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Topic: Forget play calling

Topic: Forget play calling

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LoganElm_grad09
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Forget play calling

Posted: 11/5/2013 10:53:38 PM

I know there's going to be people here saying that the playcalling was terrible, and I'm inclined to agree. But let's face the facts here.

We are not a tough team. Their offensive line is manhandling our defensive line. Brandon Oliver is looking like Barry Sanders. And what the heck is going on with our offense? We're not giving Tettleton enough time and not getting any push up front. Heck, even when he has had time he has had several bad throws.

This is not a game about playcalling. It's about toughness.

BillyTheCat
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RE: Forget play calling

Posted: 11/5/2013 10:55:24 PM

LoganElm_grad09 wrote:

I agree, we are being pushed around.

Pataskala
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RE: Forget play calling

Posted: 11/5/2013 10:58:42 PM

It's about size, too. Their O line is 300+ at each position, and that has given us problems all season long. Only Kent has that kind of size among the teams left on our schedule, but they don't have the talent Buffalo does. Also, not having Donte available in the second half -- he's only been in as a decoy -- has really hurt.

We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

LoganElm_grad09
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RE: Forget play calling

Posted: 11/5/2013 11:04:01 PM

Pataskala wrote:

You are 100% correct on this.

But there are things you do to negate that. Blitzing helps. It puts your secondary and backers in coverage in a predicament, but you can't let a team run you up and down the field because you will certainly lose unless it's a shootout. You put yourself in a better position if you have enough pressure to negate a size discrepancy like that. I would think it would give you pressure on the quarterback too.

It would also help if some offense would show up.

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Forget play calling

Posted: 11/5/2013 11:56:06 PM

Adding new stuff from game to game? No. Same old Ohio from game to game.

Mid-game adjustments? Apparently not.

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WHERE"S THE BAND?!

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OhioCatFan
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RE: Forget play calling

Posted: 11/6/2013 12:56:09 AM

LoganElm_grad09 wrote:

It puts your secondary and backers in coverage in a predicament, but you can't let a team run you up and down the field because you will certainly lose unless it's a shootout. . . .

This is what really puzzles me about this team . . . our lack of scoring. That our D is young, inexperienced and not good at the moment, I get. What I don't understand is why we can't score more against anybody but creampuffs. I kind of thought that this game might be a shootout, but they shot down the field and we shot ourselves in the foot. It seems to me that TT's one dimensionality is a big part of it. Is he hurt again? I think Vick deserves a chance to start. It probably won't happen, but for some reason TT just won't run the ball and so the D can key on the RB -- particularly on first down (and second) when we rarely ever throw the ball. I announcers even said, and I think they were right, that TT audibled out of a pass and gave the ball to Beau on the 3rd and goal at the end of the 1st half. He seems to like to audible Beau up the middle. I think, from what I can observe, and I'm not the greatest at seeing these things, that a large number of the "Beaus up the middle" (maybe a quarter of them) are one dimensional option plays and not called runs. Why? It looks to me like TT is almost afraid to run. Vick, on the other hand, seems to relish running. There's something in this picture that just doesn't seem to fit. Hope Frank can figure it out, because I sure can't. GO OHIO! BEAT BG!

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Monroe Slavin
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RE: Forget play calling

Posted: 11/6/2013 3:42:44 AM

Also, our O-line ain't so good at this point.

Which is a reason that I've advocated two back sets and hurry up offense. The former means the D can't key on one running back, can't be sure who'll get the ball on a run. Ignoring the latter is like a pitcher only throwing one pitch.

Why didn't we try Power Tim Edmond..espec paired with one of the other backs..in prime time?

Our offense is rather bland.

Last Edited: 11/6/2013 3:43:06 AM by Monroe Slavin

OUVan
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RE: Forget play calling

Posted: 11/6/2013 9:07:01 AM

The read option is useless if the quarterback hands it off every single time.

oucs 1986
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RE: Forget play calling

Posted: 11/6/2013 9:17:27 AM

OUVan wrote:

The read option is useless if the quarterback hands it off every single time.

+1.

Needs to keep it at least half the time.

Go Bobcats!

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Forget play calling

Posted: 11/6/2013 9:58:10 AM

We run the read option? Doesn't look to me like those are anything but straight handoffs.

L.C.
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RE: Forget play calling

Posted: 11/6/2013 3:25:39 PM

OhioCatFan wrote:

This is what really puzzles me about this team . . . our lack of scoring. That our D is young, inexperienced and not good at the moment, I get. ...

I disagree. While the defense is young, it is improving, and has been all year. I thought Ohio's defense played their best game of the year last night. I thought they played exceptionally, particularly the center of the defense. Unfortunately the offense wasn't able to sustain any drives. so the defense was on the field too much, and got worn down. They only gave up 156 yards in the first half, and half of that was on one drive. Buffalo's offense had to ball 8 times, and managed to score only 1 time.

The problem in this game was not the defense. Had the offense managed to sustain some drives, and score some points, I think the defense would have held up just fine. I suspect that the bizarre calls by the refs took some of the fight out of them too, which is something they need to not let happen.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

OhioCatFan
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RE: Forget play calling

Posted: 11/6/2013 3:39:56 PM

OK. L.C., I see your point. And, I agree that the defensive would probably have played better in the second half had it not been for some of those blown calls that cost us probably at least 16 points (for UB) and (7 for OU). That alone would have made the score something like 16-10 in favor of UB in the 4th Qt., much more manageable than it turned out to be. On the other hand, against CMU our defense was not worn out, the O had a decent amount of possession time, but we still couldn't stop their best runner. Last night I thought we made Oliver look like Ray Rice. Our run defense does not seem as stout as in some years in the recent past.

Steve
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RE: Forget play calling

Posted: 11/6/2013 3:47:01 PM

Unfortunately, last night wasn't the first time our defensive line has been pushed all over the place. And it's even worse when the other team has a back like Oliver.

MonroeClassmate
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RE: Forget play calling

Posted: 11/6/2013 4:16:54 PM

I agree with LC. Overnighting in Buffalo, I got the morning paper. They pointed out that the Bulls didn't beat a patsy, pointing out that the Ohio D only gave up ONE first down in the first quarter.

Give Ohio two TD's by the middle of the 3rd and Buffalo's hole sceme may have been quite different. When the Bulls got that run going then they tossed in some perfectly timed passes--it took Buffalo 2.5 quarters to establish that running game. The Ohio offense gave them the luxury of being able to continue to hammer away. Ohio moving the ball with regularity may have led to a less man handling by the Bulls.

Pretty good pressure on their QB in the first period and than the kid got all day thereafter--time to try some different stunts up front to get to the kid once or twice?

L.C.
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RE: Forget play calling

Posted: 11/6/2013 4:21:19 PM

Steve wrote:

Unfortunately, last night wasn't the first time our defensive line has been pushed all over the place. And it's even worse when the other team has a back like Oliver.

That's just the point - the defensive line was NOT pushed all over the place, at least, not in the first half. They changed defensive strategy somewhat, and they were not crashing the DE's and going for sacks. Instead they were plugging up at the line, as they did last year. The result was no sacks, but it also was very effective in the first half at stopping Buffalo. Buffalo had only 1 score in 8 possessions in the first half. There were only a handful of plays in the first half where Oliver gained over 3 yards. Two of those were on the TD drive, and two others were meaningless gains either on 3rd and long, or with the clock about to run out.

In the second half, the defense did get worn down, or emotionally down, and neither should have happened. I hesitate to blame the Ohio strength program, though, because so many of these players are new to the program. Sayles, Basham, McLeod, and Tautiaiki are all new this year, while Kendrick Smith and Laseak have both been around only a year. Partly the problem is a dead spot in recruiting for defensive line in that the 2009 defensive linemen were Carl Jones (gone in 4 years, no redshirt) and John Taylor, who has never played, and the 2010 linemen were Jamal Tarrant and Kyle Kozak, who have left the program.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

OhioStunter
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RE: Forget play calling

Posted: 11/6/2013 4:23:17 PM

oucs 1986 wrote:

OUVan wrote:

The read option is useless if the quarterback hands it off every single time.

+1.

Needs to keep it at least half the time.

L.C.
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RE: Forget play calling

Posted: 11/6/2013 4:44:01 PM

I do agree that if the handoff is automatic, the running game needs to be re-evaluated, and they need to move away from read-non-options. There are plenty of other ways to run the ball, including direct handoffs, fullback leads, pitch sweeps, and reverses.

I still want to see Ohio running my old favorite play, which I think they call an inside counter-play. Line Beau up as usual, run him in power sweep action. Line a back up in the slot, say Daz, or perhaps Dovell. QB fakes the pitch outside, then hands to Daz going the inside, but instead of taking a wide angle like a reverse, he goes inside of TT, and cuts into the center of the line. The DE on the offside has to hold the outside against a reverse, while the Dline on the near side has to respect the power sweep, so you end up with the D-line split open in a scissors action.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Forget play calling

Posted: 11/6/2013 4:53:34 PM

I like the design of that run, L.C.

But I disagree about our defense last night. It's true that the O couldn't get it going. But a game is four quarters. And Beefs D did their job the whole game last night. In contrast, by mid third quarter we were getting blown off the ball. There were a lot of plays on which our d-line got pushed back almost five yards off hte line. It was visually evident domination. At that point, we didn't respond--for the last 1 1/2 quarters.

Even if physically and emotionally in a bad mode, shouldn't we have stacked the box a bit more. Sure, it may have left us open for their passing. But the way that their running game was controlling the whole game, we had to try to do something to stop their running.

I don't think that there've been too many d-line injuries this year, right? This late in the year, the newbies have played some. What makes us think that next year will be much different in terms of our ability to stop big offensive lines from pushing us around?

L.C.
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RE: Forget play calling

Posted: 11/6/2013 5:11:49 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

I...But I disagree about our defense last night. It's true that the O couldn't get it going. But a game is four quarters. And Beefs D did their job the whole game last night. In contrast, by mid third quarter we were getting blown off the ball.
.....
I don't think that there've been too many d-line injuries this year, right? This late in the year, the newbies have played some. What makes us think that next year will be much different in terms of our ability to stop big offensive lines from pushing us around?

Actually, I think you are agreeing, not disagreeing. You agree that we didn't get pushed around in the first half, and that it was mid-way through the 3rd before that happened. That was what I said. You also agree that the problem, as much as anything, was that Buffalo was a good team, and that they played well.

It is an unusual defense that is going to stand up for 4 quarters of pounding. In tough defensive battles, which this was, one defense or the other is going to get worn down. In this game, it was Ohio's defense that was worn down. Were they deflated after the bad calls? Perhaps that was part of it, but another part of it is that so many of these guys are new to Ohio. Next year they will have more time in the system, and will be better conditioned...if the Ohio strength program is effective.

The defensive line has had a few injuries this year, at DE anyway. Branz is out, and Barber has been hurt, too. That means three of the 4 main guys at DE are freshmen - Sayles, Basham, and Laseak. The center of the defensive line has a lot of Sophomores playing, too, in Purdum, Bennett, and Tautuaiki, as well as a couple Freshmen that are redshirting, Porter and Aloese.

My expectations for next year are actually pretty low. Too many good players are leaving, and there are a lot of Freshmen/Sophomores that are a year or two away from their maximum potential. I was hoping for a good finish this year precisely because I think Ohio will be perhaps 8-4 next year.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

L.C.
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RE: Forget play calling

Posted: 11/6/2013 5:24:59 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

I like the design of that run, L.C....

That run was a core play at Nebraska for years. Back in the 1973 Orange Bowl, offensive genius Tom Osborne messed up Notre Dame by inventing an all-new offense just for the bowl game, netting a 40-6 win. He showcased Johnny Rodgers in the game. Nebraska lined up in the usual Power I, but instead of the conventional handoffs to the I-Back, most of the inside power runs were hand-offs to the guy in the slot, Rodgers. From the slot, he ran the ball 15 times for 81 yards and 3 TDs, while the I-back got 11 carries.

Most of the gimmicky offense developed for that game was scrapped after that game, but that inside counter, or inside reverse, remained an effective tool for the offense for all of Osborne's time at Nebraska. Perhaps there are defensive changes that explain why the play is no longer used, but if so, I have no idea what they are. It seems to me that the speedy defenses of today are more able to shut down power sweeps these days, which is why you see less of them. They are also fast enough to adjust to reverses, which take too long to develop. Same for doubler reverses. On the other hand, an inside counter is a quick-hitting play - all the defense needs to do is take one step in the wrong direction, and the line can open a huge hole in the middle, and their speed will not enable them to recover.

Can you even imagine a game where, say, Dovell gets 15 carries? Here are the career rushing stats for Ohio receivers:
Dovell - 0 carries
Foster - 0 carries
Cochran - 1 carry for 11 yards (in 2012)
Waters - 0 carries
S. Smith - 0 carries
L. Smith - 1 carry, 0 yards (in 2012)
Reid - 0 carries
Dixon - 0 carries

Last Edited: 11/6/2013 5:33:54 PM by L.C.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

L.C.
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RE: Forget play calling

Posted: 11/6/2013 7:25:18 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

...Even if physically and emotionally in a bad mode, shouldn't we have stacked the box a bit more. Sure, it may have left us open for their passing. But the way that their running game was controlling the whole game, we had to try to do something to stop their running....

By the way, Ohio was stacking the box. At times Ohio was pulling a Safety and adding an extra DE, using a 53 defense.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

BillyTheCat
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RE: Forget play calling

Posted: 11/6/2013 11:04:11 PM

L.C. wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

This is what really puzzles me about this team . . . our lack of scoring. That our D is young, inexperienced and not good at the moment, I get. ...

With your rational then some of the best defenses we've had we're under Nick Toth during the Cleve and Lichty years. Those guys could play, and sometimes they could play an entire game.

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