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Topic:  RE: Strength Of MAC Hoops

Topic:  RE: Strength Of MAC Hoops
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Jeff McKinney
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  Message Not Read  RE: Strength Of MAC Hoops
   Posted: 12/1/2023 12:08:42 PM 
OUcat wrote:
As of 12/1/23 ... the MAC is very much an average unpredictable league. Every team in the league has two or more losses. No team, even among the projected contenders, looks 'stable'.

It's a 5-team MAC race based on the eye test (Akron, Ohio, Toledo, Kent, NIU) with a month for teams like BG, BSU and even EMU to show enough to join that bunch. A 'middle' mid-major league at best.

That's not to say, by the end of the season, a team won't emerge as a cut above. Indeed, most seasons that's exactly what happens. But we're three seasons into the NIL/Transfer Portal era and I think what we are starting to see now are the residual effects of that, in terms of team talent and team chemistry.

The only constant right now at the MAC level is keeping good coaches. I would argue, right now - in whatever order you wish to rank them - the current 5 best MAC teams have the 5-best MAC coaches. No matter how this season wears on, and we fans start complaining and talking about 'hot seats' I say look at Buffalo and then have some second thoughts.




Seems that the MAC loses more than it gains through the portal. A few years of that makes the league weaker.

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FearLeon
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  Message Not Read  RE: Strength Of MAC Hoops
   Posted: 12/3/2023 9:47:12 PM 
Toledo loses again at home against 6-1 George Mason. Conference can't beat anyone decent in non-con. Did see where Miami won at Marshall last night.

#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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M.D.W.S.T
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  Message Not Read  RE: Strength Of MAC Hoops
   Posted: 12/4/2023 10:28:48 AM 
FearLeon wrote:
Toledo loses again at home against 6-1 George Mason. Conference can't beat anyone decent in non-con. Did see where Miami won at Marshall last night.


Miami plays Ohio State this week, maybe they'll get another win.

Speaking of Miami... whats up with Mirambeux?

I googled him and the only thing I found was that he may not be on the team anymore, along with Safford. Safford is no longer on the roster, but Mirambeux is - but has no minutes this season.

Safford would be a nice addition to our stable of guards if he was looking for a new home. Has good size and scoring ability. From Columbus. Avg 15.5 last season.
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shabamon
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  Message Not Read  RE: Strength Of MAC Hoops
   Posted: 12/4/2023 11:05:43 AM 
M.D.W.S.T wrote:
FearLeon wrote:
Toledo loses again at home against 6-1 George Mason. Conference can't beat anyone decent in non-con. Did see where Miami won at Marshall last night.


Miami plays Ohio State this week, maybe they'll get another win.

Speaking of Miami... whats up with Mirambeux?

I googled him and the only thing I found was that he may not be on the team anymore, along with Safford. Safford is no longer on the roster, but Mirambeux is - but has no minutes this season.

Safford would be a nice addition to our stable of guards if he was looking for a new home. Has good size and scoring ability. From Columbus. Avg 15.5 last season.


Safford is at Kent. I don't know his status for the rest of the season.

Mirambeaux is out presumably for academic reasons but could return. Right now, they play only two guys taller than 6'5''. 6'8" sophomore Jaquel Morris is their "center" and 6'9" freshman Kotecki is his backup. Kotecki is pretty nice. They have a seven foot freshman who has been out with back problems. Interesting and encouraging that they beat Marshall on the road as the Herd play quite a bit of height.
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Cellis033
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  Message Not Read  RE: Strength Of MAC Hoops
   Posted: 12/4/2023 11:11:38 AM 
M.D.W.S.T wrote:
FearLeon wrote:
Toledo loses again at home against 6-1 George Mason. Conference can't beat anyone decent in non-con. Did see where Miami won at Marshall last night.


Miami plays Ohio State this week, maybe they'll get another win.

Speaking of Miami... whats up with Mirambeux?

I googled him and the only thing I found was that he may not be on the team anymore, along with Safford. Safford is no longer on the roster, but Mirambeux is - but has no minutes this season.

Safford would be a nice addition to our stable of guards if he was looking for a new home. Has good size and scoring ability. From Columbus. Avg 15.5 last season.


Safford from what I heard will be on Kent's roster next semester - shot in the arm potentially for the Flashes. Mirambeaux is likely not going to be eligible until December 15th as that is when Fiami's exam week ends.

Chase
OU Engineering Technology and Management '24
Future Honda of America Engineer
Bringing the noise!

Muck Fiami
Kant read, Kant write
Bowling Green Normie School
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Victory
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  Message Not Read  RE: Strength Of MAC Hoops
   Posted: 12/4/2023 3:06:21 PM 
So I have my system up and running. Most computers are still balancing their ratings by averaging in some preseason expectation. That's expected. It takes a good amount of data to connect 360 teams. But I don't have preseason expectations included and it has enough data to work pretty well so you can see how it looks unbiased.

I am of the opinion that inclusion in the postseason should be based mostly on a resume to to whom you defeated and defeated you rather than who you WOULD beat. Nobody was arguing that we shouldn't go to the MAC Championship last year because Rourke was injured and we don't make those sorts of arguments in professional sports at all. Oregon would still be favored to beat Washington if they played again. We don't want a system based exclusively on who the BEST teams are but more on who the most deserving teams are regardless of what the ESPN talking heads say to justify certain opinions. Anyway, to avoid going off on a tangent:

My evaluation of W/L record says that Ohio has the best resume in the MAC right now. The thing is, it isn't good. Our schedule has been week. It thinks that the best guess for a team 6-2 against our schedule is about 3.3 points above the average D1 team. That isn't even in the top 100. The MAC is probably heading for their first terrible seed in the NCAA tournament. There was a time for decades where the MAC was going to get a 12 or 13 almost regardless of who won the MAC tournament because it was decent and balanced. We have had crappy teams in the league post-pandemic but this year there are not 4 or 5 teams standing out from a bad crowd. I'd say NIL hasn't been good for the MAC.

As far as what it thinks the BEST team is, well, some of it was a little surprising.

Toledo +6½
NIU +6
Kent St. +4
Ohio +3
Akron +2
BGSU -2
WMU -4
Miami -5½
Ball St. -5½
EMU -8½
CMU -9
Buffalo -16 (What the heck has happened here. This looks like a warning for Ohio, Kent St., Toledo and Akron that, yes, a bad hire could leave you at the bottom of the MAC regardless of basketball tradition, recent success, and resources)

So Toledo and NIU have some close losses and it actually thinks that they are pretty decent. But their record isn't great and the conference as a whole isn't good.
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Buckeye to Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Strength Of MAC Hoops
   Posted: 12/5/2023 6:07:01 PM 
So.....3 days in Cleveland will decide this league.....yet again
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FearLeon
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  Message Not Read  RE: Strength Of MAC Hoops
   Posted: 12/5/2023 9:25:13 PM 
Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:
So.....3 days in Cleveland will decide this league.....yet again


By the time Cleveland rolls around....that tournament is going to be wide open with probably five teams having a real shot to win.

#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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Cellis033
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  Message Not Read  RE: Strength Of MAC Hoops
   Posted: 12/5/2023 9:56:27 PM 
Status of MACtion tonight:

Akron gets the victory over Bradley, 67-52.

NIU blown out by Larry Bird University 90-67.

West Mich Rec smoked by Irish 86-65.

Kent above SDSU 14-10 early in 1st.

Buffs getting a lesson in basketball by Butler in Hinkle early in second half 56-44.

Last Edited: 12/5/2023 9:57:20 PM by Cellis033

Chase
OU Engineering Technology and Management '24
Future Honda of America Engineer
Bringing the noise!

Muck Fiami
Kant read, Kant write
Bowling Green Normie School
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Victory
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  Message Not Read  RE: Strength Of MAC Hoops
   Posted: 12/6/2023 11:34:08 AM 
Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:
So.....3 days in Cleveland will decide this league.....yet again


And many other outcomes will be decided between now and then and we'll continue to discuss them so they at least matter to most people.

I don't get the whole:

Out of conference games don't matter because they don't count toward the MAC.
MAC games don't matter because they don't help get in the NCAA.....

By that line of thinking the NCAA wins don't matter unless you can get six of them. But it does count. It counts as exactly what it is. It's an NCAA win. A MAC win is a MAC win. A MAC championship is a MAC championship. A second place finish, either in the regular season or tournament is a second place finish and better than a third place finish. A non conference win is a non conference win and helps us and the whole league. If the final game in April in the reductionist view is the only one that matters to you then why are you even here? Come back then.
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bobcat 2000
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  Message Not Read  RE: Strength Of MAC Hoops
   Posted: 12/12/2023 4:45:02 PM 
the state of mac basketball is why ou should leave the mac. perhaps the atlantic 10,conference usa, big east or american would be better suited. more tv exposure,better recruiting.and not having to win the conference tourney to get in the ncaa is just what this team could use
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Cellis033
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  Message Not Read  RE: Strength Of MAC Hoops
   Posted: 12/12/2023 7:20:44 PM 
bobcat 2000 wrote:
the state of mac basketball is why ou should leave the mac. perhaps the atlantic 10,conference usa, big east or american would be better suited. more tv exposure,better recruiting.and not having to win the conference tourney to get in the ncaa is just what this team could use


Totally disagree with this take - we would get destroyed / place mid pack / bottom pack in all conferences and would take YEARS to get up to their level. Our arena does compare to similar arenas in those conferences but no upgraded practice facilities of any sort. And with getting into the tournament - if we could compete better / sign up Q1 and Q2 non conference opponents we would have a chance.

Chase
OU Engineering Technology and Management '24
Future Honda of America Engineer
Bringing the noise!

Muck Fiami
Kant read, Kant write
Bowling Green Normie School
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Strength Of MAC Hoops
   Posted: 12/12/2023 8:55:00 PM 
None of those conferences want us. That's the bigger issue.
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: Strength Of MAC Hoops
   Posted: 12/13/2023 12:57:51 PM 
Cellis033 wrote:
bobcat 2000 wrote:
the state of mac basketball is why ou should leave the mac. perhaps the atlantic 10,conference usa, big east or american would be better suited. more tv exposure,better recruiting.and not having to win the conference tourney to get in the ncaa is just what this team could use


Totally disagree with this take - we would get destroyed / place mid pack / bottom pack in all conferences and would take YEARS to get up to their level. Our arena does compare to similar arenas in those conferences but no upgraded practice facilities of any sort. And with getting into the tournament - if we could compete better / sign up Q1 and Q2 non conference opponents we would have a chance.


Bids by conference, recently. Not even mentioning the Big East because that's way out of our league:

2023: American (2), A-10 (1), C-USA (1)
2022: American (2), A-10 (2), C-USA (1)
2021: American (2), A-10 (2), C-USA (1)
2019: American (4), A-10 (2), C-USA (1)

Realignment hasn't made these leagues much more appealing than Ohio's current situation. Here's a wild idea: the MAC actually makes it's own changes and invests more.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Strength Of MAC Hoops
   Posted: 12/13/2023 3:54:10 PM 
bobcat 2000 wrote:
the state of mac basketball is why ou should leave the mac. perhaps the atlantic 10,conference usa, big east or american would be better suited. more tv exposure,better recruiting.and not having to win the conference tourney to get in the ncaa is just what this team could use


Man!!!! I couldn’t agree more!! What do you think it would take for us to join the A-10? or Big East? I’m not sure about C-USA, should we think BIGGER? ACC? SEC? We’d definitely deliver a dynamic TV environment! but you think we need what? $40-80 million dollar renovations to the Convo? Enlarge? Maybe like Dayton, as suites and real hospitality areas. I love this idea! How do we make this happen?

Last Edited: 12/13/2023 3:56:24 PM by BillyTheCat
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OUcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Strength Of MAC Hoops
   Posted: 12/13/2023 7:27:23 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
bobcat 2000 wrote:
the state of mac basketball is why ou should leave the mac. perhaps the atlantic 10,conference usa, big east or american would be better suited. more tv exposure,better recruiting.and not having to win the conference tourney to get in the ncaa is just what this team could use


Man!!!! I couldn’t agree more!! What do you think it would take for us to join the A-10? or Big East? I’m not sure about C-USA, should we think BIGGER? ACC? SEC? We’d definitely deliver a dynamic TV environment! but you think we need what? $40-80 million dollar renovations to the Convo? Enlarge? Maybe like Dayton, as suites and real hospitality areas. I love this idea! How do we make this happen?


All this stuff is ridiculous ... in order to move up, you must first become a BIG FISH in a small pond and then SUSTAIN IT. Then you look to move up.

To move up just to say you're now in a better league with more NCAA bids in no way means you will suddenly be in the top tier of that league.

If the A-10, C-USA or others want Ohio right now, it's because the Bobcats are instant fodder for said league.

Right now Ohio (like Akron, Toledo, Kent - and once Buffalo) seemingly rotate 1-4/5 in the league based on any given year. In that one year (or two years) Ohio may be top tier A-10 level. But is that the case now? Last year? Next year?

Let's be realistic folks. Ohio should be 1-2 in the MAC EVERY YEAR for at least a decade (with an at-large bid!!!) to even think about moving up.

Dominate the MAC first. Then let's talk.

And by dominate I mean a consistent string of 15-3 MAC records or better; 14-4 in a transition year.

Last Edited: 12/13/2023 7:33:42 PM by OUcat
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Andrew Ruck
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  Message Not Read  RE: Strength Of MAC Hoops
   Posted: 12/14/2023 10:10:28 AM 
OUcat wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
bobcat 2000 wrote:
the state of mac basketball is why ou should leave the mac. perhaps the atlantic 10,conference usa, big east or american would be better suited. more tv exposure,better recruiting.and not having to win the conference tourney to get in the ncaa is just what this team could use


Man!!!! I couldn’t agree more!! What do you think it would take for us to join the A-10? or Big East? I’m not sure about C-USA, should we think BIGGER? ACC? SEC? We’d definitely deliver a dynamic TV environment! but you think we need what? $40-80 million dollar renovations to the Convo? Enlarge? Maybe like Dayton, as suites and real hospitality areas. I love this idea! How do we make this happen?


All this stuff is ridiculous ... in order to move up, you must first become a BIG FISH in a small pond and then SUSTAIN IT. Then you look to move up.

To move up just to say you're now in a better league with more NCAA bids in no way means you will suddenly be in the top tier of that league.

If the A-10, C-USA or others want Ohio right now, it's because the Bobcats are instant fodder for said league.

Right now Ohio (like Akron, Toledo, Kent - and once Buffalo) seemingly rotate 1-4/5 in the league based on any given year. In that one year (or two years) Ohio may be top tier A-10 level. But is that the case now? Last year? Next year?

Let's be realistic folks. Ohio should be 1-2 in the MAC EVERY YEAR for at least a decade (with an at-large bid!!!) to even think about moving up.

Dominate the MAC first. Then let's talk.

And by dominate I mean a consistent string of 15-3 MAC records or better; 14-4 in a transition year.


For anyone new or sporadic around here. B2000 pops in every now and then and posts some incoherent ramblings always centered around big time college basketball, most his messages mention Kansas and they often refer to Ohio shooting for the stars. He never really engages in any discussion, just throws things out there and I respectfully question the mental capacity of the poster.

Meanwhile, Billy absolutely loves to mock people and make fun of them. He especially likes taking rare bizarre takes not indicative of the fan base and using them to project on all of us. His favorite method used is heavy sarcasm.

Hopefully that explains this thread to date. I strongly suggest you just ignore both.

Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

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JSF
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  Message Not Read  RE: Strength Of MAC Hoops
   Posted: 12/15/2023 2:21:40 AM 
Endorse the above.

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

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shabamon
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  Message Not Read  RE: Strength Of MAC Hoops
   Posted: 12/15/2023 7:00:03 AM 
I truly believe bobcat 2000 is a troll account one of the regulars created just to have fun. LOVE? Optimist?
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colobobcat66
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  Message Not Read  RE: Strength Of MAC Hoops
   Posted: 12/15/2023 5:35:28 PM 
Victory wrote:
Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:
So.....3 days in Cleveland will decide this league.....yet again


And many other outcomes will be decided between now and then and we'll continue to discuss them so they at least matter to most people.

I don't get the whole:

Out of conference games don't matter because they don't count toward the MAC.
MAC games don't matter because they don't help get in the NCAA.....

By that line of thinking the NCAA wins don't matter unless you can get six of them. But it does count. It counts as exactly what it is. It's an NCAA win. A MAC win is a MAC win. A MAC championship is a MAC championship. A second place finish, either in the regular season or tournament is a second place finish and better than a third place finish. A non conference win is a non conference win and helps us and the whole league. If the final game in April in the reductionist view is the only one that matters to you then why are you even here? Come back then.


I’m with you 100%. It only makes sense since they keep scores and put them in the record books. I don’t get the championship or nothing philosophy.
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