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We will get by. We will get by. We will survive. Back to Top LuckySparrow General User Member Since: 10/15/2012 Location: Illinois Post Count: 1,722 Status: Offline     RE: Week 11 MAC schedule    Posted: 11/2/2023 8:01:19 AM  Bank a win against Buffalo on the road (easier said then done) they PRAY for a miracle from Akron! What a day at the Convo.....Wow! Back to Top Mike Johnson General User Member Since: 11/11/2004 Location: North Canton, OH Post Count: 1,707 Status: Offline     RE: Week 11 MAC schedule    Posted: 11/2/2023 8:33:11 AM  LuckySparrow wrote: Bank a win against Buffalo on the road (easier said then done) they PRAY for a miracle from Akron! Last night against Kent, Akron came from behind 27-10 to win 31-27. http://www.facebook.com/mikejohnson.author Back to Top AlumDadDad General User Member Since: 10/18/2015 Post Count: 525 Status: Offline     RE: Week 11 MAC schedule    Posted: 11/2/2023 11:10:33 AM  Unfortunately, our faint hopes lie in Fiami losing to two of the following: two 2-7 teams, and one 3-6 team. And Ohio winning out. But - would that unlikely scenario really result in the MAC East being represented by the best team in the division? Back to Top Deciduous Forest Cat General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Ohio Post Count: 4,319 Status: Offline     RE: Week 11 MAC schedule    Posted: 11/2/2023 12:09:10 PM  AlumDadDad wrote: Unfortunately, our faint hopes lie in Fiami losing to two of the following: two 2-7 teams, and one 3-6 team. And Ohio winning out. But - would that unlikely scenario really result in the MAC East being represented by the best team in the division? If that happens, could you still honestly say Miami was the best team in the division? I guess ... maybe? but also probably not. Back to Top AlumDadDad General User Member Since: 10/18/2015 Post Count: 525 Status: Offline     RE: Week 11 MAC schedule    Posted: 11/2/2023 12:48:47 PM  Deciduous Forest Cat wrote: AlumDadDad wrote: Unfortunately, our faint hopes lie in Fiami losing to two of the following: two 2-7 teams, and one 3-6 team. And Ohio winning out. But - would that unlikely scenario really result in the MAC East being represented by the best team in the division? If that happens, could you still honestly say Miami was the best team in the division? I guess ... maybe? but also probably not. You have an excellent point. I'm guilty of looking through the lens of our present situation. Back to Top Pataskala General User Member Since: 7/8/2010 Location: At least six feet away from anybody else Post Count: 9,154 Status: Offline     RE: Week 11 MAC schedule    Posted: 11/2/2023 12:52:53 PM  Deciduous Forest Cat wrote: AlumDadDad wrote: Unfortunately, our faint hopes lie in Fiami losing to two of the following: two 2-7 teams, and one 3-6 team. And Ohio winning out. But - would that unlikely scenario really result in the MAC East being represented by the best team in the division? If that happens, could you still honestly say Miami was the best team in the division? I guess ... maybe? but also probably not. The winner of the East is rarely the "best" team in the division. It's usually the one with the fewest injuries or the one that gets its act together at the right time. Last season we probably weren't the best team but we stayed healthy on offense for most of the season and got a healthy defense at the right time. MOFO is fortunate this season to have a backup QB with experience. They're not more talented than we are but they don't seem to be as out of sync as we are. We will get by. We will get by. We will get by. We will survive. Back to Top SBH General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Post Count: 3,767 Status: Offline     RE: Week 11 MAC schedule    Posted: 11/2/2023 5:32:40 PM  AlumDadDad wrote: Deciduous Forest Cat wrote: AlumDadDad wrote: Unfortunately, our faint hopes lie in Fiami losing to two of the following: two 2-7 teams, and one 3-6 team. And Ohio winning out. But - would that unlikely scenario really result in the MAC East being represented by the best team in the division? If that happens, could you still honestly say Miami was the best team in the division? I guess ... maybe? but also probably not. You have an excellent point. I'm guilty of looking through the lens of our present situation. I think we're going to lose by 10 to the Beefs. We're sliding. Back to Top OhioCatFan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 14,016 Status: Offline     RE: Week 11 MAC schedule    Posted: 11/2/2023 10:15:28 PM  Pataskala wrote: Deciduous Forest Cat wrote: AlumDadDad wrote: Unfortunately, our faint hopes lie in Fiami losing to two of the following: two 2-7 teams, and one 3-6 team. And Ohio winning out. But - would that unlikely scenario really result in the MAC East being represented by the best team in the division? If that happens, could you still honestly say Miami was the best team in the division? I guess ... maybe? but also probably not. The winner of the East is rarely the "best" team in the division. It's usually the one with the fewest injuries or the one that gets its act together at the right time. Last season we probably weren't the best team but we stayed healthy on offense for most of the season and got a healthy defense at the right time. MOFO is fortunate this season to have a backup QB with experience. They're not more talented than we are but they don't seem to be as out of sync as we are. I'm going to channel my inner Monroe here, but I don't see how you can declare a team better than another when they lost to that team. I don't think it matters what the injury situation is, or the weather conditions, or anything else -- but if you beat a team, you are the better team, at least until you meet again and can even the score. I don't think that this is just a matter of semantics. It's kind of an operational definition. To say otherwise, IMHO, denigrates the meaning to the results on the field. As I recall, Monroe and I were a minority of two on this issue, but you know that doesn't mean we were wrong! The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA "It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right." Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org Back to Top colobobcat66 General User Member Since: 9/1/2006 Location: Watching the bobcats run outside my window., CO Post Count: 4,166 Status: Offline     RE: Week 11 MAC schedule    Posted: 11/3/2023 7:58:54 AM  OhioCatFan wrote: Pataskala wrote: Deciduous Forest Cat wrote: AlumDadDad wrote: Unfortunately, our faint hopes lie in Fiami losing to two of the following: two 2-7 teams, and one 3-6 team. And Ohio winning out. But - would that unlikely scenario really result in the MAC East being represented by the best team in the division? If that happens, could you still honestly say Miami was the best team in the division? I guess ... maybe? but also probably not. The winner of the East is rarely the "best" team in the division. It's usually the one with the fewest injuries or the one that gets its act together at the right time. Last season we probably weren't the best team but we stayed healthy on offense for most of the season and got a healthy defense at the right time. MOFO is fortunate this season to have a backup QB with experience. They're not more talented than we are but they don't seem to be as out of sync as we are. I'm going to channel my inner Monroe here, but I don't see how you can declare a team better than another when they lost to that team. I don't think it matters what the injury situation is, or the weather conditions, or anything else -- but if you beat a team, you are the better team, at least until you meet again and can even the score. I don't think that this is just a matter of semantics. It's kind of an operational definition. To say otherwise, IMHO, denigrates the meaning to the results on the field. As I recall, Monroe and I were a minority of two on this issue, but you know that doesn't mean we were wrong! Miami is the best team based on their beating our butts with a second team QB at home! Also the way we are playing (last 3 games) looks pretty bad. Something is wrong and it doesn’t appear to be getting better. Hopefully the team revives and we can win out. The Buffalo game will be a test to see if we can turn it around. Back to Top Chris Galloway General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Post Count: 54 Status: Offline     RE: Week 11 MAC schedule    Posted: 11/3/2023 10:47:27 AM  SBH wrote: AlumDadDad wrote: Deciduous Forest Cat wrote: AlumDadDad wrote: Unfortunately, our faint hopes lie in Fiami losing to two of the following: two 2-7 teams, and one 3-6 team. And Ohio winning out. But - would that unlikely scenario really result in the MAC East being represented by the best team in the division? If that happens, could you still honestly say Miami was the best team in the division? I guess ... maybe? but also probably not. You have an excellent point. I'm guilty of looking through the lens of our present situation. I think we're going to lose by 10 to the Beefs. We're sliding. At least 10. Go Bobcats! Back to Top OhioCatFan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 14,016 Status: Offline     RE: Week 11 MAC schedule    Posted: 11/3/2023 11:13:30 AM  Chris Galloway wrote: SBH wrote: AlumDadDad wrote: Deciduous Forest Cat wrote: AlumDadDad wrote: Unfortunately, our faint hopes lie in Fiami losing to two of the following: two 2-7 teams, and one 3-6 team. And Ohio winning out. But - would that unlikely scenario really result in the MAC East being represented by the best team in the division? If that happens, could you still honestly say Miami was the best team in the division? I guess ... maybe? but also probably not. You have an excellent point. I'm guilty of looking through the lens of our present situation. I think we're going to lose by 10 to the Beefs. We're sliding. At least 10. When the optimism runs this high, it's usually a good sign for the Bobcats. Go OHIO! The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA "It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right." Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org Back to Top Victory General User Member Since: 3/10/2012 Post Count: 1,901 Status: Offline     RE: Week 11 MAC schedule    Posted: 11/3/2023 1:31:25 PM  OhioCatFan wrote: I'm going to channel my inner Monroe here, but I don't see how you can declare a team better than another when they lost to that team. First of all, I'm not going to argue that Ohio is a better team than Miami because based on the sum total of what we have seen from both teams I don't think we are. But it is based on body of work and not just because the beat us. I mean, beating us is part of their body of work but it is just that part of it. Based on your logic there is no way to refute that Ohio is better that Bowling Green, Bowling Green is better than Georgia Tech, Georgia Tech is better than Miami of Florida and and Miami (FL) is better and Miami of Ohio. In fact there are dozens of such arguments that show Ohio is irrefutably better under that logic and also dozens for the opposite. So being in the minority doesn't mean that you are wrong certainly but clearly and obviously living in a world where we think about REALITY in a way a 5 year old should be able to DOES. That statement is CLEARLY LOGICALLY INCORRECT and it don't know how an adult human being could utter it. I know that the way sports is marketed to us is basically to give fans a lobotomy but seriously as statement like that leaves my jaw agape. Luck plays a part in sports much more than most fans want to admit because of the way it is marketed. But this is obviously so. But Miami beat us they won the right to claim that they beat us. We can't claim the opposite. It also gives them the lead in the East, at least for now and probably permanently. But when you win a championship you won just that - the championship. It is a boost to your argument for being the best when you win it but that's all it is. I mean we live in a world were MLB teams play their division rivals repeatedly over the course of a season. A season weep over a division rival almost never happens. One team wins one night and the other the next. We accept this. We expect this. Nobody is surprised by it. Nobody claims that one win suddenly proves that they are better. Back to Top OhioCatFan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 14,016 Status: Offline     RE: Week 11 MAC schedule    Posted: 11/3/2023 2:37:29 PM  Victory wrote: OhioCatFan wrote: I'm going to channel my inner Monroe here, but I don't see how you can declare a team better than another when they lost to that team. First of all, I'm not going to argue that Ohio is a better team than Miami because based on the sum total of what we have seen from both teams I don't think we are. But it is based on body of work and not just because the beat us. I mean, beating us is part of their body of work but it is just that part of it. Based on your logic there is no way to refute that Ohio is better that Bowling Green, Bowling Green is better than Georgia Tech, Georgia Tech is better than Miami of Florida and and Miami (FL) is better and Miami of Ohio. In fact there are dozens of such arguments that show Ohio is irrefutably better under that logic and also dozens for the opposite. So being in the minority doesn't mean that you are wrong certainly but clearly and obviously living in a world where we think about REALITY in a way a 5 year old should be able to DOES. That statement is CLEARLY LOGICALLY INCORRECT and it don't know how an adult human being could utter it. I know that the way sports is marketed to us is basically to give fans a lobotomy but seriously as statement like that leaves my jaw agape. Luck plays a part in sports much more than most fans want to admit because of the way it is marketed. But this is obviously so. But Miami beat us they won the right to claim that they beat us. We can't claim the opposite. It also gives them the lead in the East, at least for now and probably permanently. But when you win a championship you won just that - the championship. It is a boost to your argument for being the best when you win it but that's all it is. I mean we live in a world were MLB teams play their division rivals repeatedly over the course of a season. A season weep over a division rival almost never happens. One team wins one night and the other the next. We accept this. We expect this. Nobody is surprised by it. Nobody claims that one win suddenly proves that they are better. Two points: 1. I never claimed you could use comparative scores to prove anything. I will admit that they can make for interesting conversations. Like when I was a freshman at Wittenberg we put together something like six or seven comparative scores to prove we were better than Notre Dame. Nobody believed it, but it was fun to talk about. 2. I think that baseball is in an entirely difference universe, when it comes to this discussion. But, yes, on a given day Team A is the better team when they beat Team B. That's objective reality. The next day if Team B wins, they are the better team. As I said, it's an operational definition. You win, you are better. The alternative is just a bunch of totally subjective stovepipe league chatter. The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA "It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right." Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org Back to Top Victory General User Member Since: 3/10/2012 Post Count: 1,901 Status: Offline     RE: Week 11 MAC schedule    Posted: 11/3/2023 2:42:54 PM  OhioCatFan wrote: Two points: 1. I never claimed you could use comparative scores to prove anything. I will admit that they can make for interesting conversations. Like when I was a freshman at Wittenberg we put together something like six or seven comparative scores to prove we were better than Notre Dame. Nobody believed it, but it was fun to talk about. 2. I think that baseball is in an entirely difference universe, when it comes to this discussion. But, yes, on a given day Team A is the better team when they beat Team B. That's objective reality. The next day if Team B wins, they are the better team. As I said, it's an operational definition. You win, you are better. The alternative is just a bunch of totally subjective stovepipe league chatter. You win, you won. You win the championship, you're the champion. That's a lot less subjective than saying anything else. And yes, you did say that comparative score prove something. You said winning proves that you are the best team which the comparative scores logically follows. It can't not. Last Edited: 11/3/2023 2:49:25 PM by Victory Back to Top OhioCatFan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 14,016 Status: Offline     RE: Week 11 MAC schedule    Posted: 11/3/2023 2:49:31 PM  Victory wrote: OhioCatFan wrote: Victory wrote: OhioCatFan wrote: I'm going to channel my inner Monroe here, but I don't see how you can declare a team better than another when they lost to that team. First of all, I'm not going to argue that Ohio is a better team than Miami because based on the sum total of what we have seen from both teams I don't think we are. But it is based on body of work and not just because the beat us. I mean, beating us is part of their body of work but it is just that part of it. Based on your logic there is no way to refute that Ohio is better that Bowling Green, Bowling Green is better than Georgia Tech, Georgia Tech is better than Miami of Florida and and Miami (FL) is better and Miami of Ohio. In fact there are dozens of such arguments that show Ohio is irrefutably better under that logic and also dozens for the opposite. So being in the minority doesn't mean that you are wrong certainly but clearly and obviously living in a world where we think about REALITY in a way a 5 year old should be able to DOES. That statement is CLEARLY LOGICALLY INCORRECT and it don't know how an adult human being could utter it. I know that the way sports is marketed to us is basically to give fans a lobotomy but seriously as statement like that leaves my jaw agape. Luck plays a part in sports much more than most fans want to admit because of the way it is marketed. But this is obviously so. But Miami beat us they won the right to claim that they beat us. We can't claim the opposite. It also gives them the lead in the East, at least for now and probably permanently. But when you win a championship you won just that - the championship. It is a boost to your argument for being the best when you win it but that's all it is. I mean we live in a world were MLB teams play their division rivals repeatedly over the course of a season. A season weep over a division rival almost never happens. One team wins one night and the other the next. We accept this. We expect this. Nobody is surprised by it. Nobody claims that one win suddenly proves that they are better. Two points: 1. I never claimed you could use comparative scores to prove anything. I will admit that they can make for interesting conversations. Like when I was a freshman at Wittenberg we put together something like six or seven comparative scores to prove we were better than Notre Dame. Nobody believed it, but it was fun to talk about. 2. I think that baseball is in an entirely difference universe, when it comes to this discussion. But, yes, on a given day Team A is the better team when they beat Team B. That's objective reality. The next day if Team B wins, they are the better team. As I said, it's an operational definition. You win, you are better. The alternative is just a bunch of totally subjective stovepipe league chatter. You win, you won. You win the championship, you're the champion. That's a lot less subjective than saying anything else. Nice to end on a point of agreement! The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA "It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right." Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org Back to Top Deciduous Forest Cat General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Ohio Post Count: 4,319 Status: Offline     RE: Week 11 MAC schedule    Posted: 11/3/2023 2:59:42 PM  OhioCatFan wrote: Victory wrote: OhioCatFan wrote: Victory wrote: OhioCatFan wrote: I'm going to channel my inner Monroe here, but I don't see how you can declare a team better than another when they lost to that team. First of all, I'm not going to argue that Ohio is a better team than Miami because based on the sum total of what we have seen from both teams I don't think we are. But it is based on body of work and not just because the beat us. I mean, beating us is part of their body of work but it is just that part of it. Based on your logic there is no way to refute that Ohio is better that Bowling Green, Bowling Green is better than Georgia Tech, Georgia Tech is better than Miami of Florida and and Miami (FL) is better and Miami of Ohio. In fact there are dozens of such arguments that show Ohio is irrefutably better under that logic and also dozens for the opposite. So being in the minority doesn't mean that you are wrong certainly but clearly and obviously living in a world where we think about REALITY in a way a 5 year old should be able to DOES. That statement is CLEARLY LOGICALLY INCORRECT and it don't know how an adult human being could utter it. I know that the way sports is marketed to us is basically to give fans a lobotomy but seriously as statement like that leaves my jaw agape. Luck plays a part in sports much more than most fans want to admit because of the way it is marketed. But this is obviously so. But Miami beat us they won the right to claim that they beat us. We can't claim the opposite. It also gives them the lead in the East, at least for now and probably permanently. But when you win a championship you won just that - the championship. It is a boost to your argument for being the best when you win it but that's all it is. I mean we live in a world were MLB teams play their division rivals repeatedly over the course of a season. A season weep over a division rival almost never happens. One team wins one night and the other the next. We accept this. We expect this. Nobody is surprised by it. Nobody claims that one win suddenly proves that they are better. Two points: 1. I never claimed you could use comparative scores to prove anything. I will admit that they can make for interesting conversations. Like when I was a freshman at Wittenberg we put together something like six or seven comparative scores to prove we were better than Notre Dame. Nobody believed it, but it was fun to talk about. 2. I think that baseball is in an entirely difference universe, when it comes to this discussion. But, yes, on a given day Team A is the better team when they beat Team B. That's objective reality. The next day if Team B wins, they are the better team. As I said, it's an operational definition. You win, you are better. The alternative is just a bunch of totally subjective stovepipe league chatter. You win, you won. You win the championship, you're the champion. That's a lot less subjective than saying anything else. Nice to end on a point of agreement! So it's settled, then. We all agree that miami still sucks. Back to Top OhioCatFan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 14,016 Status: Offline     RE: Week 11 MAC schedule    Posted: 11/3/2023 10:48:51 PM  Deciduous Forest Cat wrote: OhioCatFan wrote: Victory wrote: OhioCatFan wrote: Victory wrote: OhioCatFan wrote: I'm going to channel my inner Monroe here, but I don't see how you can declare a team better than another when they lost to that team. First of all, I'm not going to argue that Ohio is a better team than Miami because based on the sum total of what we have seen from both teams I don't think we are. But it is based on body of work and not just because the beat us. I mean, beating us is part of their body of work but it is just that part of it. Based on your logic there is no way to refute that Ohio is better that Bowling Green, Bowling Green is better than Georgia Tech, Georgia Tech is better than Miami of Florida and and Miami (FL) is better and Miami of Ohio. In fact there are dozens of such arguments that show Ohio is irrefutably better under that logic and also dozens for the opposite. So being in the minority doesn't mean that you are wrong certainly but clearly and obviously living in a world where we think about REALITY in a way a 5 year old should be able to DOES. That statement is CLEARLY LOGICALLY INCORRECT and it don't know how an adult human being could utter it. I know that the way sports is marketed to us is basically to give fans a lobotomy but seriously as statement like that leaves my jaw agape. Luck plays a part in sports much more than most fans want to admit because of the way it is marketed. But this is obviously so. But Miami beat us they won the right to claim that they beat us. We can't claim the opposite. It also gives them the lead in the East, at least for now and probably permanently. But when you win a championship you won just that - the championship. It is a boost to your argument for being the best when you win it but that's all it is. I mean we live in a world were MLB teams play their division rivals repeatedly over the course of a season. A season weep over a division rival almost never happens. One team wins one night and the other the next. We accept this. We expect this. Nobody is surprised by it. Nobody claims that one win suddenly proves that they are better. Two points: 1. I never claimed you could use comparative scores to prove anything. I will admit that they can make for interesting conversations. Like when I was a freshman at Wittenberg we put together something like six or seven comparative scores to prove we were better than Notre Dame. Nobody believed it, but it was fun to talk about. 2. I think that baseball is in an entirely difference universe, when it comes to this discussion. But, yes, on a given day Team A is the better team when they beat Team B. That's objective reality. The next day if Team B wins, they are the better team. As I said, it's an operational definition. You win, you are better. The alternative is just a bunch of totally subjective stovepipe league chatter. You win, you won. You win the championship, you're the champion. That's a lot less subjective than saying anything else. Nice to end on a point of agreement! So it's settled, then. We all agree that miami still sucks. This is a maxim so true that only a complete idiot would disagree. The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA "It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right." Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org Back to Top bobcatsquared General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Post Count: 5,057 Status: Offline     RE: Week 11 MAC schedule    Posted: 11/3/2023 11:17:32 PM  If Miami sucks, what does that say about the team they beat handedly in Athens last weekend? Guess that makes me not just an idiot, but a complete idiot. Last Edited: 11/3/2023 11:18:23 PM by bobcatsquared Back to Top Deciduous Forest Cat General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Ohio Post Count: 4,319 Status: Offline     RE: Week 11 MAC schedule    Posted: 11/4/2023 10:51:31 AM  bobcatsquared wrote: If Miami sucks, what does that say about the team they beat handedly in Athens last weekend? Guess that makes me not just an idiot, but a complete idiot. They also beat them handily. But not relevant to how much they suck. Back to Top OhioCatFan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 14,016 Status: Offline     RE: Week 11 MAC schedule    Posted: 11/4/2023 2:38:55 PM  Deciduous Forest Cat wrote: bobcatsquared wrote: If Miami sucks, what does that say about the team they beat handedly in Athens last weekend? Guess that makes me not just an idiot, but a complete idiot. They also beat them handily. But not relevant to how much they suck. Yep, two separate issues. The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA "It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right." Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org Back to Top Showing Replies:   1 - 21  of 21 Posts Jump to Page:   1 View Other 'Ohio Football' Topics                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               WHO'S ONLINE There are 227 Active Visitors on BobcatAttack.com 227 Guests 0 Registered Users There are no other users looking at this page.

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