businesslike guy.

A moment...too typical...Details may not be exact but the thought's there: 5 minutes into 2nd half vs. CMU. We had a 2nd and about 3-4 to go near midfield. BUTM for a yard or so to give 3rd and 1-2 for the first. We take time out. You know that we're coming back fired up, with a good play! Uh, BUTM. They stopped us. I don't know if we scored after that. Horrible. BUTM.

The problem with your dribble is that you get lost in the facts most of the time. Your memory about what happened in the CMU game exemplifies your being off base. Beau had made 6 yards and 8 yards a play in the two times before he carried for losses, plenty of reason to try it again. One time it was on second down another on third and two. And of course Ohio scored all three TD's after the second failure. Don't let the facts get in the way of your ramblings
And Beau had less yards this year- could any of that be due to more carries by Boykin?
And you have asked the question about wins over .500 MAC teams, but don't mention nice wins over Marshall and North Texas.
Nobody is entirely happy with last year, suck it up and move on. New team, new coaches next year, let's see what happens.

L.C.
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RE: Papi White - Ohio Commit

Posted: 2/4/2014 11:09:09 AM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

...I'm pretty sure that the reason Beau hardly carried hardly at all in the first qtr against BG was that we hardly had it at all--they had 3 tds before we had a first down....

Actually it works the other way. Because BG scored so many times and so quickly, Ohio had 4 possessions in the first quarter rather than the more typical 2, meaning that even with no first downs, Ohio ran 12 plays. The play selection in the first half was:
Beau for no gain
TT to Dixon, loss of 3
TT incomplete to Waters
TT sacked, loss of 2
TT incomplete to Waters
TT throws it away
TT to Foster for 1
TT to Waters for 5
TT sacked, loss of 3
TT rush for 1
TT to Cochran for 8
Beau for no gain
TT throws it away
TT to Hill for 16, first down
Foster rush for 5
TT incomplete to Hill
TT incomplete to Foster
Beau for 12, first down
TT to Foster for 3, fumbled
Beau for no gain
TT to Dixon for 6
TT incomplete to Cochran

So:
Rushing - 6 total tries (4 by Beau, one by TT, one by Foster), 18 yards, 1 first down, average 3 yards a play
Passing - 16 total attempts, 2 sacks, 1 fumble, 7 completions of 14 thrown, 31 total yards, average 1.9 yards a play

Did repeated inside runs cause the loss? No. Was there variety in the play calls? Yes. Was the offense ineffective anyway? Yes. Would they have been better off running more, and passing less? Probably. Had they run more often, the passing attempts would have probably been more successful.

AudioCat'13 wrote:

I agree, and I am done.

Welcome, Papi. Me, I'm looking forward to Irons/White and White/Walker tandems.

Last Edited: 2/4/2014 11:12:19 AM by L.C.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

jumper80
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RE: Papi White - Ohio Commit

Posted: 2/4/2014 12:09:29 PM

Just read through this thread , looked at the rankings for Papi, then I watched the highlight video.

Granted the competition doesn't look to be outstanding but unless I am a complete idiot (possible) this kid looks amazing. Smallish yes and I have no feel for his toughness or ability to break tackles but the video shows someone
With great vision , change of direction and serious speed. Unless everyone he plays is slow he has better football speed than his posted 40 time at least relative to the times you see posted from other recruits.

I dont think the recruiting services have any idea about this kid when I try to square the video with the recruiting comments. Very excited to have Papi come to Athens. I am shocked and thrilled he doesn't have a long list of offers
Do I have my green googles on? What am I missing he looks like a three star guy to me for sure.

Jeff McKinney
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RE: Papi White - Ohio Commit

Posted: 2/4/2014 7:22:42 PM

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Bcat2
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RE: Papi White - Ohio Commit

Posted: 2/4/2014 7:40:11 PM

Jeff McKinney wrote:

Inappropriate Posts
Inappropriate posts include: Flames ("you suck!"), personal attacks, and profanity. Baiting (responding to relevant post with non-relevant, flame post) Chest-beating by fans of other teams ("Ohio sucks!"). Factually false posts, particularly of a personal nature with regards to players and coaches. Any rumor spreading, however implicit, regarding legal isssues (where charges have not been filed) or personal lives of athletes or coaches. Posts named using someone elses name. (Cleve Bryant, Jim Grobe, Snoopy Graham) Post promoting products, services, web sites, or anything else. Profanity (that you won't hear during prime time television), either in the title or in the body of text.

Also at the top of the page under contact us is a link to report abuse or violations of the posting policy.

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

Mike Coleman
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RE: Papi White - Ohio Commit

Posted: 6/8/2014 2:53:54 PM

State champ in long jump, one of four medals at the Oklahoma State meet.

http://www.news-star.com/article/20140510/Sports/140519973

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