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Topic: Groan

Topic: Groan

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JSF
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Groan

Posted: 4/13/2011 12:08:42 PM

http://www.thepost.ohiou.edu/content/baseball-%E2%80%99ca...

I'm of the opinion Carbone doesn't believe much of what he says to the media, but if you take him at face value, does he have charts of every runner's speed, opposing pitcher time-to-plate, and opposing catcher plate-to-base times? Seems like a messy operation.

But the sacrifice bunting is what frustrates me. You have a league with poor pitching, some good hitters on your team (even if they're not quite as good last year), and a ballpark that is like HGH for runs. And you want to just give outs away? Dumb, dumb. Maybe runs are at a premium in part because you're looking to sacrifice all the time.

Meanwhile, Eliot Kalman continues to blaze new trails in self-righteous stupidity:

http://www.athensnews.com/ohio/article-33673-copperheads-...

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

BattleCat
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RE: Groan

Posted: 4/13/2011 9:51:37 PM

JSF, the game is radically different than the past few years. Check out the numbers, Bob Wren is not the launching pad it was with the HGH bats. And the MAC's pitching is quite strong under the new circumstances.

JSF, you mention a team of good hitters. Have you actually been to a game this year? The Bobcats are batting a league low (10th of 12), .244 avg, we are 9th in slg%, we are a full 59 points below last years average. That my fellow Bobcat is not the numbers that good hitters put up. We have got to do a better job of getting them on, getting them over and getting them in!
Our pitching which is our strong suit sitting 6th in the MAC, is caring this team.

Last Edited: 4/13/2011 10:02:49 PM by BattleCat

Donuts
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RE: Groan

Posted: 4/13/2011 11:34:05 PM

I have to agree with this. Sure the bats are different, whatever. Even with wood you don't sacrifice in many areas. There are other ways to move the runner. This isn't the deadball era. There is thorough statistical evidence that goes against runner and sacrificing excessively. Coaches need to know that.

Instead of this new scientific and simple math approach, how about a sabermetric approach? It would make a lot more sense than what these numbers being thrown out in the article. In all actuality, if I gave this article to a lot of baseball minds, they would question it like crazy. This is not progressive thinking. The game has changed and with all the information out there you can use to better you squad and make smarter decisions, you are stuck playing the gambling spin game that is forcing the steal issue.

Come on, it's not time to hit the panic button because you can't hit jam shot home runs every at-bat. Opponents have a .383 OBP this year against a pitching staff that returned a ton of people. How about finding ways to stop the running game against us? Need better defenders (I feel that has always been overlooked in baseball period. Who cares if a guy can mash but gives the runs back with stone hands and little range? Need quality defense).

Sit back, crunch the right numbers and track the right numbers, and stop messing around with sacrifice bunts to death and forcing the steal issue with not so fast guys. That's the opposite of the direction this team should be going after a rough patch.

Attempting more steals at a worse success rate kind of defeats the purpose, doesn't it? I wonder what the sacrifice bunt success rate is? Can't hit? Quit giving away outs when 1 out of 17 balls put in play are booted or thrown away by the opposite team.

That's my simple math.

Last Edited: 4/14/2011 12:00:08 AM by Donuts

SouthernCat
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RE: Groan

Posted: 4/14/2011 10:33:07 AM

JSF wrote:

Most coaches usually time in game.

bobcat28
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RE: Groan

Posted: 4/14/2011 11:44:09 AM

The stopwatches are a good thing. At least we're making decisions using quantitative decisions. But you're talking about a program that cant even upload the latest media guide to the website, doesnt realize the benefit of creating social media programs for marketing and recruiting purposes, and you want them to use Sabermetrics? Would love to get some Math major in as an intern and really crunch the numbers for us.

Donuts
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RE: Groan

Posted: 4/14/2011 12:09:20 PM

I wish more data was available online. When a team hits poorly, they can't be giving away precious outs by just giving themselves up. For example, guy on 2nd with no outs. Is this when they are bunting now? They need to track how this sacrifice bunting is paying off for them. Statistical evidence at the MLB level will show you more often than not that out you wasted could have been better used. Maybe the 8 or 9 hole hitter should sac bunt, that's about it.

As for stolen bases, I'd much rather see the team run more aggressively on hits. When I was playing I felt like we could easily take that extra bag if we were going hard and the guy had speed. It's putting the pressure on shaky defenses when more things can go wrong. It's safer than stealing bases. It's not like I'm some sabermetric head who would want every decision to be made that way, but the sacrifice bunt for the most part shouldn't even be an option. Choking up, putting the ball in play and making things happen will yield a lot more results in the long run. The only reason it's still around I feel is because there is no basic "PGOTRSOI" (productive out to right side of infield). Sac bunts are tracked so they must be worth something, right? Yeah, right up there with batting average and RBI by itself.

JSF
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RE: Groan

Posted: 4/17/2011 12:28:58 PM

They time in-game? Interesting. My thought is how they do it and if they are fast enough to get an accurate time. One or two tenths of a second makes a huge difference, no?

And there's now live tweeting of baseball and softball games. There's growth on the social media front.

Oh, and BattleCat: Someone crunched the numbers a year or two ago and showed Bob Wren is still a launching pad.

I don't know where to find stats. I see batting average, but what about OBP? Are we drawing walks, or are we swinging at bad pitches?

Last Edited: 4/17/2011 12:30:31 PM by JSF

Donuts
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RE: Groan

Posted: 4/17/2011 1:38:53 PM

Didn't see much difference in OBP from this year to past years proportionally. The fact is, this team is just not good at hitting it looks like. The pitchers are still giving up runs and other teams are finding ways to score. Might be a drop off around the country, but not to the degree OU is experiencing.

And yeah, stopwatch timing to get such finite information on the fly isn't a very exact science. Not to mention factoring in jumps, the pitch being thrown, lead, etc.

JSF
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RE: Groan

Posted: 4/17/2011 6:19:19 PM

Heh. The weather warms up and the balls were flying again today.

Re: Sacrifice bunts: In the first inning of today's second game, NIU got their first two guys on base, and the third hitter tried to sacrifice bunt. I wanted to scream, "WHAT ARE YOU DOING?" You want your #3 hitter laying down a bunt with two on and no out? What in the world is wrong with that coach? Almost to prove my point, he nearly pops out, then ropes a drive an inch foul and crushes one off the wall in center.

Finally, what is it with our pitchers with a guy on first base? They're obsessed. I don't know why you'd throw over that many times.

Donuts
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RE: Groan

Posted: 4/17/2011 7:06:15 PM

JSF wrote:

Finally, what is it with our pitchers with a guy on first base? They're obsessed. I don't know why you'd throw over that many times.

Staffs have been informed to throw over a MINIMUM of 5 times when certain fast runners are on.

JSF
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RE: Groan

Posted: 4/18/2011 11:16:55 AM

What? That's crazy. Doesn't that take some focus off the batter?

Catdude
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RE: Groan

Posted: 4/18/2011 4:04:32 PM

Yea,,, keeping fast runners close is a bad idea!! Let them get big leads and good jumps,,, sounds like a better idea. geeze

JSF
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RE: Groan

Posted: 4/18/2011 7:44:05 PM

You're telling me throwing over 5+ times accomplishes more than 1 or 2?

BattleCat
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RE: Groan

Posted: 4/19/2011 8:40:54 AM

JSF wrote:

Hello, McFly, the new bat standards came into effect THIS year, so any information on last year is a mute point!

OBP is currently .334, compared to .378 last year. Not sure what some are complaining about regarding stats, they are all readily available on-line. Maybe that Corriher dude could snail mail you a copy every Monday morning, would that make you feel better?

Last Edited: 4/19/2011 8:51:34 AM by BattleCat

Its all Boeh's Fault
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RE: Groan

Posted: 4/19/2011 9:07:01 AM

First I seriously doubt that the bats have much to do with the team hitting a combined .252

To put that .252 into perspective, the Copperheads hit .267 last year in the Great Lakes League which is wooden bat. And no, the Great Lakes isn't better than the MAC. Those Copperheads are loaded with D3 players year in and year out. And if you look at the roster and say "They got 4 guys from Michigan State", Mich St isn't good. That's why the Bobcats beat them every time they show up to town.

Second, I don't mine the Sac bunt here or there, in important situations late in the game. Maybe a weak hitter is up, who is struggling and you need that 1 run really bad, sure I'm ok with that. Other than that I don't think so. You get only 27 outs in a game. I hate to see us give them up. Why not try and a hit & run?

I'm with Donuts on being aggressive on the base paths. Put some pressure on the other team. Make the outfielder hit the cutoff man perfectly, then have the infielder turn and throw and make a good throw to the catcher, have him block the plate and make a tag. If you watch MLB, it doesn't happen all that often. There are so many things that have to go right in order to hose a guy at the plate. I'd rather see the overly aggressive base running when we do have runners on, than this sac bunting bs.

FYI, we are 10th (out of 12) in the league in hitting and fielding. Amazingly enough, we are 6th in pitching (ERA).

Its amazing we've won 16 games considering we can't hit or field. It's a shame we are wasting our staff's 4.40 ERA. That is by far the best in recent memory. If we had this kind of pitching results in the past, we probably would have made the MAC Tournament a couple more times.

BattleCat
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RE: Groan

Posted: 4/19/2011 10:50:39 AM

NCAA batting averages are way down this season, this is not a phenom that is only effecting Ohio (not making any excuses here for our performance, just stating that the hitting is an issue every school in the country is facing). The Copperheads are better than the average to below average MAC team in my opinion, and there are many very good baseball players at the DIII level. In fact a high school baseball player can go to school at Marietta cheaper with so/so grades than he could go to Ohio University on a scholarship (by the time you divide 11.9 or so by DI roster).

In the last 40 years Marietta College has the same number MLB players that Ohio University has, but note Ohio has had only ONE since the mid 70's. And that horrible Michigan State team has put 10 guys in the Show in the past 40 years where Ohio University has put 4 and only 1 in the past 34 years.

JSF
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RE: Groan

Posted: 4/19/2011 10:50:56 AM

BattleCat wrote:

JSF wrote:

Dude, calm down. All I said is that I don't know where to find stats, not that they aren't out there. I'm glad they're readily available; I'll have to try again.

And we should at least wait for the season to end to see if the new bats have a big effect. The balls certainly didn't have much problem leaving the yard last weekend.

Donuts
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RE: Groan

Posted: 4/19/2011 11:26:50 AM

Again, I don't care how much numbers are down across the board. Anyone who has played or watch, say, 2 innings or more at Trautwein Field can tell you it's one of the most hitter friendly D1 ballparks in the Midwest. No foul line area, winds coming down the hill, sun shining in the outfielder's and pitcher's face, fence distances that are flat out lies, etc. I would love to see any data out there with splits home and away, I'm sure it would be a complete joke and show how hitter friendly it is in Athens.

Donuts
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RE: Groan

Posted: 4/19/2011 11:31:45 AM

BattleCat wrote:

It's not a "mute", moot or any other way you try to make your point.

Just because the bats have changed doesn't mean the field changed. It is still a launching pad proportionally. Unless with the bat change came a rule that when you say a field is 340 down the line it has to be 340, and another rule saying you must have more than five feet of foul territory, the field hasn't changed. It's still a hitter's dream, a pitcher's nightmare, and the best place in Ohio to see a double digit scoring D1 college baseball game. So therefore, him stating it is still a launching pad is a very valid point.

BattleCat
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RE: Groan

Posted: 4/19/2011 11:49:31 AM

The Cats are currently 2nd in Homeruns, never said the stadium still does not give up more than it's share, but the field does not play nearly as friendly as it once did. However in conference play the stadium is giving up considerably less homeruns to the home team.

In all games the Cats have hit a total of 24 homeruns and they have played 21 games at home. The Cats have played a total of 12 MAC games (6 at home) and have hit only 6 Homeruns in league play. Numbers at home and on the road have dropped significantly

JSF: Just because that bornacatfan is peeing on your cheerios please don't think that I am, I was just stating to whom ever posted that stats are not available that they infact are easily obtainable.

Donuts
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RE: Groan

Posted: 4/19/2011 12:15:46 PM

The field definitely plays just as friendly. NOTHING CHANGED. You could put two bad D4 baseball teams on that field and it would be a hitter's park. It's a pretty basic concept. If the one constant is the bat, the variables are the different fields.

Also, once again, these metal bats are still more powerful and durable than wood bats. Proportionally, you can't make any significant judgments from 12 MAC games. Look back at all the data though and Bob Wren is a hitter's paradise. If you can't hit when half your games are played there, you simply just can't hit.

JSF
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RE: Groan

Posted: 4/19/2011 12:19:48 PM

So then it's not the field, it's the hitters. The Park Factor probably is similar to what it's been.

And you hit me with a "Hello, McFly" and a sarcastic barb about Corriher mailing me stats every week. I think I was within bounds.

BattleCat
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RE: Groan

Posted: 4/19/2011 12:42:37 PM

JSF wrote:

The biggest difference is not the park and it is not the players, but rather the equipment. The technology on these bats was rolled back years, and done so in a quick manner that caught the bat companies unprepared. In fact the best performing bat right now was absolutely one of the worse last year.

Donuts
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RE: Groan

Posted: 4/19/2011 1:07:24 PM

So in other words teams are stuck using equipment that acts more like the stuff they'd use if they all achieve their goal, which is to play professional baseball? Well, except for the fact these bats rarely break and they still have more pop, just not as much pop as they are used to swinging freely?

Quit painting this picture that they are using wiffle ball bats up there or something. Good lord that excuse got old really fast. Did they make the balls softer too? Push the mound up six inches and in six inches?

It's almost as though you have engrained this thing in your head that every time someone gets out, well it's the bats. Hopefully that isn't what the players are doing. Let's blame the equipment, it can't possibly be that this year you can't fist a double off the wall anymore. That was always some great hitting I saw at Trautwein. Getting fooled extra base hits.

Its all Boeh's Fault
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RE: Groan

Posted: 4/19/2011 5:53:19 PM

BattleCat wrote:

In fact a high school baseball player can go to school at Marietta cheaper with so/so grades than he could go to Ohio University on a scholarship (by the time you divide 11.9 or so by DI roster).

In the last 40 years Marietta College has the same number MLB players that Ohio University has, but note Ohio has had only ONE since the mid 70's. And that horrible Michigan State team has put 10 guys in the Show in the past 40 years where Ohio University has put 4 and only 1 in the past 34 years.

Here's some local D3 school's tuition
1) Otterbein tution in 2010-11 = $28,413
2) Ohio Wesleyan tuition in 2011-12 = $37,580
3) Marietta College Tuition in 2010-11= $27,640

2010-11 school year for Ohio U, tuition was at $9,537

So what kind of scholarships are they giving out there?

If D3 Schools so good, what is the Bobcats record against them? I know very rarely do the Bobcats lose to a non D1 team. Carbone is around a .500 coach if that if you take away all those non-D1 wins.

All I know about Michigan State is in 2003 we took 3 of 4 and in 2006 we split a 4 game series. I was not very impressed with them.

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