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Topic:  Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?

Topic:  Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
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allen
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  Message Not Read  Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/13/2020 2:57:37 PM 
This is crazy. https://apple.news/AOnBnAnkGS9eAX-w4oDLVPg


Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

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OhioCatFan
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Location: Athens, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/13/2020 3:07:04 PM 
allen wrote:
This is crazy. https://apple.news/AOnBnAnkGS9eAX-w4oDLVPg


He's using Redchicken math. You can take the kid out of Miami, but you can't the take the Miami out of the kid.


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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allen
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/13/2020 3:55:23 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
allen wrote:
This is crazy. https://apple.news/AOnBnAnkGS9eAX-w4oDLVPg


He's using Redchicken math. You can take the kid out of Miami, but you can't the take the Miami out of the kid.


I hope so, they are ramping up test, so we will see, be safe.


Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

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Recovering Journalist
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/13/2020 4:32:50 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
allen wrote:
This is crazy. https://apple.news/AOnBnAnkGS9eAX-w4oDLVPg


He's using Redchicken math. You can take the kid out of Miami, but you can't the take the Miami out of the kid.


It's not DeWine's math. Officials nationwide are not shutting things down for fun. This is a true crisis.

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/487329-ohio-health-...
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OhioCatFan
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Location: Athens, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/13/2020 5:06:49 PM 
Recovering Journalist wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
allen wrote:
This is crazy. https://apple.news/AOnBnAnkGS9eAX-w4oDLVPg


He's using Redchicken math. You can take the kid out of Miami, but you can't the take the Miami out of the kid.


It's not DeWine's math. Officials nationwide are not shutting things down for fun. This is a true crisis.

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/487329-ohio-health-...


100,000 cases in Ohio? That's Redchicken math at this point. It might be a projection about what to expect in the future, based on some modeling, but that's not what his spokeslady said. They've got to be more careful with their language. The most recent figures from the CDC show 1,629 confirmed cases in whole U.S. Obviously, there are more actual cases than the confirmed cases, but the magnitude of this reckless statement is staggering.

The key statement down several graphs was: "She added that the slow rollout of testing means the state does not have good verified numbers to know for sure."

Lots of folks won't read that far, and will just see the headline. That feeds hysteria and panic. At this juncture, you want to give verified facts in a no-nonsense manner. It's a serious situation, but you don't want to give people the impression that things are spiraling out of control when they are not. Again, things are dicey now, and it could get worse before it gets better, but as FDR said, fear of fear itself is something we should avoid when possible.

Last Edited: 3/13/2020 5:37:44 PM by OhioCatFan


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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allen
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/13/2020 5:55:06 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
Recovering Journalist wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
allen wrote:
This is crazy. https://apple.news/AOnBnAnkGS9eAX-w4oDLVPg


He's using Redchicken math. You can take the kid out of Miami, but you can't the take the Miami out of the kid.


It's not DeWine's math. Officials nationwide are not shutting things down for fun. This is a true crisis.

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/487329-ohio-health-...


100,000 cases in Ohio? That's Redchicken math at this point. It might be a projection about what to expect in the future, based on some modeling, but that's not what his spokeslady said. They've got to be more careful with their language. The most recent figures from the CDC show 1,629 confirmed cases in whole U.S. Obviously, there are more actual cases than the confirmed cases, but the magnitude of this reckless statement is staggering.

The key statement down several graphs was: "She added that the slow rollout of testing means the state does not have good verified numbers to know for sure."

Lots of folks won't read that far, and will just see the headline. That feeds hysteria and panic. At this juncture, you want to give verified facts in a no-nonsense manner. It's a serious situation, but you don't want to give people the impression that things are spiraling out of control when they are not. Again, things are dicey now, and it could get worse before it gets better, but as FDR said, fear of fear itself is something we should avoid when possible.


The testing will reveal it, the cdc tested 77 people this week, today he promised to do much more and we will see soon, I pray that it is only in the hundreds


Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes

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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/13/2020 6:29:02 PM 
allen wrote:
This is crazy. https://apple.news/AOnBnAnkGS9eAX-w4oDLVPg


If there are 100,000, using the 6 day doubling factor and working backwords, that means there were over 3000 cases on February 12.

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/13/2020 6:40:32 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:

100,000 cases in Ohio? That's Redchicken math at this point. It might be a projection about what to expect in the future, based on some modeling, but that's not what his spokeslady said. They've got to be more careful with their language. The most recent figures from the CDC show 1,629 confirmed cases in whole U.S. Obviously, there are more actual cases than the confirmed cases, but the magnitude of this reckless statement is staggering.


The key statement down several graphs was: "She added that the slow rollout of testing means the state does not have good verified numbers to know for sure."


I'm not sure I understand what's so reckless about it. Here's the entire statement:

"We know now, just the fact of community spread, says that at least 1 percent, at the very least, 1 percent of our population is carrying this virus in Ohio today," Acton said. "We have 11.7 million people. So the math is over 100,000. So that just gives you a sense of how this virus spreads and is spreading quickly."

She added that the slow rollout of testing means the state does not have good verified numbers to know for sure."

Many people carry this virus without showing symptoms. The science certainly backs her up.

Isn't it equally reckless to continue only reporting confirmed cases when testing infrastructure hasn't been able to match demand? What's the Ohio Department of Health for if not to try and provide insight into public health crises?

I mean, it's not nearly as reckless as a half dozen Trump administration statements, right? We were told this was under control and would be down to 0 cases a few weeks back. What's more reckless, the person making baseless statements for political reasons or the Ohio Health official providing the public with their estimate of current carriers?

Last Edited: 3/13/2020 6:40:52 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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Buckeye to Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/13/2020 9:31:19 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:

100,000 cases in Ohio? That's Redchicken math at this point. It might be a projection about what to expect in the future, based on some modeling, but that's not what his spokeslady said. They've got to be more careful with their language. The most recent figures from the CDC show 1,629 confirmed cases in whole U.S. Obviously, there are more actual cases than the confirmed cases, but the magnitude of this reckless statement is staggering.


The key statement down several graphs was: "She added that the slow rollout of testing means the state does not have good verified numbers to know for sure."


I'm not sure I understand what's so reckless about it. Here's the entire statement:

"We know now, just the fact of community spread, says that at least 1 percent, at the very least, 1 percent of our population is carrying this virus in Ohio today," Acton said. "We have 11.7 million people. So the math is over 100,000. So that just gives you a sense of how this virus spreads and is spreading quickly."

She added that the slow rollout of testing means the state does not have good verified numbers to know for sure."

Many people carry this virus without showing symptoms. The science certainly backs her up.

Isn't it equally reckless to continue only reporting confirmed cases when testing infrastructure hasn't been able to match demand? What's the Ohio Department of Health for if not to try and provide insight into public health crises?

I mean, it's not nearly as reckless as a half dozen Trump administration statements, right? We were told this was under control and would be down to 0 cases a few weeks back. What's more reckless, the person making baseless statements for political reasons or the Ohio Health official providing the public with their estimate of current carriers?


It was my understanding there wouldn't be math......

They did not need to throw a number on the board for blind faith to see if it sticks. If that many people had it, then why aren't there 4,000 dead Ohioans?

In the words of Sweet Lou, I'm agitated

Last Edited: 3/13/2020 9:34:22 PM by Buckeye to Bobcat

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JSF
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/13/2020 10:11:51 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
100,000 cases in Ohio? That's Redchicken math at this point. It might be a projection about what to expect in the future, based on some modeling, but that's not what his spokeslady said. They've got to be more careful with their language. The most recent figures from the CDC show 1,629 confirmed cases in whole U.S. Obviously, there are more actual cases than the confirmed cases, but the magnitude of this reckless statement is staggering.

The key statement down several graphs was: "She added that the slow rollout of testing means the state does not have good verified numbers to know for sure."

Lots of folks won't read that far, and will just see the headline. That feeds hysteria and panic. At this juncture, you want to give verified facts in a no-nonsense manner. It's a serious situation, but you don't want to give people the impression that things are spiraling out of control when they are not. Again, things are dicey now, and it could get worse before it gets better, but as FDR said, fear of fear itself is something we should avoid when possible.


They know what they're talking about and you don't. Stop being irresponsible and undermining the experts.


"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/13/2020 11:01:38 PM 
JSF wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
100,000 cases in Ohio? That's Redchicken math at this point. It might be a projection about what to expect in the future, based on some modeling, but that's not what his spokeslady said. They've got to be more careful with their language. The most recent figures from the CDC show 1,629 confirmed cases in whole U.S. Obviously, there are more actual cases than the confirmed cases, but the magnitude of this reckless statement is staggering.

The key statement down several graphs was: "She added that the slow rollout of testing means the state does not have good verified numbers to know for sure."

Lots of folks won't read that far, and will just see the headline. That feeds hysteria and panic. At this juncture, you want to give verified facts in a no-nonsense manner. It's a serious situation, but you don't want to give people the impression that things are spiraling out of control when they are not. Again, things are dicey now, and it could get worse before it gets better, but as FDR said, fear of fear itself is something we should avoid when possible.


They know what they're talking about and you don't. Stop being irresponsible and undermining the experts.


Then why did she apologize later? She said she was tired and didnít say what she had intended. You, Sir, donít know nearly as much as you think you do on a multitude of topics. Your high-handed know it all attitude is wearing a bit thin.


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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MonroeClassmate
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/13/2020 11:23:59 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
JSF wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
100,000 cases in Ohio? That's Redchicken math at this point. It might be a projection about what to expect in the future, based on some modeling, but that's not what his spokeslady said. They've got to be more careful with their language. The most recent figures from the CDC show 1,629 confirmed cases in whole U.S. Obviously, there are more actual cases than the confirmed cases, but the magnitude of this reckless statement is staggering.

The key statement down several graphs was: "She added that the slow rollout of testing means the state does not have good verified numbers to know for sure."

Lots of folks won't read that far, and will just see the headline. That feeds hysteria and panic. At this juncture, you want to give verified facts in a no-nonsense manner. It's a serious situation, but you don't want to give people the impression that things are spiraling out of control when they are not. Again, things are dicey now, and it could get worse before it gets better, but as FDR said, fear of fear itself is something we should avoid when possible.


They know what they're talking about and you don't. Stop being irresponsible and undermining the experts.


Then why did she apologize later? She said she was tired and didnít say what she had intended. You, Sir, donít know nearly as much as you think you do on a multitude of topics. Your high-handed know it all attitude is wearing a bit thin.


Man, there you go again, doubting the experts now doubting the experts on BA. I am ďjust guestimatingĒ that youíll get both barrels from a few other of the experts on here.
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GraffZ06
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Location: Dayton, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/14/2020 12:15:22 AM 
JSF wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
100,000 cases in Ohio? That's Redchicken math at this point. It might be a projection about what to expect in the future, based on some modeling, but that's not what his spokeslady said. They've got to be more careful with their language. The most recent figures from the CDC show 1,629 confirmed cases in whole U.S. Obviously, there are more actual cases than the confirmed cases, but the magnitude of this reckless statement is staggering.

The key statement down several graphs was: "She added that the slow rollout of testing means the state does not have good verified numbers to know for sure."

Lots of folks won't read that far, and will just see the headline. That feeds hysteria and panic. At this juncture, you want to give verified facts in a no-nonsense manner. It's a serious situation, but you don't want to give people the impression that things are spiraling out of control when they are not. Again, things are dicey now, and it could get worse before it gets better, but as FDR said, fear of fear itself is something we should avoid when possible.


They know what they're talking about and you don't. Stop being irresponsible and undermining the experts.


Are these the same experts who told if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor? How about the experts who told us you have to pass the bill to know what's in the bill? No? My bad, maybe it's the experts who said if we took the 500 million Bloomberg spent on his campaign and instead gave it away, every person would get $1.5 million.

Yeah these people are geniuses. I work for the federal government. Placing your faith in it - ESPECIALLY in times like these - is a foolhardy exercise.

DeWhiner claiming 100k people unwittingly are walking around with this virus is flat out irresponsible. If that math is true - in 40 days more people in Ohio will have this than there are people in the state.

If that math is true, and we believe the mortality rate is 3% (which is exaggerated and untrue based on not knowing the actual # of infections, and HEAVILY skewed toward elderly, but let's give them the benefit of the doubt) then that means 3000 of those 100k Ohioans are going to die. That's more people dead...in Ohio alone....then have this virus in the entire country.

If that math is true, then Ohio alone has 250 times more people infected than all of Italy (which has ~6x the population of Ohio).

This is a really nasty bug. It can spread really easily. It is serious. Over-reactions like this just breed panic and make things worse. It is NOT helping. This is why there isn't any toilet paper on a shelf ANYWHERE.

I'll tell you this, the incubation period before showing signs of sickness is estimated at 5 days. Today is Friday. If by next Tuesday Ohio isn't reporting OVER 100k people with the virus - DeWhiner should be fired, and possibly put in jail for inciting panic.

Or if he's right. Well then....we're all screwed and it doesn't matter anyway.

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Buckeye to Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/14/2020 12:34:59 AM 
GraffZ06 wrote:
JSF wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
100,000 cases in Ohio? That's Redchicken math at this point. It might be a projection about what to expect in the future, based on some modeling, but that's not what his spokeslady said. They've got to be more careful with their language. The most recent figures from the CDC show 1,629 confirmed cases in whole U.S. Obviously, there are more actual cases than the confirmed cases, but the magnitude of this reckless statement is staggering.

The key statement down several graphs was: "She added that the slow rollout of testing means the state does not have good verified numbers to know for sure."

Lots of folks won't read that far, and will just see the headline. That feeds hysteria and panic. At this juncture, you want to give verified facts in a no-nonsense manner. It's a serious situation, but you don't want to give people the impression that things are spiraling out of control when they are not. Again, things are dicey now, and it could get worse before it gets better, but as FDR said, fear of fear itself is something we should avoid when possible.


They know what they're talking about and you don't. Stop being irresponsible and undermining the experts.


Are these the same experts who told if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor? How about the experts who told us you have to pass the bill to know what's in the bill? No? My bad, maybe it's the experts who said if we took the 500 million Bloomberg spent on his campaign and instead gave it away, every person would get $1.5 million.

Yeah these people are geniuses. I work for the federal government. Placing your faith in it - ESPECIALLY in times like these - is a foolhardy exercise.

DeWhiner claiming 100k people unwittingly are walking around with this virus is flat out irresponsible. If that math is true - in 40 days more people in Ohio will have this than there are people in the state.

If that math is true, and we believe the mortality rate is 3% (which is exaggerated and untrue based on not knowing the actual # of infections, and HEAVILY skewed toward elderly, but let's give them the benefit of the doubt) then that means 3000 of those 100k Ohioans are going to die. That's more people dead...in Ohio alone....then have this virus in the entire country.

If that math is true, then Ohio alone has 250 times more people infected than all of Italy (which has ~6x the population of Ohio).

This is a really nasty bug. It can spread really easily. It is serious. Over-reactions like this just breed panic and make things worse. It is NOT helping. This is why there isn't any toilet paper on a shelf ANYWHERE.

I'll tell you this, the incubation period before showing signs of sickness is estimated at 5 days. Today is Friday. If by next Tuesday Ohio isn't reporting OVER 100k people with the virus - DeWhiner should be fired, and possibly put in jail for inciting panic.

Or if he's right. Well then....we're all screwed and it doesn't matter anyway.



+1

If we do not even come close to 100K people, I am down to impeach Dewine and hope our state would get rid of him. If he's right, hats off to him. Otherwise, no way in h e double hockey sticks does this sniff 100k in Ohio
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mf279801
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/14/2020 1:58:18 AM 
Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:

100,000 cases in Ohio? That's Redchicken math at this point. It might be a projection about what to expect in the future, based on some modeling, but that's not what his spokeslady said. They've got to be more careful with their language. The most recent figures from the CDC show 1,629 confirmed cases in whole U.S. Obviously, there are more actual cases than the confirmed cases, but the magnitude of this reckless statement is staggering.


The key statement down several graphs was: "She added that the slow rollout of testing means the state does not have good verified numbers to know for sure."


I'm not sure I understand what's so reckless about it. Here's the entire statement:

"We know now, just the fact of community spread, says that at least 1 percent, at the very least, 1 percent of our population is carrying this virus in Ohio today," Acton said. "We have 11.7 million people. So the math is over 100,000. So that just gives you a sense of how this virus spreads and is spreading quickly."

She added that the slow rollout of testing means the state does not have good verified numbers to know for sure."

Many people carry this virus without showing symptoms. The science certainly backs her up.

Isn't it equally reckless to continue only reporting confirmed cases when testing infrastructure hasn't been able to match demand? What's the Ohio Department of Health for if not to try and provide insight into public health crises?

I mean, it's not nearly as reckless as a half dozen Trump administration statements, right? We were told this was under control and would be down to 0 cases a few weeks back. What's more reckless, the person making baseless statements for political reasons or the Ohio Health official providing the public with their estimate of current carriers?


It was my understanding there wouldn't be math......

They did not need to throw a number on the board for blind faith to see if it sticks. If that many people had it, then why aren't there 4,000 dead Ohioans?

In the words of Sweet Lou, I'm agitated


That would indicate that covid-19 is far (far far) less deadly than some of the less conservative estimates would put it. Numbers out of South Korea put the mortality rate at less than 1% (among people with molecularly/pathologically confirmed disease)

The actual issue isnít whether there are 30 people of 300,000 or 3,000,000 people in Ohio who screen positive for covid-19 with a PCR-based test: it is how many are symptomatic, and how many are symptomatic enough to require an intervention. If, RIGHT NOW, there are 100,000 Ohioans infected with covid-19 but only 100 of those 100,000 currently show or end up showing identifiable symptoms, that is a good thing.
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The Optimist
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/14/2020 2:15:34 AM 
JSF wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
100,000 cases in Ohio? That's Redchicken math at this point. It might be a projection about what to expect in the future, based on some modeling, but that's not what his spokeslady said. They've got to be more careful with their language. The most recent figures from the CDC show 1,629 confirmed cases in whole U.S. Obviously, there are more actual cases than the confirmed cases, but the magnitude of this reckless statement is staggering.

The key statement down several graphs was: "She added that the slow rollout of testing means the state does not have good verified numbers to know for sure."

Lots of folks won't read that far, and will just see the headline. That feeds hysteria and panic. At this juncture, you want to give verified facts in a no-nonsense manner. It's a serious situation, but you don't want to give people the impression that things are spiraling out of control when they are not. Again, things are dicey now, and it could get worse before it gets better, but as FDR said, fear of fear itself is something we should avoid when possible.


They know what they're talking about and you don't. Stop being irresponsible and undermining the experts.


What an absurd statement.

Undermining the "experts" at the CDC who have underestimated this outbreak from Day 1? Please. Anyone who is suggesting "big brother knows everything" is a low IQ individual. You have a brain, think for yourself.


I've seen crazier things happen.

Black 41 Flash Reverse

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JSF
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/14/2020 2:57:23 AM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
You, Sir, donít know nearly as much as you think you do on a multitude of topics. Your high-handed know it all attitude is wearing a bit thin.


*My* know-it-all attitude? Dude, YOU were the one was playing the know-it-all card. I said, "Listen to the people who know about this than we do." In other words, flat-out saying I don't know anything. I'd love an explanation as to how that is a know-it-all attitude. Why don't you regale us with another, "I'm going to deny reality because I don't like it" posts?

Quote:
Are these the same experts who told if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor? How about the experts who told us you have to pass the bill to know what's in the bill? No? My bad, maybe it's the experts who said if we took the 500 million Bloomberg spent on his campaign and instead gave it away, every person would get $1.5 million.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence

Last Edited: 3/14/2020 2:58:38 AM by JSF


"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/14/2020 9:03:49 AM 
JSF: You told me I didnít know anything about the topic, yet the person I was criticizing later in the day said she had misspoken. Seems thatís an indication I might have had a slight bit of insight into the situation upon which I was commenting. And, yes, your snarky comments often come off, at least to me, as though you are feeling very superior about yourself and your level of expertise. You could have said you disagreed with my assessment without impugning my integrity and implying I was doing some great disservice to humanity by questioning this particular statistic. BLSS, a few posts earlier, disagreed with me in an agreeable manner. Itís possible, even, on BA to have respectful disagreements.


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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/14/2020 9:45:22 AM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
JSF: your snarky comments often come off, at least to me, as though you are feeling very superior about yourself and your level of expertise.


+1
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/14/2020 9:58:10 AM 
GraffZ06 wrote:

Are these the same experts who told if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor? How about the experts who told us you have to pass the bill to know what's in the bill? No? My bad, maybe it's the experts who said if we took the 500 million Bloomberg spent on his campaign and instead gave it away, every person would get $1.5 million.


I don't understand how this addresses anything I said.

There are actual questions in my post. You didn't address any of them. You did, however, bring up a decade old debate about healthcare policy. Super helpful and relevant.

I'll ask it again more directly: what's so reckless about a high estimate of Covid 19 cases in Ohio, even if it ends up incorrect? And is that more or less reckless than Trump insisting the virus was completely under control and would be at zero?

Which of those two things puts people in more danger?


GraffZ06 wrote:

If that math is true, and we believe the mortality rate is 3% (which is exaggerated and untrue based on not knowing the actual # of infections, and HEAVILY skewed toward elderly, but let's give them the benefit of the doubt) then that means 3000 of those 100k Ohioans are going to die. That's more people dead...in Ohio alone....then have this virus in the entire country.


We have literally no idea how many people have this virus in the US. There's no reliable way to get tested. We just don't know. Part of the point I'm making is that while you feel it's reckless when people estimate large numbers, I think it's equally reckless to continue to insist the number of confirmed cases is at all representative given that the US fell flat on our face implementing testing infrastructure.

We don't know much of anything right now. As a result, there are going to be people whose estimates are way too high and people whose estimates are way too low.

The question I'm asking is why you all think one of those things is so reckless that it warrants impeachment, but the other is totally fine.


GraffZ06 wrote:

This is a really nasty bug. It can spread really easily. It is serious. Over-reactions like this just breed panic and make things worse. It is NOT helping. This is why there isn't any toilet paper on a shelf ANYWHERE.


And underreactions make things worse as well, because it leads to people not taking it seriously. The fact of the matter is that we don't know the scope of things currently precisely because it was underestimated and we lost 5 weeks. Those that continue to underestimate it and go about their daily lives are not helping either.


GraffZ06 wrote:

I'll tell you this, the incubation period before showing signs of sickness is estimated at 5 days. Today is Friday. If by next Tuesday Ohio isn't reporting OVER 100k people with the virus - DeWhiner should be fired, and possibly put in jail for inciting panic.


If DeWhiner should be fired for over-estimating here, can you make a case as to why Trump shouldn't be fired for his equally reckless approach?

It is, of course, not Trump's fault that Covid 19 showed up in the US. There was no avoiding that. But they handled this terribly. They made the decision to test far too few people, bungled the rollout of test manufacturing, and as a result this thing spread unchecked for a solid 3 weeks. And now we're in full pandemic mode -- schools shutting down, public gatherings cancelled -- and we're still not set up for large scale testing.

The World Health Organization offered the US tests. We refused them.

On February 25th, the White House said the virus has been "contained."

On February 26th, he said "I think every aspect of our society should be prepared. I don't think it's going to come to that, especially with the fact that we're going down not up. We're going very substantially down, not up. When you have 15 people, and the 15 in a couple of days is going to be down close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done."

On February 28th Trump said "Coronavirus is under control in the US." On Feb

If you're so upset about somebody saying the number 100,000 shouldn't you be equally upset about somebody saying the number 0?



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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/14/2020 10:07:18 AM 
BLSS, I agree that the US handled the testing aspect of the COVID-19 crisis poorly at the beginning and that Trump made some foolish and incorrect statements minimizing the potential impact. I thought his tone in yesterday's press conference and the previous Oval Office address were much better. I also give Trump credit for very quickly shutting off travel from China when the COVID-19 virus was discovered to be running rampant in the country. If you will recall, he was widely criticized at the time for that action. I think I'm being fairly even-handed in this analysis, but certainly, like all of on BA, I have my biases.

Last Edited: 3/14/2020 10:07:49 AM by OhioCatFan


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/14/2020 12:39:14 PM 
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/03/14/cor... /


We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/14/2020 12:43:44 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
BLSS, I agree that the US handled the testing aspect of the COVID-19 crisis poorly at the beginning and that Trump made some foolish and incorrect statements minimizing the potential impact. I thought his tone in yesterday's press conference and the previous Oval Office address were much better. I also give Trump credit for very quickly shutting off travel from China when the COVID-19 virus was discovered to be running rampant in the country. If you will recall, he was widely criticized at the time for that action. I think I'm being fairly even-handed in this analysis, but certainly, like all of on BA, I have my biases.


Agree on the China travel ban. That was wise. But pretty much everything since then has been handled basically as poorly as possible. He and his surrogates started immediately with the idea that Covid 19 was a political hoax meant to harm Trump and their response was a purely political one. I don't think there's any case to be made that the federal government should receive anything but a failing grade for their handling of this, and though Trump insisted yesterday it's not his job and he "takes no responsibility", his job is to run the federal government.
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Recovering Journalist
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/14/2020 1:37:09 PM 
All the naysayers who are rolling their eyes at guys like DeWine and refusing to change their behavior could be contributing to more deaths in the coming months. This chart is illuminating, but it was made by experts so I'm sure it wont get through to everyone here.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/13/opinion/co...
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Does Dewine know something that we donít. Was the MAC tournament a significant risk?
   Posted: 3/14/2020 2:01:30 PM 
RJ, are you implying because I might question an aspect or two of what the governorís office said that Iím questioning everything and that Iím not modifying my behavior to help flatten the curve? If so, youíd be wrong. And, I suspect youíd be wrong if you applied that generalization to others on here who had their own questions about how the State of Ohio is handling things.


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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