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Topic: All-MAC teams

Topic: All-MAC teams

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SBH
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All-MAC teams

Posted: 12/4/2013 2:26:01 PM

I'm guessing you could go all the way back to the days of Tom Lichtenberg without seeing as poor a showing for Ohio on the First, Second and Third All-MAC teams. Zero Bobcats on the first teams for offensive and defensive - incredible.
But we're loaded with talent, right Monroe?

GoCats105
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RE: All-MAC teams

Posted: 12/4/2013 2:30:51 PM

http://www.mac-sports.com/tabid/969/Article/294840/MAC-Announces-2013-All-MAC-Teams-Postseason-Awards.aspx

Paul Graham
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RE: All-MAC teams

Posted: 12/4/2013 4:54:08 PM

But, do those other teams have as strong a "walk-on program" as we do? I bet they don't!

Last Edited: 12/4/2013 4:54:24 PM by Paul Graham

Lande71
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RE: All-MAC teams

Posted: 12/4/2013 4:59:15 PM

Can't expect 1st team performers when you get clobbered like we did. I personally am surprised by the returners making it! Someone may have felt bad for Ohio. I really can't argue w/ the results - can you?

L.C.
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RE: All-MAC teams

Posted: 12/4/2013 4:59:42 PM

First Team:
Kickoff Returns - Devin Bass
Punt Returns - Travis Carrie

Second Team:
Wide Receiver - Donte Foster
Placekicker - Josiah Yazdani
Defensive Back - Devin Bass

Third Team
Defensive Back - Travis Carrie

Preseason, Phil Steele expected:
Tettleton - 2d team (oops)
Blankenship - 2d team (oops)
Foster - 4th team (did 2 better than this)
Lechner - 3rd team (due to injury, played 46% of snaps during MAC)
Prior - 2d team (due to injury, played only 38% of snaps during MAC)
Moore - 3d team (injury and position move may have been factors)
Carrie - 2d team (ended one lower than this)

Paul Graham wrote:

But, do those other teams have as strong a "walk-on program" as we do? I bet they don't!

True, the walkon program has produced some All-Mac players, notably Paul Hershey and Dak Notestine, but this year most of the walkons/former walkons are Freshmen and Sophomores, except Chad Moore, Josh Kristoff, Nic Barber, and Neico Teipel. All did start games, but none played at an all-Mac level. Moore was a possibility, but whether it was due to the position move, or his injury, he didn't have as good a season this year as he did last year.

Last Edited: 12/4/2013 5:42:48 PM by L.C.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

OhioStunter
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RE: All-MAC teams

Posted: 12/4/2013 6:18:32 PM

I remember bringing this up last year.

So I'll bring it up this year.

On one hand, you could praise Solich and staff for a great job in turning "non-stars" (All-MAC players) into a consistently winning team. Maybe instead of a few "stars", this team is full of solid players. Has the coach gotten the best out of his players?

On the other, you could blame Solich and staff for not bringing in better talent that is recognized with first-team all-MAC selections. There is no reason we shouldn't be able to out-recruit in-state rivals Akron, Kent, BG, Toledo. Why are better players going there instead of Athens? Why does BG, with awful facilities and an uninspiring location, have twice as many players recognized as Ohio?

We've always said that national TV games, bowls, Solich, etc. would help recruiting. Well, it's been 9 years, are we getting the players we want?

Team, Total All-MAC Selections (First-Team):
Ball State - 15 (4)
Bowling Green - 11 (4)
Toledo - 11 (4)
NIU - 10 (6)
Buffalo - 7 (5)
Akron - 7 (1)
OHIO - 6 (2)
Kent - 6 (1)
CMU - 5 (1)
Miami - 4 (2)
EMU - 3 (0)
WMU - 3 (0)
UMass - 1 (0)

Paul Graham
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RE: All-MAC teams

Posted: 12/4/2013 6:42:19 PM

L.C. wrote:

Paul Graham wrote:

But, do those other teams have as strong a "walk-on program" as we do? I bet they don't!

I was being sarcastic LC! :)

Bcat2
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RE: All-MAC teams

Posted: 12/4/2013 7:00:57 PM

Paul Graham wrote:

L.C. wrote:

Paul Graham wrote:

But, do those other teams have as strong a "walk-on program" as we do? I bet they don't!

I was being sarcastic LC! :)

Paul, he knew. He just ran with it. Oh, thanks for your service.

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

L.C.
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RE: All-MAC teams

Posted: 12/4/2013 7:22:13 PM

OhioStunter wrote:

...Well, it's been 9 years, are we getting the players we want?

Not until the last couple years was Ohio getting the players they wanted. Each year they sent out ~100-150 offers early, mostly to Ohio players. Each year they got back 1-5 acceptances from that group. Then, in November-January, the coaches scoured the country for talent that had been missed, and brought in players from places like California, Florida and Oklahoma. If you compared head to head battles, you'd find that Ohio generally lost far more than they won. I stopped tracking that in about 2010, though, as it was too much work. This following data does not include players offered by both teams, but which chose some other school, but only includes players that actually chose Ohio, or chose some other MAC school.

As an example, in 2009:
3 players had offers from Ohio and Ball State, and chose one or the other - All to Ball State
7 players had offers from Ohio and Miami, and chose one or the other - 5 to Miami, 2 to Ohio (John Taylor, Skyler Allen)
3 players had offers from Ohio and Toledo and chose one or the other - All to Toledo
4 players had offers from Ohio and BG and chose one or the other - 3 to BG, 1 to Ohio (John Taylor)
3 players had offers from Ohio and Akron and chose one or the other - 2 to Akron, 1 to Ohio (Xavier Hughes)
2 players had offers from Ohio and WMU and chose one or the other - Both to WMU
1 player each had offers from NIU, Kent, CMU, and Temple, and Ohio, and chose one or the other - none to Ohio
Did Ohio beat anyone that year? They won 3-0 over Buffalo (Lechner, Hughes, and Dylan Reda) and 4-0 over EMU (Allen, Hughes, Gary Fortune, Jamil Shaw)

The last two years something very, very different has happened. They sent out their 100-130 offers, and instead of 1-5 acceptances, they got more like 20. Using Ted's Excellent recruiting page (since I don't track this anymore), the data for 2014 looks much, much different. So far:
vs Ball State - Ohio 2, BS 0
vs Toledo - Ohio 4, Toledo 2
vs Maimi - Ohio 1, Miami 0
vs BG - Ohio 5, BG 4
vs Akron - Ohio 4, Akron 0
vs WMU - Ohio 3, WMU 1
vs Kent - Ohio 5, Kent 1
vs U.Mass - Ohio 1, U.Mass 0
vs Buffalo - Ohio 3, Buffalo 1
vs CMU - Ohio 0, CMU 1

Was Ohio getting the players they wanted? No. Is Ohio now getting the players they want? Yes. They pretty much only lose to BCS teams now.

Paul Graham wrote:

I was being sarcastic LC! :)

HeeHee, I know, Paul. I couldn't resist pulling your leg back.

Last Edited: 12/4/2013 7:28:02 PM by L.C.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Paul Graham
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RE: All-MAC teams

Posted: 12/4/2013 7:54:45 PM

L.C. wrote:

The last two years something very, very different has happened. They sent out their 100-130 offers, and instead of 1-5 acceptances, they got more like 20. Using Ted's Excellent recruiting page (since I don't track this anymore), the data for 2014 looks much, much different. So far:
vs Ball State - Ohio 2, BS 0
vs Toledo - Ohio 4, Toledo 2
vs Maimi - Ohio 1, Miami 0
vs BG - Ohio 5, BG 4
vs Akron - Ohio 4, Akron 0
vs WMU - Ohio 3, WMU 1
vs Kent - Ohio 5, Kent 1
vs U.Mass - Ohio 1, U.Mass 0
vs Buffalo - Ohio 3, Buffalo 1
vs CMU - Ohio 0, CMU 1

Was Ohio getting the players they wanted? No. Is Ohio now getting the players they want? Yes. They pretty much only lose to BCS teams now.

Excellent LC! Who can argue with that? Lets hope we start to see the results on the field.

L.C.
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RE: All-MAC teams

Posted: 12/4/2013 8:07:09 PM

I decided to see who Ohio is losing recruiting battles to (since they are not losing too many to the MAC anymore). You can tell a lot about the level of talent they are after not only by who they beat, but who they are losing to:

ACC - 30 lost (Louisville 6, Duke 4, UNC and Virginia 3, Wake Forest Syracuse BC Vir Tech Pitt 2 each, Flor St Maryland NC St Ga Tech 1 each)

Big Tenfinity - 22 lost (Ohio St and Indiana 4 ea, Nebraska Mich 3 each, Illinois Mich St Iowa 2 ea, Northwestern Purdue 1)

SEC - 15 lost (Kentucky 7, Vandy 3, Alabama 2, Tenn Georgia and Missouri 1 each)

MAC - 10 lost (BG 4, Toledo 2, WMU 2, Kent 1, CMU 1)

CUSA - 6 (Tulsa 2, FAU UAB UTSA ODU each 1)

PAC 12 - 4 lost (Stanford 2, UCLA 1, Arizona 1)

Big 12 - 4 lost (West Virginia 2, Okahoma and Iowa St 1 each)

Sunbelt - 2 lost (Texas State and Ga St 1 each)

Others - 3 lost (Notre Dame Harvard and App State 1 each)

Last Edited: 12/4/2013 8:13:52 PM by L.C.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

perimeterpost
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RE: All-MAC teams

Posted: 12/4/2013 8:43:28 PM

good info LC.

Wonder why OU/BG split is so close at 5/4, is it just an anomaly or is there something specifi about BG that gives them an edge (Clawson, etc.). Or I wonder if you played all of these out to 9+ recruits would you see more of a 50/50 split.

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L.C.
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RE: All-MAC teams

Posted: 12/4/2013 9:04:52 PM

perimeterpost wrote:

..Wonder why OU/BG split is so close at 5/4, is it just an anomaly or is there something specifi about BG that gives them an edge (Clawson, etc.). Or I wonder if you played all of these out to 9+ recruits would you see more of a 50/50 split.

I have no clue on that, sorry. I'd say that Ohio, BG, and Toledo are all looking at similar talent, and Ohio is winning slightly more than the others at the moment. Let's hope it continues. Some of the other top MAC schools, like NIU, Buffalo and the directional Michigans, are a bit further away, so they cross paths with Ohio a bit less often.

A big question in my mind is why there was such a big change the last two years. For lack of a better reason I'm saying that it's due to the IPF. The only other explanation I can toss out there is the recruiting coordinator change in 2011.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Casper71
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RE: All-MAC teams

Posted: 12/4/2013 9:35:10 PM

Isn't that the problem...we only get average MAC level talent. Sure we coach em up but gawd. I still can't believe a staff led by FS with his background and record can't go after and get better players.

C Money
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RE: All-MAC teams

Posted: 12/4/2013 10:01:14 PM

L.C. wrote:

The only other explanation I can toss out there is the recruiting coordinator change in 2011.

I think's safe to say that Brian Haines does not remain on the staff due to his special teams coordination.

Mike Coleman
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RE: All-MAC teams

Posted: 12/4/2013 10:11:35 PM

C Money wrote:

L.C. wrote:

The only other explanation I can toss out there is the recruiting coordinator change in 2011.

I think's safe to say that Brian Haines does not remain on the staff due to his special teams coordination.

Yet our only first-team All-MAC players were special teams players.

Complicated. Headache.

C Money
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RE: All-MAC teams

Posted: 12/4/2013 10:38:04 PM

Mike Coleman wrote:

C Money wrote:

L.C. wrote:

The only other explanation I can toss out there is the recruiting coordinator change in 2011.

I think's safe to say that Brian Haines does not remain on the staff due to his special teams coordination.

Yet our only first-team All-MAC players were special teams players.

Complicated. Headache.

To be honest, I don't understand those selections. According to the MAC stats, Bass isn't even top 6 in kick return average. The conference doesn't list the stats for top punt returners, but as a team we were #3 in the conference, and Carrie had issues hanging onto the ball on punt returns.

As a team we're middling or worst on just about every special teams category except PATs, where we're in a 5-way tie for first.

OhioStunter
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RE: All-MAC teams

Posted: 12/4/2013 11:52:58 PM

LC, you've come through again. I asked a genuine question and you provide a well-researched answer. Isn't that what Al Gore intended when he invented message boards?

Thanks!

Last Edited: 12/4/2013 11:53:27 PM by OhioStunter

Monroe Slavin
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RE: All-MAC teams

Posted: 12/5/2013 1:11:06 AM

Nice statistical analysis, L.C. (I'm not being sarcastic.)

When you say 'last two years' are you talking about the current first year guys and the supposed class which will come on in 2014....or the classes that come on in 2012 and 2013. If it's the latter, it doesn't seem like the classes have made much mark yet. I know that much more comes out in later years, yet I'd hope at least a short list of those guys would have shown to be of pretty singular talent.

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Paul Graham
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RE: All-MAC teams

Posted: 12/5/2013 1:45:45 AM

C Money wrote:

L.C. wrote:

The only other explanation I can toss out there is the recruiting coordinator change in 2011.

I think's safe to say that Brian Haines does not remain on the staff due to his special teams coordination.

As a long time Haines-basher, I can't disagree. Also, its bizarre that he runs recruiting given that every time I've heard him speak he's completely void of any personality or emotion. Did they give him the job just because Germano left and that was his role?

TWT
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RE: All-MAC teams

Posted: 12/5/2013 2:30:23 AM

L.C. wrote:

perimeterpost wrote:

What about the Potato Bowl victory? That resonated with people. There is a couple year lag in the analysis when H.S. Juniors begin to look at a school in a new light to signing day on a college campus. The ripple effect of the 2009 East title was felt by the 2012 class.

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Bobcatbob
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RE: All-MAC teams

Posted: 12/5/2013 9:56:17 AM

We need to send this notice to the Marshall board. My best memory of that game this year is their WR coach screaming at their guys on the bench (about Bass) "He can't run with you!", "He can't cover you!", "He can't run with you!". Of course he can and he did, pulling in the big pick. You don't know how much fun I had screaming back at the bench "He can't run with you!" over and over.

Congratulations to all our guys but I'll take a little extra pride in Bass' showing because of the misperception he overcame that day.

Rowdy Rufus
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RE: All-MAC teams

Posted: 12/5/2013 11:07:30 AM

How is it that Dri Archer was selected a receiver. Looking at the stats he is 31st in yards in the MAC. 327 yards. Heck, he was 4th best on his own team. Seems he should have been included in the RB's not Receivers.

Rowdy Rufus
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RE: All-MAC teams

Posted: 12/5/2013 11:20:24 AM

Rowdy Rufus wrote:

I did a little more research.
It looks like 12 WR selections were made. Of those 12 there were 10 candidates selected that were in the top 12 in overall yards.
BGSU's had a player left off who was ranked 9th overall and UMASS had a player who was ranked 12th who was omitted.

NIU had a player that had the15th most yards and was selected 1st team. I can see this one given their success. Then you drop all the way down to Archer who was ranked 31st in receiving yards….

I get the NIU selection but not the Archer pick. Seems to me the BG player got screwed because they felt they had to assign Archer a position since he played both RB and WR.

C Money
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RE: All-MAC teams

Posted: 12/5/2013 11:40:23 AM

Rowdy Rufus wrote:

I get the NIU selection but not the Archer pick. Seems to me the BG player got screwed because they felt they had to assign Archer a position since he played both RB and WR.

I can see not holding Archer's statistical ranking against him since he was injured most of the season, but yeah, he's a RB and Return Specialist in most minds, not a WR. And if he makes it in the NFL, it will almost certainly be as a Darren Sproles-type RB/KR/PR. The MAC might actually be doing him a disservice by giving him recognition as a WR, if it causes NFL scouts to analyze him as a WR instead.

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