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Topic: OT - I'm addicted to reading WMU's message board

Topic: OT - I'm addicted to reading WMU's message board

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Paul Graham
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Location: The Plains, OH
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OT - I'm addicted to reading WMU's message board

Posted: 10/9/2013 6:50:14 PM

I thought I would share a recent passion of mine...going over to Bronco Stampede (not far off from a Bobcat Attack) which is located here: csnbbs.com/forumdisplay.php and watching them squirm while PJ Fleck systematically dismantles their football program with wild eyed, Tony Robbins'esque enthusiasm.

Nearly everyday Fleck manages to do something narcissistic and/or insane. For instance, take his team a couple hours out of the way (on their road trip to Iowa) so they can visit and workout at *his* old high school!!! Nothing he does makes sense...he's playing by a completely different set of rules.

Oh, and he's 0-6.

Last Edited: 10/9/2013 6:51:22 PM by Paul Graham

L.C.
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RE: OT - I'm addicted to reading WMU's message board

Posted: 10/9/2013 7:12:35 PM

Very odd. The "Fire Fleck" thread is 33 pages long. Meanwhile Rivals.com has his recruiting class ranked at #39 in the country, ahead of schools like Northwestern, Nebraska, West Virginia, and Oregon. Scout has them at 37, which would put them 6th in the Big Tenfinity.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Paul Graham
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RE: OT - I'm addicted to reading WMU's message board

Posted: 10/9/2013 7:26:28 PM

L.C. wrote:

Well, if you read the board he's done so many strange things he's lost a good chunk of the fans. The recruiting is strong...though they just had a guy de-commit today. And people are guessing more will follow.

Pataskala
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RE: OT - I'm addicted to reading WMU's message board

Posted: 10/9/2013 8:26:57 PM

If they were winning, he'd be a "character"; but they're losing, so he's just nuts.

We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

L.C.
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RE: OT - I'm addicted to reading WMU's message board

Posted: 12/5/2013 5:54:58 PM

In other news, it seems that to make room for all his best-of-MAC recruits, Fleck apparently told 7 current players they were losing their scholarships this week. There are times when a player doesn't try, and in that case it seems justified to pull his scholarship, but seven players at once seems like a lot. If it's just a matter of the kid not being as good as they thought, it seems like the risk should be on the school, not the kid.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

JSF
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RE: OT - I'm addicted to reading WMU's message board

Posted: 12/5/2013 6:24:08 PM

Someone on the Miami board once asked why it's OK for academic scholarships to be pulled for students who aren't up to snuff but not OK for athletic scholarships to be pulled for athletes who aren't up to snuff. Fair question, I think.

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

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OhioStunter
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RE: OT - I'm addicted to reading WMU's message board

Posted: 12/5/2013 6:32:52 PM

Fair question indeed. But academically, the student has nearly 100% control over how he/she studies/performs. So if a 3.0 is the standard, that's what you work toward achieving.

Athletically, the lines are blurred. What is the standard needed to keep an athletic scholarship? 10 PPG? 2 TDs? No safeties at the 4 yard line? And how could a student-athlete meet those standards if they don't control playing time?

Last Edited: 12/5/2013 6:33:24 PM by OhioStunter

L.C.
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RE: OT - I'm addicted to reading WMU's message board

Posted: 12/5/2013 6:47:46 PM

JSF wrote:

A person doesn't win an academic scholarship if they don't have the capability of succeeding. If they fail, then that is most likely an indication of a lack of effort. Certainly the school should investigate the situation before pulling it to make sure there wasn't some unusual circumstance involved.

In athletics the same principle applies, but there are more complication factors. If a player simply doesn't try, he should be treated like the person failing academically, and have the scholarship pulled. But, let's look at a couple other situations, situations that are different than you are likely to run into with an academic scholarship:
1. Suppose you have a coach running a triple option offense, and a new coach is hired, and he wants to run a spread. Is it OK for him to pull the scholarships on the run-blocking linemen, and the fullbacks, when the players themselves did nothing wrong?
2. Suppose a player is hurt in practice, and he attempts to rehab it, but it continues to nag at him, and regardless of his efforts at rehabilitation, he is never able to contribute. Should he lose his scholarship?

To me, in the end, the primary difference is this - With academic scholarships there are easy ways to measure things, like, say, requiring the maintenance of at least a "B" average. There are also no specific limits on how many academic scholarships can be issued, and therefore no ulterior motives for pulling them. Therefore it all tends to be pretty clean and above-board. The student knows they didn't have a "B" average, and the school does, too. The consequences are expected, and no one is surprised.

By contrast, in an athletic situation, there are finite limits on how many scholarships can be issued. There are no easy, tangible guidelines where a player can know when he is, or isn't meeting the requirements. Thus, the temptation is there for the coach, in some circumstances, to selectively apply rules, and thus more reason to give the transaction some scrutiny.

Thus, a player might be a "B+" player, yet the coach has a verbal from an A+ player, so he looks around and finds someone to pull the scholarship, someone that was trying his best, and playing to the best of his ability, or, perhaps someone with a nagging injury that his hindering his ability to contribute.

Note - I'm not saying that pulling these scholarships is wrong. Perhaps they dislike the coach, and haven't been attending practice, for example. I'm just saying that it is interesting, and perhaps worthy of more scrutiny, considering that 7 is a very high number to pull in a single year.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Pete Chouteau
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RE: OT - I'm addicted to reading WMU's message board

Posted: 12/5/2013 7:16:56 PM

I wonder if this will bite them in the azz when all these guys fail to graduate and WMU's APR goes in the toilet.

Not that it matters for the Insane Boatswain will be gone by then (regardless of whether it's through success or failure) and it will be some other poor schmuck's job to clean up.

OhioCatFan
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RE: OT - I'm addicted to reading WMU's message board

Posted: 12/5/2013 7:48:03 PM

If I were the czar of college football, I would make all scholarships academic (based on actual scholarship. not need). I know it sounds a lot like Div III and the Ivy League; however, to me this is what all college athletics should be like. What we have now is more like semi-pro college athletics and there are those who want to take the "semi" out and pay college athletes salaries (aka stipends). I know that my ideal isn't going to happen any time soon, but after a few more decades of the current excesses I wouldn't be surprised to see the current system totally collapse.

Clarification: Those otherwise academically qualified without the necessary grades to earn a scholarship could receive financial aid based on need. They would be eligible to try out for athletic teams with the proper GPA after a certain period of time.

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

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Pataskala
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RE: OT - I'm addicted to reading WMU's message board

Posted: 12/5/2013 8:35:41 PM

So if a player's scholly is pulled and he transfers to another D1A school (either on scholly or as a walkon), does he have to sit out a year?

We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

RSBobcat
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RE: OT - I'm addicted to reading WMU's message board

Posted: 12/5/2013 8:54:55 PM

And speaking of spending on athletes - anyone catch this story today in the Dispatch?

www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2013/12/05/books-beat-sports-in-osu-spending-hikes.html

RS Bobcat

L.C.
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RE: OT - I'm addicted to reading WMU's message board

Posted: 12/5/2013 9:31:17 PM

I hate stories like that, where they only give you bits of the data, in this case, only percentage changes, and not absolute dollars. In that case a school that went from 50,000 to 70,000 in spending per athlete would be up 40%, while a school that increased from 200,000 to 260,000 would be up only 30%, so the second school would be doing much better, right? They obviously had the full data, why not just print it?

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

mf279801
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RE: OT - I'm addicted to reading WMU's message board

Posted: 12/5/2013 10:10:05 PM

OhioCatFan wrote:

If I were the czar of college football, I would make all scholarships academic (based on actual scholarship. not need)....

Well, presently college athletic scholarships (for football) are based on neither academics nor need, so...

MedinaCat
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RE: OT - I'm addicted to reading WMU's message board

Posted: 12/6/2013 3:20:28 PM

So does this type of thing happen here? Didn't our last BBall coach recind a scholly then reinstate it(Sayles...I don't know the details)?

L.C.
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RE: OT - I'm addicted to reading WMU's message board

Posted: 12/6/2013 6:33:03 PM

Per Fleck:
Three left to be closer to home
Two were dismissed for violating multiple team rules
Two left in the hopes of finding a better fit and playing time with another program

Apparently he's saying that most of these kids left by their own choice. Ohio has had players leave for all the above reasons, so it's certainly possible.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

bornacatfan
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RE: OT - I'm addicted to reading WMU's message board

Posted: 12/7/2013 8:29:54 PM

MedinaCat wrote:

So does this type of thing happen here? Didn't our last BBall coach recind a scholly then reinstate it(Sayles...I don't know the details)?

Yup.

never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

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