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Topic:  RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Iowa St.

Topic:  RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Iowa St.
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Deciduous Forest Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Iowa St.
   Posted: 9/17/2023 12:13:19 PM 
I just finally got to see the kick and while it was very close, there is no way that anyone can definitively say it was good. It might have gone directly over the post, but that is to be ruled no good so would have been correct. No one in that stadium had the view of the official under that post.
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Victory
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Iowa St.
   Posted: 9/17/2023 2:28:16 PM 
Zaleski wrote:
I KNOW that kick was no good. I was there.


Where were you sitting where you can claim this? If you aren't under the post you can't tell. If you are directly behind the kicker looking perpendicular to the field lines and the ball is between the posts the whole time from your perspective while in flight until it hits the net then yes that's definitive. We have that approximate perspective on ESPN and it is nowhere close to definitive. I don't think that any other view from any stadium seat that's better than that. I was in section 106 and that was obviously an impossible view to know anything. If you were right behind the post on victory hill that was probably the best spot that wasn't on the field but it still isn't hardly any better than the live ESPN shot. You just have the same parallax only from the other side.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Iowa St.
   Posted: 9/17/2023 4:37:42 PM 

Here is the screenshot I mentioned above from the ESPN video. The ball is moving from right to left in this video, and it is higher than the goalpost. This is a split second after the still that you see being shared on the internet. The earlier shot shows the ball to the right of the upright, which makes people think it was clearly good.

In this specific frame, the ball is clearly behind the goalpost, because the goalpost covers part of the ball. That means that, at this specific point in time, the ball was either still in front of the plane of the goalpost, or to the left of it, or both. That, in turn, means that the picture from earlier in the video showing the ball to the right of the goalpost was irrelevent, as the ball had to be well in front of the plane of the goalpost.

If you continue the video from here, the ball continue to the left (in 2 dimensions). The best possible interpretation from an Iowa State perspective is that the ball was barely in front of the goalpost in the frame I grabbed, and then it passed directly above the goalpost. My take is that, in this picture, the ball was in front of the goal post and to the left of it, and that as it continued to the left on the screen, it passed the goalpost on the left. You can't use a single 2D picture to establish exactly what happened in 3D, but this does show that, at best, the ball went above the post. I'm not sure if "above the post" should be ruled "Good" or "Not Good", however.

Last Edited: 9/17/2023 4:53:54 PM by L.C.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Iowa St.
   Posted: 9/17/2023 4:56:42 PM 
Did anyone notice Wilgusz coming off the field after being attended to after a big hit in the 2nd half? He was raising his arms, trying to get the crowd loud and behind the Bobcats.

Did anyone notice later in the same half, after Ohio ran the ball up the middle on 2 straight plays followed by a Rourke run resulting in an Ohio punt? Wilgusz looked disgusted in the conservative play calling when coming off the field this time.

Did anyone notice one play in the first half where Allison and Bangura lined up in the backfield, one on each side of Rourke? Don't believe I've seen that all season prior to that play or after.

I'm sure all Bobcat fans noticed OUr defense shut down a P5 offense for 55 minutes. And OUr O line prevented a P5 pass rush from getting one sack of Rourke.

Last Edited: 9/17/2023 4:57:36 PM by bobcatsquared
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PhiTau74
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Iowa St.
   Posted: 9/17/2023 5:05:32 PM 
. wrote:
I still think Rich Karlis’ kick to win the 1986 AFC championship game against the Browns was wide left, so what do I know?


I was at that game (The Drive), from where we sat on the visitor side we all said it missed. Exact same situation as the Ohio game.
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Zaleski
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Iowa St.
   Posted: 9/17/2023 5:39:14 PM 
Victory wrote:
Zaleski wrote:
I KNOW that kick was no good. I was there.


Where were you sitting where you can claim this? If you aren't under the post you can't tell. If you are directly behind the kicker looking perpendicular to the field lines and the ball is between the posts the whole time from your perspective while in flight until it hits the net then yes that's definitive. We have that approximate perspective on ESPN and it is nowhere close to definitive. I don't think that any other view from any stadium seat that's better than that. I was in section 106 and that was obviously an impossible view to know anything. If you were right behind the post on victory hill that was probably the best spot that wasn't on the field but it still isn't hardly any better than the live ESPN shot. You just have the same parallax only from the other side.


Somethings one just knows. Period.
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Victory
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Iowa St.
   Posted: 9/17/2023 6:01:51 PM 
Zaleski wrote:
Victory wrote:
Zaleski wrote:
I KNOW that kick was no good. I was there.


Where were you sitting where you can claim this? If you aren't under the post you can't tell. If you are directly behind the kicker looking perpendicular to the field lines and the ball is between the posts the whole time from your perspective while in flight until it hits the net then yes that's definitive. We have that approximate perspective on ESPN and it is nowhere close to definitive. I don't think that any other view from any stadium seat that's better than that. I was in section 106 and that was obviously an impossible view to know anything. If you were right behind the post on victory hill that was probably the best spot that wasn't on the field but it still isn't hardly any better than the live ESPN shot. You just have the same parallax only from the other side.


Somethings one just knows. Period.


EDIT: I'm removing my post. It sounded uncivil after I reread it and it isn't worth going down that road over a field goal on a football message board.

Last Edited: 9/17/2023 6:34:24 PM by Victory
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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Iowa St.
   Posted: 9/18/2023 10:02:58 AM 
How the students from one Ohio MAC school reacted after their football team beat a Big 12 opponent.

https://twitter.com/BrickStOxford/status/1703426168752386...

Last Edited: 9/18/2023 10:21:02 AM by bobcatsquared
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shabamon
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Iowa St.
   Posted: 9/18/2023 10:44:43 AM 
bobcatsquared wrote:
How the students from one Ohio MAC school reacted after their football team beat a Big 12 opponent.

https://twitter.com/BrickStOxford/status/1703426168752386...


I love that an uptown Oxford establishment still has specify Miami OF OHIO.
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AlumDadDad
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Iowa St.
   Posted: 9/18/2023 1:35:30 PM 
bobcatsquared wrote:
How the students from one Ohio MAC school reacted after their football team beat a Big 12 opponent.

https://twitter.com/BrickStOxford/status/1703426168752386...


I think that reaction had less to do with a Big 12 opponent, and more to do with the fact that they had lost 16 games in a row to a big rival. A good number of those 16 losses were good old-fashioned butt kickings.

I hope that the Fiami students begin to care about football again after this win. It will make it all the more fun when they have to leave Athens with a loss.
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Iowa St.
   Posted: 9/18/2023 3:53:06 PM 
AlumDadDad wrote:
A good number of those 16 losses [of Miami to UC] were good old-fashioned butt kickings.


True, but one a few years ago was only due to extremely poor clock management by by Martin in the last two minutes that allowed UC back in the game and helped Miami seize defeat from the jaws of victory

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Iowa St.
   Posted: 9/18/2023 3:54:59 PM 
AlumDadDad wrote:
I think that reaction had less to do with a Big 12 opponent, and more to do with the fact that they had lost 16 games in a row to a big rival.


No doubt about that. But the connection to the title of this thread is the fact that two Ohio MAC schools beat the big boys from the P5 Big 12.
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Victory
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Iowa St.
   Posted: 9/18/2023 7:29:22 PM 
Bryce Houston won his second MAC East Defensive Player of the Week in three weeks though this time he shared it with Miami's Matt Salopek. He honestly had to be in the running last week as well and if there were an award for week 0 he would have won that too as he had the best game on our defense. Kurtis is going to have a tough time recovering from injury to repeat as Player of the Year bur Houston is off to a fantastic start in his chances for Defensive Player of the Year.
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KyleWvr13
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Iowa St.
   Posted: 9/18/2023 7:48:37 PM 
L.C. wrote:

Here is the screenshot I mentioned above from the ESPN video. The ball is moving from right to left in this video, and it is higher than the goalpost. This is a split second after the still that you see being shared on the internet. The earlier shot shows the ball to the right of the upright, which makes people think it was clearly good.
In this specific frame, the ball is clearly behind the goalpost, because the goalpost covers part of the ball. That means that, at this specific point in time, the ball was either still in front of the plane of the goalpost, or to the left of it, or both. That, in turn, means that the picture from earlier in the video showing the ball to the right of the goalpost was irrelevent, as the ball had to be well in front of the plane of the goalpost.
If you continue the video from here, the ball continue to the left (in 2 dimensions). The best possible interpretation from an Iowa State perspective is that the ball was barely in front of the goalpost in the frame I grabbed, and then it passed directly above the goalpost. My take is that, in this picture, the ball was in front of the goal post and to the left of it, and that as it continued to the left on the screen, it passed the goalpost on the left. You can't use a single 2D picture to establish exactly what happened in 3D, but this does show that, at best, the ball went above the post. I'm not sure if "above the post" should be ruled "Good" or "Not Good", however.


And this is why they don't spend time reviewing FG calls that go above the uprights. The refs spotting the uprights on the ground has the best view in the whole stadium. As you said with camera's inability to properly capture depth, it can cause visual trickery when you try to track something in 3 dimensions when you only have 2 dimensions to work with.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Iowa St.
   Posted: 9/18/2023 8:20:33 PM 
KyleWvr13 wrote:
And this is why they don't spend time reviewing FG calls that go above the uprights. The refs spotting the uprights on the ground has the best view in the whole stadium. As you said with camera's inability to properly capture depth, it can cause visual trickery when you try to track something in 3 dimensions when you only have 2 dimensions to work with.

Exactly, though you can gain insight from those rare instances when the ball and the post occupy the same 2-dimensional location, as above. Since the ball was behind the post, we know that any earlier picture was "visual trickery", and nothing more. Subsequently, in the video, the ball then was above the post, so we can gain no further insight about the path of the ball after that point.

The ref had the only position to make the right call, and he made his call. There is nothing in the video that indicates that he was not correct.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Iowa St.
   Posted: 9/19/2023 11:33:34 AM 
L.C. wrote:
The ref had the only position to make the right call, and he made his call. There is nothing in the video that indicates that he was not correct.


This does not seem to be the opinion held by the posters on CycloneFanatic. I think they need someone to educate them on the fine points of FG video analysis.

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Iowa St.
   Posted: 9/19/2023 12:29:27 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
L.C. wrote:
The ref had the only position to make the right call, and he made his call. There is nothing in the video that indicates that he was not correct.


This does not seem to be the opinion held by the posters on CycloneFanatic. I think they need someone to educate them on the fine points of FG video analysis.


Only one opinion matters on that play. And that was a Big12 crew.

Last Edited: 9/19/2023 12:29:46 PM by BillyTheCat
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Iowa St.
   Posted: 9/19/2023 12:48:28 PM 

BillyTheCat wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
L.C. wrote:
The ref had the only position to make the right call, and he made his call. There is nothing in the video that indicates that he was not correct.


This does not seem to be the opinion held by the posters on CycloneFanatic. I think they need someone to educate them on the fine points of FG video analysis.


Only one opinion matters on that play. And that was a Big12 crew. 

Yep, and these ISU fans want to believe that they were screwed by a B12 crew.  Maybe they think they were all Kansas grads! wink

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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Deciduous Forest Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Iowa St.
   Posted: 9/19/2023 1:02:56 PM 
No kidding. Without any evidence to indicate it was definitely good or even more good than bad, they've just taken the idea that it was definitely good and totally run with it. no doubt. their media is running with it too, and espn has been a honk for making that kick good. The only person in the stadium fit to make that call was the Big 12 official underneath the post.

FG Good? No
Sympathy from a MAC school? None.
Big 12/P5 tears? Delicious.

That said, PI should have been called on the clinching interception. Receiver was hit way early.

Still, zero sympathy.
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CatsUp
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Iowa St.
   Posted: 9/19/2023 1:58:52 PM 
I mean….There just has to be an excuse for the Bobcats winning doesn’t there. :)
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Iowa St.
   Posted: 9/19/2023 2:02:03 PM 
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:
No kidding. Without any evidence to indicate it was definitely good or even more good than bad, they've just taken the idea that it was definitely good and totally run with it. no doubt. their media is running with it too, and espn has been a honk for making that kick good. The only person in the stadium fit to make that call was the Big 12 official underneath the post.

FG Good? No
Sympathy from a MAC school? None.
Big 12/P5 tears? Delicious.

That said, PI should have been called on the clinching interception. Receiver was hit way early.

Still, zero sympathy.




Those darn crooked B12 refs. I remember when they gave CMU an extra un-timed down against OSU-South that lead to a CMU win. Seriously, early hits not being called is one of my pet peeves. I see it in nearly every game that I watch -- college or pro. I will say that this early hit bothers me not much at all! I'll just take a page out of the announcer's handbook, "Good no call. They're just letting 'em play."

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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Ted Thompson
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Iowa St.
   Posted: 9/20/2023 7:20:25 PM 

Follow Ohio Football recruiting on the BobcatAttack.com football recruiting database.

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Ted Thompson
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Iowa St.
   Posted: 9/20/2023 7:21:19 PM 

 

Follow Ohio Football recruiting on the BobcatAttack.com football recruiting database.

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Iowa St.
   Posted: 9/22/2023 2:06:38 PM 
https://x.com/secofficiating/status/1705273604437340661?s...
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official Game 4 Thread: Iowa St.
   Posted: 9/22/2023 4:24:31 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
https://x.com/secofficiating/status/1705273604437340661?s...

Thanks for posting that. We had it right on BA, maybe not so much on the Iowa State boards.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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