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Topic:  RE: Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?

Topic:  RE: Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
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MonroeClassmate
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/17/2020 6:50:43 PM 
Testing. Tests need FDA approval.

Is it true that once China had provided the sequence of the virus that the CDC then developed a test in 14 days and the FDA approved it the next day?

Was the sequencing known by the US for more than 14 days?

What is the argument that US testing was not created soon enough and not enough test kits? How do you get a test kit made before FDA approval?

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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/17/2020 9:56:20 PM 
MonroeClassmate wrote:
Testing. Tests need FDA approval.

Is it true that once China had provided the sequence of the virus that the CDC then developed a test in 14 days and the FDA approved it the next day?

Was the sequencing known by the US for more than 14 days?

What is the argument that US testing was not created soon enough and not enough test kits? How do you get a test kit made before FDA approval?


Many people had symptoms, but could not get tested because the CDC was only willing to test people who had symptoms, AND who also had known exposure. Thus, if you had symptoms, but couldn't prove a way you might have gotten it, you could not be tested. They limited it because they did not have enough tests, but why that is, I don't know. I do know that S. Korea had tested about many thousands of people before the US was able to test 500.

Other people developed tests in addition to the CDC, but they were not allowed to use them until they were approved by the FDA, and as I understand it, the FDA required that the test could not only detect SARS-COV2, but also SARS and MERS, which is an odd requirement because we don't have SARS or MERS in this country. Thus, none of the other tests were approved, and they could not be used.

Here is a website that lists the number of tests that have been done by various countries. Select "Country Data" to see the number of test performed per day in each country. https://www.finddx.org/covid-19/test-tracker /
By Feb. 25th S. Korea hit 8101 tests in one day, and by the end of the month, they were over 10,000 tests a day. The US commenced testing with 36 tests on January 23rd. The first time they managed 1000 tests in a day was March 4th. Only this week are they finally reaching the point where they can test all people with symptoms, nearly 2 months after their first test.

Here is the story of a guy at the U. of Washington who made his own test, and tried to get it approved:
https://www.gq.com/story/inside-americas-coronavirus-test...
First the FDA had red tape about how it had to be submitted. Then they declined it even for emergency use because they wanted him to test it against SARS and MERS. He applied to CDC to get samples of SARS and MERS, which was declined. Then the Association of Public Health labs pleaded to be allowed to make their own tests, and that also was denied.

U. of Washington actually started using his test on their own patients anyway, since no other tests were available, and eventually they found some SARS and MERS and were able to get the test approved. Once approved, they quickly ramped up to being able to do 1000 tests a day, and a few weeks later they are working towards 8,000 a day. They did in a week what it took CDC two months to do.

Last Edited: 3/17/2020 10:14:35 PM by L.C.


ďWe have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.Ē ― Epictetus

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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/18/2020 12:13:07 AM 
L.C. wrote:
L.C. wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
Lot's of misinformation about COVID-19. Here's a page on the CDC website that dispels some myths. Thought it might be of interest to those engaged in this discussion.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/symptoms-testin...

CDC has been way behind on their info. They seem more worried about stopping "stigma" than stopping the spread. According to the page you linked to, you are not to call them, even if you have all the symptoms, unless you have been in close contact with someone who has the disease, or you visited an area with "ongoing spread". So, I guess that means that if the clerk at McDonalds, or the cashier at Walmart, develops symptoms, they shouldn't bother calling because they aren't going to get tested. Apparently they need to get to the stage where they require hospitalization before they can be tested. Now, I suppose that if you consider the entire US to be areas of "ongoing spread", then they could be tested if they have symptoms.

I presume the reason the web site says this is because they didn't have the testing capacity to test very many people. Supposedly this week that will change.

Yes, the identifying traits of an established infection are a cough and a fever. Earlier, however, most people experience rhinitis, followed by an asymptiomatic stage where they are contagious that can last 4-9 days. You saw examples of that on the Diamond Princess. Some people said something along the lines of "I thought I had gotten a cold, and gotten over it quickly. When I tested positive, I couldn't believe it."

CDC does mention that it is possible that asymptiomatic spread is happening, but doesn't think it is a significant driver in the spread, and that we should focus on people with symptoms. That doesn't really match up with experiences in other countries, however. In China, they were able to control SARS, which didn't spread until you had symptoms, by quickly identifying and quarantining people with symptoms. That didn't work with COVID19, so they quarantined everyone. Here's an article on the subject in the US:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/14/health/coronavirus-asympto...

South Korea has been very successful in controlling it because they made the tests fast and free, and available to anyone. If someone has symptoms, they can get tested without having to prove they were in contact with someone who had it. If someone was in contact with someone who had it, they can get tested without symptoms. The result has been a tremendous number of negative tests, but also has been to catch a lot of cases very early, dramatically reducing the spread.

https://www.wionews.com/world/are-dormant-carriers-of-cov...
Another article showing disagreement with CDC's statement that "Some spread might be possible before people show symptoms; there have been reports of this occurring with this new coronavirus, but this is not thought to be the main way the virus spreads".

And, yet another article, this from the NY Times:
NY Times wrote:
Scientists tracking the spread of the coronavirus reported on Monday that, for every confirmed case, there are most likely another five to 10 people in the community with undetected infections. These often-milder cases are, on average, about half as infectious as confirmed ones, but are responsible for nearly 80 percent of new cases, according to the report, which was based on data from China....

So, they are saying that nearly 80% of new cases are passed from people with undetected cases, either very mild or asymptiomatic, which is in direct conflict with the CDC statement that "this is not thought to be the main way the virus spread".


ďWe have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.Ē ― Epictetus

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longtiimelurker
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/19/2020 4:41:30 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
allen wrote:
This is crazy. https://apple.news/AOnBnAnkGS9eAX-w4oDLVPg


He's using Redchicken math. You can take the kid out of Miami, but you can't the take the Miami out of the kid.


This aged pretty well.

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yamaha45701
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/19/2020 5:33:46 PM 
In regards to the slowness of Washington, DC to respond: NPR had a story about two weeks ago where a female doctor at North Carolina University expressed massive frustration at the roadblocks, run-arounds, and virtually being ignored. The University, along with a consortium of other Universities, was offering assistance to offer their resources for test development and other aid as needed. She said the response from the government was baffling. It is as if a team of monkeys was/is running things.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/19/2020 5:42:17 PM 
yamaha45701 wrote:
In regards to the slowness of Washington, DC to respond: NPR had a story about two weeks ago where a female doctor at North Carolina University expressed massive frustration at the roadblocks, run-arounds, and virtually being ignored. The University, along with a consortium of other Universities, was offering assistance to offer their resources for test development and other aid as needed. She said the response from the government was baffling. It is as if a team of monkeys was/is running things.


They're fast at some things. Namely dumping stock while reassuring the nation that the government had things under control: https://www.propublica.org/article/senator-dumped-up-to-1...
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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/19/2020 6:12:35 PM 
yamaha45701 wrote:
It is as if a team of monkeys was/is running things.


That's an insult to all monkeys.

Orangutans? Maybe. But not monkeys.
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greencat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/19/2020 6:38:08 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
yamaha45701 wrote:
In regards to the slowness of Washington, DC to respond: NPR had a story about two weeks ago where a female doctor at North Carolina University expressed massive frustration at the roadblocks, run-arounds, and virtually being ignored. The University, along with a consortium of other Universities, was offering assistance to offer their resources for test development and other aid as needed. She said the response from the government was baffling. It is as if a team of monkeys was/is running things.


They're fast at some things. Namely dumping stock while reassuring the nation that the government had things under control: https://www.propublica.org/article/senator-dumped-up-to-1...


#LockHimUp #LockHimUp #LockHimUp #LockHimUp
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/19/2020 10:44:55 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
yamaha45701 wrote:
In regards to the slowness of Washington, DC to respond: NPR had a story about two weeks ago where a female doctor at North Carolina University expressed massive frustration at the roadblocks, run-arounds, and virtually being ignored. The University, along with a consortium of other Universities, was offering assistance to offer their resources for test development and other aid as needed. She said the response from the government was baffling. It is as if a team of monkeys was/is running things.


They're fast at some things. Namely dumping stock while reassuring the nation that the government had things under control: https://www.propublica.org/article/senator-dumped-up-to-1...

You didn't need secret information. It was pretty obvious even back in January. The public info has been available since mid-January. Credit for the first post about it on BA goes to allen, back on 1/30. He's been on top of this a long time:
https://www.bobcatattack.com/messageboard/topic.asp?FromP...

And, if that wasn't enough of a shot across the bow, a day later there was the first game cancellation:
https://www.bobcatattack.com/messageboard/topic.asp?FromP...


ďWe have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.Ē ― Epictetus

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/19/2020 11:18:26 PM 
L.C. wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
yamaha45701 wrote:
In regards to the slowness of Washington, DC to respond: NPR had a story about two weeks ago where a female doctor at North Carolina University expressed massive frustration at the roadblocks, run-arounds, and virtually being ignored. The University, along with a consortium of other Universities, was offering assistance to offer their resources for test development and other aid as needed. She said the response from the government was baffling. It is as if a team of monkeys was/is running things.


They're fast at some things. Namely dumping stock while reassuring the nation that the government had things under control: https://www.propublica.org/article/senator-dumped-up-to-1...

You didn't need secret information. It was pretty obvious even back in January. The public info has been available since mid-January. Credit for the first post about it on BA goes to allen, back on 1/30. He's been on top of this a long time:
https://www.bobcatattack.com/messageboard/topic.asp?FromP...

And, if that wasn't enough of a shot across the bow, a day later there was the first game cancellation:


I don't understand your point.

Two Senators learned of what was likely to come and their response was, in one case, to sell hotel stock and in the other to buy stock in a teleconferencimg company.

And then for well over a month they continued to insist all was well despite their own financial transactions telling a different story.

Your stance is that they didn't necessarily base those sales on private information? It's just a coincidence they received those briefings, and they based this on public info? Yet publicly insisted this wasn't a big deal for a month afterwards? Why did they do that?

Last Edited: 3/19/2020 11:19:07 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/20/2020 9:03:23 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
L.C. wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
yamaha45701 wrote:
In regards to the slowness of Washington, DC to respond: NPR had a story about two weeks ago where a female doctor at North Carolina University expressed massive frustration at the roadblocks, run-arounds, and virtually being ignored. The University, along with a consortium of other Universities, was offering assistance to offer their resources for test development and other aid as needed. She said the response from the government was baffling. It is as if a team of monkeys was/is running things.


They're fast at some things. Namely dumping stock while reassuring the nation that the government had things under control: https://www.propublica.org/article/senator-dumped-up-to-1...

You didn't need secret information. It was pretty obvious even back in January. The public info has been available since mid-January. Credit for the first post about it on BA goes to allen, back on 1/30. He's been on top of this a long time:
https://www.bobcatattack.com/messageboard/topic.asp?FromP...

And, if that wasn't enough of a shot across the bow, a day later there was the first game cancellation:


I don't understand your point.

Two Senators learned of what was likely to come and their response was, in one case, to sell hotel stock and in the other to buy stock in a teleconferencimg company.

And then for well over a month they continued to insist all was well despite their own financial transactions telling a different story.

Your stance is that they didn't necessarily base those sales on private information? It's just a coincidence they received those briefings, and they based this on public info? Yet publicly insisted this wasn't a big deal for a month afterwards? Why did they do that?

I have no opinion on whether he broke any laws. He very well may have, but that's for others to decide.

My point was simply what I said. You didn't need secret information to see this coming. I first became aware of it on January 20th. It was obvious by January 27th, when it had spread to 17 other countries, that it was going to be a pandemic problem, since it was already clear that it had all the key traits that a virus needs in order to become one (it spreads fast, it spreads before symptoms, and it kills a fairly high number, but not so high as to limit the rate of spread). That's when I started tracking in on a daily basis, and adjusting my portfolio. I have been texting with OCF about it since January 30th. By January 31 you had the first impact on sports, the Miami-CMU game cancelled, and you had travel banned from China. There is no excuse why anyone would be unaware of it past that time. Sure, I get that there were people saying "the travel ban is excessive" and "it's all an over-reaction" but sometimes you have to think for yourself. The facts were all there, and they were publicly available. I seriously doubt that there was anything in those "secret briefings that was any more alarming than the information that was publicly available.



ďWe have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.Ē ― Epictetus

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/20/2020 10:59:12 AM 
L.C. wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
L.C. wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
yamaha45701 wrote:
In regards to the slowness of Washington, DC to respond: NPR had a story about two weeks ago where a female doctor at North Carolina University expressed massive frustration at the roadblocks, run-arounds, and virtually being ignored. The University, along with a consortium of other Universities, was offering assistance to offer their resources for test development and other aid as needed. She said the response from the government was baffling. It is as if a team of monkeys was/is running things.


They're fast at some things. Namely dumping stock while reassuring the nation that the government had things under control: https://www.propublica.org/article/senator-dumped-up-to-1...

You didn't need secret information. It was pretty obvious even back in January. The public info has been available since mid-January. Credit for the first post about it on BA goes to allen, back on 1/30. He's been on top of this a long time:
https://www.bobcatattack.com/messageboard/topic.asp?FromP...

And, if that wasn't enough of a shot across the bow, a day later there was the first game cancellation:


I don't understand your point.

Two Senators learned of what was likely to come and their response was, in one case, to sell hotel stock and in the other to buy stock in a teleconferencimg company.

And then for well over a month they continued to insist all was well despite their own financial transactions telling a different story.

Your stance is that they didn't necessarily base those sales on private information? It's just a coincidence they received those briefings, and they based this on public info? Yet publicly insisted this wasn't a big deal for a month afterwards? Why did they do that?

I have no opinion on whether he broke any laws. He very well may have, but that's for others to decide.

My point was simply what I said. You didn't need secret information to see this coming. I first became aware of it on January 20th. It was obvious by January 27th, when it had spread to 17 other countries, that it was going to be a pandemic problem, since it was already clear that it had all the key traits that a virus needs in order to become one (it spreads fast, it spreads before symptoms, and it kills a fairly high number, but not so high as to limit the rate of spread). That's when I started tracking in on a daily basis, and adjusting my portfolio. I have been texting with OCF about it since January 30th. By January 31 you had the first impact on sports, the Miami-CMU game cancelled, and you had travel banned from China. There is no excuse why anyone would be unaware of it past that time. Sure, I get that there were people saying "the travel ban is excessive" and "it's all an over-reaction" but sometimes you have to think for yourself. The facts were all there, and they were publicly available. I seriously doubt that there was anything in those "secret briefings that was any more alarming than the information that was publicly available.




I'm not doubting any of that. I'm pointing out that two Republican senators made financial transactions that displayed a level of concern about this that were inconsistent with the level of concern they and their party communicated to the American people.

Should Americans have been able to "think for themselves" and recognize the scope of this prior to when most did? Maybe so. Did the folks in charge make Americans doing so far less likely by consistently downplaying this threat? Sure did. And is it outrageous that some of them simultaneously made financial transactions to protect and even enrich themselves in the process? Sure is.

I take your point. But doing so begs a very significant question: if the scope of this was so obvious, why have we, as a country, failed so spectacularly in our response?

Last Edited: 3/20/2020 11:02:40 AM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/20/2020 12:20:29 PM 
I totally agree that we failed spectacularly as a country in preparing for this. I blame in as much as anything on the partisan divide in both politics and the media. Trump started out right, banning flights from China, for which he was attacked by the media and the other party. Then he downplayed the risk, for which he was attacked by the media and the other party. Whatever one party says is black, the other party says is white. Nowhere is there cooperation or teamwork. It is completely dysfunctional.

By contrast, my State has done it completely correctly. The Republican Governor and the Mayors of the major cities, both Republican and Democrats, met first, and agreed on a plan. They announced a consistent plan, and a single source for news, such that no one at any level is issuing contrary statements. Everything is coordinated and consistent, and it is a united front. We have only 2 cases of community spread so far, though I expect more after some students no doubt went to be infected on Spring Break, but our plan is already in place and implemented. I commend our Republican Governor, and I commend my Democrat Mayer. Both have done a fabulous job, and they have restored my faith that government does not have to be dysfunctional.


ďWe have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.Ē ― Epictetus

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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/20/2020 1:06:29 PM 
In other news:
1. Does Ibuprofen make it worse? The French Minister of Health says it does:
https://www.jpost.com/HEALTH-SCIENCE/French-health-minist...
but, there seems to be no scientific evidence behind it. I do know that I've read that Corticosteroids are contraindicated. In any case, Tylenol (acetaminophen) may be a better choice.

2. French Researcher posts positive results from using Chloroquine, a common anti-malarial drug:
https://www.connexionfrance.com/French-news/French-resear...
I'm not sure why this is news, though, as this news has been out awhile. Here's a Medcram youtube video from February 5th discussing this effective treatment:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfGpdFNHoqQ
And here is a previous publication on the therapy:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/32074550
Maybe it's time to use this as a standard treatment.

3. Can COVID19 cause fibrosis and permanent lung damage?:
Rumor debunkers say no, there is no permanent lung damage, see, e.g.:
https://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/claim-the-new-coronav...
Chinese research examined two unique cases, people who had lung surgery for other reasons, who they didn't know at the time had COVID19, and who both later died of COVID19. During the surgeries
Sufan Tian, et. al. wrote:
the lungs of both patients exhibited edema, proteinaceousexudate, focal reactive hyperplasia of pneumocytes with patchy inflammatory cellular infiltration, and multinucle-ated giant cells. Hyaline membranes were not prominent.Because both patients did not exhibit symptoms of pneumonia at the time of operation, these changes likely represent an early phase of the lung pathology of COVID-19pneumonia.

https://www.jto.org/article/S1556-0864(20)30132-5/pdf

So, lung changes were occurring even before symptoms appeared.

And, in Hong Kong, 1/4 of recovered patients were unable to do things they could do before COVID19 because of reduced lung function:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKEd7ayF06k

Last Edited: 3/22/2020 9:31:42 PM by L.C.


ďWe have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.Ē ― Epictetus

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Kevin Finnegan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/20/2020 1:10:26 PM 
L.C. wrote:
I totally agree that we failed spectacularly as a country in preparing for this. I blame in as much as anything on the partisan divide in both politics and the media. Trump started out right, banning flights from China, for which he was attacked by the media and the other party. Then he downplayed the risk, for which he was attacked by the media and the other party. Whatever one party says is black, the other party says is white. Nowhere is there cooperation or teamwork. It is completely dysfunctional.

By contrast, my State has done it completely correctly. The Republican Governor and the Mayors of the major cities, both Republican and Democrats, met first, and agreed on a plan. They announced a consistent plan, and a single source for news, such that no one at any level is issuing contrary statements. Everything is coordinated and consistent, and it is a united front. We have only 2 cases of community spread so far, though I expect more after some students no doubt went to be infected on Spring Break, but our plan is already in place and implemented. I commend our Republican Governor, and I commend my Democrat Mayer. Both have done a fabulous job, and they have restored my faith that government does not have to be dysfunctional.


Despite the rambling nature of his pressers, Andrew Cuomo in NY seems to be doing his best to make this non-partisan. He has spoken highly at times of the federal government.

There are some misconceptions that have certainly arisen from this. Two you mentioned, LC. President Trump did not early on ban flights to/from China. He has mentioned this and even talks about how he got quite a lot of flak from the Democrats for this. Neither of these points are true. He put travel restrictions on travel to China on Jan 31, but did not ban it. And, of record, no Democratic leaders argued against the restriction.

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/the-facts-on-trumps-tra... /





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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/20/2020 1:24:22 PM 
L.C. wrote:
I totally agree that we failed spectacularly as a country in preparing for this. I blame in as much as anything on the partisan divide in both politics and the media. Trump started out right, banning flights from China, for which he was attacked by the media and the other party. Then he downplayed the risk, for which he was attacked by the media and the other party. Whatever one party says is black, the other party says is white. Nowhere is there cooperation or teamwork. It is completely dysfunctional.


The fact that the opposition party and parts of the media are going to be critical of decisions is a given. It's the way the world works. If our leadership's incapable of leading because of those things, there is simply no argument to be made that they're up to the job they've been given. There are times when it makes perfect sense for a President to concern himself with media perception and the criticisms of his political opponents, but this isn't one of them.

The willingness to continue to make excuses for Trump at this point is a symptom of the very partisanship you're deriding. There's no argument to be made that he has handled this in an acceptable manner. Blame things like "partisanship" and "media" all you want, but the fact of the matter is that there are actual people who were elected to lead us, and they've failed to do so. Blue, Red, Purple. They've failed us.

In the other thread, you mentioned the importance of swabs and masks and the shortages of each. I agree completely. So why hasn't Trump used the powers he has to increase manufacturing? He signed the bill and has just been sitting on it without enacting the power. And as I type this, he's giving a press conferences in which he's referring the to the "Deep State Department", chastising reporters who ask "What do you say to Americans who are scared" and blaming his failures on others.

He's completely incompetent. It's bafflingly obvious. His press conference today shows a level of incompetence that nobody should be willing to support. Write this off as partisanship all you want, but is there anybody out there willing to argue that he's earned reelection?
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PhiTau74
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/20/2020 1:56:21 PM 
Dianne Feinstein dumped $6.4M of stock so you democrats can stick your politics up your ass where it belongs.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/20/2020 2:15:54 PM 
PhiTau74 wrote:
Dianne Feinstein dumped $6.4M of stock so you democrats can stick your politics up your ass where it belongs.


Or, we can put her in jail too. But cool attempt to both-sides this. Funny how calls to keep politics out of this always come from people who can't seem to defend the politicians they support but very clearly want to.

None of them deserve our support right now. They've failed us.

Last Edited: 3/20/2020 2:21:48 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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Buckeye to Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/20/2020 3:38:06 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
PhiTau74 wrote:
Dianne Feinstein dumped $6.4M of stock so you democrats can stick your politics up your ass where it belongs.


Or, we can put her in jail too. But cool attempt to both-sides this. Funny how calls to keep politics out of this always come from people who can't seem to defend the politicians they support but very clearly want to.

None of them deserve our support right now. They've failed us.


I'm cool lockin em all up. Frankly if this ends up in Siberia I could careless. At this point, audit the living heck out of every senator and congressman for this blatant wrongdoing by them. It's not as bad as what the Chinese gov't has done, but this is pretty bad.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/20/2020 4:52:30 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
...

The willingness to continue to make excuses for Trump at this point is a symptom of the very partisanship you're deriding. There's no argument to be made that he has handled this in an acceptable manner. Blame things like "partisanship" and "media" all you want, but the fact of the matter is that there are actual people who were elected to lead us, and they've failed to do so. Blue, Red, Purple. They've failed us. ..

For the record, I agree that they have all failed us. I'm fine if they lock up anyone who has broken any laws, and decline to elect any and all of the existing people in office. I'm not defending any of them. Sadly, I doubt their replacements will be any better.

I am, however, proud of my state and local officials from both parties, who are dealing with this exceptionally professionally.


ďWe have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.Ē ― Epictetus

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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/20/2020 4:56:58 PM 
My Senator should resign. Period. The others that profited off of their dumping or buying of stocks should also resign. Not an issue of the jersey they wear. They chose to protect themselves. In Burr's case it is obvious .

Key dates:
January 24 ó senators received a private briefing from Dr. Anthony Fauci and CDC officials outlining the danger of the virus. Continues to receive private senate information.
Feb. 7 Burr releases op-ed that he co-authored with another senator, in which he assured the public that "the United States today is better prepared than ever before to face emerging public health threats, like the coronavirus (not the message delivered by Fauci). Continues to receive private senate information.
Jan. 31, Feb. 4 and Feb. 13 sells $1.7 million in stock - including hotel stock. Twice as much transacted as he has engaged in the last 2 years combined - across his complete portfolio.
Feb. 27 in meeting with donors likens the potential of the coronavirus to the 1918 Spanish flu.
March 19 - his actions are reported. His office's response: "Senator Burr filed a financial disclosure form for personal transactions made several weeks before the U.S. and financial markets showed signs of volatility due to the growing coronavirus outbreak," Yea - because he knew.

What's his out? Ask the Senate Ethics chair to review. In the last two years, the Ethics committee has had 389 submissions for review - they found issue with ZERO - Ethics Committee is a safe haven and Burr knows it.
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JSF
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/20/2020 6:00:05 PM 
PhiTau74 wrote:
Dianne Feinstein dumped $6.4M of stock so you democrats can stick your politics up your ass where it belongs.


We should not care because a Democrat did it? Is that what you're saying?


"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

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allen
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/20/2020 6:52:53 PM 
JSF wrote:
PhiTau74 wrote:
Dianne Feinstein dumped $6.4M of stock so you democrats can stick your politics up your ass where it belongs.


We should not care because a Democrat did it? Is that what you're saying?


They are both guilty, Feinstein is just as bad as the 4 republicans.


Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/20/2020 7:22:32 PM 
L.C. wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
L.C. wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
yamaha45701 wrote:
In regards to the slowness of Washington, DC to respond: NPR had a story about two weeks ago where a female doctor at North Carolina University expressed massive frustration at the roadblocks, run-arounds, and virtually being ignored. The University, along with a consortium of other Universities, was offering assistance to offer their resources for test development and other aid as needed. She said the response from the government was baffling. It is as if a team of monkeys was/is running things.


They're fast at some things. Namely dumping stock while reassuring the nation that the government had things under control: https://www.propublica.org/article/senator-dumped-up-to-1...

You didn't need secret information. It was pretty obvious even back in January. The public info has been available since mid-January. Credit for the first post about it on BA goes to allen, back on 1/30. He's been on top of this a long time:
https://www.bobcatattack.com/messageboard/topic.asp?FromP...

And, if that wasn't enough of a shot across the bow, a day later there was the first game cancellation:


I don't understand your point.

Two Senators learned of what was likely to come and their response was, in one case, to sell hotel stock and in the other to buy stock in a teleconferencimg company.

And then for well over a month they continued to insist all was well despite their own financial transactions telling a different story.

Your stance is that they didn't necessarily base those sales on private information? It's just a coincidence they received those briefings, and they based this on public info? Yet publicly insisted this wasn't a big deal for a month afterwards? Why did they do that?

I have no opinion on whether he broke any laws. He very well may have, but that's for others to decide.

My point was simply what I said. You didn't need secret information to see this coming. I first became aware of it on January 20th. It was obvious by January 27th, when it had spread to 17 other countries, that it was going to be a pandemic problem, since it was already clear that it had all the key traits that a virus needs in order to become one (it spreads fast, it spreads before symptoms, and it kills a fairly high number, but not so high as to limit the rate of spread). That's when I started tracking in on a daily basis, and adjusting my portfolio. I have been texting with OCF about it since January 30th. By January 31 you had the first impact on sports, the Miami-CMU game cancelled, and you had travel banned from China. There is no excuse why anyone would be unaware of it past that time. Sure, I get that there were people saying "the travel ban is excessive" and "it's all an over-reaction" but sometimes you have to think for yourself. The facts were all there, and they were publicly available. I seriously doubt that there was anything in those "secret briefings that was any more alarming than the information that was publicly available.




no laws were broken, Congress several years ago made this type of thing legal for them (you or I tried that, well that is a different story). Ethical??? Well when did members of Congress or the Senate have ethics?
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/20/2020 7:25:15 PM 
PhiTau74 wrote:
Dianne Feinstein dumped $6.4M of stock so you democrats can stick your politics up your ass where it belongs.


This is not a democrat of a republican issue, this is an issue of ethics and trust. NONE of these folks were honest or up front. Now if one of them dumped their stocks and did so with a pubic statement of their feelings, that would be a bit difference, but also bring on another issue of influencing. Bottom line, crooks and criminals have not party affliation.
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