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Topic: RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Topic: RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

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giacomo
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Member Since: 11/20/2007
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RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/1/2012 7:52:04 AM

110, good point about us not even having a chance at a sweet 16 if we lose to Akron. Very true and the very reason he had to leave. The coaching profession is all about who the hot guy is, not necessarily who the best coach is at the moment when the hiring takes place. 8811 makes some good points, but that's what it comes down to. Like it or not, there is a pecking order and we are somewhere down the list. Our program would revert to the MAC mean at some point and then we would fire him. Good opportunity he had to take. Good luck.

Jerry86
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RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/1/2012 8:26:23 AM

Bobcat8811 wrote:

[And let me ask all those who disagree with me one question: if you were DJ Cooper, how would you feel right now? Would you not feel at least a little angry and betrayed? You could've bolted for the bigger school, but you stayed at OU out of a sense of loyalty and fair play. And again, with the ENTIRE team returning for one last shot at glory, wouldn't you expect at LEAST the same from your coach? Is one more year really too much to ask? That's why I just don't get the attitudes of some people towards Groce.

Do you have a job? Have you ever had a boss who moved on? Promoted within the same company or who leaves for another opportunity? It happens every day! Does the boss worry about how well his "team" worked together under him and whether they'll not achieve in the future? No, because he trusts his "team" and knows they're professionals. He knows they have the skills to get the job done. Does the boss not feel another another guy can come in and do as well with that "team" of employees? Heck no, he knows he's replaceable.

Here's a hint. If the proverbial bus hits anybody out there in a position of authority the world doesn't end. Life goes on. Projects in a corporation go forward. A basketball team also moves on.

OhioCatFan
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Location: Athens, OH
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RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/1/2012 8:33:51 AM

Groce didn't leave a professional team behind him but a group of young amateur college basketball players. The corporate analogy doesn't work for me.

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

Bobcat110
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RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/1/2012 9:33:58 AM

Bobcat8811 wrote:

And for those of you who still care to believe Groce's claim that Illinois was his "once-in-a-lifetime jump-at-the-chance dream job," I leave you with this little bit of reading:

http://www.therepublic.com/view/stor...OLUMN_7630419/

Quote:

David Haugh: Illinois should know its place as coaches say no

When hotshot mid-major coaches Shaka Smart and Brad Stevens turned down Illinois, it provided a stark reminder of how good the job in Champaign is - or isn't - in today's college basketball world.

But perhaps the most sobering measure of the position's diminished stature came in the last 48 hours as Ohio coach John Groce exercised every ounce of leverage Illinois delivered at his doorstep.

When a 40-year-old Mid-American Conference coach making $307,985 hedges at taking over a once-proud Big Ten program and won't agree to do so until his considerable demands are met, it hardly labels Illinois an elite job.

If people still were wondering if Illinois was a destination job, now they know. Coaches don't tiptoe to destination jobs. They run. Their hearts set the pace for their heads. They make plans, not conditions.

The Illinois plane had filed a flight plan at noon Tuesday scheduled to go to Athens, Ohio, but never left the runway after the trip was canceled because the tenor of negotiations changed, according to two sources with knowledge of the talks. Somewhere, Michael McCaskey hated being reminded of Dave McGinnis again.

Groce's 11th-hour power play says Illinois athletic director Mike Thomas got what he deserved in a clumsy search that began nearly three weeks ago. It underscores how badly Thomas needed Groce to say yes - a fact apparently not lost on Groce, who already displayed a knack for making shrewd decisions late in the game.

Maybe he wasn't running to Illinois because he knew what he had to leave behind? Maybe he needed the extra conditions met to make it acceptable in his mind to take his dream job and forgo one more attempt at a run next year with Offutt, Baltic, Cooper and the others.

crackerbaby00
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Member Since: 3/8/2007
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RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/1/2012 10:13:46 AM

Felix wrote:

UpSan Bobcat wrote:

I am grateful John Groce did what he did for four years and leaves our program in excellent shape. I have no reason to be mad at him.

Given our APR problem, to say he left the program in excellent shape might not be true. It's not a problem he inherited, but its a problem he created while learning to be a head coach.

Do we still have a a problem? We initially got a commitment from Greene before Goard left the program, so I was assuming that we were getting the scholarship back this year.....can anyone confirm this?

Eagle66
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RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/1/2012 11:14:15 AM

crackerbaby00 wrote:

Felix wrote:

UpSan Bobcat wrote:

I am grateful John Groce did what he did for four years and leaves our program in excellent shape. I have no reason to be mad at him.

Given our APR problem, to say he left the program in excellent shape might not be true. It's not a problem he inherited, but its a problem he created while learning to be a head coach.

Per Arkley's twitter a few days ago...

29 Mar Jason Arkley‏@JArkley_ACMOhio

BobcatSports
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RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/1/2012 11:59:13 AM

Anorris you hit the nail on the head. Even this year we needed a win at Miami in the final regular season game of the year to get the 3rd seed and a bye into Cleveland. A loss in Oxford and we were facing having to play and win in Athens on Monday, play and win in Cleveland on Wednesday, play and win in Cleveland on Thursday, play and win in Cleveland on Friday and yes, play and win in Cleveland on Saturday. Try running that gauntlet.

I'm amused at some of the rancor directed at Groce's leaving on this board. Are thest not some of the same posters that just a few short weeks/months ago were railing at the WORST 12-2 team ever, or the WORST 16-3 team ever, that had hoped Groce missed the team bus or better yet got run over by the team bus back from the Toledo/Eastern Michigan debacles? That we had a coach who had NO clue how to beat a zone much less beat UNC.

Sorry guys, I'm in the camp that thinks Groce got the Godfather in this one. An "offer he couldn't refuse". I also don't get this whole "loyalty" angle either. Groce came here from OSU what 4 years ago? He wasn't born in Athens. His kids didn't graduate from Athens public schools. He didn't star or have his jersey hanging from the Convo rafters. Was he "disloyal" for leaving Matta? Should he have stayed with Matta "forever" out of "loyalty" with the expectation that the OSU job would be his sometime IF he continued to be the good servent and stay "loyal". That's what Guthrie did at UNC with Dean Smith didn't he? It wasn't supposedly about money at OSU, hasn't it been reported he took a pay CUT to take the OHIO job? It makes about as much sense as this wailing and gnashing going on, in this most scared of seasons, comparing Groce to Judas.

Had Groce stayed and his fortunes turned sour and say we got knocked out in Rd1 in Cleveland next year and strung together some 20+ season losses, would you same "loyalists" be clamoring to give Groce a big raise and a nice contract extension because he's been "loyal"? Yea, thought so.

I'm certain Groce had ZERO expectation on that Saturday in Oxford a month ago that his life was about to be turned upside down. A month of exhilirating, heart stopping basketball victories were parlayed into what was probably a truly once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for Groce. I've been in business for over 40 years. Through-out that time I have had a good many employees come to me and explaining that were leaving for better opportunity be if for money or for the chance at working for a bigger company with the possiblility of more career challenges, etc. In each instance I early on resigned myself that the professional thing to do was to wish said employee well and part company.

Some of these situations have worked out well for said employee. Some of them haven't. I learned also early on another Godfatherism. It's "not personal, just business". Groce made a "business" decision in taking the Illini job. Life's too short, I wish him well.

Go Bobcats!!!!!!

crackerbaby00
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RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/1/2012 12:03:47 PM

Eagle66 wrote:

crackerbaby00 wrote:

Felix wrote:

UpSan Bobcat wrote:

I am grateful John Groce did what he did for four years and leaves our program in excellent shape. I have no reason to be mad at him.

Given our APR problem, to say he left the program in excellent shape might not be true. It's not a problem he inherited, but its a problem he created while learning to be a head coach.

Per Arkley's twitter a few days ago...

29 Mar Jason Arkley‏@JArkley_ACMOhio

Thanks!

Felix
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RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/1/2012 12:17:07 PM

crackerbaby00 wrote:

Eagle66 wrote:

crackerbaby00 wrote:

Felix wrote:

UpSan Bobcat wrote:

I am grateful John Groce did what he did for four years and leaves our program in excellent shape. I have no reason to be mad at him.

Given our APR problem, to say he left the program in excellent shape might not be true. It's not a problem he inherited, but its a problem he created while learning to be a head coach.

Per Arkley's twitter a few days ago...

29 Mar Jason Arkley‏@JArkley_ACMOhio

Thanks!

I sure hope Arkley is right! How much breathing room do we have?

UpSan Bobcat
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RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/1/2012 12:51:57 PM

crackerbaby00 wrote:

Felix wrote:

UpSan Bobcat wrote:

I am grateful John Groce did what he did for four years and leaves our program in excellent shape. I have no reason to be mad at him.

Given our APR problem, to say he left the program in excellent shape might not be true. It's not a problem he inherited, but its a problem he created while learning to be a head coach.

Right, from everything I've heard, all current players are soundly in good academic standing. This shouldn't be an issue. And I'm not going to hold that against Groce that he took a chance on a player, and ultimately, I think that player contributed to quite a bit of good for the program.

I don't think there's any denying that Ohio is in far better shape than when Groce got here. He turned Ohio into a team that was among the top half in the MAC on a general basis to one that is the best.

If Groce had left after next season, with Cooper, Offutt, Baltic and Keely graduating, then people would say he's getting out because he didn't have talent coming back.

And just because Groce left Ohio doesn't mean he didn't love Athens like he said. He never said he loved it so much he wanted to stay there forever. I love the current city I live in, and I'd miss it if I move, but certainly I would move if the right situation came up. In fact, I'd expect to eventually. I think we all expected Groce would move on and he has. I really don't get the anger at him. Sure, if he came here in screwed things up, or even if things were good, but he left when they were turning bad. But he came to Ohio and built something great and left it for someone else to continue. I'm grateful.

Last Edited: 4/1/2012 12:54:29 PM by UpSan Bobcat

Diamond Cat
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RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/1/2012 12:52:24 PM

Man…..some of you are so venomous when you see something that doesn’t fit in your cookie cutter mindset. Calm down.

I see a couple of people post on here and they get pounced on seconds after the electronic ink dries.

Put me down with I don't buy the corporate analogy thing either.

I’ll make it easier for you again. I agree more with 8811 than less. As I have said in many of my posts, this is a slap in the face to my OHIO. See ya Groce. It will forever stick in my mind his fake "hold back tears" and "great for the community" postgame after Michigan and then gone less than two weeks later. Please.

Now let’s get Boals in here and have a shot at keeping one of our own a little longer than someone who never had intentions of staying.

Also, Illinois ain’t what a couple of you think they are in the Joke 10. They will be looking up at 4-5 other schools for a long time to come. Top 15-20-30 job? Not to me.

What WE did this year is where I think WE should be more often than not. The 60’s, 70’s and 80’s are gone and college ball is different from Hoops to Football (except in the minds of Digger, Vitale, Bilas, etc.). Why are some excepting this is the “golden age” of OHIO Sports and not saying this is the standard?

It’s probably Carbone’s fault that Groce left anyway.

UpSan Bobcat
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RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/1/2012 12:59:21 PM

Diamond Cat wrote:

It will forever stick in my mind his fake "hold back tears" and "great for the community" postgame after Michigan and then gone less than two weeks later. Please.

Now let’s get Boals in here and have a shot at keeping one of our own a little longer than someone who never had intentions of staying.

I kind of made this point right before you posted, but just because he left in no way means he didn't actually men what he said about Ohio, Athens and the community. In fact, I'm certain he did. I loved Athens too, but I left.

And you really think Boals is going to stick around any longer? I don't think just because he is an Ohio grad, he is any more likely to stay. If gets the job and has as much success, I'd be surprised if he doesn't move on to something better just as quickly. It's part of being a mid-major. It's rare to keep a truly great coach for very long.

BobcatSports
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RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/1/2012 1:08:33 PM

Last time I checked the Convo address isn't 1 Loyalty Lane, Athens, Ohio. If it were, wouldn't "Loyal" Larry Hunter still be coach? It works both ways Sportsfans.

bobcat28
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RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/1/2012 1:31:12 PM

Larry Hunter would still be coaching in Athens if he had the choice.

Jerry86
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RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/1/2012 1:40:01 PM

OhioCatFan wrote:

Groce didn't leave a professional team behind him but a group of young amateur college basketball players. The corporate analogy doesn't work for me.

Maybe you never worked in a corporate environment? As a 20something we had bosses leave and move on. These kids are 19-22 years old. We weren't traumatized when a boss left. We knew what our repsective jobs were just as the guys on the team do. They're not 9 year olds playing unorganized pee wee basketball.

It is what it is. No reason a new coach can't come in and possible achieve more than Groce would have.

I think he left for the $$. I wish him well. That said I think he'll not achieve the level of success he needs to at Illinois to keep that job long term. More pressure there and alums will call for a coaches head the minute they feel they're being shortchanged as far as post season bids go. And the big guys can toss around millions of $ to pay a guy to go away.

Jerry86
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RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/1/2012 1:51:26 PM

bobcat28 wrote:

Larry Hunter would still be coaching in Athens if he had the choice.

And both Hunter and O'Shea had records, both overall and in the MAC, that were as good as Groce.

One difference is Groce got to 2 NCAA's in 3 years. That's why he's on to more $$ and a bigger name. If the Akron game goes the other way he's here in Athens next year.

Those who have stated Hunter was "mediocre" and that O'Shea left the program in a shambles apparently have a short memory. We had a good groups of kids to build around when Groce arrived.

Groce is more flamboyant and animated on the sidelines compared to the other two. His MAC record is actually worst percentage wise of the 3.

Jerry86
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RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/1/2012 1:55:28 PM

Diamond Cat wrote:

Put me down with I don't buy the corporate analogy thing either.

Do you have any idea how many coaches move on each year? Basketball? Football? Kids adjust.

Moving on is part of the game. Coaches are not the Jim Snyder type anymore just as corporate loyalty is a thing of the past. People jump around, both professionally and in the coaching profession. These players are young and although they may have had some emotions a few days ago they'll be ready to get back to the grind when a new coach comes on board.

.
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RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/1/2012 2:04:10 PM

If Groce had lost 29 games none of us would think twice about calling for him to get canned and displace his family. Cut the loyalty crap.

Money is the only valid expression of loyalty in college and professional sports.

As Don Draper once eloquently said, "That's what the money is for!"

The Situation
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RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/1/2012 2:08:45 PM

Save the Groce loyalty debate for old men to discuss over early morning coffee at McDonald's. At the very least he had a legal obligation to coach this team next year.

I'm not a finance guy, so it's difficult for me to fully construct a corporate analogy. But, what if you signed a 2 year contract with a cell phone provider, the one YOU chose. And then one day, out of the blue, they decided to stop providing you service, they just packed up and left. Here's the kicker, the reason the operation folded is because the provider's CEO left to follow his dreams, be closer to his family, and make more money. YOU are left scrambling to find a new cell phone provider, because YOU find it necessary to have one.

Do you feel all warm inside because CEO is now following his dreams? Do you shrug it off that he/she completely disrespected you and the commitment he/she made to provide you service? I have a hard time believing the same posters that support Groce's departure would turn a blind eye to the cell phone provider that screwed them over.

At the very least the dissenters on this board should be given some breathing room when presenting an opinion contrary to majority.

OhioCatFan
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RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/1/2012 2:21:09 PM

The Situation wrote:

. . . .At the very least the dissenters on this board should be given some breathing room when presenting an opinion contrary to majority.

Huzzah!

.
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RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/1/2012 2:21:14 PM

The Situation wrote:

No. Ohio is the small cell phone company. Its CEO just left to go to run AT&T. Instead of whining and crying, Ohio hires a new CEO and keeps delivering cell phone service.

A-townBound
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RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/1/2012 2:23:46 PM

When I think about Groce going to Illinois, I can't help but think of the Billy Gillispie/UK situation.

I hope that Groce invests his new found wealth wisely, because if he does not see quick success (first three years) I don't think he'll see the end of his 5 year contract.

If he gets let go from Illinois, sure he'll find another coaching opportunity but where? He has high expectations there and for his sake hopefully he can live up.

Go Bobcats!

Bleed Green and GO OHIO!!

Jeff McKinney
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RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/1/2012 2:26:24 PM

What some of you are overlooking is the fickleness of college fan bases. The same people singing the praises of Groce's performance in the post season might be the first to turn on him and demand his ouster if next season was underachieving. People have to take the opportunities to move up when they have it. Coaches leave before their contracts expire all the time. I haven't heard of any plans by Ohio Athletics to take legal action against Groce for moving to Illinois.

.
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RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/1/2012 2:30:51 PM

This team won 29 games and the chat room for every game sounded like Ohio was NIU. Imagine if next year's team slightly underachieved under Groce?

OUVan
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RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/1/2012 2:33:48 PM

Bobcat8811 wrote:

Recovering Journalist wrote:

So, if you were making $30k a year, and someone offered you more than $120k a year to do essentially the same job in a place where you'd get more recognition and have more opportunity to build your career faster, you'd be "loyal" and turn it down? OK, but you can't be surprised that most people wouldn't.

Tell that to DJ Cooper, who hung with Ohio over Tennessee or Baylor. Or are you telling me he'd get more recognition in Athens? And REALLY tell me when your average coach preaches "sacrifice" and "loyalty" to all their players, but refuse to hold themselves to the same standard. Groce certainly isn't the first coach to do it, but it doesn't making it any lamer.

But let me give you a real-world example of why sometimes you see past the immediate bucks for the bigger picture. I have a bud who took a job at a small, "hot shop" ad agency for maybe $40K a year -- he got offered a job a year later at a bigger firm for double the money. Far from hopping to their offer, he stayed, for less money -- and for the chance of making a name for himself creatively (and knowing that if he did, he'd be a bigger deal down the line). And if he built up his book, and performed, there'd be another opportunity down the line for more money at a bigger place. Not to mention the prestige and awards he'd win at the smaller shop, where he'd be freer creatively. It may shock you, but it does happen, even in the mundane "real" world of business. Sometimes people see the forest over just the trees.

DJ Cooper, as well as any intelligent basketball player, knows the risk when he signs on with a program like ours. He, unlike you, has wished John Groce nothing but the best. It's the business. And your analogy is nice an all if John Groce wanted to stay in that quaint little shop. But you can count the number of college basketball coaches on one had that aspire for a situation like Athens and don't want to go any further. And you'll have to get used to it. Hopefully in four years we'll have to read another hold-my-breath-until-I-turn-blue diatribe from someone who doesn't understand the business and wants to equate it to an ad agency.

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