BobcatAttack.com - For Fans of Ohio University Sports

Welcome Guest!
Create an Account

site search

where to watch

about us

advertise with us

help

BobcatAttack.com Message Board

Ohio Basketball

Topic: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Topic: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Author

Message

Bobcat8811
General User

Member Since: 3/31/2012
Post Count: 32

Status: Offline

Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 3/31/2012 9:39:45 PM

Hi all and greetings -- I've been reading a lot of posts here. All I can say is -- you've been WAY too easy on our newly departed coach, IMHO.

It would be one thing if the team were all graduating, but with the full squad including DJ returning, Groce had a REAL chance to aim high, and do something magnificent: take a MAC team to the Final Four. Instead, he chose to go to a big school for big money, and become as predictable as predictable can be.

John could've stayed for 1 more year, for the "mere" $355K he was making -- which in Athens, lets you live like a sultan. It's also documented that the university would've ponied up more: he could've probably netted an even half mil, making him the Bill Gates of the Hocking Valley. Yeah, I know, you'll make more at the new place, but you couldn't hang another year for the chance to do something truly memorable?

These coaches preach loyalty, loyalty, loyalty -- then jump ship at the first better offer. DJ had the chance to go to the bigger school, and instead kept his promise to hang with Ohio. How pathetic that the player sets the example the coach won't keep himself. If he goes too, can you blame him? Of course not, and you can thank Mr. Groce for burning down the city on his way out of town.

About that "chance of a lifetime" John -- you're going to Illinois, not Duke or Georgetown. Good luck with that megalomaniac of an AD, as you blend in with the likes of Northwestern and Minnesota. Good luck competing with the Ohio States and Indianas for recruits -- I think you'll find it a bit different than dueling with Akron and Ball State for prospects. And that vaunted scheme you run? Good luck finding the same freedom to run it unless you win BIG your first couple of years.

And look -- I'm all for bettering yourself and making more money at the bigger company. That's the American way. I'm not trying to play the spurned alum either. I'm talking about hanging one lousy more year, to chase greatness -- THEN go wherever you please. I guarantee you, John, hit another Sweet 16 or beyond, and you'll have your pick of schools a LOT better than Illinois. Or don't you have the confidence you can do it?

So spare me the tearful faces, the "oh it's so special what we have in Athens" speeches -- just go off and be like every other coach who ever bagged a carpet. Just don't expect some of us to hug you on the way out...

Anyway, thanks for tolerating the rant, and... GO BOBCATS! No matter who's running the ship next year.

Last Edited: 3/31/2012 9:44:16 PM by Bobcat8811

ytownbobcat
General User

Member Since: 8/7/2006
Post Count: 1,253

Status: Offline

RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 3/31/2012 9:54:25 PM

no way

ts1227
General User

Member Since: 2/28/2006
Location: Tallmadge, OH
Post Count: 853

Status: Offline

RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 3/31/2012 10:08:12 PM

Bobcat8811 wrote:

These coaches preach loyalty, loyalty, loyalty -- then jump ship at the first better offer. DJ had the chance to go to the bigger school, and instead kept his promise to hang with Ohio. How pathetic that the player sets the example the coach won't keep himself. If he goes too, can you blame him? Of course not, and you can thank Mr. Groce for burning down the city on his way out of town.

...

So spare me the tearful faces, the "oh it's so special what we have in Athens" speeches -- just go off and be like every other coach who ever bagged a carpet. Just don't expect some of us to hug you on the way out...

There's loyalty, and then there's extreme loyalty to the point where it's a fatal character flaw, which is something that seems to be popular of older men in this area/region of the country in particular, for some reason. He was loyal, but you can't be so loyal that you screw yourself over just to claim that you're a good guy (that's crap that my father pulls, not smart guys like Groce). When the iron's hot, you have to strike. We'd have been really good next year, but one choke job against anyone in the 2013 MAC Tournament and no one's paying him $1.4M/yr after next season.

Last Edited: 3/31/2012 10:09:26 PM by ts1227

OhioCatFan
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 14,016

Status: Offline

RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 3/31/2012 10:19:59 PM

ts1227 wrote:

. . . There's loyalty, and then there's extreme loyalty to the point where it's a fatal character flaw, which is something that seems to be popular of older men in this area/region of the country in particular, for some reason. . . .

Is this ageist? regionalist? Don't know, but I don't like. Can't we get away from trying to stereotype folks all the time?

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

perimeterpost
General User

Member Since: 7/6/2010
Post Count: 3,165

Status: Offline

RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 3/31/2012 10:21:33 PM

Sounds like you got a lot of pent up aggression and are having trouble letting go, maybe next time you're doing Karaoke you can dedicate this one to Coach Groce and you'll feel better-

Someone Like You lyrics
Songwriters: Adele Laurie Blue Adkins;Daniel Dodd Wilson

I heard that you're settled down
That you found a girl and you're married now
I heard that your dreams came true
Guess she gave you things I didn't give to you

Old friend, why are you so shy?
Ain't like you to hold back or hide from the light

I hate to turn up out of the blue, uninvited
But I couldn't stay away, I couldn't fight it
I had hoped you'd see my face and that you'd be reminded
That for me, it isn't over

Never mind, I'll find someone like you
I wish nothing but the best for you, too
Don't forget me, I begged, I remember you said
Sometimes it lasts in love, but sometimes it hurts instead
Sometimes it lasts in love, but sometimes it hurts instead

You know how the time flies
Only yesterday was the time of our lives
We were born and raised in a summer haze
Bound by the surprise of our glory days

(Repeat Pre-Chorus and Chorus)
(exit stage, order another beer, sit in corner of bar alone, be inconsolable)

MY STATE. MY TEAM.

ts1227
General User

Member Since: 2/28/2006
Location: Tallmadge, OH
Post Count: 853

Status: Offline

RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 3/31/2012 10:29:28 PM

OhioCatFan wrote:

Is this ageist? regionalist? Don't know, but I don't like. Can't we get away from trying to stereotype folks all the time?

It's both. It seems to be a mix of the Boomer generation, combined with the way the Midwest often sticks with outdated mindsets longer. It is what it is.

Ozcat
General User

Member Since: 1/4/2005
Location: Gahanna, OH
Post Count: 818

Status: Offline

RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 3/31/2012 10:34:51 PM

8811, exactly what options wold be available to him next year, even IF he would take this team back to the Sweet Sixteen or even further? Since you're so all-knowing, I take it that the Convo will bear your name next season as your foresight will lead you to the winning MegaMillions ticket.

I find your rant completely absurd. You, or nobody else, has any clue as to how next season would have played out even with Groce at the helm, and nobody has any idea what jobs may be open as well.

It's pretty clear that he had zero intention of even considering the Nebraska job. Instead, he did accept a position that's barely 100 miles from his hometown, at a school that has plenty of history, and the potential to get back among the top 10 programs in the country in what has been the primer basketball conference in the country in the last few years. Like HE said (not what YOU think), it's a "once in a lifetime opportunity" and I completely agree with him.

crackerbaby00
General User

Member Since: 3/8/2007
Post Count: 441

Status: Offline

RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 3/31/2012 10:51:19 PM

Ozcat wrote:

It's pretty clear that he had zero intention of even considering the Nebraska job. Instead, he did accept a position that's barely 100 miles from his hometown, at a school that has plenty of history, and the potential to get back among the top 10 programs in the country in what has been the primer basketball conference in the country in the last few years. Like HE said (not what YOU think), it's a "once in a lifetime opportunity" and I completely agree with him.

I agree

RSBobcat
General User

Member Since: 8/22/2010
Location: Columbus, OH
Post Count: 4,401

Status: Offline

RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 3/31/2012 11:02:00 PM

Green Kool-Aid poisening........

RS Bobcat

Pataskala
General User

Member Since: 7/8/2010
Location: At least six feet away from anybody else
Post Count: 9,154

Status: Offline

RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 3/31/2012 11:03:23 PM

I guess you're entitled to your opinion 8811, but there are very few coaches any more who would be unwilling to take advantage of their success and move on to better-paid pastures. That's life in the "mid-majors." Stevens and Smart turned down the Illinois job, but they're in larger markets with better-paid positions. Stevens is making $750,000 or so coaching near his hometown; Smart is making $1.2 million. Groce will make four times at Illinois what he can make at Ohio; I think few of us would turn down such an opportunity. It's pretty narrow-minded to chastise someone for doing what's best for their family and their career, and for doing what 99% of us would do if we were in the same situation. Remember, as much as we like to glorify coaching, it's still a job. You take opportunities when you get them. Even before Groce left, others here raised the possibility that next year could be less successful -- a tougher schedule; bullseye on the team's backs; injuries. You might not like it that Groce struck while the iron was hot; none of us do. But it's unfair to criticize Groce for doing what he did. Frankly, I hope he succeeds. He's done well for Ohio, but if he looks like a flash-in-the-pan at the next level, there are some who might think his success here was a fluke, which would belittle this year's accomplishments. And by the same token I hope Ohio has a better season next year than this just to show we can do it without him.

We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

OhioCatFan
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 14,016

Status: Offline

RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 3/31/2012 11:04:15 PM

ts1227 wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

Is this ageist? regionalist? Don't know, but I don't like. Can't we get away from trying to stereotype folks all the time?

It's both. It seems to be a mix of the Boomer generation, combined with the way the Midwest often sticks with outdated mindsets longer. It is what it is.

Well, I don't think loyalty is an "outdated mindset." In fact, the term "mindset" itself is kind of outdated, IMHO, because in terms of Ohio basketball it dates back to the Hunter Era. He was always blaming our loses on the team having a poor mindset and the wins were because we entered the game with a good mindset. That, and "fresh legs." For the record, I'm not a Boomer -- my wife is, but like Got Frank, I'm a War Baby. We are even older and more crotchety.

RSBobcat
General User

Member Since: 8/22/2010
Location: Columbus, OH
Post Count: 4,401

Status: Offline

RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 3/31/2012 11:16:16 PM

OhioCatFan wrote:

ts1227 wrote:

Is this ageist? regionalist? Don't know, but I don't like. Can't we get away from trying to stereotype folks all the time?

Would that have to include Redchickens, Turds, Cant's, Kron's, Bucknuts, and any general reference to their locale?

RS Bobcat

Bobcat8811
General User

Member Since: 3/31/2012
Post Count: 32

Status: Offline

RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 3/31/2012 11:41:10 PM

Ozcat wrote:

Why is my point of view "absurd" -- as opposed to those who want to pat him on the back as he waves bye bye and cashes in? Hey, fine if you feel that way, but I can assure you, I'm not the only one not scattering roses on the path as he rides off in his limo.

I never claimed to know what would happen next year -- what I said was, if you'd bothered to read my post closely, was that he could've stayed and tried to make real history -- especially as he had the whole squad coming back. If not for that fact, I'd be more sympathetic to him moving on and getting paid. And again, nobody knows if they'd choke or not -- but really, if the guy's not confident enough with THIS squad a year more experienced and tournament-tested, I'd have to question what kind of coach he is.

The "once in a lifetime opportunity" is to take this OU squad, which TRULY will only exist for one more year (as opposed to the coaching job over there). This "once in a lifetime opportunity" would be to try and take a MAC team even further than the Sweet 16. You want to be a legend John? Take OU to the Elite 8 or beyond... you at least have the CHANCE to do that here... you'll never have that kind of chance again. THAT would put you up there with Wooden -- or you can be ordinary and blend in with the middling Big 10 teams.

Not to mention he could've written his ticket in Athens, where half a million a year is like earning at least double that in a town like Champaign. And if they want him so badly, you're going to tell me they say no to Groce in the future? So what's really the risk here? Other than some of you naively thinking Groce would never get offered a job at some big school again.

But no, I don't know the future. I DO know this about that "dream" job he's taking:

1. Groce isn't even their second choice, let alone their first. Do you know that both Smart and the Butler coach turned them down? Probably because they know what they'd be in store for with that AD over there. And speaking of Smart, there's a coach who did what you consider so ridiculous -- stayed to take the chance of doing something truly extraordinary with the smaller school.

2. Groce is from Indiana, spare me the Illinois connection thing... he's been at Xavier and OSU besides Athens, so if anything he's got more of an Ohio connection than Illinois. You Groce cheerleaders sure are swallowing a lot of nonsense. This is all about payday, and nothing but payday. Like I said, Illinois ain't no Syracuse, they're as little above a MAC school as you can get. Other than a cool mil and a half a year, this is anything but a dream gig.

Let me repeat for the rest of you -- I'm all for Groce going wherever he wants to, after next year. (You know, maybe making some of that same loyalty sacrifice he asks of his players, like DJ showed? Hmm?). So this isn't some romantic notion. It's just disappointing Groce shows himself to be like any other coach -- fine -- but spare us the bull crap, Johnny. You cashed out, and that's that. In fact here's his quote:

Quote:

“They did everything they could,” he said. “(President) Dr. Rod (McDavis) and (Athletic Director) Jim Schaus really worked hard to give our family an opportunity to stay. …

I'm sorry, if you're a Bobcat and not at least a little insulted by that, well... then frankly I think you're kind of pathetic. Or do you like hearing things like "well I'd like to stay in our relationship, but I don't think you're good enough no matter how much you beg me to stay"?

You people rationalizing for this cash-in king amaze me... sorry, it's not about romanticism, it's about not swallowing a line of bull. Like the one Groce is spewing on the way out. Groce could've written his ticket next year in Athens -- with OU salivating to give him as much as they could -- then moved on. There are LOTS of schools as good as Illinois out there -- AGAIN, this is Illinois, not Indiana, not Duke, not Georgetown or UCLA.

So look, I don't expect to change anyone's mind here. But if and when DJ goes, and takes with him the team and dream of next season, be sure and smile, then pat Groce on the back again, and thank him again for all he's done. Well played, John, well played!

Last Edited: 3/31/2012 11:55:20 PM by Bobcat8811

Bobcat8811
General User

Member Since: 3/31/2012
Post Count: 32

Status: Offline

RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 3/31/2012 11:42:37 PM

perimeterpost wrote:

Sounds like you got a lot of pent up aggression and are having trouble letting go, maybe next time you're doing Karaoke you can dedicate this one to Coach Groce and you'll feel better-

I assure you I have no trouble letting go. I simply don't buy the boo-hoo line of bull that so many of you here seem to. Read my posts again, and spare me the song lyrics. Thanks.

Last Edited: 3/31/2012 11:53:50 PM by Bobcat8811

Jerry86
General User

Member Since: 12/18/2010
Post Count: 645

Status: Offline

RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 3/31/2012 11:53:01 PM

Bobcat8811 wrote:

The "once in a lifetime opportunity" is to take this OU squad, which TRULY will only exist for one more year (as opposed to the coaching job over there). This "once in a lifetime opportunity" would be to try and take a MAC team even further than the Sweet 16. You want to be a legend John? Take OU to the Elite 8 or beyond... you at least have the CHANCE to do that here... you'll never have that kind of chance again. THAT would put you up there with Wooden -- or you can be ordinary and blend in with the middling Big 10 teams.

Up there with Wooden? LOL

John Robert Wooden (October 14, 1910 – June 4, 2010) was an American basketball player and coach. Nicknamed the "Wizard of Westwood", he won ten NCAA national championships in a 12-year period — seven in a row^[1] — as head coach at UCLA, an unprecedented feat.^[2]^[3] Within this period, his teams won a record 88 consecutive games.^[1] He was named national coach of the year six times.

But hey -- whatever you say. Making it to Elite 8 surely is equivalent to what Wooden did.

Bobcat8811
General User

Member Since: 3/31/2012
Post Count: 32

Status: Offline

RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/1/2012 12:00:08 AM

Jerry86 wrote:

Up there with Wooden? LOL

But hey -- whatever you say. Making it to Elite 8 surely is equivalent to what Wooden did.

Hate to tell ya, but they're already comparing what OU did to any big school making it to the finals.

And yeah -- you do it with a MAC school, you DO get glorified.. and glorified highly. You're a legend.

But what's the difference -- thanks to his decision, nobody will ever know, right?

PalmerFest
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 398

Status: Offline

RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/1/2012 12:01:08 AM

Groce is gone. Bye bye. Over.

I honestly think we have the best returning team in college hoops next yr, especially if Kadeem the Dream is as advertised.

PS Sullinger is Grocely overrated.

whocaresgobobcats
General User

Member Since: 8/29/2011
Post Count: 519

Status: Offline

RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/1/2012 12:04:47 AM

Jerry86 wrote:

Bobcat8811 wrote:

If Groce had a booster buy players like Wooden did, he'd be up there with him.

So Stan Heath is a legend because he took Kent to an Elite 8?

Illinois went to a NCG 7 years ago, they have a ton more potential than Ohio does.

UpSan Bobcat
General User

Member Since: 8/30/2005
Location: Upper Sandusky, OH
Post Count: 3,793

Status: Offline

RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/1/2012 12:06:29 AM

I am grateful John Groce did what he did for four years and leaves our program in excellent shape. I have no reason to be mad at him.

Recovering Journalist
General User

Member Since: 8/17/2010
Location: Cleveland, OH
Post Count: 1,839

Status: Offline

RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/1/2012 12:06:45 AM

So, if you were making $30k a year, and someone offered you more than $120k a year to do essentially the same job in a place where you'd get more recognition and have more opportunity to build your career faster, you'd be "loyal" and turn it down? OK, but you can't be surprised that most people wouldn't.

Jerry86
General User

Member Since: 12/18/2010
Post Count: 645

Status: Offline

RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/1/2012 12:07:39 AM

Bobcat8811 wrote:

Jerry86 wrote:

Up there with Wooden? LOL

But hey -- whatever you say. Making it to Elite 8 surely is equivalent to what Wooden did.

You apparently know zilch about basketball.

Us making it to the elite 8 is NOT, in any way, shape or form, remotely close to Wooden winning 10 NCAA championships or 88 consecutive games.

Second, if Groce stayed and did well, so what? Then he leaves with the cupboard semi-empty.

Third, a new coach can come in and do well next year and do as well, or possible better, than Groce would have done.

Bobcat8811
General User

Member Since: 3/31/2012
Post Count: 32

Status: Offline

RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/1/2012 12:15:53 AM

Lord Wellington Fisherburn wrote:

Illinois went to a NCG 7 years ago, they have a ton more potential than Ohio does.

Because they had a top-notch squad almost a DECADE ago they have more potential NOW? Wow. You guys are like gymnasts the way you'll twist to defend the guy who dumped you for the prettier gal. It's downright hard to figure.

Now back to the present (and reality):

Groce had a returning team that already won its conference and made it to the Sweet 16. Tourney-tested and a year more experienced. THAT is potential to the max.

Illinois is a middling Big 10 squad that looks up at OSU, Wisconsin, Indiana and Michigan. With an AD nobody wants to coach for -- go do a little digging and you'll see. (Smart didn't stay at VCU just for the money.) Illinois will need to win the Big 10 to even sniff a tourney bid -- at least the NCAA version.

Last Edited: 4/1/2012 12:35:01 AM by Bobcat8811

Bobcat8811
General User

Member Since: 3/31/2012
Post Count: 32

Status: Offline

RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/1/2012 12:17:14 AM

PalmerFest wrote:

I honestly think we have the best returning team in college hoops next yr, especially if Kadeem the Dream is as advertised.

Did you get that, Lord Wellington?

Thank you Palmer, for making my entire point. I rest my case.

Last Edited: 4/1/2012 12:18:12 AM by Bobcat8811

PalmerFest
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 398

Status: Offline

RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/1/2012 12:28:13 AM

bobcat88881 - I'm not sure if this helps or hurts your argument but I didn't read a word you wrote.

Bobcat8811
General User

Member Since: 3/31/2012
Post Count: 32

Status: Offline

RE: Good riddance, Groce, and don't let the doorknob hit you

Posted: 4/1/2012 12:32:27 AM

Recovering Journalist wrote:

Tell that to DJ Cooper, who hung with Ohio over Tennessee or Baylor. Or are you telling me he'd get more recognition in Athens? And REALLY tell me when your average coach preaches "sacrifice" and "loyalty" to all their players, but refuse to hold themselves to the same standard. Groce certainly isn't the first coach to do it, but it doesn't making it any lamer.

But let me give you a real-world example of why sometimes you see past the immediate bucks for the bigger picture. I have a bud who took a job at a small, "hot shop" ad agency for maybe $40K a year -- he got offered a job a year later at a bigger firm for double the money. Far from hopping to their offer, he stayed, for less money -- and for the chance of making a name for himself creatively (and knowing that if he did, he'd be a bigger deal down the line). And if he built up his book, and performed, there'd be another opportunity down the line for more money at a bigger place. Not to mention the prestige and awards he'd win at the smaller shop, where he'd be freer creatively. It may shock you, but it does happen, even in the mundane "real" world of business. Sometimes people see the forest over just the trees.

Last Edited: 4/1/2012 12:42:16 AM by Bobcat8811

Showing Replies:	1 - 25 of 121 Posts
Jump to Page:	1 \| 2 \| 3 \| 4 \| 5 Next >

View Other 'Ohio Basketball' Topics

There are 351 Active Visitors on BobcatAttack.com

351 Guests
0 Registered Users

There are no other users looking at this page.