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Topic: JMU/Liberty to Sun Belt? Does the MAC need to make a move?

Topic: JMU/Liberty to Sun Belt? Does the MAC need to make a move?

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RPKirtland
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JMU/Liberty to Sun Belt? Does the MAC need to make a move?

Posted: 3/31/2013 4:22:55 PM

http://saturdayblitz.com/2013/03/30/james-madison-and-lib.../

This is an interesting development because JMU was rumored at one point to make a possible MAC move. Does the MAC need to make a move to keep relevancy on the FBS level? More importantly, should Ohio set its sights higher?

Went a little too far west, let's go SJ Earthquakes!

catfan28
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RE: JMU/Liberty to Sun Belt? Does the MAC need to make a move?

Posted: 3/31/2013 4:29:43 PM

Is adding 1AA schools really making a move? It seems like the Sun Belt is adding schools just to say "hey, look - we're adding schools too!".

I'm not a fan of shaking things up just for the heck of it. Any additions should be well thought-out and bring something to the table for the MAC.

Chicken George
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RE: JMU/Liberty to Sun Belt? Does the MAC need to make a move?

Posted: 3/31/2013 5:29:15 PM

The MAC reminds me of my 102 year old grandmothers house. Furniture, carpet, clocks, appliances and everything has remained the same since I was a little child. Everyone else is remodeling, but she appears happy just the way she is. She did change out her rotary phone awhile back, but otherwise she's content just the way it has been and is. Whether that's good or bad, I'm not sure?

OhioCatFan
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RE: JMU/Liberty to Sun Belt? Does the MAC need to make a move?

Posted: 3/31/2013 6:30:36 PM

Chicken, I don't know your grandmother, but I'll say that your analogy appears to be spot on. The MAC, unless something changes soon, in terms of realignment, pruning, etc., seems to be locked in a timewarp

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Pataskala
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RE: JMU/Liberty to Sun Belt? Does the MAC need to make a move?

Posted: 3/31/2013 6:36:32 PM

No. Adding the likes of Liberty and JMU does nothing for the MAC and in fact may help bolster its image as a minor conference. I would rather go for somebody like Army (even on a football-only basis).

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colobobcat66
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RE: JMU/Liberty to Sun Belt? Does the MAC need to make a move?

Posted: 3/31/2013 7:40:11 PM

I will be frankly amazed if one of the more forward looking MAC teams in a larger market doesn't leave the MAC In the next few years, probably going to the Big Least. The MAC is a dying conference.

perimeterpost
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RE: JMU/Liberty to Sun Belt? Does the MAC need to make a move?

Posted: 3/31/2013 8:20:03 PM

which of the 5 Little Sisters of the Poor conferences has actually improved because of realignment?

The Big Least? of course not, they used to be in the big leagues and got bumped down to the kiddie table. Lost teams to BCS schools and replaced them with CUSA teams. DOWNGRADE.

CUSA?Nope. Lost teams to BE and replaced them with Sun Belt teams and FCS call ups. DOWNGRADE.

Sun Belt? Nope. Lost teams to CUSA and replaced them with WAC deadwood and FCS call ups. DOWNGRADE.

those 3 conferences have clearly degraded. that leaves the MWC and the MAC. MWC lost 3 good schools (BYU, TCU, Utah) and replaced them with the best remaing WAC schools (SJSU, USU). Slight downgrade, but then when you add in Boise State's return overall MWC stayed about even.

The MAC lost Temple and added UMass. A downgrade, but a slight one.

Overall, by not redecorating Grandma's House the MAC has mantained its property value while the other houses in the neighborhood were foreclosed on after the owners made bad upgrade choices hoping to flip it. The MAC should in no way add any other FCS school under any circumstances.

The only teams the MAC should ever consider adding are the best of the rest that are in our region. In no order, those would be- UC, UConn, Temple, Marshall, Army/Navy. You don't have to point out that none of those schools would want to join the MAC, I get it. My point is, only add programs that would be a step up for the MAC, not a step up for the program. Otherwise, stand pat and let everyone else further degrade themselves.

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colobobcat66
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RE: JMU/Liberty to Sun Belt? Does the MAC need to make a move?

Posted: 3/31/2013 8:45:28 PM

perimeterpost wrote:

Some really good points there, time will tell if the MAC ends up above the other weak conferences in the major sports. Unfortunately, the MAC is still giving away the TV rights so people can see empty stadiums every November, while selling tickets to games for next to nothing, and still averaging less than 15,000 attendence as a conference. I'm guessing that the new FCS schools average more than the existing MAC schools so are they really a step down when compared to the MAC?

Last Edited: 3/31/2013 8:56:17 PM by colobobcat66

TWT
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RE: JMU/Liberty to Sun Belt? Does the MAC need to make a move?

Posted: 3/31/2013 10:34:36 PM

perimeterpost wrote:

Overall, by not redecorating Grandma's House the MAC has mantained its property value while the other houses in the neighborhood were foreclosed on after the owners made bad upgrade choices hoping to flip it. The MAC should in no way add any other FCS school under any circumstances.

I'm wondering if the whole neighborhood has gone down in value with all the FCS call ups. That is 9 new schools promoted to the top level since 2012 with more on the way. They are going to create a lot more competition for non-AQ schools that rely on Florida for recruiting. Without enough talent its going to make the non-AQ leagues very top heavy with the few schools that have their acts together consistently in the Top 25 while its going to be that much harder for the Akron's of the world to break out of their cycle.

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Chicken George
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RE: JMU/Liberty to Sun Belt? Does the MAC need to make a move?

Posted: 3/31/2013 11:44:49 PM

First of all, making moves for the mere sake of making moves, is a waste of time and you may end up getting yourself in a worse situation than you are already in.. Secondly, I have no internal insight in regards to what conversations are taking place within the offices of the Convo or the MAC office. However, as a clueless fan, it does often feel as though the MAC is barely trying to improve itself. You Google search realignment for literally any conference and you at least get some rumors. Whether good, or bad, everyone appears to be trying. On the other hand, you Google MAC and you won't find a single story. Is that good because we're stable? Is that good because there's no drama? Or is it bad that we're not even in the conversation of any of the multitude of teams/conferences trying to reposition themselves for growth opportunities in the future?

I really don't know, but the reason my grandmothers house is the way it is, is because she's content and while she can't try at age 102, she wasn't even trying 30 years ago. Does the MAC have forward thinkers who are constantly trying to push the envelope for a greater future, or are we filled with people who don't won't to rock the boat--collect their mid-level pay for a mid-level mindset and mid-level effort?

Casper71
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RE: JMU/Liberty to Sun Belt? Does the MAC need to make a move?

Posted: 4/1/2013 11:02:18 AM

The Sun Belt seems to be following the MAC of old play book...add to the bottom. As I have said before, I hate that approach. I'd still rather subtract from the bottom and add some middle to upper level schools but it looks like that ain't gonna happen either.

So, please MAC leaders, if you are gonna keep the pretenders please make them at least try harder so they don't take the rest of us down with them...thanks!

BillyTheCat
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RE: JMU/Liberty to Sun Belt? Does the MAC need to make a move?

Posted: 4/1/2013 11:09:28 AM

Casper71 wrote:

Someone will always be at the bottom.

colobobcat66
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RE: JMU/Liberty to Sun Belt? Does the MAC need to make a move?

Posted: 4/1/2013 11:12:42 AM

Yeah, adding schools like James Madison who averaged 22,783 to their games last year would bring down the reputation if the MAC.

Pataskala
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RE: JMU/Liberty to Sun Belt? Does the MAC need to make a move?

Posted: 4/1/2013 12:45:24 PM

colobobcat66 wrote:

Yeah, adding schools like James Madison who averaged 22,783 to their games last year would bring down the reputation if the MAC.

But its another relatively unknown school in the middle of nowhere (I worked in that area for awhile) with a mediocre 1AA team. They did beat VT two years ago, but went on to a sparkling 6-5 record that year. Like Temps, its one of those schools that four years later 3/4 of Ohio students wouldn't know (1) that they were even in the MAC and (2) where the hell JMU is. Even in the state of VA, when it comes to name recognition or following they're probably fifth at best (out of 10 D1 schools) in football behind VT, UVA, Richmond and maybe ODU. I would much rather see the MAC go after 1A schools with some name recognition, like Terd or Army (the Cadets didn't like CUSA a few years ago because of how spread out the conference was and said they weren't interested in a BCS conference), or 1AA schools that students and most alumni would recognize.

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L.C.
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RE: JMU/Liberty to Sun Belt? Does the MAC need to make a move?

Posted: 4/1/2013 1:23:50 PM

Chicken George wrote:

The risk of this strategy is exemplified by my wife's grandmother. She lived to be 99. Nothing ever changed in her house, and she was happy to live there. When the time came that she finally couldn't live there, the house had no worth anymore, and was condemned.

In terms of comparing these conferences, it seems like you could best compare them based on money. In the end how much they can spend of football is going to be a big factor in the long term health of the program. The available money also reflects factors like attendance, stadium size, ticket prices, bowl ties, and TV contracts. I wonder if there is a table somewhere of the athletic budgets of the various schools, where one could then compute the average budget size by conference, after re-alignment?

Last Edited: 4/1/2013 1:26:16 PM by L.C.

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colobobcat66
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RE: JMU/Liberty to Sun Belt? Does the MAC need to make a move?

Posted: 4/1/2013 10:10:58 PM

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/story/2012-... Here's one source that says James Madison has a $31million athletic budget, a lot more than Ohio. A couple other things, at least JM is on an interstate, 2 hours from DC, closer than UMass, I'm guessing.

Monroe Slavin
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RE: JMU/Liberty to Sun Belt? Does the MAC need to make a move?

Posted: 4/1/2013 11:15:10 PM

I think it's pretty remarkable that George's and L.C.'s grandmoms are still playing football at the centenarian triple digit.

Last Edited: 4/1/2013 11:15:33 PM by Monroe Slavin

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RE: JMU/Liberty to Sun Belt? Does the MAC need to make a move?

Posted: 4/2/2013 1:34:04 AM

Unless the teams are competitive out of the gates and have good fan support, I'd say don't add. Regional teams are ones we should stick with. A school from Kentucky or Virginia would be nice. Marshall is still at the top of my list, but I'm uneasy about their track record.

This past year was a great one. Had four teams ranked at different points this season and sent one of them to a BCS bowl, not to mention the wins over AQ teams we racked up. I'm not sure how much change is really needed considering the new playoff format will likely shut out the small schools.

Chasflg
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RE: JMU/Liberty to Sun Belt? Does the MAC need to make a move?

Posted: 4/2/2013 10:47:36 AM

I live about 30 mins from JMU (Harrisonburg), its got a good college town vibe and the locals really seem to support the school. Route 33 runs through Athens and Harrisonburg, if we played each other we could call it the "Rumble on Route 33"...or something like that.

Maryland Bobcat
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RE: JMU/Liberty to Sun Belt? Does the MAC need to make a move?

Posted: 4/2/2013 11:41:19 AM

Adding from the bottom is Buffalo and UMass, and I agree it's something the MAC has a history of. I don't think all FCS "call-ups" as they have been called are adding from the bottom, though. There are some seriously good programs making the leap right now, including App St, Georgia Southern and JMU. These are top-tier, FCS championship-level quality programs, and I've said for a long time the top programs in FCS can easily compete and are probably better than several teams in the MAC. These top-tier FCS programs also have much better fan support than many mid-to-lower tier MAC programs. I think this a winning strategy for the Sun Belt. They are adding quality and quantity to a conference that is already nipping at the heels of the MAC.

Casper71
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RE: JMU/Liberty to Sun Belt? Does the MAC need to make a move?

Posted: 4/2/2013 12:39:38 PM

Maryland, I sorta agree with you. Sun Belt additions are probably better than Buffalo and UMASS, time will tell. Remember EMU was one of those additions way back when. I believe CMU may have won a Small College Championship just prior to entering the MAC. But none of the other additions to the bottom (Ball St and Akron) have consistently added much to the MAC over the years (at least in football).

perimeterpost
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RE: JMU/Liberty to Sun Belt? Does the MAC need to make a move?

Posted: 4/2/2013 1:10:36 PM

this applies not just to the MAC but for all conferences- why in the heck do we want to keep adding more teams to FBS? There aren't any talks of adding more bowl bids, the 1 BCS bowl spot allotted to the 5 Sisters of the Poor has more teams fighting for it now, and eventually if you let enough teams in from a lower segment the teams at the very top (the Chosen 5) might be able to more easily break away all together, leaving the rest of us stuck in a reconfigured FCS league.

I don't like it. I don't want a bunch of teams being added that are worse than Ohio, but I really don't want a bunch of teams being added that could be better than Ohio either.

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BillyTheCat
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RE: JMU/Liberty to Sun Belt? Does the MAC need to make a move?

Posted: 4/2/2013 7:53:56 PM

Casper71 wrote:

Buffalo 1 MAC TITLE, OHIO - 0

OrlandoCat
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RE: JMU/Liberty to Sun Belt? Does the MAC need to make a move?

Posted: 4/3/2013 11:29:06 AM

BillyTheCat wrote:

Casper71 wrote:

Buffalo 1 MAC TITLE, OHIO - 0

Sigh, because MAC titles matter in the grand scheme...

But for what it's worth, you're wrong.

Buffalo - 1 MAC title
Ohio - 5 MAC titles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid-American_Conference

Casper71
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RE: JMU/Liberty to Sun Belt? Does the MAC need to make a move?

Posted: 4/3/2013 1:17:49 PM

Notice the word CONSISTENTLY in my post. Everyone has one lucky season in a blue moon just like everybody tanks once in a while!

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