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Topic: New conference with 18-24 teams

Topic: New conference with 18-24 teams

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colobobcat66
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New conference with 18-24 teams

Posted: 2/13/2012 5:04:49 PM

If what Katz is saying on ESPN is right, the new super conference will pretty much have to impact the MAC besides Temple. 18-24 teams, when there are only 17 or so from the old MVC and C-USA may leave some holes. Hard not to see some top MAC teams going to this one. Don't know about us, market-wise. Any ideas?

Last Edited: 2/13/2012 5:10:06 PM by colobobcat66

BobcatSports
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RE: New conference with 18-24 teams

Posted: 2/13/2012 8:22:48 PM

I would see this new conference taking Sunbelt teams before looking at the MAC. As the great majority of what is left of CUSA is more southern based I would be surprised if any new expansion of CUSA with the possible exception of Temple would include any MAC teams.

Pataskala
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RE: New conference with 18-24 teams

Posted: 2/13/2012 8:27:32 PM

Really wouldn't want it. The WAC expanded from 8 to 16 teams a couple decades ago and HATED it. Old rivalries were lost and they lost their identity. Too damn much like Big Least b-ball. The original WAC teams had enough after a few years and formed the MWC. There are only two or three MAC teams that might interest a CUSA/MWC megaloconference. NIU for its football history and its proximity to Chicago; maybe Fiami for its "cradle of coaches" image and its proximity to Cincy, although it'd be tough for them to compete; Toledo has name recognition and is in a TV market (although it's a small TV market, it's near Detroit and is somewhat familiar to Motown folks through the Mudhens). The rest I think have too many minuses -- small markets; lack of consistent success; not much name recognition. Ohio is gaining on consistent success and name recognition, but not being in a TV market really hurts. In this case, I think it's a good thing. We don't need a big, unwieldy conference. We need to upgrade the MAC. Not easy to do, but worth it.

We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

L.C.
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RE: New conference with 18-24 teams

Posted: 2/13/2012 8:56:52 PM

I stuck what I thought a 24 team conference would look like in the Temple thread, but I will paste it here:

LC wrote:

South
Southern Miss, UAB, Tulane, Troy, Ark State, LA Monroe, Fla Int, Louisiana Tech

East
Marshall, East Carolina, Temple, Buffalo, Akron, N. Ill, Miami, BG, Toledo, Ohio

Texas
Tulsa, Rice, UTEP, SMU, Houston, N. Texas, Colorado State, Air Force

Mountains
Wyoming, UNLV, New Mexico, Idaho, Fresno State, Nevada, Hawaii, San Diego State
(note - the East has two teams too many)

The problem with a lot of conferences like CUSA is that they are regionally diverse, meaning lots of travel. By taking enough non-AQ teams and putting them in a massive conference, you have enough teams in each part of the country to get short travels and natural rivalries again. The other advantage is that, with this many teams, the ending champion is going to be decent, so this conference has a stronger argument for automatic qualification.

Last Edited: 2/13/2012 9:07:46 PM by L.C.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

PalmerFest
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RE: New conference with 18-24 teams

Posted: 2/13/2012 9:02:36 PM

LC - I like the plan but I think it comes out to 32 teams, not 24.

L.C.
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RE: New conference with 18-24 teams

Posted: 2/13/2012 9:09:37 PM

Haha - silly me - i got carried away. I started with 24 teams, actually, but the problem was that you end up with a 3 team playoff if you have 3 divisions of 8. I suppose you can have a wildcard, like the NFL. Also, 32 teams worked better from a standpoint of keeping things regional. If you are only going to have 3 groups, you probably combine the East and South, and lose most of the teams I have in the East.

You could cut to 24 by dropping 2 from each of my four divisions, and play 5 games in division, and one from each of the other divisions, along with 4 non-conference games, but which teams do you lose?

Last Edited: 2/13/2012 9:16:19 PM by L.C.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Football Jim
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RE: New conference with 18-24 teams

Posted: 2/13/2012 9:51:32 PM

As usual LC has it pretty well thought out, fuzzy math and all :) I think it is sad the way this conference shuffling is coming down. I like the MAC as is for the most part.

Hanging in there!

GO BOBCATS!

colobobcat66
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RE: New conference with 18-24 teams

Posted: 2/13/2012 10:31:17 PM

SMU, SDS and Houston are going to Big East so we're down to 29 on L's list.

L.C.
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RE: New conference with 18-24 teams

Posted: 2/13/2012 11:55:20 PM

L.C. wrote:

Southeast
Southern Miss, UAB, Troy, Ark State, East Carolina, Fla Int, Marshall, MTSU

East
Temple, Buffalo, Akron, N. Ill, Miami, BG, Toledo, Ohio

Southwest
Tulsa, Rice, UTEP, N. Texas, Colorado State, Tulane, LA Monroe, Louisiana Tech

Mountains
Wyoming, UNLV, New Mexico, Idaho, Fresno State, Nevada, Hawaii, Air Force

OK, I rearranged this a little, deleting SMU, Houston, and San Diego State, and then moving Air Force to the west, then the three Louisiana teams to the southwest, and finally moving Marshall and E. Carolina to the Southeast, and adding MTSU.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Paul Graham
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RE: New conference with 18-24 teams

Posted: 2/14/2012 11:38:10 AM

Pataskala wrote:

maybe Fiami for its "cradle of coaches" image and its proximity to Cincy, although it'd be tough for them to compete

No one could possibly want Miami at this point. Apathetic students and fans, seemingly little commitment from the university. They may put together a decent season now and then with a little luck, but in general they are fading fast.

colobobcat66
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RE: New conference with 18-24 teams

Posted: 2/14/2012 12:08:04 PM

Paul Graham wrote:

Pataskala wrote:

maybe Fiami for its "cradle of coaches" image and its proximity to Cincy, although it'd be tough for them to compete

What's amazing to me is that they have been scheduling big time programs in both bb and football like they are big time. The fans haven't signed on.

BobcatSports
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RE: New conference with 18-24 teams

Posted: 2/14/2012 12:26:19 PM

I just don't see Super CUSA adding any MAC teams but Temple. Temple's inclusion based solely on the Philly "potential" market although Temple has been so historically pathetic in football that they may have forever ruined that TV market potential. It's still stunning to me that the BigEast, which was/is on life support, went from coast to coast, begging virtually anyone, someone to join forces with them.

That Temple, being literally in the BigEast's front yard, with their pants down and legs spread, proved to be too ugly even at last call (they picked Memphis over Temple mind you), speaks volumes. That said, Temple to SCUSA is probably the only MAC school that would be included and again it's the "potential" of the TV market size that SCUSA would want.

The other MACers don't fit either geographically or in TV market potential to make much sense. That the CUSA/MWC merger is mostly a south/southwest/west conglomeration it just seems to me that they would fill in any blanks with SunBelt and WAC teams before even considering a MAC school. They can easily get to their 16-24 team conference and never consider a MAC school

Pete Chouteau
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RE: New conference with 18-24 teams

Posted: 2/14/2012 12:55:54 PM

They will add Akron.

TUVideo Guy
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RE: New conference with 18-24 teams

Posted: 2/14/2012 1:02:24 PM

Learn some facts.. The only reason Temple isn't in the Big East is because Villanova is blocking them.

colobobcat66
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RE: New conference with 18-24 teams

Posted: 2/14/2012 1:10:09 PM

TUVideo Guy wrote:

Learn some facts.. The only reason Temple isn't in the Big East is because Villanova is blocking them.

Maybe, but source of this fact, please?

UpSan Bobcat
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RE: New conference with 18-24 teams

Posted: 2/14/2012 1:20:21 PM

http://dailymail.com/Sports/MUSports/201202130105?page=2&build=cache

This article mentions some of the teams that could fill out the rest of the conference and mentions none from the MAC. The possiblities it gives are Florida International, Louisiana Tech, Charlotte, UT-San Antonio, North Texas and Western Kentucky.

I really don't see any reason a team from the MAC would want any part of this. Travel would go from great to terrible and would be extremley costly. The level of play in football would be about on par with the MAC. I compared Sagarin ratings from last year in the MAC to those in the teams going to be left in Conference USA and the Mountain West and the MAC comes out ahead of the Mountain West and just behind Conference USA.

TUVideo Guy
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RE: New conference with 18-24 teams

Posted: 2/14/2012 2:05:01 PM

colobobcat66 wrote:

TUVideo Guy wrote:

Learn some facts.. The only reason Temple isn't in the Big East is because Villanova is blocking them.

Maybe, but source of this fact, please?

http://articles.philly.com/2011-10-20/sports/30301898_1_villanova-big-east-temple/2

http://vuhoops.com/2011/10/13/power-play-by-villanova-administration/

Last Edited: 2/14/2012 2:07:09 PM by TUVideo Guy

colobobcat66
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RE: New conference with 18-24 teams

Posted: 2/14/2012 2:14:30 PM

TUVideo Guy wrote:

colobobcat66 wrote:

TUVideo Guy wrote:

Learn some facts.. The only reason Temple isn't in the Big East is because Villanova is blocking them.

Maybe, but source of this fact, please?

http://articles.philly.com/2011-10-20/sports/30301898_1_v...

http://vuhoops.com/2011/10/13/power-play-by-villanova-adm.../

Come on. The first article say VI is not against. The second is a VI message board. Facts please.

TUVideo Guy
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RE: New conference with 18-24 teams

Posted: 2/14/2012 3:08:36 PM

Did you read the first article? Wright says Temple can join as long as Nova gets in for football which ain't happening.

The second one was from a Villanova source!

Not enough? How is this?

It looks like Temple was all but officially in the Big East in early October 2011 until Villanova vehemently lobbied against Temple's inclusion. Here is the final 'official' voting from a very good source, a former Big East employee in RI (now FL). BTW this vote was to include Temple for all sports. There was no discussion on a football-only membership at the time which is contrary to my own belief at the time.

All for Temple except for:

Villanova
St John's (took a while before they voted against Temple, key vote?)
De Paul
Marquette
Providence

Unknown vote or possibly an abstain:

USF

One of the interesting things to come out was the strong support by Rutgers. The Villanova anti-Temple rant was interrupted by a Rutgers representitive. RU effectively said that bringing Temple into the Big East might hurt their (RU's) recruiting and potentially hamper the football program. But they felt that the conference's best interest was to bring in Temple for all sports. RU also cited that Temple would become a huge rival that would be a very healthy as the conference matures.

BobcatSports
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RE: New conference with 18-24 teams

Posted: 2/14/2012 3:58:24 PM

TUVideoGuy, that revelation makes it even more embarrassing. The BigEast powers to be are SO weak and intimidated by Villanova of all people. As the BigEast football brand was crashing before it's very eyes, they let a NON-D1 football playing piss-ant dictate to them to exclude Temple? Seriously?

And the BigEast went all the way to HAWAII to fill a "football only" spot when they had Temple sitting primed and ready in one of the nations "biggest" TV and metro markets. And they let NOVA say NO to Temple? Wouldn't it have made more sense for the BigEast to tell NOVA to take their basketball and shove it up their collective _sses?

So if I have this straight - the BigEast, cowed by a NON D1 playing football - and hardly indistinguishable BBall program (pick em amongst Marquette, St.John's, Seton Hall, DePaul, you get the picture) - had the power to kept out of the football starved Big East the vaunted Temple Ow!s. Ow! how that must hurt!

Temple had no more "cajones" than that to influence the Big East? They let the little NOVA push Temple out? And you publically wail and cry about in in public forums. What a pathetically, laughable punch of _ussies Templeton's are. Go NOVA!

I guess you Templeton's are just thanking your lucky stars that NOVA didn't make you morons move the whole University over to Delaware, huh? Obviously Philly's not "big" enough for 2 "players" huh? Temple a historically pathetic prior BigEast jettisoned in shame D1 football program, NOVA with the DII or is it DIII football program, both NOVA and Temple's basketball gyms filled to the rafters collectively on any given night would amount to 30,000 people out of a 6 MILLION people market and NOVA kicks your sorry _sses to the curb. And the Flyers thing they're the Broad Street Bullies!

Last Edited: 2/14/2012 4:07:05 PM by BobcatSports

colobobcat66
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RE: New conference with 18-24 teams

Posted: 2/14/2012 4:08:38 PM

And everybody remembers Villanova being invited by the Big East earlier to join in football.

Casper71
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RE: New conference with 18-24 teams

Posted: 2/14/2012 4:27:20 PM

funny, the non football guys kept them out?

Last Edited: 2/14/2012 4:31:02 PM by Casper71

Physicist MH55
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RE: New conference with 18-24 teams

Posted: 2/14/2012 4:45:31 PM

Villanova has had an extremely successful run representing the Big East Basketball Conference. They have brought millions in revenue. Can one imagone how much influence Ohio U Basketball might have in the MAC if they had ever accomplished anything ? I mean absolutely anything ?

Mike Coleman
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RE: New conference with 18-24 teams

Posted: 2/14/2012 5:26:27 PM

Physicist MH55 wrote:

He's right. It's been atrocious. We have the same amount of NCAA tourney wins during the past 10 years as schools like Temple.

C Money
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RE: New conference with 18-24 teams

Posted: 2/14/2012 5:27:55 PM

UpSan Bobcat wrote:

I really don't see any reason a team from the MAC would want any part of this. Travel would go from great to terrible and would be extremley costly. The level of play in football would be about on par with the MAC. I compared Sagarin ratings from last year in the MAC to those in the teams going to be left in Conference USA and the Mountain West and the MAC comes out ahead of the Mountain West and just behind Conference USA.

This this this this this this this. The CUSA/MWC leftovers are not much--if any--better than the MAC. Yes, having that many teams across that much of the nation gives you a certain degree of leverage in negotiating a TV deal. But for how long? You're asking for disfunction with this many different voices, none of whom actually want to be in the conference but are only there out of fear of necessity. And the MAC puts out a more entertaining product. Our conference just needs to figure out how to better leverage said 63-60 shootouts.

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