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Topic: K. Mack Combine Profile

Topic: K. Mack Combine Profile

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Bcat2
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K. Mack Combine Profile

Posted: 2/21/2014 5:54:03 PM

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/khalil-mack?id=2543463

2 stars and only one college offer to 6.7 combine rating. This follows last season's success of 2 star/one offer to first pick, Eric Fisher. Finding these types is what recruiting is all about.

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

Monroe Slavin
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RE: K. Mack Combine Profile

Posted: 2/21/2014 6:27:55 PM

Yes, if you look at the last year and a half on the field, our recruiting has been suspect. But that's no reason for you to slam our current recruits.

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Casper71
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RE: K. Mack Combine Profile

Posted: 2/22/2014 12:34:45 AM

I love bcat2's enthusiasm for two star guys. It is true there are some gems that come in with two stars and go out top draft choices. Problem is it is very isolated. Perhaps one or two in the MAC each year for ALL teams. And, it is IMPOSSIBLE for ONE TEAM to have enough of them to win really big. I remember looking at the Top 10 draft choices lasst year and i think except for the MAC lineman they were 3-stars or more.

So, I repeat lets try to start with a whole bunch of 3-star plus guys and coach them up! Then we'll see even more success on the field.

Bcat2
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RE: K. Mack Combine Profile

Posted: 2/22/2014 8:34:08 AM

Casper71 wrote:

You looked at the top ten draft choices. How about we look at the MAC draft picks, Ohio's world. There were six, the first five were two stars, the last one selected, Zac Dysert was three stars. Recruiting in the MAC, stars, should be an afterthought. Find athletes who want to come to Ohio, who have a real upside, who after a few years will still be at Ohio and will have worked hard to become much B,S, & F than they were. Below are the only MAC players drafted. Also I show those invited to the NFL Combine. 2013 draft and 2014 combine we are talking about 15 total, 10 two star and 5 three stars. It seems the best MAC players are not the three stars the big boys don't want, but, the two stars who the services missed.

MAC (Six) 2013 NFL Draft. 5 two star, 1 three star.

1. Central Michigan: OT Eric Fisher (No. 1 overall, Kansas City Chiefs)
2 Star, one offer

72. Kent State: OT Brian Winters (No. 72 overall, New York Jets)
2 star, three offers

147. Buffalo: DE Steven Means (No. 147 overall, Tampa Bay Buccaneers)
2 Star, one offer

198. Bowling Green: DT Chris Jones (No. 198 overall, Houston Texans)
2 Star, one offer

225. Ohio: OG Eric Herman (No. 225 overall, San Francisco Giants)
2 star, four offers

234. Miami: QB Zac Dysert (No. 234 overall, Denver Broncos)
3 star, eight offers

MAC 2013 NFL Combine. 9 invites, 5 two star, 4 thee star.

Archer, Dri. 2 Star, one offer

Carrie, Travis. Can not find that he was ever rated.

Fluellen, David. 3 stars, two offers.

Lynch, Jordan. 2 star, one offer

Mack, Kalil. 2 star, one offer

Newsome, Jonathan. 3 star, five offers. Transfer from OSU. Played in six games, no starts, for Buckeyes. Misc.: Missed Spring practice in 2011 due to academic issues. Was arrested in August of 2012 for marijuana possession and suspended for first two games of season.

Snead, Willie. 3 star, one offer

Ward, Jimmie. 2 star,5 offer

Wenning, Keith. 3 star, two offers

Edit: Added Keith Wenning

Last Edited: 2/24/2014 7:51:19 AM by Bcat2

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

L.C.
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RE: K. Mack Combine Profile

Posted: 2/22/2014 8:37:41 AM

There was an analysis done a few years ago comparing starts to draft potential. I don't remember the exact result, but if i recall, something like 70% of 5-star players were eventually drafted, 40% of 4-star players, 20% of 3-star players and 5% of 2-star players. The relationship was pretty dramatic. Of course, since there are a lot more 2-star players than 5-star players, it still means that a lot of 2-star players do get drafted.

As far as predicting which 2-star players will get drafted, in some cases they are just players that start with a little extra potential like speed or quickness, and who work really hard, and improve themselves, like a Landon Cohen or a Mike Mitchell. In other cases they are special cases, where they simply weren't rated correctly in the first place because they slipped under the radar, like Lavon Brazill or Carrie. Brazill was under the radar because he didn't play in high school until he was a Senior for academic reasons, yet by the end of his Senior year he was the MVP of the Palm Beach County all-star game (ahead of a 5-star receiver in the same game, if I recall). Carrie also didn't play until he was a Senior in High School because he needed corrective surgery, yet by the end of the year he was the MVP in the California State Championship game, if I recall. Neither would ever have been a 2-star recruit, had the rating services actually looked at them.

Last Edited: 2/22/2014 9:13:33 AM by L.C.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Bcat2
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RE: K. Mack Combine Profile

Posted: 2/22/2014 9:06:58 AM

L.C. wrote:

There was an analysis done a few years ago comparing starts to draft potential. I don't remember the exact result, but if i recall, something like 70% of 5-star players were eventually drafted, 40% of 4-star players, 20% of 3-star players and 5% of 2-star players. The relationship was pretty dramatic. Of course, since there are a lot more 2-star players than 5-star players, it still means that a lot of 2-star players do get drafted.

As far as predicting which 2-star players will get drafted, in some cases they are just players that start with a little extra potential like speed or quickness, and who work really hard, and improve themselves, like a Landon Cohen or a Mike Mitchell. In other cases they are special cases, where they simply weren't rated correctly in the first place because they slipped under the radar, like Brazille or Carrie. Brazille was under the radar because he didn't play in high school until he was a Senior for academic reasons, yet by the end of his Senior year he was the MVP of the All-County game (ahead of a 5-star receiver in the same game, if I recall). Carrie didn't play unteil he was a Senior in High School because he needed corrective surgery, yet by the end of the year he was the MVP in the California State Championship game, if I recall. Neither should ever have been a 2-star recruit, had the rating services actually looked at them.

JMHO,it seems the best MAC players are not the three stars the big boys don't want, but, the two stars who the services missed. So MAC schools need to find those men, again, star as an afterthought.

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

L.C.
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RE: K. Mack Combine Profile

Posted: 2/22/2014 9:31:18 AM

Bcat2 wrote:

JMHO,it seems the best MAC players are not the three stars the big boys don't want, but, the two stars who the services missed. So MAC schools need to find those men, again, star as an afterthought.

I would agree, and this is the Catch-22. Often the "3-star" recruit that ends up in the MAC are the ones that the AQ teams don't want, and that the ratings services perhaps have over-rated. As an example, there is Brogan Roback, a 4-star recruit last year to EMU. Even though he was a 4-star recruit, oddly, he had no-AQ offers at all, but only had other MAC offers. Will be be a sure-fire NFL player? A MAC star? Or just another MAC QB? Only time will tell.

So, is it better to recruit the 3-star players that the AQ conferences don't want, or 2-star players that might be under-rated, that the AQ conference might have missed? I think that if Ohio were to build a team of 3-star players that have no AQ-offers, the would be ending up with players that are known, and not-wanted by AQ teams, and that there would be little chance of beating AQ teams with those players. On the other hand, those are probably solid MAC players, especially if they have a lot of MAC offers. I'd say, and I'm sure that everyone would agree, Ohio should take chances on unknown/under-the-radar players that they think are exceptional, but that, unfortunately, there aren't enough of those to make a whole team - you only might find 1-2 of them a year, if that.

In the end the current strategy, and perhaps the best strategy, seems to be to:
1. Find as many hidden gems as possible
2. Compete with the AQ teams for the 3-star players, and beat them when you can
3. Fill the rest of the team with 2-3 star players that other MAC teams want

Who are the "hidden gems" in this year's class? To qualify, they need to be unrated by the services, and usually but not always they may be offers that were made late in the year, based on surprising Senior year performance, rather than early offers. Players that fit some or most of those would be Irons, White, Brunis, Washington, and Nelson. Hopefully a few years from now we'll look back at some of those and think "wow, I don't know how Ohio got those guys".

Last Edited: 2/22/2014 9:40:14 AM by L.C.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Casper71
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RE: K. Mack Combine Profile

Posted: 2/22/2014 2:48:11 PM

I will repeat my often stated mantra: if we continue to recruit the way we are now the results will be what they have been in the past. it's been a nice little ride but no MACC rings. Besides is our goal to get guys to the NFL or win a MACC?

Bcat2
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RE: K. Mack Combine Profile

Posted: 2/22/2014 5:16:08 PM

Casper71 wrote:

The main difference maker in recruiting will be more of the staff's first choices accepting. With this you should begin to see more of your 3 star recruits. I don't think there will be targeting of three stars, just, there will be a coming together of the staff's top of the board picks and higher ratings. I still believe there will still be 2 star recruits the coaches find and prefer over available 3 star athletes.

Last Edited: 2/22/2014 5:35:53 PM by Bcat2

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

L.C.
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RE: K. Mack Combine Profile

Posted: 2/22/2014 6:17:06 PM

Well, I don't think Ohio is "recruiting the way they were". If you go back to 2005-2009, Ohio was trying to recruit the way they are now, but failing. They would send out 150 or so offers, and end up with maybe 3 players, then in December/January, they scrambled around looking for decent players that had been overlooked. Sometimes they got a great player, and sometimes a player that didn't work out.

Now the situation is reversed - they get most of the class filled with high 2/low 3 star players who choose Ohio over the other MAC schools, but who have few AQ offers. After filling the bulk of the class, they fill only the last few spots with under the radar players. Will this work better? Ask me in a couple more years, but I think it will. This started in 2011, and started in earnest in 2013. The 2011 players will be Redshirt Juniors next year. Hopefully it will be enough better that Ohio will win at least one MAC Championship in the next few years.

Now, I agree that if Ohio is going to move up to be a legitimate top 25 team, recruiting players that only other MAC schools want, plus a few under the radar surprises is not enough to win consistently at that level. Ohio will need to land more 3-star players that do have AQ offers. That is easier said than done. WMU did this year, but MAC schools in general haven't been able to do it consistently. AAC conference teams like Cincinnati or U.Conn seem to be able to land quite a few 3-star players with AQ offers, but for most MAC, CUSA, and Sunbelt teams, it just doesn't seem to happen.

Last Edited: 2/22/2014 8:36:20 PM by L.C.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Bcat2
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RE: K. Mack Combine Profile

Posted: 2/23/2014 9:45:09 AM

Casper71 wrote:

"nice little ride" and if some things had fallen differently in a MACC vs NIU the ride would all of a sudden become a Six Flags roller coaster? "nice little ride" really? State College, Shreveport, Boise, Pitt, becoming the second winningest program in the MAC since 2006, five consecutive bowls. Yes a nice ride, though, my description would be more generous than "little."

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

Casper71
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RE: K. Mack Combine Profile

Posted: 2/23/2014 7:40:05 PM

Geeze, bcat that's just a "nice little expression"! Of course its the best 10 years of OHIO football ever and i, like everyone, have enjoyed. We've put the ingredients together, mixed a great cake, put a delicious icing on top...now we just need cherries (MACCs) to top it off!

JSF
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RE: K. Mack Combine Profile

Posted: 2/23/2014 8:17:54 PM

Anything that could be possibly be construed as another other than ebullient praise toward Ohio football is a personal affront to bcat2.

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