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Topic:  The MAC's struggle for respect

Topic:  The MAC's struggle for respect
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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  The MAC's struggle for respect
   Posted: 9/19/2013 12:56:58 PM 
2012 was a watershed year for MAC football in the regular OOC season: a respectable 9-19 vs AQ teams and an outstanding 9-3 vs 1A non-AQ schools.

2013, ehhhhh. 

Only 1-17 so far vs AQs, including blowouts against nearly all the MAC teams, and the remaining prospects aren't good.  Only four real possibles for wins:  NIU at Purdue and Buffalo at home vs UConn next week; BSU at UVA in two weeks; and BG at Miss St on 10/12.  But Saturday doesn't look promising (Kent may have a shot at Penn St if Archer plays, but WMU will have to put a lot together to beat Iowa, and there's little hope for UMass vs Vandy and Fiami vs Cincy), and CMU doesn't have much of a chance at NCSt next week.  So the best the MAC can probably hope for is 5-22 vs AQs.  Better than some years, but a real comedown from last year.

Only 5-3 so far vs non-AQs.  Most of the remaining games are winnable, tho: La-Laf @ Akron; Navy @ Toledo; and Kent @ S. Alabama.  Even EMU may have a shot at Army -- EMU won last year at home.  But the MAC teams will have to win all four just to match last year's non-AQ record.

The MAC does well vs non-AQs.  But until it shows it can consistently beat the AQs (Omegas, starting next year) year-in and year-out it'll struggle to get respect from the media and some of the other conferences.

We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.
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colobobcat66
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  Message Not Read  RE: The MAC's struggle for respect
   Posted: 9/19/2013 2:02:47 PM 
Last year seems so far ago. Lets face it, it's tough to keep losing your winning coaches and start over with new ones from outside the system. If they're from the inside, the chances of them being as good or better than who they're replacing, not so good. And coaches that leave for better jobs often take many of their assistant coaches with them.
I'm not sure about the drop off in talent this year, but there's a lot of new QB's, particularly in the east. And Archer, perhaps the second best player in the league behind Lynch, hasn't played much at all, so Kent is way down without him.
And things go in cycles anyway, so maybe last year was just normal variabilty or perhaps it was a total outlier.

Last Edited: 9/19/2013 2:18:53 PM by colobobcat66
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Jeff McKinney
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  Message Not Read  RE: The MAC's struggle for respect
   Posted: 9/19/2013 2:07:56 PM 
When the realignment happens and the MAC is either in a new, third division in between the current BCS and FCS levels, or else becomes FCS, the "struggle for respect" won't matter nearly as much as it does now. 
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: The MAC's struggle for respect
   Posted: 9/19/2013 2:55:54 PM 
The matchups weren't favorable this year. Most of the games had MAC teams as 30+ point underdogs, and you aren't going to win very many of those, though Akron nearly did against Michigan. Align the top MAC teams against the bottom AQ teams and the MAC has a good shot, but when the MAC is playing Ohio State, LSU, Michigan, etc, the MAC isn't going to have a very good winning percentage.

vs. B12  0-2
vs SEC  0-4
vs B1G 1-8
vs AAC 0-3
vs MWC 0-1
vs CUSA 3-2
vs indepen 2-0
vs FCS 6-3

Last Edited: 9/19/2013 4:04:50 PM by L.C.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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brucecuth
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  Message Not Read  RE: The MAC's struggle for respect
   Posted: 9/19/2013 7:09:12 PM 
Jeff McKinney wrote:
When the realignment happens and the MAC is either in a new, third division in between the current BCS and FCS levels, or else becomes FCS, the "struggle for respect" won't matter nearly as much as it does now. 


Amen.
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bobcat28
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  Message Not Read  RE: The MAC's struggle for respect
   Posted: 9/19/2013 9:20:11 PM 
Jeff McKinney wrote:
When the realignment happens and the MAC is either in a new, third division in between the current BCS and FCS levels, or else becomes FCS, the "struggle for respect" won't matter nearly as much as it does now. 


If we think Austin Peay is bad wait until the MAC becomes FCS and we start having home games against Ashland and Urbana. Think students will show up for that? Until then lets do nothing and stay in the MAC and preserve the great rivalries we have with Buffalo and Eastern Michigan.
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colobobcat66
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  Message Not Read  RE: The MAC's struggle for respect
   Posted: 9/19/2013 9:25:00 PM 
bobcat28 wrote:
Jeff McKinney wrote:
When the realignment happens and the MAC is either in a new, third division in between the current BCS and FCS levels, or else becomes FCS, the "struggle for respect" won't matter nearly as much as it does now.


If we think Austin Peay is bad wait until the MAC becomes FCS and we start having home games against Ashland and Urbana. Think students will show up for that? Until then lets do nothing and stay in the MAC and preserve the great rivalries we have with Buffalo and Eastern Michigan.
or we could make it an All-Ohio conference and drop everybody else. You're right on EMU, but I see nothing wrong with moving out of state and have folks like UMass and Buffalo.
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: The MAC's struggle for respect
   Posted: 9/19/2013 10:07:46 PM 
Jeff McKinney wrote:
When the realignment happens and the MAC is either in a new, third division in between the current BCS and FCS levels, or else becomes FCS, the "struggle for respect" won't matter nearly as much as it does now. 


What a strawman argument.  

bobcat28 wrote:
 If we think Austin Peay is bad wait until the MAC becomes FCS and we start having home games against Ashland and Urbana. Think students will show up for that? . . . 


Add Case, Western Reserve (used to be two schools), Miami and a few others and you'd have the old Buckeye Conference, which also for a time included Marshall.  

Back to the future with Jeff and B28 . . . boy the self-hated on this board is enough to keep a hundred shrinks in business for a decade.  

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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ou79
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  Message Not Read  RE: The MAC's struggle for respect
   Posted: 9/19/2013 10:17:37 PM 
Why don't we just drop to D-III and join the Ohio Atheletic Conference where every team we play would be an easy drive in-state.  We could tear down both the Convo and Peden so as not to spend needless dollars on those dinosaurs and just use Athens High School for all our football and basketball needs.  Think of the money the University would save.  Also, all of you who want to keep the program "small time" would be thrilled because D-III is about as low as we can go. 
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Jeff McKinney
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  Message Not Read  RE: The MAC's struggle for respect
   Posted: 9/19/2013 10:32:23 PM 
OCF and 79 are the ones detached from reality.  What I said IS going to happen--guaranteed.  Get ready for it.  

But we won't be playing Urbana or Ashland.  We'll be playing the same basic schedule we are now including one money game a year vs. a major power.  
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Jeff McKinney
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  Message Not Read  RE: The MAC's struggle for respect
   Posted: 9/19/2013 10:49:44 PM 
I checked out the schedule of Northern Iowa, a good FCS program.  They have four non conference games.  They opened at Iowa State and beat them.  Next, they played Drake, the weakest team they'll play all season--they are non scholarship Div. I--they drew 16,000 for the least attractive game of their season.  A lot more a draw than a Urbana or Ashland.  Then, they have Northern Colorado and McNeese State, two respectable large universities.

Plus, remember that when the realignment happens, we will be joined by Sun Belt and most CUSA teams.  We can schedule those schools.  

One of the main differences is that we will be competing to qualify for a post season national tournament.  To me, that's more interesting than playing Utah State in Idaho in a Potato Bowl. 
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bobcat2nc
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  Message Not Read  RE: The MAC's struggle for respect
   Posted: 9/19/2013 11:28:13 PM 
I completely agree with Jeff McKinney.  When tOSU and their ilk finally admitted that they were tired of supporting all the lesser schools and needed to take care of themselves it was telling.  They are going to be playing each other and will not be able to schedule more than one team that is not in what is now the equivalent of the AQ schools.  

That will trickle down so that there will be another level of teams competing for their own national playoff system.  Within that system the teams will only be playing teams of equal level and won't be scheduling the lower level teams.

Teams like OHIO will either have to decide to be the best of their division or decide they want to be in the upper echelon.  That is not going to be easy to do once the playoff system starts.  There will be fewer opportunities to prove that a team can compete at a higher level on a regular basis.

I will be an OHIO fan regardless of what happens but I just don't see the big schools willing to compromise their quest for a National Championship by sharing the wealth or by taking a chance of scheduling somebody that will not add value points to their schedule.  
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: The MAC's struggle for respect
   Posted: 9/19/2013 11:31:53 PM 
Jeff McKinney wrote:
OCF and 79 are the ones detached from reality.  What I said IS going to happen--guaranteed.  Get ready for it.  
. . .  


I'm not sure if we are in presence of Joe Namath ("of guaranteed win fame") or the God of Football.  The last time I heard a statement made with that much certainty and self-righteousness it was a former president saying he didn't have sex with a certain White House intern.  I believe the credibility of both sources to be the same; however, Jeff is an honest man, which is one important difference! 

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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Jeff McKinney
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  Message Not Read  RE: The MAC's struggle for respect
   Posted: 9/20/2013 12:31:45 AM 
My own righteousness or lack thereof had nothing to do with my statement.  It's a result of my own personal assessment of the future of college football.  C'mon, OCF, bloggers and journalists make confident statements like this all the time.  Yeah, I could be wrong, but I doubt it.   

Speaking of Namath...that promise about Super Bowl III was one of the most memorable quotes in sports history.  I was just a kid but I remember it well.
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: The MAC's struggle for respect
   Posted: 9/20/2013 12:44:13 AM 
I won ten dollars on that game, on a one dollar bet with 10-1 odds.  My wager was made before the NFL season started, actually, when I mouthed off at a BBQ in Cowtown and said, I think the AFL is going to win the Super Bowl this year, whereupon a fellow graduate student asked me to put my money where my mouth was and gave me 10-1 odds.  I bet him a dollar.  To his ever-lasting credit, the very next time after the game that I saw him on the bus we both took to campus he came up to me and gave me a nice crisp 10 spot.  I didn't even have to remind him of the bet.  Now, that's an honest man!   

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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Jeff McKinney
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  Message Not Read  RE: The MAC's struggle for respect
   Posted: 9/20/2013 9:11:52 AM 
Pro football was more fun during the rivalry years between the NFL and AFL.  I was an AFL fan.  Favorite QB of all time?  Daryle Lamonica, of course. 
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mf279801
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  Message Not Read  RE: The MAC's struggle for respect
   Posted: 9/20/2013 11:52:10 AM 
Jeff McKinney wrote:
When the realignment happens and the MAC is either in a new, third division in between the current BCS and FCS levels, or else becomes FCS, the "struggle for respect" won't matter nearly as much as it does now. 


This is actually counter to what some pretty wise people are saying...I want to say Dennis Dodd, but my mind might be mistaken on that. He also hears/feels that a formal splitting of Division 1 is coming, but not between AQ/non-AQ. Rather, he alleges that the formal split will be between Division 1A and 1AA (the new division monikers are dumb, and I try not to use them). That financial gap between AQ and non-AQ is far smaller than the gap between non-AQ and 1AA, while such a split would also provide the necessary opponents for the AQ schools to continue to play 8-9 home games a year and would at least provide the possibility of maintaining the current bowl setup.
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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: The MAC's struggle for respect
   Posted: 9/20/2013 12:37:20 PM 
mf279801 wrote:
Jeff McKinney wrote:
When the realignment happens and the MAC is either in a new, third division in between the current BCS and FCS levels, or else becomes FCS, the "struggle for respect" won't matter nearly as much as it does now. 


This is actually counter to what some pretty wise people are saying...I want to say Dennis Dodd, but my mind might be mistaken on that. He also hears/feels that a formal splitting of Division 1 is coming, but not between AQ/non-AQ. Rather, he alleges that the formal split will be between Division 1A and 1AA (the new division monikers are dumb, and I try not to use them). That financial gap between AQ and non-AQ is far smaller than the gap between non-AQ and 1AA, while such a split would also provide the necessary opponents for the AQ schools to continue to play 8-9 home games a year and would at least provide the possibility of maintaining the current bowl setup.


A couple months ago the Big Tenfinity office strongly encouraged its members to stop scheduling 1AA teams, largely because of the expansion of conference play to 9 games.  Even though it takes away a guaranteed home game (a necessity for teams with five conference road games) they're concerned about the affect on strength of schedule as we move into the playoff era.  Plus a win doesn't do them much good while a loss would be devastating.  The same might happen to some of the lower "group of 5" (I like to call them Deltas after the frat on "Animal House") conference teams that are at or near the bottom of everybody's ranks year after year.

We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: The MAC's struggle for respect
   Posted: 9/20/2013 12:57:49 PM 
Jeff McKinney wrote:
When the realignment happens and the MAC is either in a new, third division in between the current BCS and FCS levels, or else becomes FCS, the "struggle for respect" won't matter nearly as much as it does now. 


And when it does happen, the MAC office is going to either look like geniuses by standing pat and not realigning anyone, or really stupid by standing pat and not realigning anyone.
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Ohio69
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  Message Not Read  RE: The MAC's struggle for respect
   Posted: 9/20/2013 1:38:39 PM 
brucecuth wrote:
Jeff McKinney wrote:
When the realignment happens and the MAC is either in a new, third division in between the current BCS and FCS levels, or else becomes FCS, the "struggle for respect" won't matter nearly as much as it does now. 


Amen.


And, we should just drop football and go with futbol. 

Interest will wane.  And scarlet and grey will creep back onto campus and court street.

Actually, we should just drop to division 3, and serve beer, have $5 tickets, and just make it a fun small college experience and care not about the result.





Last Edited: 9/20/2013 1:41:06 PM by Ohio69

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

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bobcat2nc
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  Message Not Read  RE: The MAC's struggle for respect
   Posted: 9/20/2013 2:26:54 PM 
Ohio69 wrote:
brucecuth wrote:
Jeff McKinney wrote:
When the realignment happens and the MAC is either in a new, third division in between the current BCS and FCS levels, or else becomes FCS, the "struggle for respect" won't matter nearly as much as it does now. 


Amen.


And, we should just drop football and go with futbol. 

Interest will wane.  And scarlet and grey will creep back onto campus and court street.

Actually, we should just drop to division 3, and serve beer, have $5 tickets, and just make it a fun small college experience and care not about the result.





I would not say we should give up but I do say that OHIO and other teams will have to decide whether to step up (and then figure out how to get the resources to do it) or decide to make a competitive system at a different level.  The hazard is certainly there that tOSU will creep back into the campus and court street but  I would suggest that it has never slipped out and that all things tOSU will be bigger that we will ever have the resources to overcome.  
 Call me a cynic but the move for a playoff is not as much about naming a "true" national champion as it is about putting as money into the pockets of those that are already collecting the most revenue.  They are not interested in sharing the wealth to build up those who are not already there.  

There is wishful thinking and then there is reality.  Are we coming close to selling out just because we are more competitive now?  Maybe it is because the students get in for free and many of the season tickets sold are the family package tickets with a cost of less than $5 per  ticket per game.  Kids day? Veteran's Day, Band day?  Getting more people to Peden is a start but eventually the athletic department will have to try to get more money per ticket.  Will they have done enough to keep those people who have bought tickets on the cheap?  I am not convinced.  I think OHIO is getting the excitement and support it gets because we are "Good for what we are".  Not my words but the words of those who think it is a travesty that I do not fly a scarlet and gray flag because I live in Ohio. 

I disagree with these people but I am in the minority as are most people who are on this board when it comes to how strongly we support and feel about OHIO.  Just my Humble Opinion





Last Edited: 9/20/2013 2:30:56 PM by bobcat2nc
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: The MAC's struggle for respect
   Posted: 9/20/2013 6:35:39 PM 
The reality is, the last I heard, that OHIO will get money from the playoff system, to the tune of $1 million a year if we can someone -- EMU or UMass are my choices, with a preference for EMU.  The MAC, C-USA, Sun Belt, etc. will each get a maximum of $12 million to split among conference teams playing football.  If you've got 13 teams the split will make each team's take less than a million.  If you have less than 12 teams you'll only get one million per team.  Of course, none of this applies to the power conferences, they will still play by different rules.  But, that was what I last heard was in line for the Gang of 5 conferences, as well as the "Consolation BCS Bowl", if all the universities sign off on the no anti-trust suite agreement.  

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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