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Topic: No "D" No "W"

Topic: No "D" No "W"

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71 BOBCAT
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No "D" No "W"

Posted: 3/1/2012 8:07:48 AM

This team must rely on playing good to great "D" because we are not a good shooting team. We haven't shot well all season and we will continue to lose games if our "D" is not good.
It's as simple as that.
Why can't we play good to great "D" every game that's the real question?

GO BOBCATS

shabamon
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RE: No "D" No "W"

Posted: 3/1/2012 8:13:01 AM

You're blaming last night on the defense?

I'll let Jim Mora explain it: www.youtube.com/watch

Turnovers and offensive ineptitude cost us the game. Our defense provided plenty of opportunities to overcome in the second half and we couldn't get it done.

Last Edited: 3/1/2012 8:14:34 AM by shabamon

medler
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RE: No "D" No "W"

Posted: 3/1/2012 9:01:54 AM

shabamon wrote:

Beat me to it. Kent State didn't have a FG...and only 4 points from FTs....in a 8-10 minute stretch of the 2nd half. We couldn't capitalize on the offensive end.

Let's GO HAWKS!

JSF
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RE: No "D" No "W"

Posted: 3/1/2012 9:13:08 AM

medler wrote:

shabamon wrote:

Beat me to it. Kent State didn't have a FG...and only 4 points from FTs....in a 8-10 minute stretch of the 2nd half. We couldn't capitalize on the offensive end.

Plus, whenever you can work a Jim Mora rant in, you're winning.

And why can't we play great defense every game? Are you serious? Sometimes, I think some of y'all forget this game is being played by humans and young ones at that.

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

giacomo
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RE: No "D" No "W"

Posted: 3/1/2012 9:14:41 AM

There was disturbing posession late in the game when we're down 5, get a steal and DJ shoots a three about 4 feet from the line. He does that alot and it may be okay if you're up 10, but not in that situation. I would expect him to make a better decision.

71 BOBCAT
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RE: No "D" No "W"

Posted: 3/1/2012 9:18:20 AM

If you guys are saying the 41 points in the 1st half is not the fault of the "D" then I guess we watched a different game. We did not cause equal TO's and we did not create steals which is all part of playing great "D".

GO BOBCATS

JSF
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RE: No "D" No "W"

Posted: 3/1/2012 9:20:04 AM

71 BOBCAT wrote:

You're asking too much of the defense to equal turnovers in that first half. We had 15 turns. And A LOT of Kent's points came on run outs and fast breaks. Again, not right to lay that on the defense.

Deciduous Forest Cat
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RE: No "D" No "W"

Posted: 3/1/2012 9:37:37 AM

71 BOBCAT wrote:

anyone who watched the game would have no problem saying exactly that. We flat out handed them 10 points with sloppy play that led to easy run outs and to kent's credit they created at least 6 very easy points with hustle plays on loose balls, some of those were created by our defense, but a couple unlucky bounces cost us. 15 turnovers in one half. That's awful. Kent beat us at our own game.

on another topic, the refs have to be on the take from Justin Greene's family. I've never seen a player get away with more physical contact in one game, yet manage to get a call everytime someone breathes on him the wrong way. that was frickin ridiculous. I know we were down big at the time but Groce's Technical was absolutely warranted. We were getting hosed.

Casper71
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RE: No "D" No "W"

Posted: 3/1/2012 9:46:45 AM

Some of you sound like the coach. He constantly blames the "D" for losses. Sure, 41 in one half is a lot of points but they followed that up with 27 in the second. That is 68 points for the game. That is pretty much the average defense for this team. The "O" on the other hand scored just 17 the first half and had at least five really bad possessions in a row (3s from 28 feet the first 10 seconds of the shot clock, misses at the rim and turnovers among them) late in the second half. Bottom line is 61 points like some of the 50s we've had in other losses will NOT win many games. Most of our losses are squarely on the offense and our lack of ability to get into any kind of offense. We stand around the perimeter and dont move. When we hit shots we look great but when we are off, we are horrid. Last night, offensively we were horrid.

Ohio Pilot
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RE: No "D" No "W"

Posted: 3/1/2012 10:13:46 AM

giacomo wrote:

Cooper was they only one who showed up last night. Can't blame this on him. 23 points 5 rebound 4 assists. Not a bad stat line. Just look at the rest of the box score and its bad.

Andrew Ruck
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RE: No "D" No "W"

Posted: 3/1/2012 10:14:47 AM

No question the incredibly inept ball handling on offense created the apparent awful defense in the 1st half. I couldn't believe what I was watching with all those dumb turnovers, it was pretty incredible. It is amazing we were still in it til the last minute.

Fact remains I still consider us the favorite on a neutral court versus anyone in the conference.

Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

Brufus
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RE: No "D" No "W"

Posted: 3/1/2012 10:58:45 AM

I do think defense was a little bit of the problem last night, but that hasn't really been the case for this season. Matter of fact, RMU and Toledo were the only games we've lost and let them score 70+. The other five losses the other team 68 or fewer (Maybe their new goal should be to make sure the opponent gets any score except 68, because that's what Akron away, EMU, and Kent away all got, but I digress). The bigger problem I think is converting on offensive opportunities. I remember seeing a graphic last night that Kent didn't get an FG for almost 10 minutes in the second half, yet they were still up by 6. We just need to take smarter shots.

Brufus
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RE: No "D" No "W"

Posted: 3/1/2012 11:01:23 AM

Ohio Pilot wrote:

giacomo wrote:

Cooper was they only one who showed up last night. Can't blame this on him. 23 points 5 rebound 4 assists. Not a bad stat line. Just look at the rest of the box score and its bad.

Yeah he had 23 points, but 3-11 from 3-point range? T.J. had the second most attempts with 4 and he made half of those...

OUVan
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RE: No "D" No "W"

Posted: 3/1/2012 11:03:50 AM

If I see Reggie Keely and Ivo Baltic take more than one 17 foot jumper in any given game I'm going to throw my shoe through my TV. We had zero offensive movement in the first half. We were slow setting picks and slow rolling off the picks that were set. We were passive on the few drives we did try (the refs did us no favors by allowing Kent to beat the crap out of us during the big first half run). Nobody and I repeat nobody cut to the basket. We had three guys five feet outside the three point line with flat feet holding out their hands with Keely outside the free throw line. Kent punched us in the mouth and we took it.

Ted Thompson
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RE: No "D" No "W"

Posted: 3/1/2012 11:06:46 AM

Early in the game, it looked like Ohio was trying to double or trap on everything in the half-court which I thought led to some good looks for Kent. But most of their first half points come off Ohio turnovers. In the second half, they held Kent St. without a basket for about 10 minutes. I think that overall the half-court defense did the job. But offense was another matter.

Ohio had 5 empty possessions at 53-43. Despite that, Ohio had a chance at 59-56. But a bad foul by Kellogg and bad three by Cooper did them in.

As Reghi/MIx pointed out and has been said here often, Ohio is at its best when Cooper keeps his shots down. He took 8 shots in the first half and no other Bobcat had more than three. Guys need touches on offense to get their game going. Offutt had very few touches and had just one shot at half. Not to beat the dead horse, but DJ takes too many threes. If you have the ability to drive like he does, you are letting the opponent off the hook when you jack up those threes. Offutt got to the line 10 times on 4 shots while DJ got to the line 3 times off 21 shots.

I'm also not sure what has happened to Ivo Baltic. He has a great post game. But I haven't seen him make a strong move to the basket in I don't know how many games. He has fallen in love with the fade-away and with baseline jumpers. His defender fell down last night and instead of going to the hole he took a jumper. Maybe he's injured? Keely had an off night with 6 turnovers but he's been consistently good as of late.

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OUVan
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RE: No "D" No "W"

Posted: 3/1/2012 11:11:42 AM

Brufus wrote:

Yeah he had 23 points, but 3-11 from 3-point range? T.J. had the second most attempts with 4 and he made half of those...

You realize that he took about four of those as the shot clock was winding down, right? Which player who was standing still do you think he should have let take those shots?

Casper71
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RE: No "D" No "W"

Posted: 3/1/2012 11:31:25 AM

An article recently pointed out that DJ is at his BEST when he is distributing the ball and "running" the team. He is not as good when he shoots 11 three pointers because he only shoots 28% from long range. While some of his shots are as the clock winds down (because we run no offensive patterns that are effective) many are in the first 10 secs of the shot clock (I remember at least two that were like that). He may be open but they are shots we could have at any time during the possession. The point many on here are making is that three years in, his decision making needs to improve for us to go anywhere.

Andrew Ruck
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RE: No "D" No "W"

Posted: 3/1/2012 11:33:36 AM

This debate will rage on until DJ graduates and probably for years afterwards. It would be a lot easier if people would understand:

DJ takes some really good threes.
He takes some really bad threes.
He takes some desperation end of shot clock threes.
He is really really really good.
He could be better.
Much of the responsibility and analysis of the offense will fall on the point guard as he Quaterbacks the team and is the primary tone-setter for how each posession progresses.

All 6 of those bullet points were on full display last night.

Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

OUVan
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RE: No "D" No "W"

Posted: 3/1/2012 11:42:38 AM

Casper71 wrote:

DJ isn't without blame but when DJ is taking a lot of shots it is generally because others on the court aren't working for theirs. But the fact that DJ is the focus of anything this morning astounds me. He and T.J. Hall were the only two players who looked like they were ready to play the game last night. Everybody's love object Walter Offut was a stump for much of the night. He woke up in the second half but by then it was too late.

athena
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RE: No "D" No "W"

Posted: 3/1/2012 11:52:54 AM

What exactly do people expect DJ to do when other players are not only not making their shots, but are also having trouble even catching the ball?

I don't see how this is on DJ at all.

giacomo
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RE: No "D" No "W"

Posted: 3/1/2012 11:57:12 AM

I love DJ and he's our best player. But when you get down to the wire in a close game, a big game, you shouldn't be jacking up a long three in that situation, on a fast break after a steal. They are struggling, just turned it over, and if we get fouled or score, we're down three. Big difference. I would just expect someone with his experience level and poise to make a better decision.

Steve
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RE: No "D" No "W"

Posted: 3/1/2012 12:03:18 PM

Seemed to me our terrible ball handling led to a lot of points for them, which made our defense look worse than it actually was.

41
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RE: No "D" No "W"

Posted: 3/1/2012 12:09:04 PM

Did you see the adjustment that Kent did last night...we were trapping the ball screens with our posts, and then they'd hit the post player who set the screen and he'd have the ball 18 feet from the basket - just like we do with our posts - and their posts are not threats out there.

They changed and had a 3pt shooter set the screen, then instead of rolling to the hoop, the screener shaped up and created space by going behind the arc and our rotation couldn't get there fast enough and they hit a few threes that way..

Could we have Kellogg screen for DJ - then if they dbl you have a shooter receiving the outlet pass instead of a post player?

Played hard, fought to come back, just too many turnovers

Ted Thompson
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RE: No "D" No "W"

Posted: 3/1/2012 12:38:59 PM

OUVan wrote:

Casper71 wrote:

Van,

I don't think anyone is saying this is all on DJ. Ivo, Reggie and Walt didn't have great nights either. Although I think Walt didn't get many touches in the first half. DJ is a great player and I think we all agree his jersey will hang in the rafters someday. At times, he is breath-taking to watch. It's such an advantage to have a player of his caliber. Especially when you remember how we wandered through the PG desert in the TOS years. I'm not sure why we can't suggest some part of his game could be better without people getting so defensive.

I went through and looked at the play-by-play from last night. There was one three (5:34 left in the game) he took with less than 5 seconds on the shot clock and I remember that play. I think Kellogg and or Baltic were messing with the ball by the Kent St. bench and they chucked it to DJ with about :05 on the shot clock. But other than that, I'm not sure he got stuck with any. 9 of 11 3-point attempts came with :19 or more left on the shot clock.

Half	Time	Shot Clock	Made/miss
1	19:08	:19	Made
1	15:27	:33	Miss
1	14:42	:33	Miss
1	10:15	:19	Miss
1	6:47	:28	Miss
2	15:30	:20	Made
2	14:11	:08	Miss
2	8:44	:24	Miss
2	5:34	:03	Miss
2	3:18	:24	Made
2	1:09	:26	Miss

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Andrew Ruck
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RE: No "D" No "W"

Posted: 3/1/2012 1:05:02 PM

Only 2 were with less than 19 seconds left. But some of those early in the shot clock 3s were good shots...I am OK with him toeing the line and firing a three when the defender is not in his face.

I refer back to my bullet point list...We are going to go in circles on this discussion forever.

Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

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