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Topic: OT: Heisman

Topic: OT: Heisman

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GoCats105
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OT: Heisman

Posted: 12/4/2013 11:41:58 AM

At this point, it's probably Jameis Winston's to lose.

HOWEVER...

...if something comes of this sexual assault allegation, can someone come up with a good reason to not give the award to Jordan Lynch?

Go back and look at the voting in 1989 and 1990, when Andre Ware and Ty Detmer won the award, respectively. No clear-cut favorites those years either and they both were not from traditional power leagues. In my research for about as far as I could dig, Lynch is only the third player to rush for more than 300 yards twice in a single season. The other two were Barry Sanders who had four (which is just insane) and Ricky Williams who did it back-to-back. Both were Heisman winners.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/awards/heisman-1989.html

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/awards/heisman-1990.html

We know Lynch plays in the MAC. But for argument's sake, the MAC has just as many bowl eligible teams as the Big Ten and Mountain West, and has more than the Big 12, AAC or Sun Belt. NIU is headed for their second straight BCS game out of this crap league and has beaten two Big Ten teams to get there. Granted, Purdue is awful, but Iowa is no slouch. They've lost a total of four games to NIU, Ohio State, Michigan State and Wisconsin, whose combined record is 44-4. Iowa made Devin Gardner look like a third grader when they played Michigan.

I'm jumping on the Huskie bandwagon from this point on, and hope Lynch rushes for another 300 against BGSU. Seems like the talking heads may be coming around too... http://espn.go.com/college-football/heisman/

Why not Lynch?

Last Edited: 12/4/2013 11:43:51 AM by GoCats105

The Pessimist
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RE: OT: Heisman

Posted: 12/4/2013 7:56:13 PM

January 2013:

1 pass for TD and 11yards
1 rush for 22 yards

And... the balance of the game:

22 rushes for 22 yards. (1 yard per attempt)
14 of 40 for 165 yards (35%, 4.1YPA)

Everything is relative. He is elite. He owns the MAC. But he doesn't even qualify as pedestrian in the big money leagues... err.. BCS.

Last Edited: 12/4/2013 7:56:40 PM by The Pessimist

perimeterpost
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RE: OT: Heisman

Posted: 12/4/2013 8:34:26 PM

The Pessimist wrote:

we'll at least you're not being overly selective with a narrow set of data points (from last year) to make a point. Because we all know, if a player from a non AQ school even has 1 bad game against an AQ school it means he's not talented enough to EVER do any better against another AQ school ever again.

In 2 games this year against, as you put it, teams from the "big money leagues", Lynch was a combined 43/66 for 482yds, 6 TDs and 0 INTs and 31 carries for 91yds and 1 TD on the ground in 2 road WINS.

But that doesn't fit the same tired, worn out, narrative that successful players or teams in the MAC are only successful because they're in the MAC.

the only thing that is pedestrian is your tired Dr Gee talking points.

Last Edited: 12/4/2013 8:35:24 PM by perimeterpost

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GoCats105
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RE: OT: Heisman

Posted: 12/4/2013 9:42:48 PM

perimeterpost wrote:

The Pessimist wrote:

You beat me to it Perimeter.

If you can't use someone's accolades and great stats from the year before (i.e. Tim Tebow), then you can't count crappy stats in a one game scenario where the other team (FSU) was essentially playing a BCS bowl game at home. And come to think of it, wasn't that with a new coach on the NIU sideline? I believe that was Carey's first game as the head man and Doeren took the NC State job before the game. Not to mention the fact that the FSU defensive line was the best in the country last year and most have either graduated or gone to the NFL.

It was everything working against NIU and Lynch to not make them play well. FSU dominated of course, but that was last year. I guarantee they'll play better in this year's BCS game, depending on the competition. Most outlets are saying Oklahoma State. I'd put money on the Huskies to keep it close in that game.

Last Edited: 12/4/2013 9:44:16 PM by GoCats105

perimeterpost
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RE: OT: Heisman

Posted: 12/4/2013 10:19:30 PM

its not even a matter of new coach, home field, etc. its just that in the game of football things happen, thats part of what makes it exciting. One game is just one game. Now if they lost 4 BCS bowl games...

I use the example of Notre Dame when people say NIU doesn't "deserve" another chance to play in a BCS Bowl after last year, or it proves that any MAC should never get a chance, etc.

Notre Dame is 0-4 all time in BCS Bowls, the final scores were-
42-14
41-14
34-20
41-9

NIU's one BCS bowl-
31-10 (NIU's defense was better than every ND defense, btw)

3 of those 4 ND losses rank in top 10 largest blowouts in BCS bowl history. Using the same sweeping judgment used against NIU there's no way in hell ND should ever be allowed in a major bowl ever again.

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The Pessimist
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RE: OT: Heisman

Posted: 12/4/2013 10:50:13 PM

I don't have a vote. But those who do, I bet, will remember that game. It could be the only game of his that they've seen outside ESPN highlights and box scores.

Most of the voters are of AQ pedigree. They certainly have some interest in keeping the award within their own ranks. At the very least, they have a bias to do so. The former winners didn't win the Heisman by racking up stats in the MAC. You don't see drone pilots and cybersecurity soldiers earning Medals of Honor or becoming legends. It's a different league. You do what you do, you excel at it, you get recognition, but you know when you sign up that you're not competing at the same level as Alvin York, Audie Murphy, Thomas Hudner, Custer, Roosevelt, or Patton.

You asked why not Lynch. That's why.

Would it be great for the MAC to have the 2013 NFL Draft #1 pick and the 2013 Heisman winner? Of course. But would a pessimist think that is actually going to happen?

OhioStunter
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RE: OT: Heisman

Posted: 12/5/2013 12:04:26 AM

And since that game, neither team has lost.

OhioCatFan
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RE: OT: Heisman

Posted: 12/5/2013 11:48:22 AM

Last year many folks on here, right up to the day the last BCS poll was released, were saying that there was no way in hell that the big boys were going to allow a poor MAC school into one of their BCS bowls. Well, it happened, over the objections of the chattering class, including our beloved Jerkstreet. While I'm not predicting Lynch will win the Heisman, I will say that stranger things have happened. The problematic Winston situation makes a strange thing, perhaps, a little less strange this year.

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Pataskala
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RE: OT: Heisman

Posted: 12/5/2013 12:09:51 PM

The knock on Lynch will be the same as Bridgewater and O$U's Miller face: soft opposition. NIU's MAC opponents were combined 36-60 (36-52 if you don't count their game vs NIU), its three D1A opponents were 10-26 (10-23) and its 1AA opponent was 11-1 (11-0). Overall NIU's opponents were 57-87 (57-75) but the D1A opponents were 46-86 (46-75). Some -- particularly the AQ snobs -- may discount his stats because of this.

BTW, USAT's Heisman survey has him at #2 this week behind Winston.

Last Edited: 12/5/2013 12:25:47 PM by Pataskala

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Tyler
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RE: OT: Heisman

Posted: 12/5/2013 2:45:45 PM

No charges will be filed against Winston. Now that it's all cleared up, it looks like he'll remain the frontrunner heading into championship weekend.

cc-cat
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RE: OT: Heisman

Posted: 12/5/2013 3:48:16 PM

A recent ESPN projection (based on a poll of voters) had Lynch finishing second.

The Pessimist
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RE: OT: Heisman

Posted: 12/6/2013 11:38:03 PM

And then there's the MACC performance too.

Pete Chouteau
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RE: OT: Heisman

Posted: 12/7/2013 7:55:50 AM

Lynch certainly benefits from being heard of but not seen for the most part. But, geez, if last night is a true reflection of how his spiral looks... Duck says Qvawk... then I don't think he is or was the best college football player of the season.

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