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Topic: Peden Expansion

Topic: Peden Expansion

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The Optimist
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Member Since: 3/16/2007
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Peden Expansion

Posted: 8/24/2012 11:08:46 AM

Peden Expansion

	Second level on student side
	Redone bleacher end zone (corners) to wrap around
	Other
	Still not ready

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With all the talk of increased season ticket sales and the completion of the IPF coming near, I think the next logical step is stadium expansion. For a very long time, Peden talk was fun to think about but seemed like a pipe dream. I do not believe it is unrealistic anymore. We are winning consistently, and starting to see the rewards of that with increased attendance. The Marshall and Temple games last year were approaching Pitt level without a top notch opponent.

One proposal I've seen a lot of on here would be to add a second deck above the student side. While this would add a quality amount of seating, and help the feel of Peden, I think our better bet for helping the feel of Peden would be knocking down the two corner bleacher sections. I would like to see Peden become a complete horseshoe with the seats extending down to the same level as the two main grandstands along the sideline. The issue I would see with this over the other option, would be the addition of less than prime seating. I think part of the reason those corner seats are unappealing is because they are disconnected (different height) then the rest of the stadium, however their location with respect to the field certainly isn't prime. Those are the only two options I've seen discussed, if anyone has other ideas please mention them. I really can't see an expansion going higher than 35,000, and even that would be high.

I don't expect the timeline for this to be fast, but I really see this as the next big fundraising platform for the AD. If we have the season we think we can have, I think we'd be able to raise significant funds this year. Especially if these games sell out. If I'm missing some other big AD capital funding issue, I'd love to know what that is.

Last Edited: 8/24/2012 11:11:20 AM by The Optimist

I've seen crazier things happen.

GoCats105
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RE: Peden Expansion

Posted: 8/24/2012 11:35:13 AM

If we do this, do it right. a full horseshoe is not the way to do it. We'll be looked at as a mini-Ohio State in my opinion, although other schools certainly have done horseshoes (UC's Nippert Stadium comes to mind).

My suggestions:

-knock out the corner bleachers and square it off putting an entire new section covering the width of the endzone and sidelines. And take it as low as the stands on either side of the stadium, sort of boxing the field in with those brick walls. I have a feeling this would make it louder and keep the noise level on the field. Move the students to that section if you like (think UGA's "between the hedges", but only half of it).

-Add a new scoreboard/jumbotron to the new seating area, that way it's visible from the exit to Richland Avenue. Nothing cooler than on a night game passing by a lit up stadium and seeing what the score is, especially if it's OHIO 45 - Miami 0.

-leave the grassy knoll as is, but if we get big enough we can start charging for this. Missouri does this for their grassy hill area and they sell Standing Room Only tickets. Obviously this is waaaayyy down the line in terms of building the program, but still something to think about.

-Overall, I'd like to see Peden's capacity at 40,000-50,000. Going up to 35,000 isn't anything special to me. Go big or go home.

Last Edited: 8/24/2012 11:38:45 AM by GoCats105

SBH
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RE: Peden Expansion

Posted: 8/24/2012 12:01:27 PM

I've thought about this a lot. There is no need to expand Peden to beyond 35K.

Those corner sections aren't "bleachers." They have concrete flooring. If you've been to the new Akron stadium, 2/3 of the seating is exactly the same, but with steel flooring.

They are higher to establish unimpeded sightlines.

My suggestion, and the easiest and most economical, is to complete the horseshoe on the same elevated level as the two corner sections, but have the seating on this inner "wedge" extend all the way down the field. I don't think they can extend the two corner sections down to the field because the areas beneath them are walkways and it would be too dark/cavernous under there. By completing with this inner wedge, it would give that end of the stadium a much more finished look. And please use brick on the trim to add class/consistency. Also give some thought to adding a mini tower to the back of this inner wedge for hospitality areas and 5-6 "loges."

Gallia Cat
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RE: Peden Expansion

Posted: 8/24/2012 12:04:58 PM

I personally believe the entire student side of the stadium should be demolished and rebuilt. While I do not like the corners , by rebuilding the student side of the stadium the architect could actually make the corners attach and fit. Those corners could also be expanded by building DOWN to the field. I think Peden needs to have 30,000 seats and the hill in the south endzone needs to be maintained for overflow. I hope this all takes place before Kansas and Cincinnati come to town.

Last Edited: 8/24/2012 12:12:56 PM by Gallia Cat

Casper71
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RE: Peden Expansion

Posted: 8/24/2012 12:12:46 PM

First, Nippert in cincinnati has been a "horseshoe" for it's entire life. They added some "higher" seats in the corners.

Personally, I hate corner and end zone seats. So, I say if you do it, add on to one side or the other between the 20 yard lines and give people good views of the field.

Recovering Journalist
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RE: Peden Expansion

Posted: 8/24/2012 12:33:03 PM

The Optimist is really earning his name with this idea. Shouldn't we figure out how to fill the current stadium before worrying about more capacity? I know things have been going well for a few years, but it hardly makes for a solid tradition. I'd much rather see upgrades in the current configuration than 10,000 likely empty seats. The current bathrooms are terrible, and the concession areas aren't much better. Even if all the new seats got filled for all five or six annual home games, there would be very little to ROI on the cost of the project given our $0.00-$4.95 ticket prices. The things that keep Ohio from being sought after by "big time" conferences have nothing to do with the capacity at Peden.

Before the school commits to any major football spending, it seems like it would be wise to figure out what the hell is going to happen to FBS football in the next few years. The changes already happening have been rapid, and the funding pressure on non-AQ public schools -- all of which lose money on football -- is enormous. This is simply not realistic.

Mark Lembright '85
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RE: Peden Expansion

Posted: 8/24/2012 12:40:27 PM

Gallia Cat wrote:

I could not agree more with this, especially tearing down the student side and rebuilding a new deck or two over there. IMHO the student side deck is very small, looks small on TV and for the most part is decrepit. In fact, I'd be in favor of tearing down all of Peden Stadium and rebuidling from scratch, but I know that will never happen as the $ is just not there. But the student decking is just terrible and really makes OUr program seem smalltime and minor. Replacing it seems like a great start to me. I think the idea of a bigger, more modern scoreboard is a great idea too.

GoCats105
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RE: Peden Expansion

Posted: 8/24/2012 12:59:52 PM

Journalist:

Really? I'm sure that 24,000 doesn't scare them away at all...

I'm not saying that Ohio is anywhere near the point of jumping up, because they're not. But if we're going to continue along this path of investing heavily in athletics and making sure the football program is top-notch (or as close as you can get in our case), then stadium expansion is a huge issue. You think that we're buidling an indoor practice facility just to stay on par with others in the MAC? That may be part of it, but it's also a sign that we're willing to do what it takes to make the jump to another level. Keeping up with the Joneses, as I believe the original thread on this site was titled regarding that very topic.

Last Edited: 8/24/2012 1:01:57 PM by GoCats105

L.C.
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RE: Peden Expansion

Posted: 8/24/2012 1:29:06 PM

It seems appropriate to me to be asking these questions, and to be starting to assemble ideas. I think everyone agrees it isn't time to build something, but how long has it taken from when the IPF was conceived, to get it from an idea, to a concept, to a funded concept, to a real building? I think it's about a 5-6 year timeline, so planning well ahead is necessary.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

ytownbobcat
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RE: Peden Expansion

Posted: 8/24/2012 2:21:12 PM

One consideration of the new design should be built around luring students to home games. Students today say Peden is like a high school stadium.
If we could get it to be a more physically enticing venue it could increase our student crowds. Like the effect of Jacobs Field on the Indians attendance.( I know the Indians stink now.)
I think our football program has surpassed Peden as an adequate venue.

Deciduous Forest Cat
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RE: Peden Expansion

Posted: 8/24/2012 2:36:05 PM

ytownbobcat wrote:

This is what I've always said. Example number one is right across the street. Look what the Convo does for Ohio basketball. Peden stadium is simply a subpar Division 1 football facility. no matter how we try to dress it up, nothing short of a major renovation, one that involves some destruction, can save it.

Bobcatbob
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RE: Peden Expansion

Posted: 8/24/2012 3:44:41 PM

Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:

So you don't think that telling people that it's the "Wrigley Field of college football" is doing the trick? What the hell did that ever mean anyway?

The original Peden may have had some "charm" in the same way that the log cabin across the street has "charm" but no one would want to spend a lot of time in either place. I agree that the serial, half-a^%ed renovations have killed any charm value it ever had and it's time to dress up the ol' pig,

bostonbobcat
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RE: Peden Expansion

Posted: 8/24/2012 4:13:46 PM

ytownbobcat wrote:

Attendance bumps because of the look of the venue are minimal at best and are short term. People came to Jacobs Field in the early years because the team was good. The team stinks now, ballpark looks the same and it doesn't draw flys.

BSJ73
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RE: Peden Expansion

Posted: 8/24/2012 4:26:51 PM

I have always heard that Peden was originally designed to be a horseshoe by the same architectural firm that designed old Cleveland Municipal Stadium, but money was an issue (sound familiar?) and it was cut back, to be completed in the future. Why not dust off the original design, knock down those awful looking elevated sections and keep the classic look?

L.C.
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RE: Peden Expansion

Posted: 8/24/2012 4:41:31 PM

bostonbobcat wrote:

..Attendance bumps because of the look of the venue are minimal at best and are short term. People came to Jacobs Field in the early years because the team was good. The team stinks now, ballpark looks the same and it doesn't draw flys.

If anyone questions this, they need look no further than Akron. In the end it's the product on the field people come to see. I do think, though, that the quality of the stadium affects the price you can charge. People expect to pay more to sit in a nice stadium.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

SBH
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RE: Peden Expansion

Posted: 8/24/2012 5:14:44 PM

I like watching games in Peden. It's cozy, yes, but we're very close to the action. I've been to many/most MAC stadia and I really think ours is vastly underrated.

Deciduous Forest Cat
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RE: Peden Expansion

Posted: 8/24/2012 5:48:45 PM

SBH wrote:

I like watching games in Peden. It's cozy, yes, but we're very close to the action. I've been to many/most MAC stadia and I really think ours is vastly underrated.

We're close to the action on what basis? Are the sideline seats any closer than the average sideline seats? The average seat might be closer because, again, it's small, but what I'm asking is... is 25 rows up on the 50 any closer than 25 rows up on the 50 at another venue? With the track, we lost that battle to anyone with a football only facility. I suppose things improved when we added seats closer to the field - that improved the average seat's "closeness". That said, the stadium still offers a poorer sightline on average because the stands aren't steep enough. Bringing kids to the game can be quite a hassle because they can't even see over smaller adults in front of them.

No one's talking about becoming Neyland stadium here. We have a tiny stadium. It could be expanded to a reasonable and realistic degree, while adding very good seats, getting rid of the worst seats, and keeping the intimate feel of a small stadium.

I can't imagine how awesome Akron's stadium would be on our campus. Take our fans and our campus and their stadium? Fuhgettaboutit! And that's only a few thousand more than Peden's overflow capacity. Marshall, before they expanded, is another good example. Fantastic stadium, only 30k seats

Last Edited: 8/24/2012 5:52:45 PM by Deciduous Forest Cat

The Optimist
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RE: Peden Expansion

Posted: 8/24/2012 5:57:16 PM

I am very curious about reasons people don't think we are ready to talk expansion yet.

I've been a Bobcat my whole life, and got lucky with college timing and ended up being an undergrad the last 4 years. 4 years that included multiple NCAA tourney wins and a bowl win along with lots and lots of wins. It was a great time to be a Bobcat. I know others who have been on campus alongside me also noticed that our fanbase on campus grew by leaps and bounds. My freshman year felt a lot different than my senior year last year as far as interest on campus was concerned.
We aren't completely selling out every game, but by the early looks of things it seems like we are going to pack Peden this year.... Despite a less than exciting schedule... With the IPF out of the way we have no other major capital funding issues. Yes, athletic funding on a year to year basis is an issue for a program our size, but realistically that has very little to do with a stadium expansion that would depend on funding from donors. Winning this season will go a long way (fingers crossed). Whatever happens, I think it would be silly not to capitalize now. I would love to see this done by the time Kansas and Cincy come to town.

Realistically, what kind of money needs to be raised? Infocision was 61 million. It won't be that high. How far would another IPF size fundraiser get us? I realize that was largely one donation.

I've seen crazier things happen.

Bobcat Grad 86
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RE: Peden Expansion

Posted: 8/24/2012 8:08:16 PM

Article from back in 2000: http://www.ohio.edu/ohiotoday/winter00/departments/gandw/peden.html

I assume the new indoor facility is too close to Peden for a deck to be constructed.

The Pessimist
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RE: Peden Expansion

Posted: 8/24/2012 11:26:31 PM

Why not something on the west side? From a first-impressions point of view, the IPF on the east side (hopefully) will impress people arriving from the Marietta direction. Approaching from any other direction, the west and northwest side is the first side visible. Is that the most impressive?

Nostalgic, perhaps, for the alumni, but recruits probably aren't thinking of nostalgia when they first step on campus.

Keeping the facility-improvement ball rolling after the IPF cannot be a bad thing when it comes to attracting quality coaching after Solich leaves. It will happen, someday. Let's do what we can to make our recent gains permanent.

perimeterpost
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RE: Peden Expansion

Posted: 8/25/2012 12:02:04 AM

Lot of great comments and suggestions, I'll echo some of my preferences-

- I agree that the small time look of Peden hinders enthusiasm. The Convo analogy was perfect.

- No horseshoe. get rid of the corner segments (looks terrible) and build something(?) straight across to capture sound. Love the idea of a jumbotron you can see from the highway.

- crazy idea alert- we could use the north end to create something that would make the stadium unique. You ever go to a minor league baseball game? they always have crazy stuff behind the outfield wall like big patios or hot tubs. How bout recreating the Greenery's dance floor, complete with DJ? that way after half time instead of leaving to go uptown they can stay and go shake their groove thing at the game if they want.

- I agree that the student side should be torn down and rebuilt. make it look like the student side of Infocision.

- if the stadium is renamed I suggest Ohio's Tate Stadium, but spell it as Ohio'StateStadium. Screw 'em. if not that then Peden or Bobcat Stadium will suffice.

- Seating capacity- 35K with an option to expand to 40K would be ideal. I came up with 35K by looking at the two closest schools (not in Columbus), Marshall and UCincinnati. I think these two schools give us a good idea of what out potential could be based on our similarities and differences. Here are some data points to consider-

Current Seating Capacity-
OU- 24,000
MU- 38,019
UC- 35,097

Avg Attendance (2010)
OU- 19,046
MU- 27,046
UC- 35,067

Students
OU- 20,857
MU- 14,196
UC- 33,329

Living Alumni
OU- 197,000
MU- 75,059
UC- 252,964

County Population
OU- 64,759
MU- 96,319
UC- 800,362

Compared to Marshall we have a slightly smaller local population but a much larger pool of Alumni and current students to drawn from, they have a better history of fan support and we both have to deal with an instate gorilla. It seems reasonable that with a stadium expansion and a continued level of success we could match or even exceed their numbers.

Compared to Cinncinati we are outgunned in local population, current students, and living alumni. On top of that they are in an AQ conference and are in the one corner of the state that arguably doesn't suckle from the Buckeye teet as fervently as the rest of the state does. Matching their attendance output would be a significant achievement given these variances.

Based on all of that I think an attendance number of 28K-32K would be the realistic top end and therefore a stadium with a capacity of 35K would be optimal.

p.s. here's some added perspective- Boise State with all of their success and lack of any local 800lb gorilla to share fans with averaged 32K in 2010.

Last Edited: 8/25/2012 12:02:30 AM by perimeterpost

MY STATE. MY TEAM.

Flat Tire
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RE: Peden Expansion

Posted: 8/25/2012 6:23:34 AM

perimeterpost wrote:

You need to adjust your figures for the "county" population for Marshall. Huntington is located in two counties (Cabell and Wayne) and the total population 138,759. The MU School of Pharmacy is located on the VA campus in the Spring Valley section of Huntington in Wayne County and is a just a few miles from the main campus.

By the way, check out the link to BSU's stadium expansion. The stadium now seats 37,000.
http://www.idahostatesman.com/2012/08/26/2245019/boise-st...

Last Edited: 8/26/2012 6:44:03 AM by Flat Tire

OU didn't know
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RE: Peden Expansion

Posted: 8/25/2012 10:37:37 AM

Recovering Journalist wrote:

The Optimist is really earning his name with this idea. Shouldn't we figure out how to fill the current stadium before worrying about more capacity? I know things have been going well for a few years, but it hardly makes for a solid tradition. I'd much rather see upgrades in the current configuration than 10,000 likely empty seats. The current bathrooms are terrible, and the concession areas aren't much better. Even if all the new seats got filled for all five or six annual home games, there would be very little to ROI on the cost of the project given our $0.00-$4.95 ticket prices. The things that keep Ohio from being sought after by "big time" conferences have nothing to do with the capacity at Peden.

Before the school commits to any major football spending, it seems like it would be wise to figure out what the hell is going to happen to FBS football in the next few years. The changes already happening have been rapid, and the funding pressure on non-AQ public schools -- all of which lose money on football -- is enormous. This is simply not realistic.

The problem is that if you wait until you legitimately need more seating, then it's already too late. I'd definitely be in favor of knocking down the corner sections and squaring it off as others have mentioned. Though I'm sure people wouldn't like the association, knocking down the corners and putting in an end zone section such as the one that O$U has for their student section would be a great move. Then, you could either move the student section to the endzone or make it "premium" type seating.

I think this makes more sense as it would still leave the option open for adding another level around the entire stadium. It'd also be really cool if they could add some sort of an observation deck / beer garden that looked over Peden and West Green to give the stadium something unique.

That being said, the bulk of the money is going to have to come from one large private donation or a few big ones combined together. I just can't see stadium expansion going through otherwise.

bigtillyoopsupsideurhead
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RE: Peden Expansion

Posted: 8/25/2012 12:04:46 PM

Before we talk about expansion, would it hurt to upgrade the bathrooms to something that resembles the 21st century? The troughs have to go.

Last Edited: 8/25/2012 12:05:54 PM by bigtillyoopsupsideurhead

The Optimist
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RE: Peden Expansion

Posted: 8/25/2012 2:59:33 PM

bigtillyoopsupsideurhead wrote:

Before we talk about expansion, would it hurt to upgrade the bathrooms to something that resembles the 21st century? The troughs have to go.

Concourse/restrooms/concessions absolutely need upgrades. The concourse is just too dark. The concourse at Infocision is awesome. Akron really did it right.

I've seen crazier things happen.

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