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Topic:  Better Pay For A Big Man Next Season

Topic:  Better Pay For A Big Man Next Season
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FearLeon
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Member Since: 3/12/2005
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  Message Not Read  Better Pay For A Big Man Next Season
   Posted: 12/22/2023 10:06:31 PM 
This offense is absolutely disgusting to watch. Nothing but hero ball and 23 footers. This staff really dropped the ball in the portal with failing to get a big man. Going to be hard to figure it out the rest of this season. This is all on Boals.

Last Edited: 12/22/2023 10:24:51 PM by FearLeon

#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Better Pay For A Big Man Next Season
   Posted: 12/22/2023 10:28:37 PM 
In professional sports, a big part of how you assess a team is through what their GM spends, and whether the money's used effectively.

The NIL is still completely opaque, so it's a black box and impossible to know. But if we gave NIL money to Cornish that could have gone to improving the offer to a big, that's awful. A big swing and miss.
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GraffZ06
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Location: Dayton, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Better Pay For A Big Man Next Season
   Posted: 12/23/2023 5:12:51 AM 
Yeah the fact that we don't have public contracts like the pros makes this a lot of conjecture, but my gut says Ayden Evans didn't come cheap, and neither did AJ Brown (or keeping Elmore).

We likely threw some $$ to Cornish and Reef. Whether that was enough to sway another big that could have helped or not, I dunno.

If you only have $100k to spend do you try and (likely fail) at a big or use that to bolster other spots? Seems Boals rolled the dice on some cheaper bigs this year and failed while putting bigger assets into a 4-year big coming next year.

I see the logic in that thinking. Just makes it rough this year.
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FJC31
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  Message Not Read  RE: Better Pay For A Big Man Next Season
   Posted: 12/23/2023 8:21:38 AM 
I think Graffz is correct in how it likely played out. Evans is our big man addition next year to pair with AJC and Hadaway. Speaking of the latter two, both have proven to be formidable this season in the paint — if we run plays for them.

The problem this year isn’t the lack of size or another DW3, it’s playing too much iso ball and trying to be the 3PT that we aren’t. Play downhill ball, fast tempo, and to our strengths. That’s on Boals to implement.

I still don’t consider Ike a swing and miss. He knocked down a needed 3 last night and grabbed 4 rebounds. He cuts back door quite often and doesn’t get the ball.

Last Edited: 12/23/2023 8:23:37 AM by FJC31
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FearLeon
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  Message Not Read  RE: Better Pay For A Big Man Next Season
   Posted: 12/23/2023 8:21:43 AM 
GraffZ06 wrote:
Yeah the fact that we don't have public contracts like the pros makes this a lot of conjecture, but my gut says Ayden Evans didn't come cheap, and neither did AJ Brown (or keeping Elmore).

We likely threw some $$ to Cornish and Reef. Whether that was enough to sway another big that could have helped or not, I dunno.

If you only have $100k to spend do you try and (likely fail) at a big or use that to bolster other spots? Seems Boals rolled the dice on some cheaper bigs this year and failed while putting bigger assets into a 4-year big coming next year.

I see the logic in that thinking. Just makes it rough this year.


Agree about Evans probably not coming to cheap. I doubt anyone here expects Evans to average 10 and 8 next season as a true freshman. So nothing really changes in terms of needed another big man and one that can start. The Whiz is not the answer obviously and as far as I'm concerned, IJ is no longer part of this team.

Last Edited: 12/23/2023 8:22:12 AM by FearLeon

#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Better Pay For A Big Man Next Season
   Posted: 12/23/2023 8:27:04 AM 
FJC31 wrote:
I think Graffz is correct in how it likely played out. Evans is our big man addition next year to pair with AJC and Hadaway. Speaking of the latter two, both have proven to be formidable this season in the paint — if we run plays for them.

The problem this year isn’t the lack of size or another DW3, it’s playing too much iso ball and trying to be the 3PT that we aren’t. Play downhill ball, fast tempo, and to our strengths. That’s on Boals to implement.

I still don’t consider Ike a swing and miss. He knocked down a needed 3 last night and grabbed 4 rebounds. He cuts back door quite often and doesn’t get the ball.


Ike is our 10th man. He's barely in the rotation and had shot poorly. The portal should be a way to get guys who will contribute instantly. Reinforcements. Ike isnt that.
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FJC31
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  Message Not Read  RE: Better Pay For A Big Man Next Season
   Posted: 12/23/2023 8:58:41 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
FJC31 wrote:
I think Graffz is correct in how it likely played out. Evans is our big man addition next year to pair with AJC and Hadaway. Speaking of the latter two, both have proven to be formidable this season in the paint — if we run plays for them.

The problem this year isn’t the lack of size or another DW3, it’s playing too much iso ball and trying to be the 3PT that we aren’t. Play downhill ball, fast tempo, and to our strengths. That’s on Boals to implement.

I still don’t consider Ike a swing and miss. He knocked down a needed 3 last night and grabbed 4 rebounds. He cuts back door quite often and doesn’t get the ball.


Ike is our 10th man. He's barely in the rotation and had shot poorly. The portal should be a way to get guys who will contribute instantly. Reinforcements. Ike isnt that.


Smaller sample size based on minutes; but, Ike has the same shooting % as Jaylin and AJB. He’s also shot a higher % from 3 than Jaylin, Shereef, EJ4, and AJB. He’s made the same number of 3’s as EJ4 while taking 7 less attempts. Meanwhile, Shereef and and AJB have taken 20 more 3PT attempts than Ike and have only made 4 and 5 more.

He’s not a swing and miss. He’s been statistically more effective in all of the double-digit games he’s played more than 14 minutes. When he takes at least 5 shot attempts, he’s shooting 43%.

We were all ready to give up on Hadaway and Sheldon coming into this year. Ike needs more PT, especially on a team that lacks size.

Last Edited: 12/23/2023 9:09:16 AM by FJC31
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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: Better Pay For A Big Man Next Season
   Posted: 12/23/2023 9:11:45 AM 
The addition of Evans next year is not nearly enough to get this program back to where we all want it to be. The roster is lacking in so many areas - size, shooters, athletes, strength, etc. . .
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Better Pay For A Big Man Next Season
   Posted: 12/23/2023 9:15:23 AM 
FJC31 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
FJC31 wrote:
I think Graffz is correct in how it likely played out. Evans is our big man addition next year to pair with AJC and Hadaway. Speaking of the latter two, both have proven to be formidable this season in the paint — if we run plays for them.

The problem this year isn’t the lack of size or another DW3, it’s playing too much iso ball and trying to be the 3PT that we aren’t. Play downhill ball, fast tempo, and to our strengths. That’s on Boals to implement.

I still don’t consider Ike a swing and miss. He knocked down a needed 3 last night and grabbed 4 rebounds. He cuts back door quite often and doesn’t get the ball.


Ike is our 10th man. He's barely in the rotation and had shot poorly. The portal should be a way to get guys who will contribute instantly. Reinforcements. Ike isnt that.


Smaller sample size based on minutes; but, Ike has the same shooting % as Jaylin and AJB. He’s also shot a higher % from 3 than Jaylin, Shereef, EJ4, and AJB. He’s made the same number of 3’s as EJ4 while taking 7 less attempts. Meanwhile, Shereef and and AJB have taken 20 more 3PT attempts than Ike and have only made 4 and 5 more.

He’s not a swing and miss. He’s been statistically more effective in all of the double-digit games he’s played excluding Defiance (since that game was a joke).


Sorry man, but any close look at Cornish's numbers shows he hasn't been good.

Comparing him to other guys who haven't been good doesn't make him good. AJB is injured, so it's not a knock against him, but he's been bad this year. Straight up bad. It's not a good thing that Cornish has the same shooting percentage as him. And Jaylin Hunter's shooting us out of games. Again, the ball doesn't move in our offense, and there's nobody else to take those shots. So not exactly a knock on Hunter. But Hunter hasn't been good, either.

For reference on Cornish:

1. He's 10th on the team in 2p %.
2. 7th on a bad shooting team in FG% at 39%
3. Middle of the team from 3 at 35% but only shooting one per game.
4. Overall, he's 8th on the team in effective field goal rate. And this team is a VERY BAD shooting team. He's 9th in Effective Field Goal rate. The only rotation guys he's ahead of are the two obviously injured Browns.
5. His PER is 11th on the team at 11.7. PER has plenty of issues, but that's not good.
6. He's basically a black hole. When he gets the ball, he shoots it. And he's not a good shooter. Per 40 minutes he's only ahead of AJ Brown and Clayton in assists.
7. He is 10th in Offensive Rating. 11th in Win Shares. 10th in Offensive Win Shares. 10th in Assist Rate, 10th in Free Throw Rate.

Just don't see how anybody can call any of that good. Swing and a miss. The portal isn't for 10th men, and we have two portal guys (Cornish and Wiz) who can't impact games. That's on Boals and it can't continue if we want to be competitive.

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FJC31
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  Message Not Read  RE: Better Pay For A Big Man Next Season
   Posted: 12/23/2023 9:32:24 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
FJC31 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
FJC31 wrote:
I think Graffz is correct in how it likely played out. Evans is our big man addition next year to pair with AJC and Hadaway. Speaking of the latter two, both have proven to be formidable this season in the paint — if we run plays for them.

The problem this year isn’t the lack of size or another DW3, it’s playing too much iso ball and trying to be the 3PT that we aren’t. Play downhill ball, fast tempo, and to our strengths. That’s on Boals to implement.

I still don’t consider Ike a swing and miss. He knocked down a needed 3 last night and grabbed 4 rebounds. He cuts back door quite often and doesn’t get the ball.


Ike is our 10th man. He's barely in the rotation and had shot poorly. The portal should be a way to get guys who will contribute instantly. Reinforcements. Ike isnt that.


Smaller sample size based on minutes; but, Ike has the same shooting % as Jaylin and AJB. He’s also shot a higher % from 3 than Jaylin, Shereef, EJ4, and AJB. He’s made the same number of 3’s as EJ4 while taking 7 less attempts. Meanwhile, Shereef and and AJB have taken 20 more 3PT attempts than Ike and have only made 4 and 5 more.

He’s not a swing and miss. He’s been statistically more effective in all of the double-digit games he’s played excluding Defiance (since that game was a joke).


Sorry man, but any close look at Cornish's numbers shows he hasn't been good.

Comparing him to other guys who haven't been good doesn't make him good. AJB is injured, so it's not a knock against him, but he's been bad this year. Straight up bad. It's not a good thing that Cornish has the same shooting percentage as him. And Jaylin Hunter's shooting us out of games. Again, the ball doesn't move in our offense, and there's nobody else to take those shots. So not exactly a knock on Hunter. But Hunter hasn't been good, either.

For reference on Cornish:

1. He's 10th on the team in 2p %.
2. 7th on a bad shooting team in FG% at 39%
3. Middle of the team from 3 at 35% but only shooting one per game.
4. Overall, he's 8th on the team in effective field goal rate. And this team is a VERY BAD shooting team. He's 9th in Effective Field Goal rate. The only rotation guys he's ahead of are the two obviously injured Browns.
5. His PER is 11th on the team at 11.7. PER has plenty of issues, but that's not good.
6. He's basically a black hole. When he gets the ball, he shoots it. And he's not a good shooter. Per 40 minutes he's only ahead of AJ Brown and Clayton in assists.
7. He is 10th in Offensive Rating. 11th in Win Shares. 10th in Offensive Win Shares. 10th in Assist Rate, 10th in Free Throw Rate.

Just don't see how anybody can call any of that good. Swing and a miss. The portal isn't for 10th men, and we have two portal guys (Cornish and Wiz) who can't impact games. That's on Boals and it can't continue if we want to be competitive.



I’ll just copy and paste what I edited and added above

He’s been statistically more effective in all of the double-digit games he’s played more than 14 minutes. When he takes at least 5 shot attempts, he’s shooting 43%.

I’m not calling it good, but I’m not calling it a swing and miss. Expecting to hit on all portal additions is also unrealistic. No team does that.


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Alan Swank
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Location: Athens, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Better Pay For A Big Man Next Season
   Posted: 12/23/2023 11:02:36 AM 
Lot of speculation on nil deals in this thread. I'm guessing the "guesses" are way over-inflated so I did a quick search and found this article. I wonder if anyone from the local media has pursued this.

https://www.templelawreview.org/article/blowing-the-whist... .
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Better Pay For A Big Man Next Season
   Posted: 12/23/2023 2:35:46 PM 
FJC31 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
FJC31 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
FJC31 wrote:
I think Graffz is correct in how it likely played out. Evans is our big man addition next year to pair with AJC and Hadaway. Speaking of the latter two, both have proven to be formidable this season in the paint — if we run plays for them.

The problem this year isn’t the lack of size or another DW3, it’s playing too much iso ball and trying to be the 3PT that we aren’t. Play downhill ball, fast tempo, and to our strengths. That’s on Boals to implement.

I still don’t consider Ike a swing and miss. He knocked down a needed 3 last night and grabbed 4 rebounds. He cuts back door quite often and doesn’t get the ball.


Ike is our 10th man. He's barely in the rotation and had shot poorly. The portal should be a way to get guys who will contribute instantly. Reinforcements. Ike isnt that.


Smaller sample size based on minutes; but, Ike has the same shooting % as Jaylin and AJB. He’s also shot a higher % from 3 than Jaylin, Shereef, EJ4, and AJB. He’s made the same number of 3’s as EJ4 while taking 7 less attempts. Meanwhile, Shereef and and AJB have taken 20 more 3PT attempts than Ike and have only made 4 and 5 more.

He’s not a swing and miss. He’s been statistically more effective in all of the double-digit games he’s played excluding Defiance (since that game was a joke).


Sorry man, but any close look at Cornish's numbers shows he hasn't been good.

Comparing him to other guys who haven't been good doesn't make him good. AJB is injured, so it's not a knock against him, but he's been bad this year. Straight up bad. It's not a good thing that Cornish has the same shooting percentage as him. And Jaylin Hunter's shooting us out of games. Again, the ball doesn't move in our offense, and there's nobody else to take those shots. So not exactly a knock on Hunter. But Hunter hasn't been good, either.

For reference on Cornish:

1. He's 10th on the team in 2p %.
2. 7th on a bad shooting team in FG% at 39%
3. Middle of the team from 3 at 35% but only shooting one per game.
4. Overall, he's 8th on the team in effective field goal rate. And this team is a VERY BAD shooting team. He's 9th in Effective Field Goal rate. The only rotation guys he's ahead of are the two obviously injured Browns.
5. His PER is 11th on the team at 11.7. PER has plenty of issues, but that's not good.
6. He's basically a black hole. When he gets the ball, he shoots it. And he's not a good shooter. Per 40 minutes he's only ahead of AJ Brown and Clayton in assists.
7. He is 10th in Offensive Rating. 11th in Win Shares. 10th in Offensive Win Shares. 10th in Assist Rate, 10th in Free Throw Rate.

Just don't see how anybody can call any of that good. Swing and a miss. The portal isn't for 10th men, and we have two portal guys (Cornish and Wiz) who can't impact games. That's on Boals and it can't continue if we want to be competitive.



I’ll just copy and paste what I edited and added above

He’s been statistically more effective in all of the double-digit games he’s played more than 14 minutes. When he takes at least 5 shot attempts, he’s shooting 43%.

I’m not calling it good, but I’m not calling it a swing and miss. Expecting to hit on all portal additions is also unrealistic. No team does that.



He's played more than 14 minutes twice. I don't see how it's useful to look at a sample size of two games as if it's more useful than the sample size of 11 games.

He looks an awful lot like a swing and a miss to me. The portal really shouldn't be for 10th men. In the portal, you have more info on players than you do recruiting out of high school. You don't have to project high school productivity to a faster, bigger, more physical game. You can see what guys did at the college level. Boals seems far too inclined to offer guys who can't get on the floor at P5 schools and the hit rate's been low.

We just don't have enough talent on this team. That's a result of recruiting in the portal and at the high school level. It hasn't been good enough.
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BobcatSports
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  Message Not Read  RE: Better Pay For A Big Man Next Season
   Posted: 12/23/2023 3:11:37 PM 
Better Call Saul!!
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FJC31
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Member Since: 3/31/2022
Post Count: 1,261

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  Message Not Read  RE: Better Pay For A Big Man Next Season
   Posted: 12/23/2023 4:04:34 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
FJC31 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
FJC31 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
FJC31 wrote:
I think Graffz is correct in how it likely played out. Evans is our big man addition next year to pair with AJC and Hadaway. Speaking of the latter two, both have proven to be formidable this season in the paint — if we run plays for them.

The problem this year isn’t the lack of size or another DW3, it’s playing too much iso ball and trying to be the 3PT that we aren’t. Play downhill ball, fast tempo, and to our strengths. That’s on Boals to implement.

I still don’t consider Ike a swing and miss. He knocked down a needed 3 last night and grabbed 4 rebounds. He cuts back door quite often and doesn’t get the ball.


Ike is our 10th man. He's barely in the rotation and had shot poorly. The portal should be a way to get guys who will contribute instantly. Reinforcements. Ike isnt that.


Smaller sample size based on minutes; but, Ike has the same shooting % as Jaylin and AJB. He’s also shot a higher % from 3 than Jaylin, Shereef, EJ4, and AJB. He’s made the same number of 3’s as EJ4 while taking 7 less attempts. Meanwhile, Shereef and and AJB have taken 20 more 3PT attempts than Ike and have only made 4 and 5 more.

He’s not a swing and miss. He’s been statistically more effective in all of the double-digit games he’s played excluding Defiance (since that game was a joke).


Sorry man, but any close look at Cornish's numbers shows he hasn't been good.

Comparing him to other guys who haven't been good doesn't make him good. AJB is injured, so it's not a knock against him, but he's been bad this year. Straight up bad. It's not a good thing that Cornish has the same shooting percentage as him. And Jaylin Hunter's shooting us out of games. Again, the ball doesn't move in our offense, and there's nobody else to take those shots. So not exactly a knock on Hunter. But Hunter hasn't been good, either.

For reference on Cornish:

1. He's 10th on the team in 2p %.
2. 7th on a bad shooting team in FG% at 39%
3. Middle of the team from 3 at 35% but only shooting one per game.
4. Overall, he's 8th on the team in effective field goal rate. And this team is a VERY BAD shooting team. He's 9th in Effective Field Goal rate. The only rotation guys he's ahead of are the two obviously injured Browns.
5. His PER is 11th on the team at 11.7. PER has plenty of issues, but that's not good.
6. He's basically a black hole. When he gets the ball, he shoots it. And he's not a good shooter. Per 40 minutes he's only ahead of AJ Brown and Clayton in assists.
7. He is 10th in Offensive Rating. 11th in Win Shares. 10th in Offensive Win Shares. 10th in Assist Rate, 10th in Free Throw Rate.

Just don't see how anybody can call any of that good. Swing and a miss. The portal isn't for 10th men, and we have two portal guys (Cornish and Wiz) who can't impact games. That's on Boals and it can't continue if we want to be competitive.



I’ll just copy and paste what I edited and added above

He’s been statistically more effective in all of the double-digit games he’s played more than 14 minutes. When he takes at least 5 shot attempts, he’s shooting 43%.

I’m not calling it good, but I’m not calling it a swing and miss. Expecting to hit on all portal additions is also unrealistic. No team does that.



He's played more than 14 minutes twice. I don't see how it's useful to look at a sample size of two games as if it's more useful than the sample size of 11 games.

He looks an awful lot like a swing and a miss to me. The portal really shouldn't be for 10th men. In the portal, you have more info on players than you do recruiting out of high school. You don't have to project high school productivity to a faster, bigger, more physical game. You can see what guys did at the college level. Boals seems far too inclined to offer guys who can't get on the floor at P5 schools and the hit rate's been low.

We just don't have enough talent on this team. That's a result of recruiting in the portal and at the high school level. It hasn't been good enough.


Sure, but then how is useful (and fair for that matter) to look at sample sizes of games where he’s playing 6 (once) and 7 (three) mins and taking 1 to 2 shots and them deem him a bust collectively?

If anything, the argument can be made if he’s playing more, he’s getting more acclimated and therefore more productive than when he’s playing less.

The size isn’t large enough on Ike to really conclude anything. He looks like a guy who’s trying to find his footing in a new program after not playing last season.

Last Edited: 12/23/2023 4:05:19 PM by FJC31
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Member Since: 7/30/2010
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  Message Not Read  RE: Better Pay For A Big Man Next Season
   Posted: 12/23/2023 4:44:03 PM 
FJC31 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
FJC31 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
FJC31 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
FJC31 wrote:
I think Graffz is correct in how it likely played out. Evans is our big man addition next year to pair with AJC and Hadaway. Speaking of the latter two, both have proven to be formidable this season in the paint — if we run plays for them.

The problem this year isn’t the lack of size or another DW3, it’s playing too much iso ball and trying to be the 3PT that we aren’t. Play downhill ball, fast tempo, and to our strengths. That’s on Boals to implement.

I still don’t consider Ike a swing and miss. He knocked down a needed 3 last night and grabbed 4 rebounds. He cuts back door quite often and doesn’t get the ball.


Ike is our 10th man. He's barely in the rotation and had shot poorly. The portal should be a way to get guys who will contribute instantly. Reinforcements. Ike isnt that.


Smaller sample size based on minutes; but, Ike has the same shooting % as Jaylin and AJB. He’s also shot a higher % from 3 than Jaylin, Shereef, EJ4, and AJB. He’s made the same number of 3’s as EJ4 while taking 7 less attempts. Meanwhile, Shereef and and AJB have taken 20 more 3PT attempts than Ike and have only made 4 and 5 more.

He’s not a swing and miss. He’s been statistically more effective in all of the double-digit games he’s played excluding Defiance (since that game was a joke).


Sorry man, but any close look at Cornish's numbers shows he hasn't been good.

Comparing him to other guys who haven't been good doesn't make him good. AJB is injured, so it's not a knock against him, but he's been bad this year. Straight up bad. It's not a good thing that Cornish has the same shooting percentage as him. And Jaylin Hunter's shooting us out of games. Again, the ball doesn't move in our offense, and there's nobody else to take those shots. So not exactly a knock on Hunter. But Hunter hasn't been good, either.

For reference on Cornish:

1. He's 10th on the team in 2p %.
2. 7th on a bad shooting team in FG% at 39%
3. Middle of the team from 3 at 35% but only shooting one per game.
4. Overall, he's 8th on the team in effective field goal rate. And this team is a VERY BAD shooting team. He's 9th in Effective Field Goal rate. The only rotation guys he's ahead of are the two obviously injured Browns.
5. His PER is 11th on the team at 11.7. PER has plenty of issues, but that's not good.
6. He's basically a black hole. When he gets the ball, he shoots it. And he's not a good shooter. Per 40 minutes he's only ahead of AJ Brown and Clayton in assists.
7. He is 10th in Offensive Rating. 11th in Win Shares. 10th in Offensive Win Shares. 10th in Assist Rate, 10th in Free Throw Rate.

Just don't see how anybody can call any of that good. Swing and a miss. The portal isn't for 10th men, and we have two portal guys (Cornish and Wiz) who can't impact games. That's on Boals and it can't continue if we want to be competitive.



I’ll just copy and paste what I edited and added above

He’s been statistically more effective in all of the double-digit games he’s played more than 14 minutes. When he takes at least 5 shot attempts, he’s shooting 43%.

I’m not calling it good, but I’m not calling it a swing and miss. Expecting to hit on all portal additions is also unrealistic. No team does that.



He's played more than 14 minutes twice. I don't see how it's useful to look at a sample size of two games as if it's more useful than the sample size of 11 games.

He looks an awful lot like a swing and a miss to me. The portal really shouldn't be for 10th men. In the portal, you have more info on players than you do recruiting out of high school. You don't have to project high school productivity to a faster, bigger, more physical game. You can see what guys did at the college level. Boals seems far too inclined to offer guys who can't get on the floor at P5 schools and the hit rate's been low.

We just don't have enough talent on this team. That's a result of recruiting in the portal and at the high school level. It hasn't been good enough.


Sure, but then how is useful (and fair for that matter) to look at sample sizes of games where he’s playing 6 (once) and 7 (three) mins and taking 1 to 2 shots and them deem him a bust collectively?

If anything, the argument can be made if he’s playing more, he’s getting more acclimated and therefore more productive than when he’s playing less.

The size isn’t large enough on Ike to really conclude anything. He looks like a guy who’s trying to find his footing in a new program after not playing last season.


I'm looking at the only sample size there is. Because the reality is that the largest sample size that exists on Ike Cornish is one that suggests multiple coaches don't think he's worth playing meaningful minutes. He didn't see the floor at Maryland, and he's currently the 10th man on a 6-5 team that's basically been underwhelming in every facet of the game.

In the minutes he's played, his productivity isn't particularly promising. And the fact that he can't break into the rotation in a meaningful, at a second straight school, is a huge, huge red flag.
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FJC31
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Member Since: 3/31/2022
Post Count: 1,261

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Better Pay For A Big Man Next Season
   Posted: 12/23/2023 5:30:33 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
FJC31 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
FJC31 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
FJC31 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
FJC31 wrote:
I think Graffz is correct in how it likely played out. Evans is our big man addition next year to pair with AJC and Hadaway. Speaking of the latter two, both have proven to be formidable this season in the paint — if we run plays for them.

The problem this year isn’t the lack of size or another DW3, it’s playing too much iso ball and trying to be the 3PT that we aren’t. Play downhill ball, fast tempo, and to our strengths. That’s on Boals to implement.

I still don’t consider Ike a swing and miss. He knocked down a needed 3 last night and grabbed 4 rebounds. He cuts back door quite often and doesn’t get the ball.


Ike is our 10th man. He's barely in the rotation and had shot poorly. The portal should be a way to get guys who will contribute instantly. Reinforcements. Ike isnt that.


Smaller sample size based on minutes; but, Ike has the same shooting % as Jaylin and AJB. He’s also shot a higher % from 3 than Jaylin, Shereef, EJ4, and AJB. He’s made the same number of 3’s as EJ4 while taking 7 less attempts. Meanwhile, Shereef and and AJB have taken 20 more 3PT attempts than Ike and have only made 4 and 5 more.

He’s not a swing and miss. He’s been statistically more effective in all of the double-digit games he’s played excluding Defiance (since that game was a joke).


Sorry man, but any close look at Cornish's numbers shows he hasn't been good.

Comparing him to other guys who haven't been good doesn't make him good. AJB is injured, so it's not a knock against him, but he's been bad this year. Straight up bad. It's not a good thing that Cornish has the same shooting percentage as him. And Jaylin Hunter's shooting us out of games. Again, the ball doesn't move in our offense, and there's nobody else to take those shots. So not exactly a knock on Hunter. But Hunter hasn't been good, either.

For reference on Cornish:

1. He's 10th on the team in 2p %.
2. 7th on a bad shooting team in FG% at 39%
3. Middle of the team from 3 at 35% but only shooting one per game.
4. Overall, he's 8th on the team in effective field goal rate. And this team is a VERY BAD shooting team. He's 9th in Effective Field Goal rate. The only rotation guys he's ahead of are the two obviously injured Browns.
5. His PER is 11th on the team at 11.7. PER has plenty of issues, but that's not good.
6. He's basically a black hole. When he gets the ball, he shoots it. And he's not a good shooter. Per 40 minutes he's only ahead of AJ Brown and Clayton in assists.
7. He is 10th in Offensive Rating. 11th in Win Shares. 10th in Offensive Win Shares. 10th in Assist Rate, 10th in Free Throw Rate.

Just don't see how anybody can call any of that good. Swing and a miss. The portal isn't for 10th men, and we have two portal guys (Cornish and Wiz) who can't impact games. That's on Boals and it can't continue if we want to be competitive.



I’ll just copy and paste what I edited and added above

He’s been statistically more effective in all of the double-digit games he’s played more than 14 minutes. When he takes at least 5 shot attempts, he’s shooting 43%.

I’m not calling it good, but I’m not calling it a swing and miss. Expecting to hit on all portal additions is also unrealistic. No team does that.



He's played more than 14 minutes twice. I don't see how it's useful to look at a sample size of two games as if it's more useful than the sample size of 11 games.

He looks an awful lot like a swing and a miss to me. The portal really shouldn't be for 10th men. In the portal, you have more info on players than you do recruiting out of high school. You don't have to project high school productivity to a faster, bigger, more physical game. You can see what guys did at the college level. Boals seems far too inclined to offer guys who can't get on the floor at P5 schools and the hit rate's been low.

We just don't have enough talent on this team. That's a result of recruiting in the portal and at the high school level. It hasn't been good enough.


Sure, but then how is useful (and fair for that matter) to look at sample sizes of games where he’s playing 6 (once) and 7 (three) mins and taking 1 to 2 shots and them deem him a bust collectively?

If anything, the argument can be made if he’s playing more, he’s getting more acclimated and therefore more productive than when he’s playing less.

The size isn’t large enough on Ike to really conclude anything. He looks like a guy who’s trying to find his footing in a new program after not playing last season.


I'm looking at the only sample size there is. Because the reality is that the largest sample size that exists on Ike Cornish is one that suggests multiple coaches don't think he's worth playing meaningful minutes. He didn't see the floor at Maryland, and he's currently the 10th man on a 6-5 team that's basically been underwhelming in every facet of the game.

In the minutes he's played, his productivity isn't particularly promising. And the fact that he can't break into the rotation in a meaningful, at a second straight school, is a huge, huge red flag.


You’re cherry picking the sample size as a Bobcat. You’re not giving him credit for the games he’s played more minutes and played well, but you’re deeming him a bust off of 6 minute appearances. He played 11 mins last night, made his only 3pt, and grabbed 4 rebounds. But sure, those aren’t meaningful minutes.

I’m not sure why you keep bringing up Maryland. Who cares if he didn’t play there. If he saw the court, he wouldn’t have entered the portal. That’s like me arguing he was supposed to visit Grand Canyon and visited George Mason before choosing Ohio.

We don’t know what Ike is yet. Which as I’ve alluded, isn’t great but isn’t bad. Still way too early.

Last Edited: 12/23/2023 5:32:58 PM by FJC31
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Member Since: 7/30/2010
Post Count: 3,304

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  Message Not Read  RE: Better Pay For A Big Man Next Season
   Posted: 12/23/2023 6:11:00 PM 
FJC31 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
FJC31 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
FJC31 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
FJC31 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
FJC31 wrote:
I think Graffz is correct in how it likely played out. Evans is our big man addition next year to pair with AJC and Hadaway. Speaking of the latter two, both have proven to be formidable this season in the paint — if we run plays for them.

The problem this year isn’t the lack of size or another DW3, it’s playing too much iso ball and trying to be the 3PT that we aren’t. Play downhill ball, fast tempo, and to our strengths. That’s on Boals to implement.

I still don’t consider Ike a swing and miss. He knocked down a needed 3 last night and grabbed 4 rebounds. He cuts back door quite often and doesn’t get the ball.


Ike is our 10th man. He's barely in the rotation and had shot poorly. The portal should be a way to get guys who will contribute instantly. Reinforcements. Ike isnt that.


Smaller sample size based on minutes; but, Ike has the same shooting % as Jaylin and AJB. He’s also shot a higher % from 3 than Jaylin, Shereef, EJ4, and AJB. He’s made the same number of 3’s as EJ4 while taking 7 less attempts. Meanwhile, Shereef and and AJB have taken 20 more 3PT attempts than Ike and have only made 4 and 5 more.

He’s not a swing and miss. He’s been statistically more effective in all of the double-digit games he’s played excluding Defiance (since that game was a joke).


Sorry man, but any close look at Cornish's numbers shows he hasn't been good.

Comparing him to other guys who haven't been good doesn't make him good. AJB is injured, so it's not a knock against him, but he's been bad this year. Straight up bad. It's not a good thing that Cornish has the same shooting percentage as him. And Jaylin Hunter's shooting us out of games. Again, the ball doesn't move in our offense, and there's nobody else to take those shots. So not exactly a knock on Hunter. But Hunter hasn't been good, either.

For reference on Cornish:

1. He's 10th on the team in 2p %.
2. 7th on a bad shooting team in FG% at 39%
3. Middle of the team from 3 at 35% but only shooting one per game.
4. Overall, he's 8th on the team in effective field goal rate. And this team is a VERY BAD shooting team. He's 9th in Effective Field Goal rate. The only rotation guys he's ahead of are the two obviously injured Browns.
5. His PER is 11th on the team at 11.7. PER has plenty of issues, but that's not good.
6. He's basically a black hole. When he gets the ball, he shoots it. And he's not a good shooter. Per 40 minutes he's only ahead of AJ Brown and Clayton in assists.
7. He is 10th in Offensive Rating. 11th in Win Shares. 10th in Offensive Win Shares. 10th in Assist Rate, 10th in Free Throw Rate.

Just don't see how anybody can call any of that good. Swing and a miss. The portal isn't for 10th men, and we have two portal guys (Cornish and Wiz) who can't impact games. That's on Boals and it can't continue if we want to be competitive.



I’ll just copy and paste what I edited and added above

He’s been statistically more effective in all of the double-digit games he’s played more than 14 minutes. When he takes at least 5 shot attempts, he’s shooting 43%.

I’m not calling it good, but I’m not calling it a swing and miss. Expecting to hit on all portal additions is also unrealistic. No team does that.



He's played more than 14 minutes twice. I don't see how it's useful to look at a sample size of two games as if it's more useful than the sample size of 11 games.

He looks an awful lot like a swing and a miss to me. The portal really shouldn't be for 10th men. In the portal, you have more info on players than you do recruiting out of high school. You don't have to project high school productivity to a faster, bigger, more physical game. You can see what guys did at the college level. Boals seems far too inclined to offer guys who can't get on the floor at P5 schools and the hit rate's been low.

We just don't have enough talent on this team. That's a result of recruiting in the portal and at the high school level. It hasn't been good enough.


Sure, but then how is useful (and fair for that matter) to look at sample sizes of games where he’s playing 6 (once) and 7 (three) mins and taking 1 to 2 shots and them deem him a bust collectively?

If anything, the argument can be made if he’s playing more, he’s getting more acclimated and therefore more productive than when he’s playing less.

The size isn’t large enough on Ike to really conclude anything. He looks like a guy who’s trying to find his footing in a new program after not playing last season.


I'm looking at the only sample size there is. Because the reality is that the largest sample size that exists on Ike Cornish is one that suggests multiple coaches don't think he's worth playing meaningful minutes. He didn't see the floor at Maryland, and he's currently the 10th man on a 6-5 team that's basically been underwhelming in every facet of the game.

In the minutes he's played, his productivity isn't particularly promising. And the fact that he can't break into the rotation in a meaningful, at a second straight school, is a huge, huge red flag.


You’re cherry picking the sample size as a Bobcat. You’re not giving him credit for the games he’s played more minutes and played well, but you’re deeming him a bust off of 6 minute appearances. He played 11 mins last night, made his only 3pt, and grabbed 4 rebounds. But sure, those aren’t meaningful minutes.

I’m not sure why you keep bringing up Maryland. Who cares if he didn’t play there. If he saw the court, he wouldn’t have entered the portal. That’s like me arguing he was supposed to visit Grand Canyon and visited George Mason before choosing Ohio.

We don’t know what Ike is yet. Which as I’ve alluded, isn’t great but isn’t bad. Still way too early.


Not great, not bad. Ohio University basketball, feel the excitement.

We're not gonna agree that a two game sample is now relevant than the other 190 minutes he's played in his career. I appreciate the optimism, but if Cornish was a good signing, he wouldn't be the 10th man on an underwhelming 6-5 team. Is what it is. Hopefully I turn out to be very wrong on this. But it's pretty clear that we know what Cornish is.
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FJC31
General User

Member Since: 3/31/2022
Post Count: 1,261

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Better Pay For A Big Man Next Season
   Posted: 12/24/2023 8:08:24 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
FJC31 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
FJC31 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
FJC31 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
FJC31 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
FJC31 wrote:
I think Graffz is correct in how it likely played out. Evans is our big man addition next year to pair with AJC and Hadaway. Speaking of the latter two, both have proven to be formidable this season in the paint — if we run plays for them.

The problem this year isn’t the lack of size or another DW3, it’s playing too much iso ball and trying to be the 3PT that we aren’t. Play downhill ball, fast tempo, and to our strengths. That’s on Boals to implement.

I still don’t consider Ike a swing and miss. He knocked down a needed 3 last night and grabbed 4 rebounds. He cuts back door quite often and doesn’t get the ball.


Ike is our 10th man. He's barely in the rotation and had shot poorly. The portal should be a way to get guys who will contribute instantly. Reinforcements. Ike isnt that.


Smaller sample size based on minutes; but, Ike has the same shooting % as Jaylin and AJB. He’s also shot a higher % from 3 than Jaylin, Shereef, EJ4, and AJB. He’s made the same number of 3’s as EJ4 while taking 7 less attempts. Meanwhile, Shereef and and AJB have taken 20 more 3PT attempts than Ike and have only made 4 and 5 more.

He’s not a swing and miss. He’s been statistically more effective in all of the double-digit games he’s played excluding Defiance (since that game was a joke).


Sorry man, but any close look at Cornish's numbers shows he hasn't been good.

Comparing him to other guys who haven't been good doesn't make him good. AJB is injured, so it's not a knock against him, but he's been bad this year. Straight up bad. It's not a good thing that Cornish has the same shooting percentage as him. And Jaylin Hunter's shooting us out of games. Again, the ball doesn't move in our offense, and there's nobody else to take those shots. So not exactly a knock on Hunter. But Hunter hasn't been good, either.

For reference on Cornish:

1. He's 10th on the team in 2p %.
2. 7th on a bad shooting team in FG% at 39%
3. Middle of the team from 3 at 35% but only shooting one per game.
4. Overall, he's 8th on the team in effective field goal rate. And this team is a VERY BAD shooting team. He's 9th in Effective Field Goal rate. The only rotation guys he's ahead of are the two obviously injured Browns.
5. His PER is 11th on the team at 11.7. PER has plenty of issues, but that's not good.
6. He's basically a black hole. When he gets the ball, he shoots it. And he's not a good shooter. Per 40 minutes he's only ahead of AJ Brown and Clayton in assists.
7. He is 10th in Offensive Rating. 11th in Win Shares. 10th in Offensive Win Shares. 10th in Assist Rate, 10th in Free Throw Rate.

Just don't see how anybody can call any of that good. Swing and a miss. The portal isn't for 10th men, and we have two portal guys (Cornish and Wiz) who can't impact games. That's on Boals and it can't continue if we want to be competitive.



I’ll just copy and paste what I edited and added above

He’s been statistically more effective in all of the double-digit games he’s played more than 14 minutes. When he takes at least 5 shot attempts, he’s shooting 43%.

I’m not calling it good, but I’m not calling it a swing and miss. Expecting to hit on all portal additions is also unrealistic. No team does that.



He's played more than 14 minutes twice. I don't see how it's useful to look at a sample size of two games as if it's more useful than the sample size of 11 games.

He looks an awful lot like a swing and a miss to me. The portal really shouldn't be for 10th men. In the portal, you have more info on players than you do recruiting out of high school. You don't have to project high school productivity to a faster, bigger, more physical game. You can see what guys did at the college level. Boals seems far too inclined to offer guys who can't get on the floor at P5 schools and the hit rate's been low.

We just don't have enough talent on this team. That's a result of recruiting in the portal and at the high school level. It hasn't been good enough.


Sure, but then how is useful (and fair for that matter) to look at sample sizes of games where he’s playing 6 (once) and 7 (three) mins and taking 1 to 2 shots and them deem him a bust collectively?

If anything, the argument can be made if he’s playing more, he’s getting more acclimated and therefore more productive than when he’s playing less.

The size isn’t large enough on Ike to really conclude anything. He looks like a guy who’s trying to find his footing in a new program after not playing last season.


I'm looking at the only sample size there is. Because the reality is that the largest sample size that exists on Ike Cornish is one that suggests multiple coaches don't think he's worth playing meaningful minutes. He didn't see the floor at Maryland, and he's currently the 10th man on a 6-5 team that's basically been underwhelming in every facet of the game.

In the minutes he's played, his productivity isn't particularly promising. And the fact that he can't break into the rotation in a meaningful, at a second straight school, is a huge, huge red flag.


You’re cherry picking the sample size as a Bobcat. You’re not giving him credit for the games he’s played more minutes and played well, but you’re deeming him a bust off of 6 minute appearances. He played 11 mins last night, made his only 3pt, and grabbed 4 rebounds. But sure, those aren’t meaningful minutes.

I’m not sure why you keep bringing up Maryland. Who cares if he didn’t play there. If he saw the court, he wouldn’t have entered the portal. That’s like me arguing he was supposed to visit Grand Canyon and visited George Mason before choosing Ohio.

We don’t know what Ike is yet. Which as I’ve alluded, isn’t great but isn’t bad. Still way too early.


Not great, not bad. Ohio University basketball, feel the excitement.

We're not gonna agree that a two game sample is now relevant than the other 190 minutes he's played in his career. I appreciate the optimism, but if Cornish was a good signing, he wouldn't be the 10th man on an underwhelming 6-5 team. Is what it is. Hopefully I turn out to be very wrong on this. But it's pretty clear that we know what Cornish is.


When you remove all of the games he played double digits, the remaining minutes you’re referring to equate to less than a game. So we’re going to determine what he is based on that, but throw away the sample size on what he’s done with more minutes?

It isn’t clear at all what he is. What is clear is he still doesn’t look fully comfortable out there yet. Listen I get it, we all wish we landed another big. On the flip side we’d all be pretty disappointed with just Shereef as the lone portal add.

This board had been clamoring for 6’6-6’7 wing for years. You take the opportunity to add that all day if you can to further develop.

Would I rather have a big on this years team? 100%, but none of us know what the convos entailed and it’s a two-way street.

Speaking of bigs, Javonte Brown went for 21 points and 5 rebounds Thursday against Cleveland State. Pain. Would really love to know how he got away to WMU after the previous recruitment of him out of HS.

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BillyTheCat
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Member Since: 10/6/2012
Post Count: 9,527

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  Message Not Read  RE: Better Pay For A Big Man Next Season
   Posted: 12/24/2023 8:13:07 AM 
Alan Swank wrote:
Lot of speculation on nil deals in this thread. I'm guessing the "guesses" are way over-inflated so I did a quick search and found this article. I wonder if anyone from the local media has pursued this.

https://www.templelawreview.org/article/blowing-the-whist... .


Believe this is currently in the courts right now.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
General User

Member Since: 7/30/2010
Post Count: 3,304

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Better Pay For A Big Man Next Season
   Posted: 12/24/2023 8:23:55 AM 
FJC31 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
FJC31 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
FJC31 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
FJC31 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
FJC31 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
FJC31 wrote:
I think Graffz is correct in how it likely played out. Evans is our big man addition next year to pair with AJC and Hadaway. Speaking of the latter two, both have proven to be formidable this season in the paint — if we run plays for them.

The problem this year isn’t the lack of size or another DW3, it’s playing too much iso ball and trying to be the 3PT that we aren’t. Play downhill ball, fast tempo, and to our strengths. That’s on Boals to implement.

I still don’t consider Ike a swing and miss. He knocked down a needed 3 last night and grabbed 4 rebounds. He cuts back door quite often and doesn’t get the ball.


Ike is our 10th man. He's barely in the rotation and had shot poorly. The portal should be a way to get guys who will contribute instantly. Reinforcements. Ike isnt that.


Smaller sample size based on minutes; but, Ike has the same shooting % as Jaylin and AJB. He’s also shot a higher % from 3 than Jaylin, Shereef, EJ4, and AJB. He’s made the same number of 3’s as EJ4 while taking 7 less attempts. Meanwhile, Shereef and and AJB have taken 20 more 3PT attempts than Ike and have only made 4 and 5 more.

He’s not a swing and miss. He’s been statistically more effective in all of the double-digit games he’s played excluding Defiance (since that game was a joke).


Sorry man, but any close look at Cornish's numbers shows he hasn't been good.

Comparing him to other guys who haven't been good doesn't make him good. AJB is injured, so it's not a knock against him, but he's been bad this year. Straight up bad. It's not a good thing that Cornish has the same shooting percentage as him. And Jaylin Hunter's shooting us out of games. Again, the ball doesn't move in our offense, and there's nobody else to take those shots. So not exactly a knock on Hunter. But Hunter hasn't been good, either.

For reference on Cornish:

1. He's 10th on the team in 2p %.
2. 7th on a bad shooting team in FG% at 39%
3. Middle of the team from 3 at 35% but only shooting one per game.
4. Overall, he's 8th on the team in effective field goal rate. And this team is a VERY BAD shooting team. He's 9th in Effective Field Goal rate. The only rotation guys he's ahead of are the two obviously injured Browns.
5. His PER is 11th on the team at 11.7. PER has plenty of issues, but that's not good.
6. He's basically a black hole. When he gets the ball, he shoots it. And he's not a good shooter. Per 40 minutes he's only ahead of AJ Brown and Clayton in assists.
7. He is 10th in Offensive Rating. 11th in Win Shares. 10th in Offensive Win Shares. 10th in Assist Rate, 10th in Free Throw Rate.

Just don't see how anybody can call any of that good. Swing and a miss. The portal isn't for 10th men, and we have two portal guys (Cornish and Wiz) who can't impact games. That's on Boals and it can't continue if we want to be competitive.



I’ll just copy and paste what I edited and added above

He’s been statistically more effective in all of the double-digit games he’s played more than 14 minutes. When he takes at least 5 shot attempts, he’s shooting 43%.

I’m not calling it good, but I’m not calling it a swing and miss. Expecting to hit on all portal additions is also unrealistic. No team does that.



He's played more than 14 minutes twice. I don't see how it's useful to look at a sample size of two games as if it's more useful than the sample size of 11 games.

He looks an awful lot like a swing and a miss to me. The portal really shouldn't be for 10th men. In the portal, you have more info on players than you do recruiting out of high school. You don't have to project high school productivity to a faster, bigger, more physical game. You can see what guys did at the college level. Boals seems far too inclined to offer guys who can't get on the floor at P5 schools and the hit rate's been low.

We just don't have enough talent on this team. That's a result of recruiting in the portal and at the high school level. It hasn't been good enough.


Sure, but then how is useful (and fair for that matter) to look at sample sizes of games where he’s playing 6 (once) and 7 (three) mins and taking 1 to 2 shots and them deem him a bust collectively?

If anything, the argument can be made if he’s playing more, he’s getting more acclimated and therefore more productive than when he’s playing less.

The size isn’t large enough on Ike to really conclude anything. He looks like a guy who’s trying to find his footing in a new program after not playing last season.


I'm looking at the only sample size there is. Because the reality is that the largest sample size that exists on Ike Cornish is one that suggests multiple coaches don't think he's worth playing meaningful minutes. He didn't see the floor at Maryland, and he's currently the 10th man on a 6-5 team that's basically been underwhelming in every facet of the game.

In the minutes he's played, his productivity isn't particularly promising. And the fact that he can't break into the rotation in a meaningful, at a second straight school, is a huge, huge red flag.


You’re cherry picking the sample size as a Bobcat. You’re not giving him credit for the games he’s played more minutes and played well, but you’re deeming him a bust off of 6 minute appearances. He played 11 mins last night, made his only 3pt, and grabbed 4 rebounds. But sure, those aren’t meaningful minutes.

I’m not sure why you keep bringing up Maryland. Who cares if he didn’t play there. If he saw the court, he wouldn’t have entered the portal. That’s like me arguing he was supposed to visit Grand Canyon and visited George Mason before choosing Ohio.

We don’t know what Ike is yet. Which as I’ve alluded, isn’t great but isn’t bad. Still way too early.


Not great, not bad. Ohio University basketball, feel the excitement.

We're not gonna agree that a two game sample is now relevant than the other 190 minutes he's played in his career. I appreciate the optimism, but if Cornish was a good signing, he wouldn't be the 10th man on an underwhelming 6-5 team. Is what it is. Hopefully I turn out to be very wrong on this. But it's pretty clear that we know what Cornish is.


When you remove all of the games he played double digits, the remaining minutes you’re referring to equate to less than a game. So we’re going to determine what he is based on that, but throw away the sample size on what he’s done with more minutes?

It isn’t clear at all what he is. What is clear is he still doesn’t look fully comfortable out there yet. Listen I get it, we all wish we landed another big. On the flip side we’d all be pretty disappointed with just Shereef as the lone portal add.

This board had been clamoring for 6’6-6’7 wing for years. You take the opportunity to add that all day if you can to further develop.

Would I rather have a big on this years team? 100%, but none of us know what the convos entailed and it’s a two-way street.

Speaking of bigs, Javonte Brown went for 21 points and 5 rebounds Thursday against Cleveland State. Pain. Would really love to know how he got away to WMU after the previous recruitment of him out of HS.



I'm not removing the games he's played double digits minutes. I'm not removing anything.

You are the only one trying to throw out minutes, and you're the one reducing the sample size to draw conclusions. I'm looking at the largest possible sample size, and drawing my conclusions based on the sum total of what Cornish has done in the the three years he's been out of high school. The metrics I cited include every single minute he's played this year. They're not good. Isolating two games paints a nicer picture. It also is the definition of cherry picking, which you're doing while accusing me of cherry picking for including the entire sample in my analysis. You recognize how strange that is, right?

You seem not to think it's significant that two different college basketball coaches have decided that Ike Cornish isn't a starter, and instead is one of the last guys off the bench. I don't think that's insignificant, and I don't think that's the profile that anybody should recruit from the portal.

At this point, I'm not even sure what point we're parsing. It seems like you're arguing that Cornish is a low ceiling player, who isn't great, but isn't bad. To me, that's still a swing and a miss. That's absolutely not what the portal is for. You need contributors from the portal, not projects, and we're going to continue this slide towards mediocrity if the staff keeps adding guys like this.

My critique of Cornish isn't solely in the context of needing a big, either. We need better players than Cornish. Maybe he'll prove me wrong in a couple of years. I hope so. But right now, he hasn't been a significant addition to the team.

Last Edited: 12/24/2023 8:32:09 AM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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FJC31
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  Message Not Read  RE: Better Pay For A Big Man Next Season
   Posted: 12/24/2023 10:01:43 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
FJC31 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
FJC31 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
FJC31 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
FJC31 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
FJC31 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
FJC31 wrote:
I think Graffz is correct in how it likely played out. Evans is our big man addition next year to pair with AJC and Hadaway. Speaking of the latter two, both have proven to be formidable this season in the paint — if we run plays for them.

The problem this year isn’t the lack of size or another DW3, it’s playing too much iso ball and trying to be the 3PT that we aren’t. Play downhill ball, fast tempo, and to our strengths. That’s on Boals to implement.

I still don’t consider Ike a swing and miss. He knocked down a needed 3 last night and grabbed 4 rebounds. He cuts back door quite often and doesn’t get the ball.


Ike is our 10th man. He's barely in the rotation and had shot poorly. The portal should be a way to get guys who will contribute instantly. Reinforcements. Ike isnt that.


Smaller sample size based on minutes; but, Ike has the same shooting % as Jaylin and AJB. He’s also shot a higher % from 3 than Jaylin, Shereef, EJ4, and AJB. He’s made the same number of 3’s as EJ4 while taking 7 less attempts. Meanwhile, Shereef and and AJB have taken 20 more 3PT attempts than Ike and have only made 4 and 5 more.

He’s not a swing and miss. He’s been statistically more effective in all of the double-digit games he’s played excluding Defiance (since that game was a joke).


Sorry man, but any close look at Cornish's numbers shows he hasn't been good.

Comparing him to other guys who haven't been good doesn't make him good. AJB is injured, so it's not a knock against him, but he's been bad this year. Straight up bad. It's not a good thing that Cornish has the same shooting percentage as him. And Jaylin Hunter's shooting us out of games. Again, the ball doesn't move in our offense, and there's nobody else to take those shots. So not exactly a knock on Hunter. But Hunter hasn't been good, either.

For reference on Cornish:

1. He's 10th on the team in 2p %.
2. 7th on a bad shooting team in FG% at 39%
3. Middle of the team from 3 at 35% but only shooting one per game.
4. Overall, he's 8th on the team in effective field goal rate. And this team is a VERY BAD shooting team. He's 9th in Effective Field Goal rate. The only rotation guys he's ahead of are the two obviously injured Browns.
5. His PER is 11th on the team at 11.7. PER has plenty of issues, but that's not good.
6. He's basically a black hole. When he gets the ball, he shoots it. And he's not a good shooter. Per 40 minutes he's only ahead of AJ Brown and Clayton in assists.
7. He is 10th in Offensive Rating. 11th in Win Shares. 10th in Offensive Win Shares. 10th in Assist Rate, 10th in Free Throw Rate.

Just don't see how anybody can call any of that good. Swing and a miss. The portal isn't for 10th men, and we have two portal guys (Cornish and Wiz) who can't impact games. That's on Boals and it can't continue if we want to be competitive.



I’ll just copy and paste what I edited and added above

He’s been statistically more effective in all of the double-digit games he’s played more than 14 minutes. When he takes at least 5 shot attempts, he’s shooting 43%.

I’m not calling it good, but I’m not calling it a swing and miss. Expecting to hit on all portal additions is also unrealistic. No team does that.



He's played more than 14 minutes twice. I don't see how it's useful to look at a sample size of two games as if it's more useful than the sample size of 11 games.

He looks an awful lot like a swing and a miss to me. The portal really shouldn't be for 10th men. In the portal, you have more info on players than you do recruiting out of high school. You don't have to project high school productivity to a faster, bigger, more physical game. You can see what guys did at the college level. Boals seems far too inclined to offer guys who can't get on the floor at P5 schools and the hit rate's been low.

We just don't have enough talent on this team. That's a result of recruiting in the portal and at the high school level. It hasn't been good enough.


Sure, but then how is useful (and fair for that matter) to look at sample sizes of games where he’s playing 6 (once) and 7 (three) mins and taking 1 to 2 shots and them deem him a bust collectively?

If anything, the argument can be made if he’s playing more, he’s getting more acclimated and therefore more productive than when he’s playing less.

The size isn’t large enough on Ike to really conclude anything. He looks like a guy who’s trying to find his footing in a new program after not playing last season.


I'm looking at the only sample size there is. Because the reality is that the largest sample size that exists on Ike Cornish is one that suggests multiple coaches don't think he's worth playing meaningful minutes. He didn't see the floor at Maryland, and he's currently the 10th man on a 6-5 team that's basically been underwhelming in every facet of the game.

In the minutes he's played, his productivity isn't particularly promising. And the fact that he can't break into the rotation in a meaningful, at a second straight school, is a huge, huge red flag.


You’re cherry picking the sample size as a Bobcat. You’re not giving him credit for the games he’s played more minutes and played well, but you’re deeming him a bust off of 6 minute appearances. He played 11 mins last night, made his only 3pt, and grabbed 4 rebounds. But sure, those aren’t meaningful minutes.

I’m not sure why you keep bringing up Maryland. Who cares if he didn’t play there. If he saw the court, he wouldn’t have entered the portal. That’s like me arguing he was supposed to visit Grand Canyon and visited George Mason before choosing Ohio.

We don’t know what Ike is yet. Which as I’ve alluded, isn’t great but isn’t bad. Still way too early.


Not great, not bad. Ohio University basketball, feel the excitement.

We're not gonna agree that a two game sample is now relevant than the other 190 minutes he's played in his career. I appreciate the optimism, but if Cornish was a good signing, he wouldn't be the 10th man on an underwhelming 6-5 team. Is what it is. Hopefully I turn out to be very wrong on this. But it's pretty clear that we know what Cornish is.


When you remove all of the games he played double digits, the remaining minutes you’re referring to equate to less than a game. So we’re going to determine what he is based on that, but throw away the sample size on what he’s done with more minutes?

It isn’t clear at all what he is. What is clear is he still doesn’t look fully comfortable out there yet. Listen I get it, we all wish we landed another big. On the flip side we’d all be pretty disappointed with just Shereef as the lone portal add.

This board had been clamoring for 6’6-6’7 wing for years. You take the opportunity to add that all day if you can to further develop.

Would I rather have a big on this years team? 100%, but none of us know what the convos entailed and it’s a two-way street.

Speaking of bigs, Javonte Brown went for 21 points and 5 rebounds Thursday against Cleveland State. Pain. Would really love to know how he got away to WMU after the previous recruitment of him out of HS.



I'm not removing the games he's played double digits minutes. I'm not removing anything.

You are the only one trying to throw out minutes, and you're the one reducing the sample size to draw conclusions. I'm looking at the largest possible sample size, and drawing my conclusions based on the sum total of what Cornish has done in the the three years he's been out of high school. The metrics I cited include every single minute he's played this year. They're not good. Isolating two games paints a nicer picture. It also is the definition of cherry picking, which you're doing while accusing me of cherry picking for including the entire sample in my analysis. You recognize how strange that is, right?

You seem not to think it's significant that two different college basketball coaches have decided that Ike Cornish isn't a starter, and instead is one of the last guys off the bench. I don't think that's insignificant, and I don't think that's the profile that anybody should recruit from the portal.

At this point, I'm not even sure what point we're parsing. It seems like you're arguing that Cornish is a low ceiling player, who isn't great, but isn't bad. To me, that's still a swing and a miss. That's absolutely not what the portal is for. You need contributors from the portal, not projects, and we're going to continue this slide towards mediocrity if the staff keeps adding guys like this.

My critique of Cornish isn't solely in the context of needing a big, either. We need better players than Cornish. Maybe he'll prove me wrong in a couple of years. I hope so. But right now, he hasn't been a significant addition to the team.



I’m confused, have you not alluded to 190 minutes as part of your stance?

Not removing games he’s played double-digit minutes to conclude your analysis is equivalent to looking at a hitters entire slash without breaking down how he faired against righties and lefties, then determining his overall value. Ike’s splits to date suggest he plays better when he plays more minutes.

My argument has remained the same from the beginning. It’s too soon to determine that Ike is a swing and miss. That would be IJ at this point. I’m not sure how I can make it any clearer that I don’t care what Ike did or didn’t do at Maryland. If he was playing significant minutes there, he would have made a lateral move to another P5 — if anything. He’s not a P5 player, but he hasn’t proven he’s not a mid-major player, either.

You seem to have an axe to grind with Ike just because he isn’t what you think he should be at this moment in time. Even going back to the Detroit thread where you still tried to deem him a swing and miss after he was our third leading scorer with 12 points in 19 minutes. In a game where AJB, EJ4, and Shereef struggled mightily. But you’re right man, he totally sucks and so does this team. Good grief.

Last Edited: 12/24/2023 10:03:48 AM by FJC31
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Better Pay For A Big Man Next Season
   Posted: 12/24/2023 12:38:52 PM 
FJC31 wrote:

I’m confused, have you not alluded to 190 minutes as part of your stance?


No, I haven't. Every stat/metric I've stated is based on the entire sample size of his minutes this season. The only mention of 190 minutes was to point out that you're insisting we toss out 190 minutes of playing time as irrelevant.

FJC31 wrote:


Not removing games he’s played double-digit minutes to conclude your analysis is equivalent to looking at a hitters entire slash without breaking down how he faired against righties and lefties, then determining his overall value. Ike’s splits to date suggest he plays better when he plays more minutes.


This is not equivalent at all. Do you not think there's a relationship between how a player is playing and the minutes Boals plays him? Of course Cornish is going to play more minutes when he's playing well; that he has so many games with so few minutes is a direct reflection of his contribution. It's honestly baffling that you think the fact that the coaching staff doesn't play him means nothing.


FJC31 wrote:

My argument has remained the same from the beginning. It’s too soon to determine that Ike is a swing and miss. That would be IJ at this point. I’m not sure how I can make it any clearer that I don’t care what Ike did or didn’t do at Maryland. If he was playing significant minutes there, he would have made a lateral move to another P5 — if anything. He’s not a P5 player, but he hasn’t proven he’s not a mid-major player, either.



My argument has remained the same from the beginning. And it doesn't necessitate ignoring 80% of the sample to support it.

Further, my argument is that the gulf between a good MAC player and a P5 player just isn't that substantial. I think the fact that a guy can't crack the rotation at Maryland basically means there's a single dogot percent chance he'll turn into a good player for us.


FJC31 wrote:

You seem to have an axe to grind with Ike just because he isn’t what you think he should be at this moment in time. Even going back to the Detroit thread where you still tried to deem him a swing and miss after he was our third leading scorer with 12 points in 19 minutes. In a game where AJB, EJ4, and Shereef struggled mightily. But you’re right man, he totally sucks and so does this team. Good grief.


I don't have an axe to grind with Ike. But I think he's another data point in the mounting evidence that Boals isn't a strong enough recruiter. A team that wasn't good enough last year added no impact guys in the off-season. Unless you count Shareef, who is a ball-stopping, volume scorer.

Let me know when you decide it's okay to be critical of that.
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FJC31
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  Message Not Read  RE: Better Pay For A Big Man Next Season
   Posted: 12/25/2023 7:38:42 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
FJC31 wrote:

I’m confused, have you not alluded to 190 minutes as part of your stance?


No, I haven't. Every stat/metric I've stated is based on the entire sample size of his minutes this season. The only mention of 190 minutes was to point out that you're insisting we toss out 190 minutes of playing time as irrelevant.

FJC31 wrote:


Not removing games he’s played double-digit minutes to conclude your analysis is equivalent to looking at a hitters entire slash without breaking down how he faired against righties and lefties, then determining his overall value. Ike’s splits to date suggest he plays better when he plays more minutes.


This is not equivalent at all. Do you not think there's a relationship between how a player is playing and the minutes Boals plays him? Of course Cornish is going to play more minutes when he's playing well; that he has so many games with so few minutes is a direct reflection of his contribution. It's honestly baffling that you think the fact that the coaching staff doesn't play him means nothing.


FJC31 wrote:

My argument has remained the same from the beginning. It’s too soon to determine that Ike is a swing and miss. That would be IJ at this point. I’m not sure how I can make it any clearer that I don’t care what Ike did or didn’t do at Maryland. If he was playing significant minutes there, he would have made a lateral move to another P5 — if anything. He’s not a P5 player, but he hasn’t proven he’s not a mid-major player, either.



My argument has remained the same from the beginning. And it doesn't necessitate ignoring 80% of the sample to support it.

Further, my argument is that the gulf between a good MAC player and a P5 player just isn't that substantial. I think the fact that a guy can't crack the rotation at Maryland basically means there's a single dogot percent chance he'll turn into a good player for us.


FJC31 wrote:

You seem to have an axe to grind with Ike just because he isn’t what you think he should be at this moment in time. Even going back to the Detroit thread where you still tried to deem him a swing and miss after he was our third leading scorer with 12 points in 19 minutes. In a game where AJB, EJ4, and Shereef struggled mightily. But you’re right man, he totally sucks and so does this team. Good grief.


I don't have an axe to grind with Ike. But I think he's another data point in the mounting evidence that Boals isn't a strong enough recruiter. A team that wasn't good enough last year added no impact guys in the off-season. Unless you count Shareef, who is a ball-stopping, volume scorer.

Let me know when you decide it's okay to be critical of that.


It is equivalent and I’ve already explained why. I find it less baffling the staff is playing him 11 minutes/game and your conclusion of his ability after games of 8 minutes and going 1/2 more odd. He’s not not contributing and he certainly isn’t hurting us. As I’ve already stated, it seems like you’re more upset he isn’t what you think he should be right now.

You are grossly overvaluing the strength of MAC (or Mid-Major in general) basketball in comparison to P5 basketball. Again, if aIguy is cracking the rotation at any P5 school, he’s certainly not looking for opportunities at this level. On the flip side, Tanner Holden couldn’t replicate success on a below .500 OSU team. Ali’s numbers dipped on a sub .500 Butler team. Where are they now?

I’ve already admitted Ike isn’t a P5 player but he has far from proven he isn’t a player at this level. Some people are glass half full, some are glass half empty. Others just have the wrong glass. Be critical all you want, let me know when it’s ok to be critical of your takes. Here, you first.

…also, Merry Christmas to all and apologies for hijacking this thread.

Last Edited: 12/25/2023 10:45:59 AM by FJC31
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greencat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Better Pay For A Big Man Next Season
   Posted: 12/25/2023 11:20:09 AM 
Cornish was actually very good in limited time vs APSU.

And then 13 points and 7 boards against the blind school before that.

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Happy merry festive December to all.

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M.D.W.S.T
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  Message Not Read  RE: Better Pay For A Big Man Next Season
   Posted: 12/26/2023 2:40:28 PM 
greencat wrote:
Cornish was actually very good in limited time vs APSU.

And then 13 points and 7 boards against the blind school before that.



Cornish is still developing his game, while also playing out of position here. He didn't play much as a freshman at Maryland. This is his first real PT and it's still pretty sparingly. He's buried behind five shoot-first guards. He's got this entire year - plus another two years to show us what he's got.

I'm not ready to call this a "miss" or to continue crying about it in every thread as some choose to do. Is Hadaway also a bust? Or are we happy he's developing?

The sky is not falling. He's 20. When AJB or Elmore jump into the portal next season, Ike is gonna be our sigh of relief.

And yes - I think we need a portal big man. Evans will more than likely be our man in the middle next season, but a lack of depth kills us.
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