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Topic: Athalon ranks the 128 Football coaches

Topic: Athalon ranks the 128 Football coaches

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L.C.
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Athalon ranks the 128 Football coaches

Posted: 4/26/2014 11:10:14 AM

Here's the list of coaches. They also rank the 128 coaching jobs.

First, the jobs:
NIU - 78
Toledo - 82
Ohio - 86
Miami - 91
BG - 94
CMU - 106
WMU - 110
Akron - 112
Kent - 113
Ball State - 115
Buffalo - 120
U.Mass - 125
EMU - yep, dead last, at 128

Then the coaches:
Pete Lembo, Ball State #48
Terry Bowden, Akron #65
Frank Solich, Ohio #68
Dino Babers, BGSU #79
Matt Campbell, Toledo #84
Rod Carey, NIU #96
Mark Whipple, U.Mass #104
Jeff Quinn, Buffalo #105
Dan Enos, CMU #110
Chuck Martin, Miami #111
Paul Haynes, Kent #116
Chris Creighton, EMU #117
PJ Fleck, WMU #123

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Jeff McKinney
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RE: Athalon ranks the 128 Football coaches

Posted: 4/26/2014 11:41:31 AM

Chuck Landon says unacceptable that Herdistan is only one spot ahead of "the likes of Ohio" at #85.

MedinaCat
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RE: Athalon ranks the 128 Football coaches

Posted: 4/26/2014 12:22:52 PM

The only way Terry Bowden ranks ahead of Frank is if the consumption of biscuits and gravy is the primary consideration.

Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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RE: Athalon ranks the 128 Football coaches

Posted: 4/26/2014 5:40:37 PM

MedinaCat wrote:

The only way Terry Bowden ranks ahead of Frank is if the consumption of biscuits and gravy is the primary consideration.

I think you've stumbled upon the greatest MAC Media Day public relations stunt in conference history. Biscuits and Gravy eating contest. Winner gets the tiebreaker for a division title.

Toledo instantly fires Campbell, rehires Tom Amstutz..

OUcats82
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RE: Athalon ranks the 128 Football coaches

Posted: 4/27/2014 10:46:17 AM

Mark Mangino might petition Iowa State to allow him to attend on behalf of the Big 12 for diplomatic reasons.

Last Edited: 4/27/2014 10:47:05 AM by OUcats82

Ohio-The State University

L.C.
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RE: Athalon ranks the 128 Football coaches

Posted: 4/27/2014 11:28:48 AM

OUcats82 wrote:

Mark Mangino might petition Iowa State to allow him to attend on behalf of the Big 12 for diplomatic reasons.

Weis from Kansas may also wish to represent the Big 12.

Last Edited: 4/27/2014 11:30:35 AM by L.C.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

TheBobcatBandit
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RE: Athalon ranks the 128 Football coaches

Posted: 4/27/2014 4:39:26 PM

This is awful. I only looked at the MAC and top 20 and I can find numerous errors. how is Jimbo not in the top 5 after taking a team to a title in 4 years? How is James Franklin at Penn State 11th. Frank has a better resume than he does as does les miles and 20 other coaches below him and as stated above how is Akron's coach above Frank. Hate to be this negative but this is awful.

Last Edited: 4/27/2014 4:40:19 PM by TheBobcatBandit

L.C.
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RE: Athalon ranks the 128 Football coaches

Posted: 4/27/2014 5:14:12 PM

Most of these lists are all opinion. Another list is to take the "Coaches Hot Seat" list, and turn it upside down. There you will find Jimbo #1, if you do that, since he has the 128th hottest seat. Of course, on that list new hires are presumed to not have a very hot seat. Regardless of how good they may or may not be, the usually get 3-4 years before being terminated. On that list, the only one in the MAC whose seat is warm is PJ Fleck. The MAC coach that surprises me on their list is that they have Enos at #91, very safe. I think he'll have a good year this year, but I also think his seat is warm enough that a bad year might be his last.

If you really wanted a serious list of the best coaches, you can find one at the "Coaches by the Numbers" site. They used to be free, so I've seen that they actually support their opinions by data, comparing things like wins when playing teams with equal recruiting talent, etc. They no longer are free, and I gather that they sell their data primarily to athletic departments and search firms seeking to hire new coaches.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Athalon ranks the 128 Football coaches

Posted: 4/27/2014 10:04:21 PM

How many years and no MAC title?

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TheBobcatBandit
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RE: Athalon ranks the 128 Football coaches

Posted: 4/28/2014 1:08:40 AM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

How many years and no MAC title?

How many years before him with no MAC title? How many years before him with no MAC east title

TheBobcatBandit
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RE: Athalon ranks the 128 Football coaches

Posted: 4/28/2014 1:23:00 AM

1968 and never..... Is it acceptable that he hasn't won it? no, but he has gotten closer than anyone else in recent history and I would be shocked if we don't get one in the next 5 years. This program is only going to go up with Frank at the helm. With the new IPF and attendance at a high creating a great atmosphere good recruits are going to want to come here. With that and decent coaching we will get the results. and coaching is one thing we have to give Frank credit on. If you look back at our recruiting classes they haven't been the top in the MAC. He hasn't been the best recruiter but he always coaches up what he has to a great level and makes them competitive. If this practice facility can bring in those good recruits watch out because we will have a heck of a team.

GoCats105
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RE: Athalon ranks the 128 Football coaches

Posted: 4/28/2014 11:41:32 AM

TheBobcatBandit wrote:

Great coaches don't automatically mean national championships and conference titles. You have to look at the situation they are in too. I'm not surprised about Franklin being 11th. Not many guys could have done what he did at Vandy over that span of time. Especially in the heyday the SEC has been in the past 10 years. I'll agree with you about Bowden and Frank though. Unless this writer thinks turning around the Akron gig is more impressive than turning around Ohio.

L.C.
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RE: Athalon ranks the 128 Football coaches

Posted: 4/28/2014 1:17:41 PM

You can't really compare the situation at Akron to Ohio. While Knorr may not have improved the program, he wasn't a complete disaster, at least not on the scale of some coaches we've seen recently at schools like Akron or Miami. Using Sagarin numbers to compare (since they are readily available), the average for Ohio the prior three years under Grobe were 63.50. Under Knorr the average was 57.49, down, but not by a massive amount.

Let's compare that to iCoach. In the last three years under Brookhart, the average was 57.47. Under iCoach, the average was 41.58. No one else could do that, right? Well, the average under Molnar's predecessor was 57.45, and Molnar managed a 2 year average of 41.64. Thus, if you want to compare Bowden to someone, compare him to Whipple. Can Whipple pick up the pieces as well as Bowden did? Better? We'll have to wait and see.

Back to comparing Akron pre-Bowden to Ohio pre-Solich. Akron had gone downhill much faster, and was in worse shape, by far. On the other hand, Bowden got to start with a nice new stadium, and an indoor practice facility. I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that Akron also has malls, well known to be an important recruiting tool.

Thus, he started with a worse team, but far better facilities, and in an urban setting.

Bowden, in his first two years has raised the average from 41.58 to 53.05, a substantial improvement, but even now he doesn't have Akron playing as well as Ohio was playing under Knorr, or for that matter, as well as Akron was under Brookhart. If you want to compare him to Solich, let's see what he does from here.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

OhioCatFan
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RE: Athalon ranks the 128 Football coaches

Posted: 4/28/2014 11:03:48 PM

Well, Akron was one three yard pass completion away from beating Michigan last year. So, I think the improvement at Akron may be under-reflected in numerical ratings. If that one pass in the final few seconds of the game had been completed, I suspect the various numerical indexes would have rated Akron much higher last year.

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Monroe Slavin
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RE: Athalon ranks the 128 Football coaches

Posted: 4/29/2014 2:58:18 AM

Now, wait a minute. This inability to see the truth...er, ability to not see the forest for the trees...has to stop.

I like Coach Solich a lot. And we're in a lot better shape than we were when he came on. But we haven't beaten a MAC team with a record over .500 for a long time (two years?). Look, it's start showing clear improvement this year and get to the MAC title game in within a couple of years after that or...

And, sorry good friend,,Coach Knorr is roundly acknowledged as a fine man. But during his time here, it was bad. Bad. Hey, Beefs had the longest losing streak in the nation. Guess who they ended it against and who coached that team. There's a reason that the k word became a verb. It's no fun to state this truth, but his tenure was in no way a success. It was a nosedive.

Last Edited: 4/29/2014 10:17:55 AM by Monroe Slavin

L.C.
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RE: Athalon ranks the 128 Football coaches

Posted: 4/29/2014 10:45:12 AM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

....And, sorry good friend,,Coach Knorr is roundly acknowledged as a fine man. But during his time here, it was bad. Bas. Hey, Beefs had he longest losing streak in the nation. Guess who they ended it against and who coached that team. There's a reason that the k word became a verb. It's no fun to state this truth, but his tenure was in no way a success. It was a nosedive.

A dive, yes, but when he left, there was still air under the wings. Ohio actually won 4 games in 2004, and there were still some fine players in the program, like McRae, Muncy, Cohen, Byrum, Wright, Mayle, Yates, Coppage, Knabb etc. By contrast iCoach at Akron went deeper than a nosedive, and crashed the program. In 2010 and 2011 Akron went 1-19 against FBS schools. and 1-1 against FCS schools. He left the program in such a bad state that the 1-11 record with the only win coming over Morgan Statel in 2012 was considered a massive improvement because they only lost once by more than 30, as opposed to 7 times the year before. Using Ohio history as a parallel, Knorr was to Grobe as Burke was to Hess, while iCoach was more like Bryant.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

MedinaCat
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RE: Athalon ranks the 128 Football coaches

Posted: 4/29/2014 5:09:31 PM

Agree with Monroe here. Burke inherited a very tough situation and was able to cobble together .500 campaigns on average. Knorr took the helm of a steady ship and immediately put it into the rocks. Only coach I know who name was regularly used as a verb.(still is occasionally)

My edit...Knorr inherited a tough situation as well. New coach who had to assemble an entire staff.

Last Edited: 4/29/2014 5:11:08 PM by MedinaCat

SBH
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RE: Athalon ranks the 128 Football coaches

Posted: 4/29/2014 5:17:38 PM

L.C. wrote:

Monroe Slavin wrote:

The ultimate indictment of iCoach is that in his very first strategic call - the coin toss - in his inaugural game, he miscommunicated with his captains and Akron ended up kicking off to begin both halves. It was all downhill after that.

L.C.
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RE: Athalon ranks the 128 Football coaches

Posted: 4/29/2014 6:16:36 PM

MedinaCat wrote:

Well, let me pose the question this way: Regardless of what you think of the job Knorr did with the players he had, at the end of his term, was the program in shambles? Were there any pieces in place which his successor could use to rebuild from? That, to me, is the difference between a "nosedive" and a "crash and burn".

This isn't something where we need to agree. I just think that iCoach was significantly worse than Knorr, and that he did far more harm to the Akron program than Knorr did to the Ohio program. I think that there were still some good players in the program when Solich got to Ohio. I do think Solich did a fine job of improving and adding to those pieces, and turning the program around, but I think he had some pieces left to start with.

By contrast, I don't think iCoach left much behind, so I don't think it's fair to compare Bowden's first two years to Solich's first two. Solich would not have won a MAC East in his second year, starting with what Bowden had to start with. I think even Whipple, at UMass, has more to work with than Bowden had.

I think the next two years will tell more about how good a coach Bowden is than the first two did.

Last Edited: 4/29/2014 8:27:55 PM by L.C.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

TheBobcatBandit
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RE: Athalon ranks the 128 Football coaches

Posted: 4/29/2014 10:11:17 PM

Bowden can still be a great coach I think he can and will be but as of now to rank him in front of solich is silly

Bcat2
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RE: Athalon ranks the 128 Football coaches

Posted: 4/30/2014 7:44:46 AM

TheBobcatBandit wrote:

Bowden can still be a great coach I think he can and will be but as of now to rank him in front of solich is silly

With a Bowden you get "Just Win Baby" with the approach to recruiting/education/scholarship management etc. that brings. With coach Solich you get "More Than Winning" with a much different approach to recruiting/education/scholarship management etc.. Solich's approach is what it is and it for sure is not apples to apples comparing him to a Bowden.

Last Edited: 4/30/2014 8:22:00 AM by Bcat2

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Monroe Slavin
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RE: Athalon ranks the 128 Football coaches

Posted: 5/2/2014 2:35:35 AM

SIgn of edging to back on track will be when we see onfield enthusiasm/spirit such as Patrick Tafua brought and sideline spirit/rapport such as Chris Garrett had with Coach.

L.C.
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RE: Athalon ranks the 128 Football coaches

Posted: 5/2/2014 1:53:22 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

SIgn of edging to back on track will be when we see onfield enthusiasm/spirit such as Patrick Tafua brought and sideline spirit/rapport such as Chris Garrett had with Coach.

I saw that fire again, in the Spring videos, though only from the defensive players. In every video, every defensive player interviewed looked pumped and excited. That's a start. To be honest, the offensive players looked a little like they were getting overwhelmed in scrimmages by the swarming defense, but hey, when they play other teams, it will only be easier for the offense.

I like starting with a good defense, though. So far, every year Ohio has had a very good defense, they have had a great season, so this year may be better than I have been expecting.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

goherd25
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RE: Athalon ranks the 128 Football coaches

Posted: 5/5/2014 9:58:27 PM

Solich is a good coach. Not a great recruiter, but id take a coach over a recruiter every day. IE see Solich's record vs Doc Holliday. 3-1.

TomCat
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RE: Athalon ranks the 128 Football coaches

Posted: 5/5/2014 10:48:06 PM

FWIW. Legendary recruiting guru, Tom Lemming, called coach Solich "a crackerjack recruiter." I share that view. And, judging from the number of his assistants hired away by other institutions, Frank Solich is a "crackerjack recruiter" of assistant coaches as well.

TomCat

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