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Topic: RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Topic: RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

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Bobcat110
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RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/1/2012 7:16:46 PM

Bobcat8811 wrote:

I merely point out that Cooper sacrificed something to stay at OU, which is something some of you find downright quaint or even foolish.

Why is Cooper turning down offers to transfer schools in violation of NCAA rules a comparable to Grove's move to Illinois? Did Cooper turn down millions to stay in Athens?

Recovering Journalist
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RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/1/2012 7:22:57 PM

Bobcat8811 wrote:

Recovering Journalist wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

The Situation wrote:

. . . .At the very least the dissenters on this board should be given some breathing room when presenting an opinion contrary to majority.

Huzzah!

Oh, please. Look at the title of this thread. You're surprised that it spurred a debate? You should be surprised that it's largely a civil one. I'm just surprised that grown adults could feign shock that someone could make a business decision to coach in a vastly better league, and get a more than 400% raise and a lifetime of financial security to do so.

You can argue the fairness and unfairness of college athletics and finances, but you cannot really make a credible argument that Groce made a poor personal decision. He'd have been a fool to pass up this opportunity.

Oh my goodness, a post spurred an open and passionate debate on an Internet message board? What's next, finding out that tires help an automobile move? Yes, how dare the top poster commit such an act!

Question is, WHY should we be "surprised" that the debate is "civil"? What, presenting an honest, unvarnished, albeit admittedly controversial opinion means the presenter "deserves" to be attacked? You got a lot of nerve there, buddy, suggesting such a thing. Too bad you weren't around for Stalin-era Russia -- you'd have fit in quite well there.

In your OPINION Groce's decision was a slam-dunk. That doesn't make it the right one necessarily. I'm afraid as a "journalist" you've more recovering to do than you may realize.

You've either ignored or misinterpreted pretty much every argument in this thread. I was pointing out the silliness of someone suggesting that "dissenters" weren't given breathing room. My surprise at the civility of people responding to you is based on your penchant for churlishness, hypersensitivity, ranting, and employing more logical fallacies than I saw in logic class my sophomore year. By the way, invoking Stalin is a pretty close cousin of Godwin's Law. There's a reason that even people who agree with you on this thread are distancing themselves. Calm down. Differing opinions aren't personal attacks.

Felix
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RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/1/2012 7:44:53 PM

Upon learning of Groce's departure, my first thought was "What a greedy #^(*^@!." No one can deny that Groce was passionate about his team, and it's doubtful that anybody has ever worked harder than he did as an Ohio coach. Contracted employees leave the university before the end of their appointment every month without a buyout penalty, but almost everybody gives a 30-day notice. The callousness of the business of college athletics and the resulting cynicism of players and fans might stop if prospective coaches would simply say to those courting them "let's slow down a little; my team just got back to campus; they need to have some time to enjoy this." Something about the process is very flawed, but it's ok because everybody is doing it. Of course, all the media leaks and speculation would make a protracted search even more unbearable for players and fans. I'm just rambling; I know there's no decent way to abandon fans and loyal players, but it's ok if you're just following your dream.

Last Edited: 4/1/2012 7:47:37 PM by Felix

Bobcat8811
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RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/1/2012 9:21:44 PM

Quote:

No sir, I merely pointed out the nerve you showed in suggesting someone with a dissenting opinion -- no matter how passionate or controversial -- would be "lucky" to be given civil treatment. Why does ANYONE deserve less than decent discourse regardless of whether or not you agree with him? Therefore, the Stalin-era reference is, no matter how tongue-in-cheek, a rather appropriate one. And sorry, you're close but no cigar with the Godwin's Law ref, which by now has become downright cliche in discussing all things Internet.

"Differing opinions aren't personal attacks" -- on that point, sir, I couldn't agree more. I urge you then to follow your own advice, and -- chill.

Last Edited: 4/1/2012 9:51:27 PM by Bobcat8811

Bobcat8811
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RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/1/2012 9:44:50 PM

Pataskala wrote:

I guess you're entitled to your opinion 8811, but there are very few coaches any more who would be unwilling to take advantage of their success and move on to better-paid pastures. That's life in the "mid-majors." Stevens and Smart turned down the Illinois job, but they're in larger markets with better-paid positions. Stevens is making $750,000 or so coaching near his hometown; Smart is making $1.2 million. Groce will make four times at Illinois what he can make at Ohio; I think few of us would turn down such an opportunity. It's pretty narrow-minded to chastise someone for doing what's best for their family and their career, and for doing what 99% of us would do if we were in the same situation. Remember, as much as we like to glorify coaching, it's still a job. You take opportunities when you get them. Even before Groce left, others here raised the possibility that next year could be less successful -- a tougher schedule; bullseye on the team's backs; injuries. You might not like it that Groce struck while the iron was hot; none of us do. But it's unfair to criticize Groce for doing what he did. Frankly, I hope he succeeds. He's done well for Ohio, but if he looks like a flash-in-the-pan at the next level, there are some who might think his success here was a fluke, which would belittle this year's accomplishments. And by the same token I hope Ohio has a better season next year than this just to show we can do it without him.

See, here's what proves my point against the whole "you always go for the bigger money and if you don't think so you know nothing about the business world" crew. Illinois was offering Smart $2.6 million a year -- that's more than DOUBLE his salary as you quoted! And yet did he go? No. Stevens got offered $21 mil for 8 years, and said no. Again, that's a MASSIVE pay raise he turned down. Still want to lecture me, all you real-world business know-it-alls? Still want to lecture me it's all about the money, and nobody ever turns it down? The fact is, not one but TWO coaches turned down Illinois, despite the fact they were offered WAY bigger money than what Groce is getting.

http://cdn05.duonox.com/forum/butlers-stevens-turns-down-illinois-offer

Meanwhile, here's how badly Illinois wanted Groce:

Quote:

Groce would be the sixth candidate on Thomas' list, following Smart, Alabama's Anthony Grant, Florida State's Leonard Hamilton, Washington's Lorenzo Romar and Stevens.

SIXTH choice? Now, you still want to buy what Groce was selling on his way out? 'Cause if you do, I've got a whole lot of swampland down in Florida I can sell ya. Not to mention a nice big bridge connecting Brooklyn to Manhattan.
Sorry guys, the whole "dream job" story stinks to high heaven. Just like the whole smug attitude here that people ALWAYS take the money and run, and if you disagree, you're some dumb naive rube.

Last Edited: 4/1/2012 9:54:04 PM by Bobcat8811

Bobcat8811
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RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/1/2012 9:46:28 PM

Bobcat110 wrote:

Bobcat8811 wrote:

I merely point out that Cooper sacrificed something to stay at OU, which is something some of you find downright quaint or even foolish.

Why is Cooper turning down offers to transfer schools in violation of NCAA rules a comparable to Grove's move to Illinois? Did Cooper turn down millions to stay in Athens?

Not immediately, but maybe down the line, as a player risks diminishing his draft status by sticking with the "smaller" program. I'm amazed at the double standard here of judgment -- one poster smugly suggested that Cooper would've sat the bench anyway at Tennessee or Baylor, so what was he giving up? As if you KNOW he would, had he gone there? It's amazing some of the twists you're turning here to build up Groce's position, and tear down Cooper's.

And by the way, Cooper also turned down a legitimate offer to play at DePaul -- you're going to tell me that's not a bump up?

If Groce had gotten the call from Duke or Georgetown, I'd probably be applauding the move. Instead he's going to Illinois, which is such a "dream job" that two other coaches turned it down already -- the suggestion one poster made that Smart is already making bigger bucks than Groce is humorous, as Smart turned down WAY bigger money than Groce got offered. Not only that, but Smart would've gone to the Big 10, which is supposedly such a step up in prestige. No, the fact is, Illinois isn't Ohio State or Indiana, and isn't all that big a step up from the MAC.

Last Edited: 4/1/2012 9:50:06 PM by Bobcat8811

OhioCatFan
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RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/1/2012 9:50:10 PM

Bobcat8811 wrote:

. . . .lot of swampland down in Florida I can sell ya. Not to mention a nice big bridge connecting Brooklyn to Manhattan. Sorry guys, the whole "dream job" story stinks to high heaven. Just like the whole smug attitude here that people ALWAYS take the money and run, and if you disagree, you're some dumb naive rube.

It is this smug attitude that irks me the most in terms of the issues we are discussing. Thanks for pointing it out so succinctly.

Last Edited: 4/1/2012 9:53:51 PM by OhioCatFan

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JSF
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RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/1/2012 10:53:41 PM

OK, 8811, let's start over. I don't agree with your analogy. I just don't see the parallels. Nobody was hurt in this deal and I don't think many here are rationalizing. But I don't want to belabor the point.

From my side of things, I and a lot of others knew from Day 1 Groce would not be here long one way or the other. He did exactly what I thought he would do. And, in his position, I would probably do the same thing. I understand the loyalty argument, but I think his first loyalty is to his family... and this move is really good for his family. I don't see it as disrespect- then again, I don't worry about "respect" much. If someone wants to be here, great. If not, we'll find someone else. That's how I see it.

I also disagree about the once in a lifetime opportunity you see. We very well could be better than last year and advance further in the tournament... but we could also very easily miss the postseason entirely. We're on a knife's edge and could fall either way. That's a great deal of uncertainty. Illinois, on the other hand, is much more of a sure bet. Here's where we disagree again: I think it's a much better job than you do. With the right man helming the program, the Illini can be perennial title contenders.

It's really easy for us to sit here and tell people what they should do with our lives. Myself, I have no problems with what happened, wish Groce well, and hope he succeeds. I think that reflects well on Ohio. But maybe you shouldn't breathe fire at those of us who aren't bitter.

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

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Jeff McKinney
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RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/1/2012 10:59:05 PM

JSF wrote:

+1. Excellent!

Mr. Mo Jo Risin
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RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/2/2012 12:35:43 AM

Bobcat8811 wrote:

Bobcat110 wrote:

Bobcat8811 wrote:

I merely point out that Cooper sacrificed something to stay at OU, which is something some of you find downright quaint or even foolish.

Why is Cooper turning down offers to transfer schools in violation of NCAA rules a comparable to Grove's move to Illinois? Did Cooper turn down millions to stay in Athens?

You are probably right about the prestige and "dream job" issue. However, before Weber was even fired, an OSU board was discussing the potential Illinois opening. One poster, known to be close to the program, said that Matta and his staff have long held the Illinois job in very high regard.

My guess is, despite its overall shortcomings, the job is very prestigious to Groce personally.

bostonbobcat
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RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/2/2012 1:24:00 AM

Why didn't Smart or Stevens jump, because they have their eyes set on bigger things.

Stevens, miss the postseason a couple more years and he might look back wishing he had taken that Illinois job or one of the other high-profile jobs he was linked to leading Butler to the title game in consecutive years.

Smart didn't see the move from VCU to Illinois as being a big enough upgrade, might be waiting to see how the conference realignment shakes out, or a job that in his mind is a top 10 job where he thinks he's at job No. 11.

Groce struck as soon as the iron was hot, not taking a chance on missing the chance to cash in. To those that feel they wouldn't want the 400% salary increase for pretty much the same job, to each their own.

And enough talk about Groce being the sixth candidate. Grant, Leonard and Romar were attempts to appease the trustees that were holding out for a coach that simply wasn't white. They never had a chance at any of those three.

Deciduous Forest Cat
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RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/2/2012 5:18:22 PM

Remember that old Baco's commercial? The one where it's just the woman eating the salad, taking big bites and going on and on about how good the salad is... then someone adds Baco's to the salad and she takes another bite, and simply says "even better".

$1.2 million = Baco's.

carltonbanks
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RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/3/2012 11:31:38 AM

how dare groce leave ou for illinois!!!! (sarcasm)....ppl we all love OU but come on!!!!! this schools is a stepping stone school, not a big time one....nobodys dream job growing up is coacing a mid major team....this could be the most opportune time for groce to leave , he may never be hotter...and who ever the dip^%%& who said he could take us to the final 4 next year??? hahaha ur an idiot.

GET OVER IT PEOPLE, AFTER ALL OU IS A STEPPING STONE MUCH LIKE EVERY OTHER MIDMAJOR!!!!!!!

BE THANKFUL FOR WHAT HE DID TO THIS UNIVERSITY AND QUIT COMPLAINING CUZ HE TOOK A BETTER JOB OFFER!!!!!

sometimies ppl on here make me ashamed to be a part of OU bc they are so close minded

go cats

Last Edited: 4/3/2012 1:00:49 PM by Jeff McKinney

OhioCatFan
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RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/3/2012 11:35:37 AM

Tell that to Jim Christian at the press conference at 2:00. I think he's got other ideas. Final Four in 2013, Baby!

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/3/2012 12:02:20 PM

carltonbanks wrote:

how dare groce leave ou for illinois!!!! (sarcasm)....ppl we all love OU but come on!!!!! this schools is a stepping stone school, not a big time one....nobodys dream job growing up is coacing a mid major team....this could be the most opportune time for groce to leave , he may never be hotter...and who ever the dipshit who said he could take us to the final 4 next year??? hahaha ur an idiot.

GET OVER IT PEOPLE, AFTER ALL OU IS A STEPPING STONE MUCH LIKE EVERY OTHER MIDMAJOR!!!!!!!

BE THANKFUL FOR WHAT HE DID TO THIS UNIVERSITY AND QUIT COMPLAINING CUZ HE TOOK A BETTER JOB OFFER!!!!!

sometimies ppl on here make me ashamed to be a part of OU bc they are so close minded

go cats

If you're going to put us second rank..or lower...go root for columbus. Your attitude is inappropriate and not needed here.

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Doc Bobcat
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RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/3/2012 2:04:28 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

carltonbanks wrote:

how dare groce leave ou for illinois!!!! (sarcasm)....ppl we all love OU but come on!!!!! this schools is a stepping stone school, not a big time one....nobodys dream job growing up is coacing a mid major team....this could be the most opportune time for groce to leave , he may never be hotter...and who ever the dipshit who said he could take us to the final 4 next year??? hahaha ur an idiot.

GET OVER IT PEOPLE, AFTER ALL OU IS A STEPPING STONE MUCH LIKE EVERY OTHER MIDMAJOR!!!!!!!

BE THANKFUL FOR WHAT HE DID TO THIS UNIVERSITY AND QUIT COMPLAINING CUZ HE TOOK A BETTER JOB OFFER!!!!!

sometimies ppl on here make me ashamed to be a part of OU bc they are so close minded

go cats

If you're going to put us second rank..or lower...go root for columbus. Your attitude is inappropriate and not needed here.

Monroe has spoken dude......you need to GTFO.

roar-room
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RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/3/2012 2:31:11 PM

rofl

Cat4ever
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RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/3/2012 2:58:19 PM

8811, you have made some valid points -- and even if your opinions aren't those of others, that's what CyberGossipLand is all about: blowhardery. Yours, mine, and the rest of the blowhards.

But this post was framed up as an "open 'letter'" (with a not very nice salutation) ... all written by someone who chooses to keep his/her identity "private."

So my question to you, 8811, is this: Would you have chosen the same language were you addressing Coach Groce face to face ... or even if you didn't operate in presumed anonymity?

The only thing that is a fact is that nothing is a fact.
If this statement is true, it is also false.
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bn9
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RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/3/2012 4:56:57 PM

I did not read all of the inane ramblings of this thread, so excuse me if this has already been mentioned. I did not get the move until I watched his press conference. He said Champaign is 107 miles from his parent's house. He just took a job in the Big 10,12.14 or whatever it is where he can quintuple his salary and move closer to his family. I get it. Plus, now that we have Coach Christian, I say good luck Mr. Groce, thanks for the memories, if we meet on the court, we will beat your ___. Good day.

perimeterpost
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RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/3/2012 8:59:14 PM

carltonbanks wrote:

thank you for saying what needed to be said. People who root for a school's athletic team simply because they have some connection to, or affinity for, that school need to WAKE THE HELL UP!!- why would you root for a team thats not the bestest when there is another more awesomer, coolest, popularer, bro-tastic ABSOLUTE COOLEST team you can root for instead?!? Carltonbanks doesn't let his low self esteem get in the way of jumping on the bandwagon of a school he didn't attend because he wants other people to think he's cool by proxy, and we're just too stupider to know better.

I MEAN GOSH PEOPLE, DERR! UGHH. GET OVER YOURSELVES BLARRAAHAAGAHAAGGG!!!!1!

MY STATE. MY TEAM.

bostonbobcat
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RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/3/2012 9:27:22 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

carltonbanks wrote:

how dare groce leave ou for illinois!!!! (sarcasm)....ppl we all love OU but come on!!!!! this schools is a stepping stone school, not a big time one....nobodys dream job growing up is coacing a mid major team....this could be the most opportune time for groce to leave , he may never be hotter...and who ever the dipshit who said he could take us to the final 4 next year??? hahaha ur an idiot.

GET OVER IT PEOPLE, AFTER ALL OU IS A STEPPING STONE MUCH LIKE EVERY OTHER MIDMAJOR!!!!!!!

BE THANKFUL FOR WHAT HE DID TO THIS UNIVERSITY AND QUIT COMPLAINING CUZ HE TOOK A BETTER JOB OFFER!!!!!

sometimies ppl on here make me ashamed to be a part of OU bc they are so close minded

go cats

If you're going to put us second rank..or lower...go root for columbus. Your attitude is inappropriate and not needed here.

Yes, when we are offering coaches 250-450k/year, we are a potential stepping stone.

I want the best for the university like just about everybody here, but take off the nice-looking, green-shaded glasses once in a while.

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