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Topic:  RE: A way to get fans back in the stands?

Topic:  RE: A way to get fans back in the stands?
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ohiocatfan1
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  Message Not Read  RE: A way to get fans back in the stands?
   Posted: 1/26/2021 10:24:02 AM 
ohiocatfan1 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
ohiocatfan1 wrote:
[QUOTE=BillyTheCat] BLS, this person obviously has their own set of "facts", based on no facts! How, we still have folks like this just blow me away!


I feel the same way.


The numbers I cited are from the official numbers from the CDC. You may not agree with them, but at the very least you can acknowledge those are not "my facts." I'm at least providing a citation and asking to see citations of your own.





Last Edited: 1/26/2021 10:24:20 AM by ohiocatfan1

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ohiocatfan1
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  Message Not Read  RE: A way to get fans back in the stands?
   Posted: 1/26/2021 10:25:12 AM 
I don't disagree. I just see the entire Covid response and ramifications of the response very differently than many others do.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: A way to get fans back in the stands?
   Posted: 1/26/2021 10:39:30 AM 
ohiocatfan1 wrote:
I don't disagree. I just see the entire Covid response and ramifications of the response very differently than many others do.


That's clear, and it's why I'm asking you how you see it and how your interpretation of the official numbers supports your opinion.
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ohiocatfan1
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  Message Not Read  RE: A way to get fans back in the stands?
   Posted: 1/26/2021 10:54:15 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
ohiocatfan1 wrote:
I don't disagree. I just see the entire Covid response and ramifications of the response very differently than many others do.


That's clear, and it's why I'm asking you how you see it and how your interpretation of the official numbers supports your opinion.


I concede to you on the official numbers. I'm seeing what the response has been to Covid and the ramifications. The ramifications of no church socials, no small town festivals, no community parades, many children not in school, thousands unemployed, etc. The response is harming communities and families. I fully support protecting the most vulnerable to a virus but the collateral damage cannot be ignored.

Last Edited: 1/26/2021 11:00:16 AM by ohiocatfan1

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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: A way to get fans back in the stands?
   Posted: 1/26/2021 11:07:04 AM 
ohiocatfan1 wrote:

In my opinion we are not even close to the 7th inning of this thing. Statistics show that over 1/2 of Ohio healthcare workers are refusing the vaccine. The numbers among the general public will no doubt be worse.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2021/01/02/large-n...



How can a healthcare worker retain their job while refusing the vaccination? Particularly, as cited in this piece, nursing home workers working with some of the most at-risk people in society?
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ohiocatfan1
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  Message Not Read  RE: A way to get fans back in the stands?
   Posted: 1/26/2021 11:12:06 AM 
OU_Country wrote:
ohiocatfan1 wrote:

In my opinion we are not even close to the 7th inning of this thing. Statistics show that over 1/2 of Ohio healthcare workers are refusing the vaccine. The numbers among the general public will no doubt be worse.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2021/01/02/large-n...



How can a healthcare worker retain their job while refusing the vaccination? Particularly, as cited in this piece, nursing home workers working with some of the most at-risk people in society?


It's very strange. There are PSAs everywhere featuring healthcare workers to get the message across about how bad this virus is yet a very high percentage of them are refusing the vaccine.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: A way to get fans back in the stands?
   Posted: 1/26/2021 12:05:53 PM 
ohiocatfan1 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
ohiocatfan1 wrote:
I don't disagree. I just see the entire Covid response and ramifications of the response very differently than many others do.


That's clear, and it's why I'm asking you how you see it and how your interpretation of the official numbers supports your opinion.


I concede to you on the official numbers. I'm seeing what the response has been to Covid and the ramifications. The ramifications of no church socials, no small town festivals, no community parades, many children not in school, thousands unemployed, etc. The response is harming communities and families. I fully support protecting the most vulnerable to a virus but the collateral damage cannot be ignored.


There's a whole lot of space between ". . .the collateral damage can't be ignored" and stating that driving to and from a basketball game is more dangerous than a virus that's infected 25 million people and killed 400k.

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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: A way to get fans back in the stands?
   Posted: 1/26/2021 12:08:17 PM 
ohiocatfan1 wrote:


It's very strange. There are PSAs everywhere featuring healthcare workers to get the message across about how bad this virus is yet a very high percentage of them are refusing the vaccine.


My wife is a visiting nurse.
She was concerned about possible side effects from the vaccine.
She was planning on waiting to get vaccinated.
Because of advances in treatment,a lot of covid patients are coming home after a
few days in the hospital.
So,her patient load is now "covid heavy".
Because of that,she got vaccinated.
Actually got her second dose about an hour ago.

I also have a niece who's a critical care nurse in a covid ward, for a hospital
that acts as a regional receiving center for severe covid cases.
She made it through the "first wave" without a problem.
She was worried about the vaccine affecting her fertility, so she
was planning on waiting.
But,after talking to the infectious disease doctors in her hospital,
she decided not to push her luck,and risked getting vaccinated.

From the people my wife and niece know,unless they have direct and
regular contact with covid patients,health care workers aren't rushing out to get vaccinated.

In fact,because of their reluctance,hospitals around here are now able to expand their "pool", to include employee family members,living in the same home,who are over 65,are a smoker or have underlying conditions.


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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: A way to get fans back in the stands?
   Posted: 1/26/2021 12:37:59 PM 
ohiocatfan1 wrote:
[I concede to you on the official numbers. I'm seeing what the response has been to Covid and the ramifications. The ramifications of no church socials, no small town festivals, no community parades, many children not in school, thousands unemployed, etc. The response is harming communities and families. I fully support protecting the most vulnerable to a virus but the collateral damage cannot be ignored.


I grew up in a very small community that is being ravaged by Covid. I currently work in two of the smallest counties in North Carolina. In one, 8% of the county residence have tested positive for Covid. In the other 9% have. In that county, 2% of residence have either died or been hospitalized with Covid - Note: this is not those that tested positive, but of the community at large. Basically everyone knows someone who knows someone that has died or been hospitalized - 2 degrees of separation. Currently 35% of the hospital beds are filled with covid patients. Having the hospital director and largest funeral director on my board and committees, I can assure you it's not "underlying conditions" that did them in. Which is an odd argument anyways if you truly believe in the "sanctity of life" - but that may only apply to another argument.

Bottomline, I can assure you folks in small towns are not hankering for festivals and parades. In fact folks called on me and others to be fired when they thought we was advocating for such last fall.
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ohiocatfan1
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  Message Not Read  RE: A way to get fans back in the stands?
   Posted: 1/26/2021 1:49:18 PM 
cc-cat wrote:
ohiocatfan1 wrote:
[I concede to you on the official numbers. I'm seeing what the response has been to Covid and the ramifications. The ramifications of no church socials, no small town festivals, no community parades, many children not in school, thousands unemployed, etc. The response is harming communities and families. I fully support protecting the most vulnerable to a virus but the collateral damage cannot be ignored.


I grew up in a very small community that is being ravaged by Covid. I currently work in two of the smallest counties in North Carolina. In one, 8% of the county residence have tested positive for Covid. In the other 9% have. In that county, 2% of residence have either died or been hospitalized with Covid - Note: this is not those that tested positive, but of the community at large. Basically everyone knows someone who knows someone that has died or been hospitalized - 2 degrees of separation. Currently 35% of the hospital beds are filled with covid patients. Having the hospital director and largest funeral director on my board and committees, I can assure you it's not "underlying conditions" that did them in. Which is an odd argument anyways if you truly believe in the "sanctity of life" - but that may only apply to another argument.

Bottomline, I can assure you folks in small towns are not hankering for festivals and parades. In fact folks called on me and others to be fired when they thought we was advocating for such last fall.


I think we all have to keep in mind there are various opinions and views about this entire Covid issue and how it is being dealt with.

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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: A way to get fans back in the stands?
   Posted: 1/26/2021 2:02:24 PM 
Yes - But not "alternative facts"

Bottomline, I can assure you folks in the small towns I am involved with are not hankering for festivals and parades. The funerals they have not been able to attend, and the visits to friends in the hospital they have not been able to make - are not replaced by parades and festivals.

And like most everything else, these small towns are at the back of the line for vaccines, grants, and government support. Too few voters to be top of interest.

Last Edited: 1/26/2021 2:05:09 PM by cc-cat

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: A way to get fans back in the stands?
   Posted: 1/26/2021 2:32:39 PM 
ohiocatfan1 wrote:

I think we all have to keep in mind there are various opinions and views about this entire Covid issue and how it is being dealt with.



Example of an Opinion: "I think the collateral damage of our handling of Covid might be worse than the virus itself."

Example of a statement of fact: "Being injured or killed in a car crash going to or from the game is much more likely than contracting this virus."

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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: A way to get fans back in the stands?
   Posted: 1/26/2021 2:33:12 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
BLS, this person obviously has their own set of "facts", based on no facts! How, we still have folks like this just blow me away!


My brother doesn't believe gravity is real anymore...so...they're out there.
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: A way to get fans back in the stands?
   Posted: 1/26/2021 2:41:33 PM 
cc-cat wrote:
ohiocatfan1 wrote:
[I concede to you on the official numbers. I'm seeing what the response has been to Covid and the ramifications. The ramifications of no church socials, no small town festivals, no community parades, many children not in school, thousands unemployed, etc. The response is harming communities and families. I fully support protecting the most vulnerable to a virus but the collateral damage cannot be ignored.


Which is an odd argument anyways if you truly believe in the "sanctity of life" - but that may only apply to another argument.



This is the argument I've never understood. "Well it only kills X number of people, that's less than (insert other cause of death)"

I don't give a rip how many people die. If we can prevent ONE person from dying do whatever is necessary, let alone 400,000.

All in all, life is more important than sports, church festivals, parades and whatever else. Come to terms with the fact that we won't have that stuff for a while and you'll be a lot less stressed out or worried about it. It's amazing to me that we still don't get that as a society. THIS IS HAPPENING. Whether you like it or not. And it has nothing to do with civil liberties or rights. It's about saving lives.

Get over it.

The Convo will still be there and the Ohio Bobcats will still be there.
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ohiocatfan1
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  Message Not Read  RE: A way to get fans back in the stands?
   Posted: 1/26/2021 3:19:26 PM 
GoCats105 wrote:
cc-cat wrote:
ohiocatfan1 wrote:
[I concede to you on the official numbers. I'm seeing what the response has been to Covid and the ramifications. The ramifications of no church socials, no small town festivals, no community parades, many children not in school, thousands unemployed, etc. The response is harming communities and families. I fully support protecting the most vulnerable to a virus but the collateral damage cannot be ignored.


Which is an odd argument anyways if you truly believe in the "sanctity of life" - but that may only apply to another argument.



This is the argument I've never understood. "Well it only kills X number of people, that's less than (insert other cause of death)"

I don't give a rip how many people die. If we can prevent ONE person from dying do whatever is necessary, let alone 400,000.

All in all, life is more important than sports, church festivals, parades and whatever else. Come to terms with the fact that we won't have that stuff for a while and you'll be a lot less stressed out or worried about it. It's amazing to me that we still don't get that as a society. THIS IS HAPPENING. Whether you like it or not. And it has nothing to do with civil liberties or rights. It's about saving lives.

Get over it.

The Convo will still be there and the Ohio Bobcats will still be there.


If the speed limit were lowered to 15 instead of its current 55 wouldn't we assume that would save lives? Why don't we do that as well? If tobacco weren't sold wouldn't that save lives? Where is the line drawn?
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Buckeye to Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: A way to get fans back in the stands?
   Posted: 1/26/2021 4:33:14 PM 
For me, the easiest marketing pitch exists:

Super Bowl is letting 7000 essential workers into the game. Why not have those who are comfortable sitting next to each other in a massive group do so, assuming that all have been given COVID shots. That would not only raise consumer confidence that normalcy can happen, but then have the messaging be throughout the game, "This is why you get the shot. Want to get back to normal? Call your local hospital and get it done."
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Kevin Finnegan
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  Message Not Read  RE: A way to get fans back in the stands?
   Posted: 1/26/2021 4:44:08 PM 
GoCats105 wrote:


This is the argument I've never understood. "Well it only kills X number of people, that's less than (insert other cause of death)"

I don't give a rip how many people die. If we can prevent ONE person from dying do whatever is necessary, let alone 400,000.

All in all, life is more important than sports, church festivals, parades and whatever else.


I have to disagree with much of this. According to the CDC, for example, we have seen so far approximately 58 COVID deaths for individuals 5-14. If you expand the group up to 24, there have been under 600 deaths in the United States from COVID.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm...

However, the New York Times reported this weekend about Las Vegas (and a number of other localities) that are seeing a rise in young adult suicides possibly related to children being isolated.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/24/us/politics/student-su...

Children in my state of Illinois have been unable to play school sports for nearly a year. Many have been out of the classroom during that same amount of time. To prevent ONE person from dying and to do everything that is necessary is foolish. We cannot resort to living in a bubble to protect everyone.

I don't want to sound crass, but we cannot fall into a trap of doing everything necessary to protect ONE person (your words). Hell, we often have more school shooting deaths annually for children 5-14 than we have seen national COVID deaths in that age range. Never have I heard the argument that we should close down all schools due to the tragic mass shootings. Yet we are shutting down schools, keeping kids off playing fields, eliminating social opportunities for our adolescents and young adults which will be detrimental to their mental health and their academic development. Numbers are not readily available yet, but I am unfortunately expecting a rise in suicides and overdoses in the US for teens due to the lack of social interaction from the last year. This is a tragedy that can be addressed but is being relatively ignored in many of these shutdowns.

There are annually stories of college football players who die from severe practice conditions. I have not heard of a high school player or college player in team sports that has yet died of COVID. In doing a simple search, there's only one case that was listed as a possible case, but came from a school that had already canceled its season, so it wasn't contracted through sports.
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ohiocatfan1
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  Message Not Read  RE: A way to get fans back in the stands?
   Posted: 1/26/2021 4:49:44 PM 
Kevin Finnegan wrote:
GoCats105 wrote:


This is the argument I've never understood. "Well it only kills X number of people, that's less than (insert other cause of death)"

I don't give a rip how many people die. If we can prevent ONE person from dying do whatever is necessary, let alone 400,000.

All in all, life is more important than sports, church festivals, parades and whatever else.


I have to disagree with much of this. According to the CDC, for example, we have seen so far approximately 58 COVID deaths for individuals 5-14. If you expand the group up to 24, there have been under 600 deaths in the United States from COVID.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm...

However, the New York Times reported this weekend about Las Vegas (and a number of other localities) that are seeing a rise in young adult suicides possibly related to children being isolated.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/24/us/politics/student-su...

Children in my state of Illinois have been unable to play school sports for nearly a year. Many have been out of the classroom during that same amount of time. To prevent ONE person from dying and to do everything that is necessary is foolish. We cannot resort to living in a bubble to protect everyone.

I don't want to sound crass, but we cannot fall into a trap of doing everything necessary to protect ONE person (your words). Hell, we often have more school shooting deaths annually for children 5-14 than we have seen national COVID deaths in that age range. Never have I heard the argument that we should close down all schools due to the tragic mass shootings. Yet we are shutting down schools, keeping kids off playing fields, eliminating social opportunities for our adolescents and young adults which will be detrimental to their mental health and their academic development. Numbers are not readily available yet, but I am unfortunately expecting a rise in suicides and overdoses in the US for teens due to the lack of social interaction from the last year. This is a tragedy that can be addressed but is being relatively ignored in many of these shutdowns.

There are annually stories of college football players who die from severe practice conditions. I have not heard of a high school player or college player in team sports that has yet died of COVID. In doing a simple search, there's only one case that was listed as a possible case, but came from a school that had already canceled its season, so it wasn't contracted through sports.


A good dose of common sense if I have ever heard one.

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ohiocatfan1
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  Message Not Read  RE: A way to get fans back in the stands?
   Posted: 1/26/2021 4:56:37 PM 
Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:
For me, the easiest marketing pitch exists:

Super Bowl is letting 7000 essential workers into the game. Why not have those who are comfortable sitting next to each other in a massive group do so, assuming that all have been given COVID shots. That would not only raise consumer confidence that normalcy can happen, but then have the messaging be throughout the game, "This is why you get the shot. Want to get back to normal? Call your local hospital and get it done."


Very nice idea. What people need is to see an example of light at the end of the tunnel. For nearly a year it's been nothing but doom and gloom and endless lockdowns, masks & distancing.

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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: A way to get fans back in the stands?
   Posted: 1/26/2021 5:00:36 PM 
Kevin Finnegan wrote:
GoCats105 wrote:


This is the argument I've never understood. "Well it only kills X number of people, that's less than (insert other cause of death)"

I don't give a rip how many people die. If we can prevent ONE person from dying do whatever is necessary, let alone 400,000.

All in all, life is more important than sports, church festivals, parades and whatever else.


I have to disagree with much of this. According to the CDC, for example, we have seen so far approximately 58 COVID deaths for individuals 5-14. If you expand the group up to 24, there have been under 600 deaths in the United States from COVID.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm...

However, the New York Times reported this weekend about Las Vegas (and a number of other localities) that are seeing a rise in young adult suicides possibly related to children being isolated.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/24/us/politics/student-su...

Children in my state of Illinois have been unable to play school sports for nearly a year. Many have been out of the classroom during that same amount of time. To prevent ONE person from dying and to do everything that is necessary is foolish. We cannot resort to living in a bubble to protect everyone.

I don't want to sound crass, but we cannot fall into a trap of doing everything necessary to protect ONE person (your words). Hell, we often have more school shooting deaths annually for children 5-14 than we have seen national COVID deaths in that age range. Never have I heard the argument that we should close down all schools due to the tragic mass shootings. Yet we are shutting down schools, keeping kids off playing fields, eliminating social opportunities for our adolescents and young adults which will be detrimental to their mental health and their academic development. Numbers are not readily available yet, but I am unfortunately expecting a rise in suicides and overdoses in the US for teens due to the lack of social interaction from the last year. This is a tragedy that can be addressed but is being relatively ignored in many of these shutdowns.

There are annually stories of college football players who die from severe practice conditions. I have not heard of a high school player or college player in team sports that has yet died of COVID. In doing a simple search, there's only one case that was listed as a possible case, but came from a school that had already canceled its season, so it wasn't contracted through sports.


This is all well and good but school shootings don't get contracted through other school shootings and neither do college athlete practice deaths get caused because they caught underlying conditions from other college athletes. These are completely separate arguments. Guns and Covid are not linked.

You may have not found many cases of college athletes dying of Covid, but what you can find is the root cause of many Covid cases or deaths caused from a gathering of people in one place. There's a reason large gatherings don't make sense. Kids or young adults may not be as susceptible to this disease, but it can be spread through large gatherings of people and you can pinpoint it back to that. It's a fact.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/how-a-small-weddin...

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6947e1.htm

https://patch.com/pennsylvania/norristown/school-event-oc...


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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: A way to get fans back in the stands?
   Posted: 1/26/2021 5:05:54 PM 
ohiocatfan1 wrote:
GoCats105 wrote:
cc-cat wrote:
ohiocatfan1 wrote:
[I concede to you on the official numbers. I'm seeing what the response has been to Covid and the ramifications. The ramifications of no church socials, no small town festivals, no community parades, many children not in school, thousands unemployed, etc. The response is harming communities and families. I fully support protecting the most vulnerable to a virus but the collateral damage cannot be ignored.


Which is an odd argument anyways if you truly believe in the "sanctity of life" - but that may only apply to another argument.



This is the argument I've never understood. "Well it only kills X number of people, that's less than (insert other cause of death)"

I don't give a rip how many people die. If we can prevent ONE person from dying do whatever is necessary, let alone 400,000.

All in all, life is more important than sports, church festivals, parades and whatever else. Come to terms with the fact that we won't have that stuff for a while and you'll be a lot less stressed out or worried about it. It's amazing to me that we still don't get that as a society. THIS IS HAPPENING. Whether you like it or not. And it has nothing to do with civil liberties or rights. It's about saving lives.

Get over it.

The Convo will still be there and the Ohio Bobcats will still be there.


If the speed limit were lowered to 15 instead of its current 55 wouldn't we assume that would save lives? Why don't we do that as well? If tobacco weren't sold wouldn't that save lives? Where is the line drawn?


Ah yes, so the 400,000 lives lost in less than a year are just collateral damage. Cost of doing business. Got it.

And yes, cigarettes (nicotine moreso than tobacco) do cause a lot of deaths and need to be regulated. Heart disease is the #1 cause of death in America and some can be linked to that.

Last Edited: 1/26/2021 5:08:02 PM by GoCats105

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Kevin Finnegan
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  Message Not Read  RE: A way to get fans back in the stands?
   Posted: 1/26/2021 5:53:41 PM 
GoCats, you are certainly right about the fact that there is no contagious aspect in play for overworked players dying on the practice field. However, unfortunately, suicide and mass shootings have shown to have a contagion effect on young adults, primarily males.

https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2016/08/media-con...

https://www.alicetraining.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK207262 /

I just really think, in working with kids and young adults in school administration, that we NEED kids sports. We need to figure out the ways to expose them to more social outlets. This is a crisis. I don't want to see us reacting foolishly in reopening, but I know that we cannot remain closed. As a school, we have been open every day this year except today (snow pushed us to e-learning for one day). We have not had any cases of spread within the building all year in a building with nearly 500 individuals daily. That despite having been together for now 85 school days. It can be done. It requires significant precautions. It likely requires masks and social distancing. It may require limiting significantly the fans in the stadium/fieldhouse/court/field. However, it is necessary. Sports can often be the reason students stay engaged socially, academically, and emotionally. It can have great positives for their mental health.

I also believe that all schools can and should be open, especially elementary schools. Remote learning is highly detrimental to emergent learners. Students in less privileged areas are being set up for a significant deficit in their learning. This will be a debt we will be paying as a country for many years to come. However, I'll save that for another time/post.
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: A way to get fans back in the stands?
   Posted: 1/26/2021 6:06:03 PM 
Kevin Finnegan wrote:
GoCats, you are certainly right about the fact that there is no contagious aspect in play for overworked players dying on the practice field. However, unfortunately, suicide and mass shootings have shown to have a contagion effect on young adults, primarily males.

https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2016/08/media-con...

https://www.alicetraining.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK207262 /

I just really think, in working with kids and young adults in school administration, that we NEED kids sports. We need to figure out the ways to expose them to more social outlets. This is a crisis. I don't want to see us reacting foolishly in reopening, but I know that we cannot remain closed. As a school, we have been open every day this year except today (snow pushed us to e-learning for one day). We have not had any cases of spread within the building all year in a building with nearly 500 individuals daily. That despite having been together for now 85 school days. It can be done. It requires significant precautions. It likely requires masks and social distancing. It may require limiting significantly the fans in the stadium/fieldhouse/court/field. However, it is necessary. Sports can often be the reason students stay engaged socially, academically, and emotionally. It can have great positives for their mental health.

I also believe that all schools can and should be open, especially elementary schools. Remote learning is highly detrimental to emergent learners. Students in less privileged areas are being set up for a significant deficit in their learning. This will be a debt we will be paying as a country for many years to come. However, I'll save that for another time/post.


Interesting discussion. The kids sports thing has two sides - the points you make and that faction that is so obsessed with getting their kids to play that they would dp anything to have them play. Quick question. If your school has been in session all year, on a scale of 1 to 10 with 1 being nothing and 10 being normal, what number would you give your district this year as far as teaching and learning goes?
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: A way to get fans back in the stands?
   Posted: 1/26/2021 6:32:55 PM 
Kevin Finnegan wrote:



I have to disagree with much of this. According to the CDC, for example, we have seen so far approximately 58 COVID deaths for individuals 5-14. If you expand the group up to 24, there have been under 600 deaths in the United States from COVID.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm...

However, the New York Times reported this weekend about Las Vegas (and a number of other localities) that are seeing a rise in young adult suicides possibly related to children being isolated.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/24/us/politics/student-su...

Children in my state of Illinois have been unable to play school sports for nearly a year. Many have been out of the classroom during that same amount of time. To prevent ONE person from dying and to do everything that is necessary is foolish. We cannot resort to living in a bubble to protect everyone.

I don't want to sound crass, but we cannot fall into a trap of doing everything necessary to protect ONE person (your words). Hell, we often have more school shooting deaths annually for children 5-14 than we have seen national COVID deaths in that age range. Never have I heard the argument that we should close down all schools due to the tragic mass shootings. Yet we are shutting down schools, keeping kids off playing fields, eliminating social opportunities for our adolescents and young adults which will be detrimental to their mental health and their academic development. Numbers are not readily available yet, but I am unfortunately expecting a rise in suicides and overdoses in the US for teens due to the lack of social interaction from the last year. This is a tragedy that can be addressed but is being relatively ignored in many of these shutdowns.

There are annually stories of college football players who die from severe practice conditions. I have not heard of a high school player or college player in team sports that has yet died of COVID. In doing a simple search, there's only one case that was listed as a possible case, but came from a school that had already canceled its season, so it wasn't contracted through sports.


The challenge here is that while Covid is not a risk to children, they can be carriers, and schools need adults to operate, and children then go home to their adult parents. And the risk to those adults is non-trivial.

I don't think there are super easy answers here. But the easiest one, in my mind, has been ignored. We should have been paying front line workers more for the risk they're taking this entire time. Want to just open schools? Pay the teachers hazard pay, covered by the federal government, and open the schools. Otherwise, you're asking them to take a non-trivial risk and not incentivizing them to do so.

Last Edited: 1/26/2021 6:34:33 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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Kevin Finnegan
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  Message Not Read  RE: A way to get fans back in the stands?
   Posted: 1/26/2021 6:37:01 PM 
Alan,

Great question. This year certainly has been odd and one that I wouldn't want to repeat. It's been the most trying one as an administrator and there have been fights, discussions, disagreements, and challenges I'd never experienced before. Our learning has certainly suffered due to a couple of factors. Students are cohorted, not interacting with students outside of their classroom. That means no grade-level recess, no separate PE, no other specials outside of the classroom, no teachers sharing students for interventions. Students are primarily confined to their classroom or for individual class recess (and also lunch out of the room).

So, to answer your question about the effectiveness of learning, we are running the option of remote learning and also offering in-person learning. About 8% of our population has selected remote learning (though more are consistently choosing to return to in-person learning). For them, I would unfortunately put the learning at about a 2-3 on the scale. We are using professional teachers, zoom, supplied technology, etc, but it's quite difficult to build strong emergent readers through virtual learning. As for our in-person learning, even with mask wearing (which has not been an issue for students at all...staff is sometimes a different story), we are seeing significant academic gains. Our social-emotional gains feel a bit strained, but at least they are interacting with a group of peers. I would say that, if our usual school year would be a 10, this year we are hovering around the 7 neighborhood. Our raw scores from diagnostic assessments are on par with previous years, however I know there is much lost without the specials, without the interaction from other classes, and without utilizing all of our teacher resources like we have in the past.
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