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Topic: What is Our Biggest Challenge?

Topic: What is Our Biggest Challenge?

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TWT
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What is Our Biggest Challenge?

Posted: 5/1/2015 10:15:08 PM

What is Our Biggest Challenge?

	Not enough TV coverage
	Facilities are too lousy to compete
	Coaching staff has predictable play calling.

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I am interested to see how this poll goes since so many want to defend the decisions of the coaching staff on this site.

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L.C.
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RE: What is Our Biggest Challenge?

Posted: 5/2/2015 9:59:28 AM

There is no place for "none of the above". I would say that the biggest challenges in advancing the football program are the rural location, and the fact that for many years Ohio has been overshadowed by Ohio State, and as a consequence, never really developed a football culture. As a result not much emphasis was put on facilities, and Ohio fit best in a smaller, regional conference.

Today the facilities are improving, and the football culture is growing. Will it ever grow enough for it to make sense for Ohio to move to another conference? I don't know, but if not, the revenue and exposure limits of the MAC are going to place some limits on what the program can accomplish. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, and based on past discussions here, I know that some would prefer it that way.

Last Edited: 5/2/2015 10:15:34 AM by L.C.

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Mike Johnson
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RE: What is Our Biggest Challenge?

Posted: 5/2/2015 10:27:59 AM

L.C. wrote:

Agree. On seeing the 3 poll choices, my first thought was, What about rural, isolated location?

Can that hindrance be overcome? To some extent it has.

http://www.facebook.com/mikejohnson.author

Monroe Slavin
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RE: What is Our Biggest Challenge?

Posted: 5/2/2015 10:48:51 AM

We can discuss rural location, etc until we're blue in the face.

Why don't we consider those things which are controllable, changeable?

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L.C.
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RE: What is Our Biggest Challenge?

Posted: 5/2/2015 10:52:44 AM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

We can discuss rural location, etc until we're blue in the face.

Why don't we consider those things which are controllable, changeable?

Some of the things that are "controllable, changeable" are symptoms, not the core problems. In trying to overcome them, you have to recognize how they came to be in the first place. Rural location can't be changed, but that doesn't mean that you can dismiss the effects that it has, and will continue to have.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

TWT
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RE: What is Our Biggest Challenge?

Posted: 5/2/2015 10:53:51 AM

I posted it on here a couple years ago from the 2012 or 2013 season that Ohio had more ESPN coverage than any school in the ACC that year aside from Florida State. Before Frank the program was never on ESPN but the MAC deal has put us and several other schools on quite regularly. Eastern Michigan is the only one I know that almost never gets an ESPN game. Where we rank in facilities is one of the least understood by fans. We have a brand new IPF, a 10,000 square foot weight room which is a good size nationally, renovated locker room and meeting areas, going to have a state of the art academic center, then when that is ready new players lounge in Peden. Compared to the MAC we'll be at the top and in the same league as an average power conference team. That is going to give reason for more 3/4 star recruits to stay in-state over a Boston College or Pittsburgh. The Big Ten recruiting more nationally for players is going to open up more Big Ten level players for MAC schools which in turn will raise the ratings of both conferences. The biggest obstacle IMO is the coaching staff and its insistence on weak non-conference schedules. Listen to Saul Phillips the basketball coach. He says the only way to get anywhere is playing big non-conference games.

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2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
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Mike Johnson
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RE: What is Our Biggest Challenge?

Posted: 5/2/2015 10:54:09 AM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

We can discuss rural location, etc until we're blue in the face.

Why don't we consider those things which are controllable, changeable?

In a way, Monroe, the location has been changing - for the better. Athens is much more easily accessible than in years past. And on-field success and improved facilities are enhancing the strengthened accessibility.

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TWT
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RE: What is Our Biggest Challenge?

Posted: 5/2/2015 11:21:43 AM

L.C. wrote:

Monroe Slavin wrote:

We can discuss rural location, etc until we're blue in the face.

Why don't we consider those things which are controllable, changeable?

There is more to do in Athens then all but about 3 cities in Ohio. More bars, restaurants and hotels outside of the largest 6-8 cities in the state. Then many of the players who are into the outdoors like the fact the town is surrounded by a national forest and the many state parks of the area. Athens is way nicer than Morgantown and that school had no problem pulling in recruits from Florida. Their stadium looks outdated and is right across the street from a trailer park. Sure with the location I don't think the potential is there to out of the blue draw 50,000 like Louisville did. What matters to the recruits is if the stadium is state of the art like that new Baylor stadium. There was a time in basketball when the thought was you needed to have an 8,000 or 10,000 seat arena to be taken seriously and now many schools are building 5,000 or 6,000 seat arenas they can fill more regularly. The same is starting to apply to football where 25,000 seats if done right is fine. Will we ever be Ohio St. or Alabama no but I see no reason why we couldn't get players like West Virginia has done out of Florida and win conference titles.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

Monroe Slavin
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RE: What is Our Biggest Challenge?

Posted: 5/2/2015 12:57:40 PM

L.C. wrote:

Monroe Slavin wrote:

We can discuss rural location, etc until we're blue in the face.

Why don't we consider those things which are controllable, changeable?

No. It does mean that I can dismiss them. Why stew about small stadium capacity or remoteness...things that cannot be changed!? As Mike notes, remoteness has been somewhat alleviated, but it's still significant.

Things that can change include such as recruitment, play-calling, scheme, uniform design, etc, etc. Not all of these will have marked impact but if I'm AD/President, I look at what I can change/conrol/fix.

Stop. The hue and cry for me to become AD/President is overwhelming. Please; just stop.

Last Edited: 5/2/2015 12:58:14 PM by Monroe Slavin

perimeterpost
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RE: What is Our Biggest Challenge?

Posted: 5/2/2015 3:10:36 PM

The biggest challenge facing Ohio's football program is that it is a member of the Football Bowl Subdivision, the most openly and blatantly corrupt sports league this side of FIFA. Splitting league revenue amongst 10 equal members in a way that gives 5 of the members 70% of the revenue and the other 5 members 27% is criminal.

In the first year of a 12 year contract the net revenue for the CFP and the bowls combined gave the P5 a 444% revenue advantage over the G5. Over the next 12 years the P5 are on a run rate to receive $3.03 billion MORE than the G5 from this league revenue distribution model. It is criminal.

By comparison, the NFL split the $6 billion it earned in league revenue last year equally amongst all 32 members, each receiving $187.7M. If the NFL adopted the FBS model of league revenue distribution the NFC teams would have received $262M each while the AFC teams each received $101M.

Not surprisingly, even mentioning a need for changing a blatantly rigged system that keeps the rich rich and the poor poor is too often shouted down with accusations of "you get what you earn" and "life ain't fair" and "deal with it" and "'Merica!", etc. I hear this even from G5 fans, we sound like abuse victims who make excuses for our abusers. Sadly, FBS is a perfect microcosm of our country today, but I digress.

My point is this- FBS is corrupt. Not just unfair, CORRUPT. And until that changes our biggest challenge will always be trying to attract and retain talented players and staff to compete in a league THAT DOES NOT HAVE A DIRECT PATH TO A CHAMPIONSHIP GAME. yeah, that too. The solution is not to leave FBS, but to stay and fight.

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OhioCatFan
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RE: What is Our Biggest Challenge?

Posted: 5/2/2015 3:16:02 PM

perimeterpost wrote:

. . . My point is this- FBS is corrupt. Not just unfair, CORRUPT. And until that changes our biggest challenge will always be trying to attract and retain talented players and staff to compete in a league THAT DOES NOT HAVE A DIRECT PATH TO A CHAMPIONSHIP GAME. yeah, that too. The solution is not to leave FBS, but to stay and fight.

Right on, Man. Fight the good fight!

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Monroe Slavin
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RE: What is Our Biggest Challenge?

Posted: 5/2/2015 5:42:33 PM

Okay. But that makes us no different from any other MAC school, right?

Given no MAC title and not very near one at all for the past few years, then what can we do to get one? How do we proceed? What do we change?

colobobcat66
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RE: What is Our Biggest Challenge?

Posted: 5/2/2015 8:13:44 PM

perimeterpost wrote:

Sounds to me like the G5 should break off and see what the market will pay them for televising their games. Sarcasm alert.

C Money
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RE: What is Our Biggest Challenge?

Posted: 5/2/2015 8:15:45 PM

Lack of a killer instinct. We don't roll the eff out of anyone, and way too many of our wins are closer than they should be.

L.C.
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RE: What is Our Biggest Challenge?

Posted: 5/2/2015 8:26:09 PM

colobobcat66 wrote:

Sounds to me like the G5 should break off and see what the market will pay them for televising their games. Sarcasm alert.

His point, I think, is that if the G5 had a clear path to the championship, even if the chance was remote, the G5 would have more fan interest, and better recruiting, and be on a more even footing. He would prefer if the model were more like March madness, where even the smaller conferences could conceivably win it all.

No, it wouldn't be an even footing because the P5 would still have more fans, and more money, and a better chance, and the P5 would still always win, but it would be more "fair".

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TheBobcatBandit
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RE: What is Our Biggest Challenge?

Posted: 5/2/2015 8:48:32 PM

None of the above

colobobcat66
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RE: What is Our Biggest Challenge?

Posted: 5/2/2015 9:41:35 PM

L.C. wrote:

colobobcat66 wrote:

Sounds to me like the G5 should break off and see what the market will pay them for televising their games. Sarcasm alert.

All true, but football is not exactly like BB where 1-2 great players can make a team competitive. When was the last time a lower level team win a championship -BYU? And the divide between the top and lower tier teams has expanded since then I think. I think that the divide will continue to expand, but I'm not sure that it's just due to corruption of the system.
The author of this poll gives 3 choices, not of which are according to him, why we are being held back from succeeding. It's mainly out terrible scheduling, others think it's because of lousy play selection or whatever. Neither would be in my top 5 or so reasons. Same old story by the complainers, just dressed up in a different disguise.
It's kind of amazing to read of the stuff people come up with to "prove " their point. Fascinating reading.

TWT
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RE: What is Our Biggest Challenge?

Posted: 5/2/2015 10:22:53 PM

colobobcat66 wrote:

L.C. wrote:

colobobcat66 wrote:

Sounds to me like the G5 should break off and see what the market will pay them for televising their games. Sarcasm alert.

I bucketed the issues into three categories. TV includes any causality of poor TV coverage such as you don't think the conference is good enough or having the TV market/location. Facilities includes donor levels. Play calling is anything related to the coaching staff being good enough or having the right personnel to run their schemes. I wanted to see how we scored when bucketed over into the details of each bucket.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

perimeterpost
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RE: What is Our Biggest Challenge?

Posted: 5/2/2015 10:43:56 PM

In 2008 a plumber from Toledo named Joe Wurzelbacher became instantly famous for challenging presidential candidate Barack Obama for his position on wanting to allow a 3% tax cut to expire that had been given to the top income bracket under Pres Bush. Allowing the tax cut to expire would raise the tax rate from 35% to 38%, as it was under Pres Clinton and Joe was against allowing it to expire.

Joe's argument was that by raising the tax rate by 3% on income over $250K it would discourage Joe from fulfilling his dream of owning his own plumbing business. At 35% it was a dream worth having, but at 38% it wasn't worth his time. Here is a guy that is probably making $40K-$50K a year saying that an opportunity to increase his personal incoming by a life changing $200K/yr wasn't worth if it in the end he would have to pay an additional $7,500 (3%) in taxes. In a follow up interview he was told that under Obama's tax plan Joe would actually pay less taxes with his current salary and he said he didn't care, he thought the rich should get the tax break instead of him. And many Americans agree with him.

This is the interesting side effect of America's unbreakable, unstoppable, ever enduring Optimism. When we see a broken system, even when we are on the losing side of it, we don't say "that's not right, we should fix that" we say "that's not right, I want to be one of the few that reaps the reward". Joe knew the system was rigged for the rich but didn't want to fix it because he thought he'd be rich one day and wanted the chips to be stacked in his favor when he got there.

To be clear, when I talk about equity I am not talking about equity in result, I am talking about equity in opportunity. In the NFL every single team receives an equal amount of league revenue, in addition every single team is held to a salary cap. By doing this the NFL insures every member of its league has EQUITY OF OPPORTUNITY. It is worth noting that neither of these actions prevent individual teams from earning as much money as they possibly can. In spite of equity of league revenue sharing the Dallas Cowboys are still worth $3.2 Billion and the St Louis Rams are worth just $930 million.

Along with providing EQUITY OF OPPORTUNITY in terms of financial resources the NFL also provides it through its direct path to a championship. There are 2 conferences with 4 divisions each and all 8 divisions get a representative in the playoffs. That means on the field the St Louis Rams and the Dallas Cowboys each have an EQUITY OF OPPORTUNITY to win a national championship.

Why is it that nobody criticizes the NFL for not distributing revenue in a way that rewards the teams that "deserve it" and punishes the teams that don't? Why is it that nobody complains that the playoff spots are given to teams from every conference and not awarded by a selection committee? Isn't a selection committee the best way to have Guardians Of The League protect the playoffs by ensuring only the teams that really, truly deserve it get to play while keeping out the riff raff that don't deserve it because they don't have as large of a fan base and might be bad for ratings? How can this equity be good for professional football but be terrible for college football?

To summarize my rant- the FBS is corrupt, it keeps rich teams rich and poor teams poor based on some good 'ol boys notion of who deserves it and who doesn't. Its awful and it needs to change. It is our Biggest Challenge, and not an easy one to address.

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TWT
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RE: What is Our Biggest Challenge?

Posted: 5/2/2015 11:08:31 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

First what is the situation on hand. Solich is under contract for two more years the 2015 & 2016 seasons but paid through June 2017. He tells the players the goal is to win the MAC Championship and a bowl game. His personal goal is to renovate the weight room, which could be a going away present from Frank upon retirement. What then is going to happen in 2015 and 2016? Probably 2 more 7-5 seasons. Does Frank get extended beyond 2016 as he will be 73 at the start of the 2017 season? That would also put him at 86 wins at Ohio. I think its possible Frank coaches 2 more after that to 2018 to give him a shot at 100 wins at Ohio and 20 overall years of FBS coaching (14 Ohio/Nebraska 6). Overall 2-4 more years of Frank counting this season but at this point he's year 2 year depending on health or if he's up for the rigor. The goals of seating expansion, a bigger conference or a New Year's Day Bowl are dead right now. The goals under this regime are to complete the facility work and a MAC Championship. Then with the facilities in place the next staff can aim higher. What we can do as fans is get our pledges in for the academic center so it will be ready in time for the next coach. Frank controls the scheduling and Frank controls the assistants. With ESPN and IPF recruiting is up already despite the mediocre success. When Frank came here he had to rely on his connections to draw kids here at first. Then he could tout the fact OHIO is on TV a lot, then the winning tradition he built and now the IPF and academic center. It was going to take 6-8 years to build the program up to the MAC Championship level and it almost happened in the 2011 season. The next coach is going to be walking into a completely different situation and will want to compete for a New Year's Bowl right off the bat.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

TWT
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RE: What is Our Biggest Challenge?

Posted: 5/2/2015 11:40:31 PM

perimeterpost wrote:

Why is it that nobody criticizes the NFL for not distributing revenue in a way that rewards the teams that "deserve it" and punishes the teams that don't? Why is it that nobody complains that the playoff spots are given to teams from every conference and not awarded by a selection committee? Isn't a selection committee the best way to have Guardians Of The League protect the playoffs by ensuring only the teams that really, truly deserve it get to play while keeping out the riff raff that don't deserve it because they don't have as large of a fan base and might be bad for ratings? How can this equity be good for professional football but be terrible for college football?

To summarize my rant- the FBS is corrupt, it keeps rich teams rich and poor teams poor based on some good 'ol boys notion of who deserves it and who doesn't. Its awful and it needs to change. It is our Biggest Challenge, and not an easy one to address.

Universities act on their own agenda. Decisions to expand enrollment because they can or compete for research dollars redirects money that was going to one school to a different school. When that 27% cut was offered to the G5, the G5 administrators were surprised by the generosity and just accepted it. They were expecting 10% and to trot the lawyers out to push for more. They thought it was a fair deal since they only supplied 10% of the schools over the last decade to the post season. Why doesn't a college grad right out of college who receives an offer of 40,000 demand 80,000? After all they are in the same company working along side people making 80,000. That is because they are just happy to be there. Then they have to stay at that job 4-5 years before they can think of hopping for more. The G5 is relatively new to the game because before the couple of conferences outside of the BCS were not collectively organized. There are more schools now outside the power structure with collective interests, none of which have any hope of becoming power conferences ever.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

colobobcat66
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RE: What is Our Biggest Challenge?

Posted: 5/2/2015 11:48:32 PM

Uncle Wes wrote:

colobobcat66 wrote:

L.C. wrote:

colobobcat66 wrote:

Sounds to me like the G5 should break off and see what the market will pay them for televising their games. Sarcasm alert.

Thanks, that helps me understand a little more what you meant, I didn't quite get that from the poll

perimeterpost
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RE: What is Our Biggest Challenge?

Posted: 5/3/2015 12:25:40 AM

Uncle Wes wrote:

They thought it was a fair deal since they only supplied 10% of the schools over the last decade to the post season.

Do you really expect me to believe that the reason the G5 only played in 10% of the bowl games is because the G5 didn't have more teams to qualify? You cannot be serious. You think that the reason a 10-2 NIU team didn't go to a bowl game in 2003 is because they didn't earn it, but a 6-6 Northwestern team did? Are you serious?

Uncle Wes wrote:

Why doesn't a college grad right out of college who receives an offer of 40,000 demand 80,000? After all they are in the same company working along side people making 80,000. That is because they are just happy to be there. Then they have to stay at that job 4-5 years before they can think of hopping for more. The G5 is relatively new to the game because before the couple of conferences outside of the BCS were not collectively organized. There are more schools now outside the power structure with collective interests, none of which have any hope of becoming power conferences ever.

Your analogy doesn't work on several levels. A salary is based on many things, including experience and job function. That's not what this is about. I don't give a rat's rear end about how "new" the G5 conferences are or not. The CFP contract in question began in 2014, in 2014 there were 10 EQUAL conferences in FBS. They should be treated equally.

And spare me this "we is so grateful to be here, ah thank you good sir for allowing us to eat your crumbs". Its humiliating. We are Division 1 FBS members and deserve fair and equitable treatment. This excuse making for a corrupt system that has no equivalent in the sports world has got to stop.

Last Edited: 5/3/2015 12:26:08 AM by perimeterpost

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OhioStunter
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RE: What is Our Biggest Challenge?

Posted: 5/3/2015 12:31:11 AM

What is our biggest challenge to what? Win a MACC? Finish the season ranked? Go to a BCS bowl?

No matter what the consensus is, I'm not buying the remote location as an excuse.

OhioCatFan
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RE: What is Our Biggest Challenge?

Posted: 5/3/2015 12:44:15 AM

The "Rim of the World Highway" begins in Athens County, so how could we be isolated from the rest of humanity? ;-)

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