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Topic: Big 5 breakaway

Topic: Big 5 breakaway

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colobobcat66
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Big 5 breakaway

Posted: 4/24/2014 9:05:55 PM

Now that the NCAA is finally going to let the Big 5 do whatever they want in regards to how they want to run their sports, what does everyone think about how that will affect the rest of us?

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/10834339/nca...

Last Edited: 4/24/2014 9:18:49 PM by colobobcat66

cbarber357
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RE: Big 5 breakaway

Posted: 4/24/2014 11:43:04 PM

Could backfire on the larger schools. If they were to break off, what becomes of their constantly underperforming schools? How corrupt would recruiting get? What would the states that fun these schools do about it? My guess is the more freedom they have the worse it will end up backfiring on them in the long run.

Pataskala
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RE: Big 5 breakaway

Posted: 4/25/2014 6:58:16 AM

I smell an antitrust suit coming down the pipe. At some point one of the conferences left behind will gain enough stature (at least in their own minds) and want to be part of the bigger group. If they're rejected, the lawyers head to court or the DOJ with a restraint of trade complaint.

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GoCats105
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RE: Big 5 breakaway

Posted: 4/25/2014 8:00:04 AM

Pataskala wrote:

It's not going to be up to the conferences to make that decision. The individual university presidents are the ones who will need to make their case known. They have the power. It will come from schools like UConn, Cincinnati, Houston, BYU, etc or anyone else who feels slighted. That is, if those schools don't end up joining some other major conference in the next year or so.

Full disclosure, I think BYU wrote their own death warrant when they decided to go Independent in football. The Mormon following may be strong, but it's no where near what the Catholic following (Notre Dame) is. The Mountain West was making a serious argument to be a top five or six conference when they had TCU, BYU, Utah, SDSU, Utah State, Nevada on board and Boise State poised to join the league. I can't remember if it was Utah who left for the PAC 12 first or if it was BYU who did the solo project first.

Bobcatbob
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RE: Big 5 breakaway

Posted: 4/25/2014 8:32:31 AM

I still expect and hope for a popular backlash. Yes, there will always be those people who don't care that they're watching second tier prop sports on Saturday but anyone who cares about college football as it existed for one hundred years has to be completely turned off by this.

Unfortunately, because this will cement even more revenue for the the "Big 5" in the near term, I doubt the backlash will deter them. Unless there is some external force exerted on them, they will continue to pursue the demolition of the sport that made them.

L.C.
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RE: Big 5 breakaway

Posted: 4/25/2014 8:34:47 AM

I think that this split makes it far more likely that the football players in power conferences will be found to be employees, and the courts can require players to be paid and given health insurance/work comp insurance/unemployment insurance/social security/disability insurance, and other employee benefits. (I don't even want to think about how high the rate will be for work comp insurance).

Meanwhile the split may help the other schools, who could never afford to operate sports at all if required to provide such benefits, and non-power conference schools may be able to maintain the status quo and treat their athletes as amateurs.

Last Edited: 4/25/2014 8:36:03 AM by L.C.

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colobobcat66
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RE: Big 5 breakaway

Posted: 4/25/2014 9:04:28 AM

GoCats105 wrote:

Pataskala wrote:

I'm guessing several of the better programs which have been left out will find a home in the next two years- at least BYU (UCONN, maybe Cinn.) And you have the Notre Dame issue which would be solved in a minute if it had to be. Frankly, the realignment process, while ugly in many ways, has been quite efficient in separating the haves from the have nots in football. The Big East imploded with the more obvious good teams leaving.
Frankly I worry more about other sports other than football which has pretty much already separated itself by haves and have nots.
Re the Mountain West, I'm not sure that Boise state was actually in the mtn west when BYU was and Utah St was not either. Anyway it's history has been all over the place and only in the last year looks like it's stabilizing. It needs BYU again to move up near the top tier, but even then has too many weak sisters to be top tier.

Last Edited: 4/25/2014 9:27:04 AM by colobobcat66

Ohio69
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RE: Big 5 breakaway

Posted: 4/25/2014 9:51:38 AM

Pure greed has won. I find it sad. My passion for college sports has been dwindling greatly due to all the recent changes.

Would be fun to watch a US Senator (hello Connecticut, anyone home?) make some threats and etc. But, I don't see that really happening.

Will be interesting to see if the MAC tries to match the salaries and benefits the Big 5 will dole out. If not, how on earth could a Northern Illinois steal recruits from the Big 5 bottom dwellers?

Time for the non Big 5 division I teams and the better I-AA teams to get organized, and quick. With sports as the main TV rating draw these days, and NBC and CBS and etc. trying to take on ESPN, they might be able to start something interesting...... Need to dream big and take a shot at it.

Last Edited: 4/25/2014 9:51:56 AM by Ohio69

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

Casper71
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RE: Big 5 breakaway

Posted: 4/25/2014 10:08:10 AM

The College football/basketball model as it has existed since forever is officially broken and about to change dramatically. The reprecussions of these decisions will be far reaching...especially for Title IX and minor sports, yikes! Soon, we'll have the Phillips 66 Texas Longhorns, Chic Fil A Georgia Bulldogs, etc. in the top tier and the real college amateurs in another lower division. Anybody got a sponsor for the Bobcats?

Diamond Cat
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RE: Big 5 breakaway

Posted: 4/25/2014 10:14:47 AM

I am with you Ohio69. I have started to feel that way the last couple of years. This is the potential nail in the coffin for MAC Schools.

The border line kids we would get will now be willing to pick the pine and get paid then come to OHIO and actually participate. Not that this is a new revelation. I have seen many kids over the years be content with sitting the bench just to say they ran out of the tunnel for a power conference school but never sniffed the field. This decision will make that more prevalent than ever.

I would actually love for this to make our conference more relevant. Meaning that I hope fans who want to follow college ball as it was meant to be, will take a liking to a conference like the MAC where it is still a pure amateur sport and a scholarship means something.

These people have lost their mind.

GoCats105
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RE: Big 5 breakaway

Posted: 4/25/2014 11:34:52 AM

colobobcat66 wrote:

GoCats105 wrote:

Pataskala wrote:

It's not really the "good teams" that they're taking though. It's about money in one way or another. Cincinnati has been one of the best football teams in the Big East/AAC the last ten years, but they provide little in sponsorship dollars, eyeballs on TVs, and frankly their attendance numbers are a joke for a big-time program. The new expansion of Nippert Stadium will help the ole' gal look nicer, but it's still old.

RE: the Mountain West. Forgot about Utah State. I think both USU and Boise were slated to come into the Mountain West before BYU left, but I'm not 100% on that. Neither here nor there, but still interesting how that conference has fell apart.

colobobcat66
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RE: Big 5 breakaway

Posted: 4/25/2014 1:02:18 PM

The realignment circus has really been pretty efficient at getting the right schools into the Big 5 (based on football attendance at least)
Check this out, here are the bottom 12 Big 5 schools in average attendance and the top 12 non-Big 5 schools in average attendance based on NCAA numbers for 2013. 2013 record in ()
Bottom 12 Big 5
TCU 43,598             (4-8)
Oregon St. 42,964   (7-6)
Maryland 41,278       (7-6)
Northwestern 39,307 (5-7)
Colorado 38,463        (4-8)
Syracuse 38,277        (7-6)
Kansas 37,884          (3-9)
Vanderbilt 35,956        (9-4)
Boston College 33,956 (7-6)
Washington State 29,738 (6-7)
Wake Forest 28,414   (4-8)
Duke 26,062              (10-4)

Top 12 Non-Big 5
East Carolina 43,985 (10-3)
UCF 42,084                 (12-1)
Fresno St 36,917       (11-2)
Navy 35,588 (9-4)
South Fla 34,702        (2-10)
Boise St   34,366        (8-5)
Army 33,956                (3-9)
San Diego St 33,224 (8-5)
Air Force 32,652         (2-10)
Cincinnati 31,771        (9-4)
Hawaii 30,989            (1-11)
UCONN 30,932           (3-9)
All Big 5 schools on this list were mediocre/lousy or are small private schools with limited FB following.
Many of the Non-Big 5 schools on this list had good/great years, but there's a lot more explaining to do about some of them. (Service academies have loyal followings regardless of win-loss, for example)

sorry about that format, it doesn,t work on a mobile device

Last Edited: 4/25/2014 5:22:39 PM by colobobcat66

GoCats105
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RE: Big 5 breakaway

Posted: 4/25/2014 4:37:57 PM

colobobcat66 wrote:

The realignment circus has really been pretty efficient at getting the right schools into the Big 5 (based on football attendance at least)
Check this out, here are the bottom 12 Big 5 schools in average attendance and the top 12 non-Big 5 schools in average attendance based on NCAA numbers for 2013. 2013 record in ()
Bottom 12 Big 5                                                                Top 12 non-Big 5
TCU 43,598             (4-8)                                                  East Carolina 43,985 (10-3)
Oregon St. 42,964   (7-6)                                                 UCF 42,084                 (12-1)
Maryland 41,278       (7-6)                                                Fresno St 36,917       (11-2)
Northwestern 39,307 (5-7)                                              Navy 35,588 (9-4)
Colorado 38,463        (4-8)                                              South Fla 34,702        (2-10)
Syracuse 38,277        (7-6)                                              Boise St   34,366        (8-5)
Kansas 37,884          (3-9)                                               Army 33,956                (3-9)
Vanderbilt 35,956        (9-4)                                             San Diego St 33,224 (8-5)
Boston College 33,956 (7-6)                                         Air Force 32,652         (2-10)
Washington State 29,738 (6-7)                                      Cincinnati 31,771        (9-4)
Wake Forest 28,414   (4-8)                                              Hawaii 30,989            (1-11)
Duke 26,062              (10-4)                                              UCONN 30,932           (3-9)

All Big 5 schools on this list were mediocre/lousy or are small private schools with limited FB following.
Many of the Non-Big 5 schools on this list had good/great years, but there's a lot more explaining to do about some of them. (Service academies have loyal followings regardless of win-loss, for example)

Here's another one that is rather intriguing. UTSA, in only three years of football EVER, is averaging more than Duke and Wake Forest, and close to Washington State (29,214).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UTSA_Roadrunners_football

Last Edited: 4/25/2014 4:38:15 PM by GoCats105

OUcats82
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RE: Big 5 breakaway

Posted: 4/25/2014 4:54:43 PM

colobobcat66 wrote:

The realignment circus has really been pretty efficient at getting the right schools into the Big 5 (based on football attendance at least)
Check this out, here are the bottom 12 Big 5 schools in average attendance and the top 12 non-Big 5 schools in average attendance based on NCAA numbers for 2013. 2013 record in ()
Bottom 12 Big 5                                                                Top 12 non-Big 5
TCU 43,598             (4-8)                                                  East Carolina 43,985 (10-3)
Oregon St. 42,964   (7-6)                                                 UCF 42,084                 (12-1)
Maryland 41,278       (7-6)                                                Fresno St 36,917       (11-2)
Northwestern 39,307 (5-7)                                              Navy 35,588 (9-4)
Colorado 38,463        (4-8)                                              South Fla 34,702        (2-10)
Syracuse 38,277        (7-6)                                              Boise St   34,366        (8-5)
Kansas 37,884          (3-9)                                               Army 33,956                (3-9)
Vanderbilt 35,956        (9-4)                                             San Diego St 33,224 (8-5)
Boston College 33,956 (7-6)                                         Air Force 32,652         (2-10)
Washington State 29,738 (6-7)                                      Cincinnati 31,771        (9-4)
Wake Forest 28,414   (4-8)                                              Hawaii 30,989            (1-11)
Duke 26,062              (10-4)                                              UCONN 30,932           (3-9)

All Big 5 schools on this list were mediocre/lousy or are small private schools with limited FB following.
Many of the Non-Big 5 schools on this list had good/great years, but there's a lot more explaining to do about some of them. (Service academies have loyal followings regardless of win-loss, for example)

The figures of the bottom 12 teams are intriguing. I wonder how much of their attendance numbers on a game by game basis are based on the opponent? A school like Vandy has a lot of high end teams come to play in conference that will draw out their own fans in stronger numbers but also bring a lot of visitors too I bet. I guess membership has its privileges?

Ohio-The State University

Hawaiian Bobcat
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RE: Big 5 breakaway

Posted: 4/25/2014 6:09:02 PM

Is this for football only or all sports?

colobobcat66
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RE: Big 5 breakaway

Posted: 4/25/2014 7:38:45 PM

hawaiian bobcat wrote:

Is this for football only or all sports?

It's suggesting that it's all sports, where the rub is, as far as I'm concerned

Bob'n'eer
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RE: Big 5 breakaway

Posted: 4/27/2014 11:07:09 PM

I think you have left off the number 1 non-big five team…. BYU.

Casper71
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RE: Big 5 breakaway

Posted: 4/28/2014 12:18:30 AM

Isn't San Antonio like the 5th or 6th biggest city in america? And, there is NO NFL there. And, it's Texas for crying out loud they love their FB. Not surprising to me they have a following.

colobobcat66
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RE: Big 5 breakaway

Posted: 4/28/2014 7:59:04 AM

Bob'n'eer wrote:

I think you have left off the number 1 non-big five team…. BYU.

You're correct of course. Talked about them earlier, just missed them when I went thru the listing. As I said above, they can become Big 5 , anytime they want. The biggest non- Big 5 is really Notre Dame who is quasi independent.

OhioCatFan
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RE: Big 5 breakaway

Posted: 4/28/2014 10:21:22 AM

Hold on to your hat . . . now it's the Big11 that's being sued. I think with all the various lawsuits recently against the NCAA that the issue of paying players is going to end up before the US Supreme Court.

Key Quote: "The lawsuit in U.S. District Court for the District of Minnesota is the latest in a surge of litigation targeting the NCAA. This is at least the fourth lawsuit this year related to the gap between scholarships and the actual cost of attendance."

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Pataskala
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RE: Big 5 breakaway

Posted: 5/2/2014 4:11:23 PM

Another perspective from CBS.

And an interesting take on the Oregon situation.

Last Edited: 5/2/2014 4:19:14 PM by Pataskala

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