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Topic: This offense

Topic: This offense

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C Money
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Member Since: 8/28/2010
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This offense

Posted: 12/28/2012 2:23:37 PM

I like it.

perimeterpost
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RE: This offense

Posted: 12/28/2012 3:42:07 PM

it's September in Shreveport.

MY STATE. MY TEAM.

Pataskala
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RE: This offense

Posted: 12/29/2012 9:49:25 AM

BGSUcks, BSU and Kent (and maybe NIU) should be feeling lucky that they didn't face THIS team this season.

We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

L.C.
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RE: This offense

Posted: 12/29/2012 9:57:51 AM

Really only Penn State, New Mexico State, Marshall, and ULM did.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Doc Bobcat
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RE: This offense

Posted: 12/29/2012 10:40:08 AM

L.C. wrote:

Really only Penn State, New Mexico State, Marshall, and ULM did.

Yeah I hated all the anti-TT stuff...and now an insider tells us he was hurt...which was obvious.

Would Vick have won us the games we lost?

Probably not....and most coaches subscribe to the "dance with the date you came with" premise.

I'm just prayin for fewer injuries next year....especially to TT.

mf279801
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RE: This offense

Posted: 12/29/2012 11:52:35 AM

EDSBS tweeted (jokingly) during the game that Frank was the nation's newest air-raid coach. But seriously, I couldn't believe that we threw 3 times in a row on our first drive and (I think) another 3 on our second drive. I was so happy to see us really gashing them with play action off of the pistol, it was so damn effective (and hopefully we keep it up next year)

Pataskala
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RE: This offense

Posted: 12/29/2012 1:00:45 PM

mf279801 wrote:

And it wasn't dinks and dunks. ULM often put 8 or 9 in the box to defend both the run and bubble screens/quick hitters over the middle. Four of the first six passes were 15+ yds downfield in the air. T2 even audibled into the 68-yder to Cochran. Wound up with at least 8 pass plays of 15+ yds. Gives teams a whoooole lot to think about for next year.

We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

L.C.
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RE: This offense

Posted: 12/29/2012 1:24:50 PM

Pataskala wrote:

....And it wasn't dinks and dunks. ULM often put 8 or 9 in the box to defend both the run and bubble screens/quick hitters over the middle. Four of the first six passes were 15+ yds downfield in the air. T2 even audibled into the 68-yder to Cochran. Wound up with at least 8 pass plays of 15+ yds. Gives teams a whoooole lot to think about for next year.

Part of it was having a healthy TT. Another part is that you take what they other team gives you. ULM was overly aggressive about trying to stop the run, and they paid the price. Note that the long passes were all one on one, usually against their safety, and they had no deep help. Beside the 8 plays of 15+ yards, I can think of at least 3 with interference calls where the DB had to interfere to prevent a TD.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Monroe Slavin
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RE: This offense

Posted: 12/29/2012 2:18:34 PM

Yes, it was obvious that ULM was bringing a lot of guys and leaving their db's with little help and, so, match-ups that totally favored us. So, what was the linchpin that allowed us to take advantage?

THE OFFENSIVE LINE. They kicked arse. Look at all the plays on which ULM brought 5, 6, 7 or more guys...and see how our OLINE formed an impenetrable wall.

Yes, very nice to see the coaches adjust by being willing to air it long. Also, in the post game presser (ohiobobcats.com) KMoore twice mentions how we blitzed much more than usual. As some long advocated. So, strat was a big part of it, too.

Two plays that I loved. TT rolled out left for a long completion. Before yesterday, we'd rarely rolled left. (TT got lit up after he waited until the last minute to heave it long.) ......Then, the best was the time that we snapped it before ULM's defense was set. Finally, we took full advantage of go-at-'em, get 'em off balance hurry-up. (Ironically, I think that we muffed the snap on this play so didn't take full advantage. But ya gotta feel--really, you do--that snapping it when the other side's D is still walking to get into position heavily favors success for us.)

Where's the band?!
WHERE"S THE BAND?!

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L.C.
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RE: This offense

Posted: 12/29/2012 3:05:13 PM

Monroe, I completely agree that the Offensive line had a great game. They gave up no sacks, and I don't even remember much pressure on TT. I was amused, actually by one thing. ULM had their corners covering the wideouts, and their safeties covering the guy in the slot. Ohio ran short routes, as in, fake bubble screens, with the wideouts, and went deep with Cochran from the slot, meaning it was the safety on coverage, not a corner.

Yes, the defense blitzed some, but the key was that the rush was a contain-rush, Every player stayed in their lanes, and left the ULM QB nowhere to go. Yes, he occasionally got outside the pocket, but more often than not he'd start one way, someone would be there, he'd try another way, and someone was there, too. It was very well planned and executed.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

mf279801
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RE: This offense

Posted: 12/30/2012 11:57:26 AM

Does anyone (L.C., C Money I'm looking your way) have any thoughts on this question: were all of those play-action passes designed strictly as a "fake handing beau the ball then pull it and throw" or was their a read component to it, making the playaction a part of the read-option, based on what TT saw at/after the snap?

L.C.
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RE: This offense

Posted: 12/30/2012 1:23:14 PM

I'm usually more one that watches the line play than the db's, but the idea behind play action is that it is a called pass all the way. When safeties have "run support" on the brain, the fake to the running back causes the safeties to freeze while they determine if they need to charge up to support the run, or drop back in pass coverage.

I just went back and watched the first part of the game again on ESPN3, and focused on the ULM db's. Number 25 and 31 were the safeties, and usually one was in coverage, and the other had run support/deep support. They were lining up correctly, but were so focused on run support, and being aggressive, that on the fakes to Beau they were either freezing, or actually charging the line, and then they couldn't get back fast enough to be a factor in the pass. On the first pass to Cochran the safety freezes momentarily, just enough to make him too late to be able to help in pass coverage. On the 68 yard pass for a TD it was worse. It was a third down, and he was clearly thinking run, and on the fake he bought it completely, and started charging up. By the time he reversed, he had no chance of helping on coverage, and when Cochran burned the guy covering him man-for-man, it was all over as there was no safety to help.

This isn't an unusual play, by they way, and ULM ran it too. Look at their fourth play of their first drive, and you see Ohio with identical pass coverage, but the safety is over there in time to help. Similarly, on the next ULM drive, if you remember Moore's interception, he was back deep, in support and thus able to pick off the slightly overthrown ball. The difference is that while Ohio's db was also beaten man-for-man on the play, Gerald Moore was thinking pass all the way, so he was in perfect position. Ohio was relying on the front seven to stop runs, so play action had no effect on Moore.

To a certain extent I think Ohio used the TT injury to their advantage. Late in the season TT apparently couldn't throw the ball downfield that well, so Ohio was throwing a lot of short stuff - bubble screens, slants, etc, mixed in with the runs. Ohio correctly guessed that the fact that their offense had been missing the deep threat would cause ULM to be overly aggressive.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

mf279801
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RE: This offense

Posted: 12/30/2012 1:35:37 PM

Thanks LC. Upon further reflection (i.e. Google) I was wondering if some of those play actions were a variation on the packaged plays (stick-draw) described in these two SmartFootball articles
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8287610/packaged-play...
http://smartfootball.com/offense/combining-quick-passes-r...

L.C.
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RE: This offense

Posted: 12/30/2012 2:14:22 PM

Thanks for those articles. If you think about it, those plays are merely a modern variation of an option play, where the QB changes what he does based on how a defender reacts. Rather than being a choice between a handoff to a fullback or a pitch play outside, the choices are a short pass or a draw. As a fan of the option, I like that concept, and I suspect Solich would be a fan of it, too.

No, I don't think that is what we were looking at against ULM, though, at least, not on those plays.. The thing is, after the fake to the Beau, Beau is gone, and if the safety doesn't bite, it's too late to go back and say "i guess I should have given it to him". Instead you're just looking at a situation where TT is reading the safety. Once the safety bites, TT knows that the safety is out of position, and he just has to make the play happen.

Watch the 44 yard pass to Futrell with the score at 17-7. Again a safety (#10) bites hard on the run fake, and now is doomed. Now its just a matter of Futrell breaking free of the man-for-man coverage, but he takes awhile to do it on the pattern, which looked like a slant, then breaking deep. TT has to buy time with his feet, and ends up taking a hit in the process, but TT has already committed to the throw to Futrell, and just has to wait for the right time in the route. The safety, 10, is never in the picture, arriving only after Futrell has been tackled. This is where a good pass rush can/could overcome flaws in defensive coverage, by the way, and also where a mobile QB can help to have enough time to complete the pattern.

Last Edited: 12/30/2012 2:20:10 PM by L.C.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Monroe Slavin
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RE: This offense

Posted: 12/30/2012 2:21:49 PM

Looking at the game re-cap by Russ and Rob on ohiobocats.com:

Russ and Rob both wearing the specatacles and short hair. How long can they hold out against gray hair?

On several plays we did, indeed, use a fake run and then pass. On one of those (first td), we even rolled TT to the left (good since it seemed we almost exclusively rolled left this year).

For next year, we should work on our ball-handling. The fakes to Beau were broad-strokes. We need to be more subtle/adept. Still love that work by BG's qb on the faking that led to a 55 yard td play for them...we blew up their running back who didn't have the ball as their qb kept and hit the long td bomb to their extremely open wideout. Watching a bit of bowl games this weekend, there was some nice 'ball-faking.' Let's put that in.

Also, on T Scott's interception, it looks like he fumbled it and we recovered. He certainly didn't have the ball at the end of the play on the highlight replay.

Final thought...Yes, all the offenses are more sophisticated now in the way that they combine the run/pass options on any one play. Solution: destructive front seven on defense. Physical dominance overwhelms fanciness. 2013 got to be a year in which playmakers happen for us on the D-line and at LB.

Last Edited: 12/30/2012 2:28:56 PM by Monroe Slavin

BillyTheCat
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RE: This offense

Posted: 12/30/2012 10:02:23 PM

mf279801 wrote:

Thanks LC. Upon further reflection (i.e. Google) I was wondering if some of those play actions were a variation on the packaged plays (stick-draw) described in these two SmartFootball articles

At least you are not using EA Sports to learn football. ;-)

Scott Woods
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RE: This offense

Posted: 12/31/2012 7:55:29 AM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

Also, on T Scott's interception, it looks like he fumbled it and we recovered. He certainly didn't have the ball at the end of the play on the highlight replay.

I believe K. Moore recovered the fumble.

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mf279801
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RE: This offense

Posted: 12/31/2012 10:34:18 AM

BillyTheCat wrote:

mf279801 wrote:

Thanks LC. Upon further reflection (i.e. Google) I was wondering if some of those play actions were a variation on the packaged plays (stick-draw) described in these two SmartFootball articles

At least you are not using EA Sports to learn football. ;-)

Hahaha no no, though I did spend several hours last summer trying to incorporate a stick-draw/playaction-option type play into my NCAA2012 play

mf279801
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RE: This offense

Posted: 12/31/2012 10:43:09 AM

L.C. wrote:

No question its a modern variation on the option. Anything to remove a defender from the play without spending a blocker on him is worth trying. But you're correct, those plays were too fast to have had a draw-like component. The only way they would have worked as an option-pass would have been for TT to read an unblocked DT and, if he weren't keying on Beau, hand the ball off and take the HB dive; pull it back to pass/scramble if he were keyed on Beau. [EDIT: that is, the preferred choice on the play would be for BB to take it on the inside run, whereas those plays the goal seemed to be to go mid-to-deep.] Of course that's basically the first read in a triple-option attack, where you take the FB dive if its available. This is in contrast to the TT/BB read-option where (as I understand it), the QB reads the unblocked DE: if the DE is coming for the runningback, QB keeps and runs around him; if the DE is containing the QB, the runningback gets the ball and goes into the gut, for whatever happens.

Last Edited: 12/31/2012 10:46:11 AM by mf279801

C Money
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RE: This offense

Posted: 12/31/2012 5:54:23 PM

mf279801 wrote:

The only way they would have worked as an option-pass would have been for TT to read an unblocked DT and, if he weren't keying on Beau, hand the ball off and take the HB dive; pull it back to pass/scramble if he were keyed on Beau. [EDIT: that is, the preferred choice on the play would be for BB to take it on the inside run, whereas those plays the goal seemed to be to go mid-to-deep.]

Ugh. I do not like leaving a DT unblocked on any play. Bad things happen. Perhaps the only exception is some sort of inside trap, but then he's not really unblocked, he's just not blocked directly.

I think LC is right in that our offense is essentially designed to get the safeties to bite on the run. It's not designed to be a 4 yards and a cloud of dust running game. If it were, we'd have a fullback. It's almost a quick-strike run game, basically read-the-blocking-zones-and-find-the-lane-to-the-second-level-and-try-to-break-the-big-one. If the safeties start cheating up to fill the blocking zones, then we change it up to hit them deep.

One variant of the stick-draw I wouldn't mind seeing in action is an inside run/bubble screen option. I think you could probably run it with a TE & wing and key the SAM or out of the slot and key the DE. It might be too slow developing for the bubble screen to work, though.

mf279801
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RE: This offense

Posted: 12/31/2012 8:32:13 PM

C Money wrote:

mf279801 wrote:

Ya, the timing on that would be tough

BillyTheCat
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RE: This offense

Posted: 1/1/2013 6:50:56 PM

mf279801 wrote:

C Money wrote:

mf279801 wrote:

The only way they would have worked as an option-pass would have been for TT to read an unblocked DT and, if he weren't keying on Beau, hand the ball off and take the HB dive; pull it back to pass/scramble if he were keyed on Beau. [EDIT: that is, the preferred choice on the play would be for BB to take it on the inside run, whereas those plays the goal seemed to be to go mid-to-deep.]

Ya, the timing on that would be tough

Obviously not a fan of any type of option, screen, or veer play then.

We do run and have run several times the little stick-draw run/pass.

Last Edited: 1/1/2013 6:52:39 PM by BillyTheCat

C Money
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RE: This offense

Posted: 1/1/2013 8:26:45 PM

BillyTheCat wrote:

Obviously not a fan of any type of option, screen, or veer play then.

Inside screens and veers? No, I am not a fan of those, because I do not like leaving the QB to take a hit from an unchecked DT. Outside screens and option plays can be run while blocking the DT. And like I said, if you want to punish an aggressive DT, hit him with an inside trap.

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