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Topic: RE: Coach Boals

Topic: RE: Coach Boals

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FJC31
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RE: Coach Boals

Posted: 2/12/2025 10:19:11 AM

BillyTheCat wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

BillyTheCat wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

71 BOBCAT wrote:

I remain convinced that Boals is a good coach.
Injuries are not the coach's fault. We currently have 3 guys out due to injuries, throw in 2 games for Clayton and there is a reason why we have struggled. Let's not forget the absence of Elmore for a few games.
I still have observed coach changing line ups to try get something to work. He is not just accepting things as they are but rather moving the line up around as well as positioning time outs a little differently.
I will be interested to see what players stay or can return for another year.

GO BOBCATS

Well, he may be a good coach when looked at in a relative sense, but he's not yet in Jim Snyder, Danny Nee, or John Groce territory yet, IMHO. I say "yet" because sometimes it takes a coach some years to get to his ultimate best. I'm hoping that we have not seen his best.

He�s the winninest coach by percentage and you put him 4th. You probably have a Fire Ryan Day sign in your yard.

How's Boals' record against the top 3 teams in the MAC during his tenure? Is there a more accurate way to measure his success than on how he does against the conference we play in?

It�s not been what he wants, and I�m sure he and the team are aware of that. And, I�m sorry, never seen that stat when people discussing head coaches outside of Columbus.

All-Time we have losing records to BuGS and Akron, not like they have been teams where we all the sudden struggle.

Boals tenure started off strong and the program seemed to ascending to new heights. I remember beating St. Bonnies and Iona in his first year, when we really started to get a glimpse of how good Preston could be. Obviously, a MAC title and the Virginia win followed the next season.

We're not exactly trending in the right direction. Boals is 3-6 against Akron, 0-9 against Toledo, and 4-4 against Kent since 21/22.

Our non-conference record went from 9-2, 8-5, 6-6, and 6-6 with really the only marquee (if you even want to call them that) wins coming against Belmont, Delaware twice, and UNC-Asheville (17-7, 9-2) this year. You can make the argument that the latter is our best win all season.

Our overall record has dropped from 25-10, 19-14, 20-13, and 13-11 so far this season. We haven't made it out of the MAC semi's.

Boals might be atop the W's category, but that's inflated by dominating lesser opponents without many big wins including the MAC's best since that NCAA run.

M.D.W.S.T
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RE: Coach Boals

Posted: 2/12/2025 10:24:07 AM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

M.D.W.S.T wrote:

I measure his success by being 1 of 1 coaches with an NCAA Tournament win (obviously, Groce won with us, but not Akron).

Why? That seems incredibly reductive, and I don't understand why it makes sense that the school's highest paid employee should be measured by a single data point.

At some point, something accomplished in the 2020-2021 season sort of becomes irrelevant, right? I don't know that that's happened yet, but to decide Boals is a good coach until other coaches in the MAC win an NCAA tournament game feels like a completely arbitrary measure.

M.D.W.S.T wrote:

Who is your guiding light? Groce? Groce has 2 tournament appearances and no wins. Tod K? Toledo has a plethora of wins (avg of 22 a season, Boals is 19.6) and nothing but some regular season championships to show for it.

My "guiding light" is not other coaches. It's the basketball games that our basketball coach coaches and whether or not we're winning enough of them. When Boals plays Toledo, Akron, Kent State, and BG we lose more than we win. That's as true in the post-season as it is in the regular season.

Until that changes, we're far less likely to win NCAA tournament games and MAC Championships. What happens when we play the teams we need to beat to do those things is not irrelevant just because we won in 2021.

So again I ask, who is your guiding light? You hold Boals to the highest standard in the league? I mean, thats fine if you do, but I'm trying to see what is good enough in your eyes? If Boals isn't successful enough for you, then who in the conference is doing better? Toledo? Would you trade our ncaa tournament wins for never going at all? Akron? They've been to the tournament one other time than we have? Boals averages 19.6 wins a year. Others are all bunched together. Rob 20. Groce 21. Tod 22. So all things considered - the top four teams generally shift around the top four - it's relevant that we won in 2021, because others have't won at all.

Last Edited: 2/12/2025 10:25:10 AM by M.D.W.S.T

FJC31
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RE: Coach Boals

Posted: 2/12/2025 10:30:48 AM

M.D.W.S.T wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

M.D.W.S.T wrote:

I measure his success by being 1 of 1 coaches with an NCAA Tournament win (obviously, Groce won with us, but not Akron).

M.D.W.S.T wrote:

I think it's less about who is a guiding light and more so how we seem to be getting further and further away from that caliber of a team we had in 2021.

Which turns into the question, where is the light moving forward to get back to that?

Last Edited: 2/12/2025 10:31:09 AM by FJC31

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: Coach Boals

Posted: 2/12/2025 10:45:23 AM

M.D.W.S.T wrote:

So again I ask, who is your guiding light?

My answer is still that simply comparing him to other coaches on a couple of data points is not a good way to measure success. I don't think of any of those coaches as "guiding lights."

M.D.W.S.T wrote:

You hold Boals to the highest standard in the league? I mean, thats fine if you do, but I'm trying to see what is good enough in your eyes? If Boals isn't successful enough for you, then who in the conference is doing better? Toledo? Would you trade our ncaa tournament wins for never going at all? Akron? They've been to the tournament one other time than we have?

It does not matter to me what happens to Toledo in the MAC championship game unless Ohio is playing Toledo in the MAC championship game. Tod K isn't Ohio's coach, and his falling short in those games has no bearing whatsoever on what I think about Jeff Boals.

Similarly, it does not matter to me what happens to Akron when they get to the NCAA tournament. It's just not relevant to a discussion of Jeff Boals as a coach.

What matters is how well he recruits and prepares his teams to win the most important games on our schedule each year. The most important games we play take place in Cleveland, and against the top half of the MAC (basically always Akron, Kent State, Toledo, Miami, and us.

If you can't win those games consistently, MAC Championships and NCAA Tournament wins become more and more anomalous, and less reflective of the program that's actually being built.

The trendline for Boals isn't great right now. And his best team's best two players were guys he didn't recruit. His teams, full of guys he recruited, haven't been able to match that success, and I am not sure I see the case that given what we see right now the immediate future (next year, year after) is particularly bright.

M.D.W.S.T wrote:

Boals averages 19.6 wins a year. Others are all bunched together. Rob 20. Groce 21. Tod 22. So all things considered - the top four teams generally shift around the top four - it's relevant that we won in 2021, because others have't won at all.

And when Boals plays those guys, he loses a whole lot. And beating them is important to everything that you measure Boals by, too. Far more important than whether Tod K wins a game Ohio isn't playing in.

M.D.W.S.T
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RE: Coach Boals

Posted: 2/12/2025 10:53:18 AM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

M.D.W.S.T wrote:

So again I ask, who is your guiding light?

My answer is still that simply comparing him to other coaches on a couple of data points is not a good way to measure success. I don't think of any of those coaches as "guiding lights."

M.D.W.S.T wrote:

This whole thing was a bizarre read.

But I encourage you to think about it a little more.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: Coach Boals

Posted: 2/12/2025 11:05:05 AM

M.D.W.S.T wrote:

This whole thing was a bizarre read.

But I encourage you to think about it a little more.

Look man, I know your mouth's full at the moment, but when Boals wraps up you should ask him if he thinks it doesn't matter that he can't beat Toledo and Akron.

Because I assure you that even he knows it's not a good thing that we lose to Toledo 90% of the time and Akron 70% of the time. Throw a .500 winning percentage against Kent State into that equation. Now do a little math and tell me what that does to our odds of winning MAC championships and NCAA tournament games. You know, the things you consider the only measure of success.

We know who we need to beat to do those things. We know how often we beat them. My stance here isn't some impossible to crack rubric. It's a pretty basic equation. If there are teams in your conference you barely ever beat, you're barely ever gonna go to NCAA tournament.

But your way of doing it -- measuring Boals based on the outcome of last year's Akron-Creighton game -- makes a lot of sense, too.

Last Edited: 2/12/2025 11:07:41 AM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

GoCats105
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RE: Coach Boals

Posted: 2/12/2025 11:06:18 AM

M.D.W.S.T wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

BillyTheCat wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

71 BOBCAT wrote:

He�s the winninest coach by percentage and you put him 4th. You probably have a Fire Ryan Day sign in your yard.

How's Boals' record against the top 3 teams in the MAC during his tenure? Is there a more accurate way to measure his success than on how he does against the conference we play in?

I measure his success by being 1 of 1 coaches with an NCAA Tournament win (obviously, Groce won with us, but not Akron). And 1 of 3 coaches with a MAC Championship.

Who is your guiding light? Groce? Groce has 2 tournament appearances and no wins. Tod K? Toledo has a plethora of wins (avg of 22 a season, Boals is 19.6) and nothing but some regular season championships to show for it.

Stan Heath also has an NCAA Tournament win, FWIW.

M.D.W.S.T
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RE: Coach Boals

Posted: 2/12/2025 4:03:50 PM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

M.D.W.S.T wrote:

This whole thing was a bizarre read.

But I encourage you to think about it a little more.

Again, just bizarre stuff here.

Unfortunately, all games matter as do their outcomes. Your nonsensical rambling doesn't change the game outcomes. Your argument is he beats the teams he should beat too much? I've literally shown you that his success is either greater or on a similar plane as others.

He can't beat Akron. That's great. Awesome man. So what does Akron have to show for it? They went to the NCAA tournament one additional time, and lost both? That's what you're so upset about? Touch some grass my man.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: Coach Boals

Posted: 2/12/2025 4:43:13 PM

M.D.W.S.T wrote:

You've almost got it. I'll spell it out for you: if you beat bad teams, but lose to good teams, that makes you a mediocre. To be a good team, you have to beat good teams. Therefore, it's helpful to look at your record against good teams to understand how good you are.

Complicated, I know, so not surprising it's taken you so long to catch up.

M.D.W.S.T wrote:

He can't beat Akron. That's great. Awesome man. So what does Akron have to show for it? They went to the NCAA tournament one additional time, and lost both? That's what you're so upset about? Touch some grass my man.

Boals' record against the best teams in the MAC:

Akron 4-8
Kent State 6-6
Toledo 1-9

That means he's 11 and 23 against other top programs in the MAC. A 32% winning percentage.

We've lost to one of those three schools in the MAC tournament three straight years. In every single case, had we won that game, we'd have faced another of those three teams in the next round of the tournament.

Based on Jeff Boals' record, the odds of us beating Kent State and Akron back-to-back are 16%. Toledo and Kent State? 5%. Akron and Toledo? 3.3%.

But it's good news we're averaging 20ish regular season wins a year and so are those teams that beat us all the time. We're definitely the same as them because "all games matter". Sure, we keep losing the ones we play against the teams we need to beat to win anything meaningful. But at least we got that win against UNC Asheville under our belt. It's amazing Jeff Boals hasn't been plucked away by Kansas yet.

Last Edited: 2/12/2025 6:25:38 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

TWT
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RE: Coach Boals

Posted: 2/15/2025 1:08:01 PM

Alan Swank wrote:

BillyTheCat wrote:

All this talk of NIL, but no one is mentioning how much revenue sharing
the University will be giving to ICA? How much of the maximum will we be willing to spend?

This a very interesting starting point for a revenue sharing conversation. The last sentence is particularly interesting since is the majority of our "revenue."

Revenue does not include direct or indirect school support, student fees or unrecompensed (i.e. charitable) contributions to the athletic department from alumni and boosters.

https://nil-ncaa.com/football /

If student athlete money is going to be a determining factor as to whether or not over the longer run a program like Ohio is going to be able to compete then I don't see the point of replacing Boals. Particularly when the marketplace for that money is still undefined at the mid major level. That gives hope the Boals and the AD could figure out the money and right the ship while othe mid majors are starting over by firing their coach and hiring yet another coach who either isn't going to have the resources or know what he's doing with the resources.

Big risk factor in switching staffs right now IMO.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

MonroeClassmate
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RE: Coach Boals

Posted: 2/23/2025 2:35:17 PM

For those critical of Coach for not securing a big man recruit, here is what a Zip fan thinks of the Akron recruiting:

"We can trace this loss (OHIO)with a direct line back to SUNY Brockport and the failure to recruit a viable back up big."

The one that got away perhaps?

Glad Vic Searles isn't wearing a Zip uni.......

greencat
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RE: Coach Boals

Posted: 2/23/2025 4:26:18 PM

I said it in another thread and I'll say it again.

Unless Hadaway is going to double as a backup center on that surgical ankle, we need to bring in TWO bigs if there are enough schollies to allow such. The "Vic replacement" doesn't have to be Jaren Jackson Jr. just not below the "Vic" level.

FearLeon
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RE: Coach Boals

Posted: 2/23/2025 8:00:12 PM

greencat wrote:

1000%

#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

GraffZ06
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RE: Coach Boals

Posted: 2/23/2025 9:28:25 PM

greencat wrote:

I fully expect our big rotation next year to be:

Starting PF - Hadaway
Starting C - Portal
Backup PF - Kuany/Mobley
Backup C - Evans

OhioCatFan
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RE: Coach Boals

Posted: 2/23/2025 11:07:36 PM

GraffZ06 wrote:

greencat wrote:

I fully expect our big rotation next year to be:

Starting PF - Hadaway
Starting C - Portal
Backup PF - Kuany/Mobley
Backup C - Evans

I just hope that Portal is a talented 6-10 to 7 foot BigManz from another country, who can't take NIL money, and who loves Athens and stays for 4 years unless he's drafted by the NBA first. Where's my friend The Optimist to give me a thumbs up on that wish?

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

GraffZ06
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RE: Coach Boals

Posted: 2/24/2025 8:41:00 AM

Hah I mean I'll take it, but I think you're going to be disappointed if that's the standard.

I expect them to be a 1-year stop gap guy who gets us to Evans.

Might be 6'10. Might be 6'8. Given Boals offense expect them to be able to shoot and run the pick and roll from the top.

Given NIL limitations my guess (could be wrong and surprised here) is a JUCO or D2 grad transfer coming up for a year rather than a D1 transfer guy. Then again Boals landed Ogbanda from Georgia Tech, Wilson from James Madison, Carter from Xavier, Wiz from Louisville so there's precedent there.

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