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Topic:  Miami is also having financial problems

Topic:  Miami is also having financial problems
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akroncat
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  Message Not Read  Miami is also having financial problems
   Posted: 4/8/2019 5:22:20 PM 
Article in the Dayton paper today. Here is a small piece about the athletic budget.
Altogether, Miami will reduce spending on the administration by 7.5 percent and by 10 percent in funding for athletics. The school will also reallocate 5 percent of academic funds to “high-impact programs.”
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Recovering Journalist
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  Message Not Read  RE: Miami is also having financial problems
   Posted: 4/9/2019 8:13:10 AM 
This is not very surprising. They face the same vexing problems every MAC school does, but they compounded them with their commitment to hockey, which adds a lot of expense while sapping resources from hoops and football. All that money and effort helped ruin the last decade or so of Miami basketball while driving up costs and delivering one blown national championship game. Did I mention that the MAC doesn't even compete in hockey?
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OUPride
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  Message Not Read  RE: Miami is also having financial problems
   Posted: 4/9/2019 11:05:08 AM 
Me thinks they've maxed out their appeal as a safety school for the Chicago suburbs (currently around 25-30 percent of their incoming freshman classes), and they've never been able to duplicate their success there in other regions around the country. And they're too arrogant to start accepting some Ohio kids that they now reject who would most likely pay full tuition, so the budget crunch is on. Also, for all their arrogance, their fundraising is nothing special--endowment is currently smaller than Ohio's, less than half UC's and a tenth of OSU's.

Their problems may not be as severe as some other schools in the system, but They're still about to find out that they're nothing special. Oh well, they'll still have their yellowed, musty, 35 year old copies of their precious "Public Ivies" book to wave around.
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Miami is also having financial problems
   Posted: 4/10/2019 9:44:12 AM 
OUPride wrote:
Me thinks they've maxed out their appeal as a safety school for the Chicago suburbs (currently around 25-30 percent of their incoming freshman classes), and they've never been able to duplicate their success there in other regions around the country. And they're too arrogant to start accepting some Ohio kids that they now reject who would most likely pay full tuition, so the budget crunch is on. Also, for all their arrogance, their fundraising is nothing special--endowment is currently smaller than Ohio's, less than half UC's and a tenth of OSU's.

Their problems may not be as severe as some other schools in the system, but They're still about to find out that they're nothing special. Oh well, they'll still have their yellowed, musty, 35 year old copies of their precious "Public Ivies" book to wave around.


So this begs a legitimate question. What is it that people hold so dear - their time inside the hallowed walls of OU or their time outside of those walls living in Athens? I would say it's the latter and if so, is it really worth $103,776 to have that experience? Cue the Richard Vedder music.

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Robert Fox
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  Message Not Read  RE: Miami is also having financial problems
   Posted: 4/10/2019 10:13:59 AM 
Alan Swank wrote:


So this begs a legitimate question. What is it that people hold so dear - their time inside the hallowed walls of OU or their time outside of those walls living in Athens? I would say it's the latter and if so, is it really worth $103,776 to have that experience? Cue the Richard Vedder music.



Maybe you should also consider: what value does "time outside of those walls living in Athens" add to the college experience/college education?

Is an online degree worth the same?
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Miami is also having financial problems
   Posted: 4/10/2019 11:24:43 AM 
Robert Fox wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:


So this begs a legitimate question. What is it that people hold so dear - their time inside the hallowed walls of OU or their time outside of those walls living in Athens? I would say it's the latter and if so, is it really worth $103,776 to have that experience? Cue the Richard Vedder music.



Maybe you should also consider: what value does "time outside of those walls living in Athens" add to the college experience/college education?

Is an online degree worth the same?


Not having taken an online class, I don't have an informed opinion about that. Having been involved in education for 40+ years, I"m biased and not a fan of the online model. The human factor in the student teacher relationship is a big one for me. As for the college experience, that's been a big part of the sales pitch from colleges for years and I have to admit, in looking back at my four years at Muskingum I had the time of my life. That said, I place much greater value on the in the classroom experiences (which also ncluded out of classroom academic experiences) than I do on the social aspect of the experience even considering I still have friends from those four years plus the two as a dorm director at OU.

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Robert Fox
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  Message Not Read  RE: Miami is also having financial problems
   Posted: 4/10/2019 11:54:23 AM 
I agree. I'm not a big fan of on-line courses as an alternative to a college degree. My kids have taken a couple of on-line courses to fill a particular need, which makes sense in some cases, but a complete degree on-line? There's something to "the whole college experience" that cannot be duplicated with an exclusive on-line curriculum. Among them is learning to live with others, deal with challenges outside the classroom that you never banked on.

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OUPride
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  Message Not Read  RE: Miami is also having financial problems
   Posted: 4/10/2019 1:32:53 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
OUPride wrote:
Me thinks they've maxed out their appeal as a safety school for the Chicago suburbs (currently around 25-30 percent of their incoming freshman classes), and they've never been able to duplicate their success there in other regions around the country. And they're too arrogant to start accepting some Ohio kids that they now reject who would most likely pay full tuition, so the budget crunch is on. Also, for all their arrogance, their fundraising is nothing special--endowment is currently smaller than Ohio's, less than half UC's and a tenth of OSU's.

Their problems may not be as severe as some other schools in the system, but They're still about to find out that they're nothing special. Oh well, they'll still have their yellowed, musty, 35 year old copies of their precious "Public Ivies" book to wave around.


So this begs a legitimate question. What is it that people hold so dear - their time inside the hallowed walls of OU or their time outside of those walls living in Athens? I would say it's the latter and if so, is it really worth $103,776 to have that experience? Cue the Richard Vedder music.



I certainly think the overall college experience matters, but schools have to be realistic and balance spending with resources. The worst case in Ohio has clearly been Akron where they literally rebuilt the campus and tacked on an expensive new football stadium thinking that "if you build it, they will come." Well, they aren't coming. Miami has also been guilty of this in attempting to match infinitely richer (Big Ten & private) universities in building luxury dorms and student amenities to drive enrollment. I'd have to look closer at their numbers, but I'm sure that's a large contributing factor to their bubble bursting. And the idea (driven no doubt by their legendary hubris and delusional self-image) that they could charge 40% more tuition to an Ohio kid than Ohio State and still compete with OSU is mind boggling.
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IceCat76
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  Message Not Read  RE: Miami is also having financial problems
   Posted: 4/10/2019 2:20:07 PM 
This is only tangentially related. But interesting none the less. Note Number 2 and 9 on this list.


https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/09/these-colleges-have-the-c...
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Miami is also having financial problems
   Posted: 4/10/2019 2:29:14 PM 
IceCat76 wrote:
This is only tangentially related. But interesting none the less. Note Number 2 and 9 on this list.


https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/09/these-colleges-have-the-c...


Interesting. The things you can learn on BA!


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Miami is also having financial problems
   Posted: 4/10/2019 4:26:14 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
IceCat76 wrote:
This is only tangentially related. But interesting none the less. Note Number 2 and 9 on this list.


https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/09/these-colleges-have-the-c...


Interesting. The things you can learn on BA!


Up to date costs for this cming year:

https://www.ohio.edu/financial-aid/cost
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cbus cat fan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Miami is also having financial problems
   Posted: 4/10/2019 5:00:16 PM 
I am usually the glass is more than half full type of guy about things. However, the world of Higher Education is in a world of hurt and they know it, especially in parts of the country like ours where because of the history of the Northwest territories and the building of many college and universities, we have more per capita than just about any other state. Add to this a declining birth rate which shows no signs of improving any time soon, and you have some real problems brewing. These silly brick and mortar projects seem more like a cry for help than a real solution to the problems staring right in front of us.

You might recall that in past posts I mentioned a guy in the neighborhood who is a big pooh bah in the world of Higher Ed and has worked at Columbus State, Ohio State etc. He told me that before the economic downturn of 2008, few respected universities and colleges would give Columbus State the time of day, let alone accept their course work toward the completion of a degree. Now they roll out the red carpet for students to transfer over and willingly accept all of their courses toward the completion of a degree.

As the economy continues to heat up, more students will see that good paying jobs like plumbers and electricians don't necessarily need four year degrees. Honda pilots a program at Columbus State where students go to Columbus State and Honda for two years and eventually become engineers at Honda without the need of a four degree, modeling what is often seen in Japan and Europe. As student debt increases for those students who can't seem to find a high paying job, because they majored in some under or unemployable major, a four year degree will seem like failed promise to them. I think the world of Higher Education and it's cost is unsustainable as we see it now. The smart folks in the Higher Ed world are adjusting accordingly.

Last Edited: 4/10/2019 5:03:50 PM by cbus cat fan

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JSF
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  Message Not Read  RE: Miami is also having financial problems
   Posted: 4/11/2019 12:29:18 PM 
These problems didn't appear overnight. We knew what the demographic trends were. We knew about the growing student loan debt crisis. It's like the housing bubble, except it was a lot more obvious, and the people in charge did nothing to pivot. They got their money and got out.

There's going to be a huge mess coming in higher ed. Longtime institutions are going to fail. I don't dare speculate on who comes out the other end.


"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

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Ohio69
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  Message Not Read  RE: Miami is also having financial problems
   Posted: 4/11/2019 2:35:48 PM 
JSF wrote:
These problems didn't appear overnight. We knew what the demographic trends were. We knew about the growing student loan debt crisis. It's like the housing bubble, except it was a lot more obvious, and the people in charge did nothing to pivot. They got their money and got out.

There's going to be a huge mess coming in higher ed. Longtime institutions are going to fail. I don't dare speculate on who comes out the other end.


It seems to be underway already with small liberal arts type schools closing first.


Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Miami is also having financial problems
   Posted: 4/11/2019 10:27:55 PM 
Ohio69 wrote:
JSF wrote:
These problems didn't appear overnight. We knew what the demographic trends were. We knew about the growing student loan debt crisis. It's like the housing bubble, except it was a lot more obvious, and the people in charge did nothing to pivot. They got their money and got out.

There's going to be a huge mess coming in higher ed. Longtime institutions are going to fail. I don't dare speculate on who comes out the other end.


It seems to be underway already with small liberal arts type schools closing first.



And here is the list:

https://www.educationdive.com/news/how-many-colleges-and-... /
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Broomball @ Midnight!
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  Message Not Read  RE: Miami is also having financial problems
   Posted: 4/12/2019 12:46:32 AM 
Are those REAL higher education institutions? The for-profits leading the way to crush kids into student loan debt can't die fast enough.


You just got lesson number one: don't think; it can only hurt the ball club. - Crash Davis (1988)

BS Ohio '88 - MA Florida '92 - PhD Florida '10

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Ohio69
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  Message Not Read  RE: Miami is also having financial problems
   Posted: 4/12/2019 8:47:40 AM 
Broomball @ Midnight! wrote:
Are those REAL higher education institutions? The for-profits leading the way to crush kids into student loan debt can't die fast enough.


The list they called "liberal arts colleges" seems real enough. Many were very small (500 - 1,000 students). A few listed were 100+ years old.


Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Miami is also having financial problems
   Posted: 4/12/2019 12:35:43 PM 
Here's another interesting link on the number of colleges.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/306880/us-higher-educ... /
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cbus cat fan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Miami is also having financial problems
   Posted: 4/12/2019 2:56:44 PM 
There is a whole host of problems bubbling beneath the surface. Urbana had to be rescued by Franklin a few years ago. It took a fair amount of money out of the Franklin coffers to get them out of that mess. Wittenburg and Ashland had some troubles a few years back and had to have some creative approaches to right the ship.

The other day someone was telling me that even Kenyon and Dennison bring in non-tenured folks to teach for a year or two in order not to increase their costs. However with what they are charging for tuition, something seems amiss. Alan or perhaps someone more in the know than myself can elaborate on this issue. It seems these folks stick a round for a year or two in the hopes that a tenured position opens up, or that they at least get some experience. However with the kind of debt they must have accrued, it sounds like a shaky proposition.
https://employment.denison.edu/postings/2339
http://careers.kenyon.edu/cw/en-us/job/492584/visiting-am...

It would appear that the next economic downturn might put the next Urbana type institution down for the count for good.

Last Edited: 4/12/2019 2:59:17 PM by cbus cat fan

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The Optimist
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  Message Not Read  RE: Miami is also having financial problems
   Posted: 4/12/2019 9:02:08 PM 
JSF wrote:
It's like the housing bubble, except

in this case, our government will have a lot more trouble passing off blame onto the private sector.

The federal government and state government institutions are corrupt and should squarely take the blame for this. They do not care about the people.


I've seen crazier things happen.

Black 41 Flash Reverse

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Mike Johnson
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  Message Not Read  RE: Miami is also having financial problems
   Posted: 4/12/2019 10:11:53 PM 
It's been a few years but I recall a Wall Street Journal story on the rate that colleges were closing. At the time the Journal reported that the annual average was 7 or 8.

At about the same time, I recall that both Capital and Wittenberg were on the ropes. Both have survived.

With changing demographics and steep tuitions and fees, we shouldn't be surprised to see many more such closings.



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.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Miami is also having financial problems
   Posted: 4/15/2019 4:33:37 PM 
If the little schools are doomed, what are we looking at for the mid-size public universities? Consolidation? Ohio State gobbling up the assets of these schools at bargain prices for more feeder satellite schools? Or do they just wither and die? A place like the University of Akron just seems too big to lie fallow.

My great hope is we could use them to create national service academies, places based on the military model for general public service. It's long overdue and probably a better use than churning out general studies grads at $25,000 a year cost.

Last Edited: 4/15/2019 4:36:18 PM by .

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Uncle Wes
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  Message Not Read  RE: Miami is also having financial problems
   Posted: 5/18/2019 9:45:20 AM 
It's supply and demand. The amount of in-state HS graduates has declined 9.5 percent since 2012 and is expected to decline another 12 percent by 2029 (page 44 of the OU budget book). What is also hurting most of the in-state schools is they've changed the state funding formula to reflect course load taught and degree completion. That hurts when the headcounts are jacked up on part timers. Then they are now talking about working in first generation college degree obtainment into the state share of instruction funding formula, a metric Ohio performs well on. Miami is facing on one side cost pressure from its price and on the other side is facing pressure from declining state support. The state support gap between Ohio and Miami is now well over $100 million a year. Take the Miami perspective and say 100 million is trivial but over time it adds up.

https://www.ohio.edu/sites/default/files/sites/finance/bu...


Bobcat Sustainability
2018 Quentin Poling, 7th Round (Miami Dolphins)
2017 Tarell Basham, 3rd Round (Indianapolis Colts)
2017 Blair Brown, 5th Round (Jacksonville Jaguars)
2014 Travis Carrie, 7th Round (Oakland Raiders)
2013 Eric Herman, 7th Round (New York Giants)
2012 LaVon Brazil, 6th Round (Indianapolis Colts)
2010 Taylor Price, 3rd Round (NE Patriots)
2009 Mike Mitchell, 2nd Round (Oakland Raiders)
2008 Landon Cohen, 7th Round (Detroit Lions)

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Uncle Wes
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  Message Not Read  RE: Miami is also having financial problems
   Posted: 5/18/2019 10:39:55 AM 
JSF wrote:

There's going to be a huge mess coming in higher ed. Longtime institutions are going to fail. I don't dare speculate on who comes out the other end.


Ohio at least under the last two presidents has tried to get ahead of the curve by offering a tuition guarantee, merit aid, under representative scholarships, opening up to non-traditional students, satellite campuses ect. It was Glidden who was quoted one time in the local papers that families might think OU was worth more if we charged more like Miami. Tuition during his tenure was up 7 percent a year. Ohio State hot off good years in football has decided to grow its traditional freshman enrollment. They aren't willing to give tuition discounts for those with ACT scores under 30. Ohio starts the in-state discount at ACT 25 and the out-of-state at ACT 22. Miami has the tuition issues and at #96 in the USWNR is about to drop out of the Top 100. Ohio State is beginning to backslide at #56. Ohio doesn't have any real skin in rankings game to lose and more accessible, affordable to the average Ohio graduate.




Bobcat Sustainability
2018 Quentin Poling, 7th Round (Miami Dolphins)
2017 Tarell Basham, 3rd Round (Indianapolis Colts)
2017 Blair Brown, 5th Round (Jacksonville Jaguars)
2014 Travis Carrie, 7th Round (Oakland Raiders)
2013 Eric Herman, 7th Round (New York Giants)
2012 LaVon Brazil, 6th Round (Indianapolis Colts)
2010 Taylor Price, 3rd Round (NE Patriots)
2009 Mike Mitchell, 2nd Round (Oakland Raiders)
2008 Landon Cohen, 7th Round (Detroit Lions)

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Uncle Wes
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  Message Not Read  RE: Miami is also having financial problems
   Posted: 5/18/2019 11:31:33 AM 
Brian Smith wrote:
If the little schools are doomed, what are we looking at for the mid-size public universities? Consolidation? Ohio State gobbling up the assets of these schools at bargain prices for more feeder satellite schools? Or do they just wither and die? A place like the University of Akron just seems too big to lie fallow.

My great hope is we could use them to create national service academies, places based on the military model for general public service. It's long overdue and probably a better use than churning out general studies grads at $25,000 a year cost.


Ohio State has moved away from the access model in the last 20 years and to a more traditional, national selective model. Trying to follow the Miami model, the money model. They aren't interested in serving the state with access which what gobbling up satellite schools would imply. Ohio's always been constrained by the Athens County location but they've added satellite campuses at prime economic engines of the state; Dublin, Cleveland (Cleveland Clinic), Beavercreek (Wright AFB) for medical and technical fields. Buying Youngstown St's campus would have less ROI than buying a tech school in an office park and running a masters of cybersecurity out of it. Deferred campus maintenance is going to catch up with Wright St, Cleveland St, Akron ect and the solution in light of declining enrollments is going to be to knock buildings down without replacing them.

Brian, with the national service academy idea I think we are at the point where with a few exceptions all of the state universities have so many rice bowls that they wouldn't want new universities disrupting them. Then with the free tuition plans many universities already offer it either merit based or income based so to free tuition it would disrupt their cost models. Its the room and board that has become a much larger percentage of the college cost which isn't discounted. Now a program where student loans would be forgiven after 12 years for 3 years national public service post bachelor's could work. Federal government workers already have forgiveness programs but its under limited conditions.


Bobcat Sustainability
2018 Quentin Poling, 7th Round (Miami Dolphins)
2017 Tarell Basham, 3rd Round (Indianapolis Colts)
2017 Blair Brown, 5th Round (Jacksonville Jaguars)
2014 Travis Carrie, 7th Round (Oakland Raiders)
2013 Eric Herman, 7th Round (New York Giants)
2012 LaVon Brazil, 6th Round (Indianapolis Colts)
2010 Taylor Price, 3rd Round (NE Patriots)
2009 Mike Mitchell, 2nd Round (Oakland Raiders)
2008 Landon Cohen, 7th Round (Detroit Lions)

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