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Topic:  RE: How much is Trevor Lawrence worth?

Topic:  RE: How much is Trevor Lawrence worth?
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: How much is Trevor Lawrence worth?
   Posted: 5/6/2020 3:16:28 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:


We're saying the same thing, just reaching a different conclusion. I don't think it's a problem when somebody gets paid money for services.


My issue isn't with someone being paid for their services.

The problem,big schools, with big boosters, will willing to spend,whether
justifiable from a marketing stand point or not,whatever it takes to
get players to transfer to their program.

Basically,college free agency,without any controls.




Yeah, I understand that. I just don't understand why I'm supposed to view player movement as inherently bad. I asked this of OCF above, too: what's the moral code that insists that's a bad thing based on? Competitive advantage? Tradition?


If we are running a pro sport franchise, that's a whole 'nother story. This is supposed to be a collegiate sport. This takes all the remaining facade away. Another unintended consequence will be an IRS ruling taking away the tax-exempt status of an institution running a pro football or basketball team. Not all progress is really progress. Look at Prohibition.


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: How much is Trevor Lawrence worth?
   Posted: 5/6/2020 3:34:15 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:


If we are running a pro sport franchise, that's a whole 'nother story. This is supposed to be a collegiate sport. This takes all the remaining facade away. Another unintended consequence will be an IRS ruling taking away the tax-exempt status of an institution running a pro football or basketball team. Not all progress is really progress. Look at Prohibition.


If your stance is that it's important to maintain something you yourself describe as a "facade", it says a lot.

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: How much is Trevor Lawrence worth?
   Posted: 5/6/2020 3:37:08 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:


Player movement isn't inherently bad.
Its the reasoning behind it.

In this case,it looks a lot like bribery.



In what sense? Is it any different than if I accept a higher salary to move to a different company?
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How much is Trevor Lawrence worth?
   Posted: 5/6/2020 4:11:02 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:


Player movement isn't inherently bad.
Its the reasoning behind it.

In this case,it looks a lot like bribery.



In what sense? Is it any different than if I accept a higher salary to move to a different company?


If we were talking about private companies no.

If we're talking about bribing a kid to transfer from one academic institution to another,in my opinion,that is very different.


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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: How much is Trevor Lawrence worth?
   Posted: 5/6/2020 4:13:26 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:


If we were talking about private companies no.

If we're talking about bribing a kid to transfer from one academic institution to another,in my opinion,that is very different.




Why? And why do you consider it bribery if somebody makes a financial decision that they feel is best for them?
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How much is Trevor Lawrence worth?
   Posted: 5/6/2020 4:22:52 PM 
I just take comfort in the fact that 16-19 year old kids and their families will be so well equipped in how to navigate this.

And of course this opens a huge door for professional mangers that will latch on and suck folks dry. This is more about feeding vultures than it is nurturing kids.

Last Edited: 5/6/2020 4:24:23 PM by BillyTheCat

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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How much is Trevor Lawrence worth?
   Posted: 5/6/2020 4:23:29 PM 
Ad agencies have always hired personnel away from other firms with the understanding they could bring clients with them (or attract like clients) and thus increase billings and profits. Major college football programs are a business looking to maximize profits.

and remember. the players we are talking about have been financially well compensated while in school (and in basketball prior playing AAU ball) for decades. Or do we think Rick Pitino invented this stuff.

Last Edited: 5/6/2020 4:27:54 PM by cc-cat

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: How much is Trevor Lawrence worth?
   Posted: 5/6/2020 5:07:26 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
I just take comfort in the fact that 16-19 year old kids and their families will be so well equipped in how to navigate this.

And of course this opens a huge door for professional mangers that will latch on and suck folks dry. This is more about feeding vultures than it is nurturing kids.


If only these kids were affiliated with some sort of educational institution that might be able to teach them how to navigate things like accounting, marketing, and contract law.


But I do enjoy the whole angle of "we're trying to protect these poor kids by keeping money away from them." You get points for creativity, but not sure that argument's gonna hold up to much scrutiny.

Last Edited: 5/6/2020 5:09:38 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How much is Trevor Lawrence worth?
   Posted: 5/6/2020 8:47:57 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
I just take comfort in the fact that 16-19 year old kids and their families will be so well equipped in how to navigate this.

And of course this opens a huge door for professional mangers that will latch on and suck folks dry. This is more about feeding vultures than it is nurturing kids.


If only these kids were affiliated with some sort of educational institution that might be able to teach them how to navigate things like accounting, marketing, and contract law.


But I do enjoy the whole angle of "we're trying to protect these poor kids by keeping money away from them." You get points for creativity, but not sure that argument's gonna hold up to much scrutiny.


Schools have done a great job teaching these kids finances in the past, why so many are broke. And those classes going to fit into their rec studies majors?
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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: How much is Trevor Lawrence worth?
   Posted: 5/6/2020 9:59:32 PM 
Another long thread involving BLSS. Nothing wrong with that as I sometimes (not always) agree with his views. But BLSS should realize he doeesn't have to use the quote boxes. We already read what he is re-posting and re-posting and re-posting . . .

Quote box are not necessary!

Carry on.
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How much is Trevor Lawrence worth?
   Posted: 5/7/2020 6:40:33 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:


Why? And why do you consider it bribery if somebody makes a financial decision that they feel is best for them?


Bribe:a sum of money or something valuable that one person offers
or gives to another in order to persuade him or her to do something.

(Collins English Dictionary)
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How much is Trevor Lawrence worth?
   Posted: 5/7/2020 8:36:40 AM 
With our industrial base and business base we may as well move to DII as no way we will be able to compete on the recruiting trail when earning power gets thrown into the mix.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: How much is Trevor Lawrence worth?
   Posted: 5/7/2020 8:43:04 AM 
bobcatsquared wrote:
Another long thread involving BLSS. Nothing wrong with that as I sometimes (not always) agree with his views. But BLSS should realize he doeesn't have to use the quote boxes. We already read what he is re-posting and re-posting and re-posting . . .

Quote box are not necessary!

Carry on.


I use quote boxes when I'm replying to somebody or something in particular. Like in this post. Where I'm replying to something you said. You might call it, oh, I dunno, a quote.

If I didn't use quote boxes, I'd be replying three posts later without context. That's what they're for.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: How much is Trevor Lawrence worth?
   Posted: 5/7/2020 8:45:13 AM 
rpbobcat wrote:

Bribe:a sum of money or something valuable that one person offers
or gives to another in order to persuade him or her to do something.

(Collins English Dictionary)


The word bribe almost always implies dishonesty or illegal behavior. Is that not how you're using it?

Here's the definition from Google:

"To persuade (someone) to act in one's favor, typically illegally or dishonestly, by a gift of money or other inducement."

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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How much is Trevor Lawrence worth?
   Posted: 5/7/2020 9:11:55 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:

Bribe:a sum of money or something valuable that one person offers
or gives to another in order to persuade him or her to do something.

(Collins English Dictionary)


The word bribe almost always implies dishonesty or illegal behavior. Is that not how you're using it?

Here's the definition from Google:

"To persuade (someone) to act in one's favor, typically illegally or dishonestly, by a gift of money or other inducement."


That's why I didn't use google.

I looked at a number of definitions of "bribe".

The one you used defines it in a legal context.
Similar to Black's Law Dictionary.

Collins,Cambridge and Webster define it more "generally".


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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: How much is Trevor Lawrence worth?
   Posted: 5/7/2020 9:13:12 AM 
rpbobcat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:

Bribe:a sum of money or something valuable that one person offers
or gives to another in order to persuade him or her to do something.

(Collins English Dictionary)


The word bribe almost always implies dishonesty or illegal behavior. Is that not how you're using it?

Here's the definition from Google:

"To persuade (someone) to act in one's favor, typically illegally or dishonestly, by a gift of money or other inducement."


That's why I didn't use google.

I looked at a number of definitions of "bribe".

The one you used defines it in a legal context.
Similar to Black's Law Dictionary.

Collins,Cambridge and Webster define it more "generally".




Got it, so you're not implying anything negative by referring to this as a bribe? I'm not sure I understand your point, if that's the case.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How much is Trevor Lawrence worth?
   Posted: 5/7/2020 9:24:56 AM 
I would consider all of this as legal bribes, that also opens the door for tons of nefarious activities. You cannot legislate morality.
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: How much is Trevor Lawrence worth?
   Posted: 5/7/2020 9:43:07 AM 
Think about this for a moment. Joe Average Student pays x dollars in fees to pay for an athletic program on top of his tuition and room and board. Star Athlete pays none of that, gets a full cost of attendance stipend and can now make money showing up at a car dealership four times a year. This could be the end of student fees going to athletics.
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How much is Trevor Lawrence worth?
   Posted: 5/7/2020 9:55:07 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:


Got it, so you're not implying anything negative by referring to this as a bribe? I'm not sure I understand your point, if that's the case.


The definition I used makes it clear that a bribe is a negative act.

It just may not be illegal.


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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: How much is Trevor Lawrence worth?
   Posted: 5/7/2020 10:42:19 AM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
I just take comfort in the fact that 16-19 year old kids and their families will be so well equipped in how to navigate this.

And of course this opens a huge door for professional mangers that will latch on and suck folks dry. This is more about feeding vultures than it is nurturing kids.


Bingo!

I think this will also enhance the one-and-done phenomena and less kids will end up with an education, which is theoretical why institutions of higher education exist. Speaking just theoretically, of course! ;-)


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: How much is Trevor Lawrence worth?
   Posted: 5/7/2020 12:25:20 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:


The definition I used makes it clear that a bribe is a negative act.

It just may not be illegal.




Okay, cool. Initially I asked you why you feel it's inherently negative that somebody makes more money by transferring to Rutgers or wherever. I'm wondering what's negative about it.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: How much is Trevor Lawrence worth?
   Posted: 5/7/2020 12:27:36 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:

Bingo!

I think this will also enhance the one-and-done phenomena and less kids will end up with an education, which is theoretical why institutions of higher education exist. Speaking just theoretically, of course! ;-)


Couldn't you make a case that giving kids the ability to earn money while in school creates less incentive to leave for the pros? Reducing the financial burden around education may well lead to more student athletes completing school, especially kids on the margins who are fringe pro prospects. If they can support themselves financially AND get an education, isn't that the best case?
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: How much is Trevor Lawrence worth?
   Posted: 5/7/2020 2:59:06 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:

Bingo!

I think this will also enhance the one-and-done phenomena and less kids will end up with an education, which is theoretical why institutions of higher education exist. Speaking just theoretically, of course! ;-)


Couldn't you make a case that giving kids the ability to earn money while in school creates less incentive to leave for the pros? Reducing the financial burden around education may well lead to more student athletes completing school, especially kids on the margins who are fringe pro prospects. If they can support themselves financially AND get an education, isn't that the best case?


You could make that argument, but I don't think it's what would actually happen. It reminds me of the arguments made to support a "yes" vote on the Ohio Lottery: This will just allow the state to make money from the gambling that's already taking place. It'll not increase the amount of gambling. Well, that's not actually what happened. Now the state actually advertises to encourage folks to gamble. This was not envisioned by many folks who voted "yes," on the lottery back in the early 1970s. Truth in packaging, I left that line blank, because I didn't know whether to believe those arguments, or to believe those who predicted an increase in gambling, and hence an increase in poverty. Knowing what I know now, I would have voted against a state lottery.

Last Edited: 5/7/2020 11:55:28 PM by OhioCatFan


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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giacomo
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  Message Not Read  RE: How much is Trevor Lawrence worth?
   Posted: 5/8/2020 7:50:01 AM 
I don’t see anything wrong with any kid making as much money as he can. Coaches move around all the time for bigger money. If a kid tending bar at Cat’s Den was offered more money at Swanky’s, we think nothing of it. You and I do it all the time. Why not these kids?
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: How much is Trevor Lawrence worth?
   Posted: 5/8/2020 9:22:12 AM 
giacomo wrote:
I don’t see anything wrong with any kid making as much money as he can. Coaches move around all the time for bigger money. If a kid tending bar at Cat’s Den was offered more money at Swanky’s, we think nothing of it. You and I do it all the time. Why not these kids?


Because,unlike a kid tending bar,these kids are getting a free college education.

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