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Topic: What does Ohio have in common with UCLA, Florida, Alabama, Michigan, Georgia, LSU, and lil bro osu?

Topic: What does Ohio have in common with UCLA, Florida, Alabama, Michigan, Georgia, LSU, and lil bro osu?

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C Money
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What does Ohio have in common with UCLA, Florida, Alabama, Michigan, Georgia, LSU, and lil bro osu?

Posted: 8/20/2015 2:14:29 PM

We're two weeks from kickoff, and none of these teams have named a starting QB.

I'm nervous. I'd really like to hit the panic button on the QB situation, because I really don't think our offense does much this year if we don't have stable, consistent QB play (regardless of how good the defense may be).

But then I see a factoid like this, and I think, maybe we'll be ok. Maybe.

Go Bobcats.

(Also, I'm at the beach, sipping margaritas, and thinking about college football. Life is good.)

GoCats105
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RE: What does Ohio have in common with UCLA, Florida, Alabama, Michigan, Georgia, LSU, and lil bro osu?

Posted: 8/20/2015 2:28:35 PM

C Money wrote:

A lot of those other teams are absolutely loaded at all other positions. UCLA is bringing back 19 starters I think. I'm not as worried about them as I am Ohio.

L.C.
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RE: What does Ohio have in common with UCLA, Florida, Alabama, Michigan, Georgia, LSU, and lil bro osu?

Posted: 8/20/2015 2:38:47 PM

If I thought the alternatives were all bad (as some do), I'd be more concerned. I think they are all competent, so I'm not concerned. Of the three I think Windham has the most upside as a passer, but the least experience, and therefore the most apt to make a mistake. I think Vick is the most consistent across all aspects of the game, and I think Sprague is the best scrambler.

If I were making the choices, I'd probably start Vick, and if they are in a situation where the pocket isn't holding up, use Sprague, and if they are behind and have to pass every down, use Windham.

Really, though, QB is the least of my concerns. Give me a healthy offensive line, and power running game, and the QB coach's job gets a lot easier.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Alan Swank
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RE: What does Ohio have in common with UCLA, Florida, Alabama, Michigan, Georgia, LSU, and lil bro osu?

Posted: 8/20/2015 3:00:58 PM

C Money wrote:

(Also, I'm at the beach, sipping margaritas, and thinking about college football. Life is good.)

Are you blind? :)

Kevin Finnegan
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RE: What does Ohio have in common with UCLA, Florida, Alabama, Michigan, Georgia, LSU, and lil bro osu?

Posted: 8/20/2015 3:03:12 PM

L.C. wrote:

Why are we so sure that experience is that important in this system? As I pointed out in an earlier post, only Austen Everson has shown improvement over time. There is little to show that Solich's system should value experience.

Here is the adjusted QBR (out of 100) for each starting QB during the Solich era:

Austen Everson: 2005: 18.9, 2006: 26.4

Brad Bower: 2007 (only year as starter, though he played sparingly in 2006): 30.0

Boo Jackson: 2008 (first year in system): 51.9, 2010 (missed most of 2009 with injury): 44.2

Theo Scott: 2009: 41.8 (only year as a starter)

Tyler Tettleton: 2011: 62.8, 2012: 61.1, 2013: 57.7

Last year, we had two QBs: JD Sprague: 30.8, and Derrius Vick: 63.4 (yes, that means he had the highest rating of any QB during the Solich era).

There is nothing to show that experience helps here. If Windham is performing the best, I hope he gets the nod. The program does very little to develop quarterbacks here. I wonder if that is the reason we have been unable to recruit quality players at that position.

C Money
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RE: What does Ohio have in common with UCLA, Florida, Alabama, Michigan, Georgia, LSU, and lil bro osu?

Posted: 8/20/2015 3:36:38 PM

Alan Swank wrote:

C Money wrote:

(Also, I'm at the beach, sipping margaritas, and thinking about college football. Life is good.)

Are you blind? :)

No good sir, I am not. But just in case my wife asks what I'm thinking about during those long silent stares, officially it's "college football."

Also, I have realized that margaritas are pretty much alcoholic green Kool-Aid. I think I shall add them to my tailgate menu.

L.C.
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RE: What does Ohio have in common with UCLA, Florida, Alabama, Michigan, Georgia, LSU, and lil bro osu?

Posted: 8/20/2015 4:01:49 PM

finnOhio wrote:

...There is nothing to show that experience helps here. ...

Here's the question: Is it the QB, or the offensive line that matters? Now, I happen to have my own system for rating various offensive lines, which I use for something entirely different. Let's see how the offensive lines varied under the various QBs:
Everson - The offensive line was much better in 2006 than 2005 (239 to 203)
Jackson - While the defense was much better in 2010, the offensive line was actually slightly better in 2008 than 2010 (230 to 217)
Tettleton - The offensive lines the first year and a half under Tettleton were outstanding, but there was a big drop after that (for 2011 it was 271, in 2012 it started the year at 276 but after injuries ended the year at 239, then 255 in 2013)

Interestingly, my line numbers match exactly the changes you describe - Everson getting much better, Boo getting slightly worse, and TT dropping each year. The good news is that the 2015 line should be much better than 2014 (242 to 175). That's a bigger jump than from 2005 to 2006, so, if it's about the offensive line, then both Vick and Sprague should show a bigger jump from last year than Everson saw from 2005 to 2006.

If it's really just about the QB, and not about the offensive line, the good news is that Ohio has a new QB coach as of last year. If QBs were not developing under Gdowski, that tells you nothing about whether they will develop under Isphording.

Myself, I think it's more about the offensive line, and that's why I'm confident that everyone will be surprised at how much better Vick and Sprague have suddenly gotten in just one year (and they will say "Wow, having an IPF really means improvement in the QBs" or "Wow, Isphording is doing a great job".)

Last Edited: 8/20/2015 4:06:33 PM by L.C.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Rufus25
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RE: What does Ohio have in common with UCLA, Florida, Alabama, Michigan, Georgia, LSU, and lil bro osu?

Posted: 8/20/2015 4:04:50 PM

Experience is always important, unless you have a raw freak athlete that can flat out go make plays....which we don't. I would say that because of this, experience, especially at the QB position for the Bobcats is of the utmost importance....someone who can manage the game and commit few turnovers.

The 'race' is only between JD and Vick. I aim to guess that the decision will be made on a coin flip. With a limited receiving core and O-line, it's best to go with the QB that can turn around and hand the ball off to A.J.

I think we are in a limited number of 'explosive plays' unless they are long runs. We need the QB to move the chains with quick slants and out routs on third down. Let the stable of backs carry the load and drive the ball.

As for the QB recruits....who knows. I'm waiting for a 6'3"+ that won't get blown over by a stiff wind, with an arm. [[Is that too much to ask for]]

Paul Graham
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RE: What does Ohio have in common with UCLA, Florida, Alabama, Michigan, Georgia, LSU, and lil bro osu?

Posted: 8/20/2015 4:22:36 PM

If Windham truly has the biggest upside and the only issue is "game experience" (clearly he has plenty of experience in our program), then we should kick the tires **this year***, and not next.

We know what Vick and Sprague can do....we don't yet know what Windham is capable of. It would be a shame to go all of 2015 and not have that answer.

GoCats105
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RE: What does Ohio have in common with UCLA, Florida, Alabama, Michigan, Georgia, LSU, and lil bro osu?

Posted: 8/20/2015 4:27:12 PM

Paul Graham wrote:

I too would like to see Windham in game action. Like, real game action. Not in mop-up time and not something I read about in an Arkley article. Show me something so I can make a determination.

Deciduous Forest Cat
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RE: What does Ohio have in common with UCLA, Florida, Alabama, Michigan, Georgia, LSU, and lil bro osu?

Posted: 8/20/2015 4:45:25 PM

finnOhio wrote:

L.C. wrote:

There is little to show that Solich's system should value experience.

Here is the adjusted QBR (out of 100) for each starting QB during the Solich era:

Austen Everson: 2005: 18.9, 2006: 26.4

Brad Bower: 2007 (only year as starter, though he played sparingly in 2006): 30.0

Boo Jackson: 2008 (first year in system): 51.9, 2010 (missed most of 2009 with injury): 44.2

Theo Scott: 2009: 41.8 (only year as a starter)

Tyler Tettleton: 2011: 62.8, 2012: 61.1, 2013: 57.7

Last year, we had two QBs: JD Sprague: 30.8, and Derrius Vick: 63.4 (yes, that means he had the highest rating of any QB during the Solich era).

There is nothing to show that experience helps here.

If you're going to use QBR to say Derrius Vick had the best season of any quarterback under Frank Solich then you have to acknowledge that stat to be severely flawed. The eye test and the common sense test say that simply isn't so.

Bcat2
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RE: What does Ohio have in common with UCLA, Florida, Alabama, Michigan, Georgia, LSU, and lil bro osu?

Posted: 8/20/2015 4:45:37 PM

GoCats105 wrote:

Paul Graham wrote:

I too would like to see Windham in game action. Like, real game action. Not in mop-up time and not something I read about in an Arkley article. Show me something so I can make a determination.

Riiight.

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

Casper71
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RE: What does Ohio have in common with UCLA, Florida, Alabama, Michigan, Georgia, LSU, and lil bro osu?

Posted: 8/20/2015 4:50:29 PM

Yep, you guys are right: experience matters...just ask Ohio State last year. Oh wait, the guy that won it all for them may not even be the starter this year and only started the biggest gmes of the year for them. Bottom line and truth is: You need a good QB and you need a good O-line. If either falters, the team does. That is why FB is so much more a team game than say B-ball. 22+ guys must perform rather than 3-4-5.

You ask me: I am really worried about the QB play. I guess the line will be better and I just hope that is reflected in a big improvement in CONSISTENT QB play.

Mark Lembright '85
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RE: What does Ohio have in common with UCLA, Florida, Alabama, Michigan, Georgia, LSU, and lil bro osu?

Posted: 8/20/2015 6:44:02 PM

C Money wrote:

Alan Swank wrote:

C Money wrote:

(Also, I'm at the beach, sipping margaritas, and thinking about college football. Life is good.)

Are you blind? :)

Alan and CMoney's exchange is proof-positive that Bobcatattack is by far the funniest, the most entertaining and by far best messageboard in America!! Alan's reply made me spit my beer (tonight it's a Great Lakes Burning River Pale Ale-quite refreshing) out in laughter!! Being at the beach myself last week in Va. Beach, CMoney's right-life on a beach contemplating football is good!!!!

Alan Swank
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RE: What does Ohio have in common with UCLA, Florida, Alabama, Michigan, Georgia, LSU, and lil bro osu?

Posted: 8/20/2015 8:07:47 PM

Mark Lembright '85 wrote:

C Money wrote:

Alan Swank wrote:

C Money wrote:

(Also, I'm at the beach, sipping margaritas, and thinking about college football. Life is good.)

Are you blind? :)

Glad I could add to the humor of your day, Mark. Since none of us are elected politicians or members of the board on here (I tried but came up short twice), I guess we can be a tad politically incorrect from time to time. This is a fun board when folks read the message regardless of the poster.

OhioBobcat
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RE: What does Ohio have in common with UCLA, Florida, Alabama, Michigan, Georgia, LSU, and lil bro osu?

Posted: 8/20/2015 10:37:58 PM

I'm not worried one bit. Even if a starting QB is named, we're still very likely to see two QB's play. I still think Vick is going to be named the starter but I fully expect to see Sprague out there for his share of playing time too.

Monroe Slavin
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RE: What does Ohio have in common with UCLA, Florida, Alabama, Michigan, Georgia, LSU, and lil bro osu?

Posted: 8/21/2015 12:48:59 AM

I qualify to comment here because the g.f. and i are on vaca for a couple of days in Pismo Beach, CA.

L.C., obviously it helps to have a good offensive line. But would anyone object if we could claim to have a q.b. who was good enough on his own, at times in spite of a lack of quality o-line play, to make plays.

I know your answer...just trying to make the point that it's not only the o-line and we should wonder about the seeming inability to bring in a top of MAC qb...hopefully, someone plays at All-MAC level for us this year at q.b.

With a q.b. who's only adeqaute, it would seem that there's only so far we can go, so good that we can be.

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L.C.
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RE: What does Ohio have in common with UCLA, Florida, Alabama, Michigan, Georgia, LSU, and lil bro osu?

Posted: 8/21/2015 1:45:16 AM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

L.C., obviously it helps to have a good offensive line. But would anyone object if we could claim to have a q.b. who was good enough on his own, at times in spite of a lack of quality o-line play, to make plays.

I know your answer...just trying to make the point that it's not only the o-line and we should wonder about the seeming inability to bring in a top of MAC qb...hopefully, someone plays at All-MAC level for us this year at q.b.

With a q.b. who's only adeqaute, it would seem that there's only so far we can go, so good that we can be.

Obviously some quarterbacks are inherently better than others, and having a better one is certainly a good thing. My point was not trying to contradict that, nor was it designed to compare one QB to another. Rather I was addressing the sequential changes in particular QBs. Perhaps Boo was indeed a better QB in 2010 than he was in 2008 (and I think he was), but his numbers didn't reflect that because of other factors? Similarly a lot of people felt like TT did not play as well his Senior year as he did his Sophomore year. Maybe part, or all of that decline was caused by changes in the offensive line?

By the way, this is not the first time I've made this same point. A few years ago Ohio recruited a highly sought after QB by the name of James Walsh, who had some outstanding high school numbers. I felt that he was probably over-rated because he had played in high school behind an amazing offensive line with 4 all-conference or all-State linemen. He ended up going to BC instead, but has left their program, and I have no idea where he is today.

The flip side of that is that I'm optimistic about this year's QB recruit, Maxwell, who I think is under-rated. His high school numbers were not too amazing, but, he played on a not very good team, behind a not very good line. I'm hopeful he will surprise people and improve a lot with the move to Ohio because he'll have better players in front of him.

Last Edited: 8/21/2015 1:50:39 AM by L.C.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

GoCats105
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RE: What does Ohio have in common with UCLA, Florida, Alabama, Michigan, Georgia, LSU, and lil bro osu?

Posted: 8/21/2015 6:56:39 AM

Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:

finnOhio wrote:

L.C. wrote:

Easy DFC, people around here don't think common sense is valid.

Bcat2
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RE: What does Ohio have in common with UCLA, Florida, Alabama, Michigan, Georgia, LSU, and lil bro osu?

Posted: 8/21/2015 8:35:30 AM

GoCats105 wrote:

Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:

finnOhio wrote:

L.C. wrote:

Easy DFC, people around here don't think common sense is valid.

QBR will be the best you will ever have to boost an Ohio QB. There will always be others with more yards and TDs. Those yards and TDs will not necessarily mean they were better or more important to their offense. Last season WMU had Franklin/Terrell & Davis @ 1550-24/3443-26 & 1408-15, but, NIU won the MACC with Stingily/Hare & Brown who finished with 971-14/2322-18 & 1065-6. Me, I will be happy with an NIU like finish and people grumbling about not having/developing QBs.

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

The Optimist
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RE: What does Ohio have in common with UCLA, Florida, Alabama, Michigan, Georgia, LSU, and lil bro osu?

Posted: 8/21/2015 8:36:51 AM

GoCats105 wrote:

C Money wrote:

A lot of those other teams are absolutely loaded at all other positions. UCLA is bringing back 19 starters I think. I'm not as worried about them as I am Ohio.

And Ohio brings back 18 starters. Or is it 17?

Either way, I think the major reason for optimism around here is the experience on this roster. What better situation for a Quarterback to be in then to return 5 starters on the offensive line along with a stable of running backs?

I'm not comparing Ohio to UCLA or any team listed above. Not drawing comparisons there doesn't stop me from being excited about the prospects for this team.

EDIT: I reread "a major reason for the optimism around here" and LOL'd. This board is overly negative, as always.

Last Edited: 8/21/2015 8:39:16 AM by The Optimist

I've seen crazier things happen.

GoCats105
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RE: What does Ohio have in common with UCLA, Florida, Alabama, Michigan, Georgia, LSU, and lil bro osu?

Posted: 8/21/2015 8:50:14 AM

The Optimist wrote:

GoCats105 wrote:

C Money wrote:

A lot of those other teams are absolutely loaded at all other positions. UCLA is bringing back 19 starters I think. I'm not as worried about them as I am Ohio.

I believe it's 15...but your point is valid.

Monroe Slavin
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RE: What does Ohio have in common with UCLA, Florida, Alabama, Michigan, Georgia, LSU, and lil bro osu?

Posted: 8/21/2015 11:38:25 AM

I hope all the optimism is correct.

I kinda buy into thought that we can be only limited good within a standout qb. Standout at least to the extent of clearly distinguishing himself by this point in camp as the starter. (Diff to believe that we have three guys who are both even at this point and top 20-30% of MAC).

Monroe Slavin
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RE: What does Ohio have in common with UCLA, Florida, Alabama, Michigan, Georgia, LSU, and lil bro osu?

Posted: 8/21/2015 11:39:01 AM

So, who starts this year game one?

L.C.
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RE: What does Ohio have in common with UCLA, Florida, Alabama, Michigan, Georgia, LSU, and lil bro osu?

Posted: 8/21/2015 12:25:22 PM

GoCats105 wrote:

The Optimist wrote:

And Ohio brings back 18 starters. Or is it 17?
...

I believe it's 15...but your point is valid.

Partly it depends on how you count them. Returning starters:
OFFENSE
Powell - 12 starts
Watson - 12 starts
McQueen - 11 starts
Lucas - 11 starts
Preuhs - 11 starts
Mangen - 11 starts
Vick - 7 starts
Cope - 7 starts
Ouellette - 6 starts
Patterson - 6 starts
S. Smith 6 starts
Sprague - 5 starts
Morgan - 2 starts
Walker - 2 starts
Reid - 1 start
McCray - 1 start
Lowery - 1 start
Gibbons - 1 start [plus 2 in 2013]
Wood - [3 starts in 2013, missed 2014 win injury]
Add these up and divide by 12, and you get 9.4 starters. Do it on a position by position basis, and you have all the starts for offensive line, QB, RB, and TE, plus you get to count Cope and S. Smith since they each have 6 or more, and that gets you to 10.

The flip side is who you are missing:
L. Smith 5 starts
Bradley 1 start
Cochran 12 starts

Myself, I'd say offense returns about 9 1/2 starters, but the a lot of people will call that 10.

DEFENSE
Poling - 12 starts
J. Johnson - 12 starts
Wells - 11 starts
Bass - 9 starts
B. Brown - 7 starts
D. Jones - 7 starts
Sayles - 7 starts
Basham - 7 starts
Moore - 4 starts
Laseak - 3 starts
Layton - 3 starts
Purdum - 2 starts [plus 10-15 starts in 2012-2013]
T. Davis - 2 starts
Carpenter - 1 start [plus 10-15 starts in 2012-2013]

Then, the ones missing are:
Crutcher - 11 starts
McLeod - 10 starts
Ingol - 10 starts
Kristoff - 7 starts
K. Smith - 6 starts
w. Johnson - 1 start

Add these up and you have 84 starts, or 7.3 returning starters. On a position by position basis, it gets tricky. You have all the starts at CB and almost all at LB, and almost none of them at DT. How do you count DE, where you have 3 of the four that shared the spot back? How do you count safety, where you have Jones, Carpenter, and T. Davis back, but are missing Kristoff and Ingol?

If you just add up the whole team, and combine 9.4 and 7.3 you'd say you have about 17 returning starters. Fair enough, but that isn't giving you any credit for Wood, Purdum, and Carpenter, who were starters in 2012 and/or 2013, but who didn't play much, or didn't play at all in 2014.

Another way to look at it is to projected the 22 starters, and look at how many prior starts each has:
LT - McQueen (11) McCray (1)
LG - Lucas (11) Lowery (1)
C - Powell (12) Preuhs (11)
RG - Wood (3 at end of 2013) Gibbons (1, plus some in 2013)
T - Watson (12)
TE - Mangen (yes, I know he's out with injury) (11) Morgan (2)
WR - Cope - (7)
WR - S. Smith (6)
WR - Reid (1)

S - Carpenter (1, plus about 15 in 2011-2013)
S - Jones (7) T. Davis (2)
CB - Layton (3) Bass (9)
CB - Wells (11)
MLB - Poling (12)
WLB - Brown (7) Moore (4)
SLB - Johnson (12)
DE - Laseak (3)
DE - Basham (7)
NG - Tautuaiki (none)
DT - Sayles (7) Purdum (1, plus about 15 in 2013-3014)

The only spots without a lot of starting experience are one WR spot, one DE spot, and NG. Figuring this way it looks more like 19 returning starters, plus of course, you also return the punter and place kicker.

I'd say any number from 17 to 19 could be justified. 15 is definitely low, even if you subtract Mangen, who may be out for the season.

Last Edited: 8/21/2015 1:58:02 PM by L.C.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

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