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Topic:  Interesting ANews Article

Topic:  Interesting ANews Article
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  Interesting ANews Article
   Posted: 2/6/2020 9:14:53 AM 
Another significant decline in enrollment.

https://www.athensnews.com/news/campus/ohio-university-se...

Last Edited: 2/6/2020 9:15:09 AM by Alan Swank

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Ted Thompson
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  Message Not Read  RE: Interesting ANews Article
   Posted: 2/6/2020 9:50:31 AM 
Any idea if Ohio is keeping market share but there is just a smaller addressable market? Or is Ohio losing market share?


Follow Ohio Football recruiting on the BobcatAttack.com football recruiting database.

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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Interesting ANews Article
   Posted: 2/6/2020 10:19:59 AM 
Ted Thompson wrote:
Any idea if Ohio is keeping market share but there is just a smaller addressable market? Or is Ohio losing market share?


Great question Ted. Based on this article about BG for last year over the previous year, I'd say we are losing market share.

https://bgindependentmedia.org/bgsu-reports-higher-enroll... /

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cbus cat fan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Interesting ANews Article
   Posted: 2/6/2020 10:44:38 AM 
Alan, OCF anyone else have a feel for what this really means for our beloved Alma Mater? Do we have any idea of the number of students enrolled in a particular major and or college, and how that has changed? We are in a demographic spiral for those who are entering or upon to enter college. The South and West are certainly immune from that, but not the Midwest or Northeast.

A colleague of mine who is a board member of another MAC school seemed to think that the BG numbers, which are holding their own might have something to do with the millions of dollars they have poured into architectural aesthetics to make the somewhat drab university look a little more inviting. It certainly hasn't worked for Akron. Anyone have any idea of the most recent numbers for the Michigan MAC schools? As I have said before, God help us when we hit the next major economic downturn in 10-20 years. The cost of higher ed and student debt are not sustainable. This coupled with a declining student population and a plethora of colleges and universities in the old Northwest Territories, doesn't bode well for this part of the country.

Last Edited: 2/6/2020 10:46:18 AM by cbus cat fan

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Interesting ANews Article
   Posted: 2/6/2020 10:48:45 AM 
Something tells me that $19 Million budget deficit projection could be significantly higher. The answer will probably be laying off more full-time profs and cutting programs, while hiring or maintaining more of that upper management and a big bonus to the President for steering the University through the trouble ;-)
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Interesting ANews Article
   Posted: 2/6/2020 10:52:30 AM 
cbus cat fan wrote:
Alan, OCF anyone else have a feel for what this really means for our beloved Alma Mater? Do we have any idea of the number of students enrolled in a particular major and or college, and how that has changed? We are in a demographic spiral for those who are entering or upon to enter college. The South and West are certainly immune from that, but not the Midwest or Northeast.

A colleague of mine who is a board member of another MAC school seemed to think that the BG numbers, which are holding their own might have something to do with the millions of dollars they have poured into architectural aesthetics to make the somewhat drab university look a little more inviting. It certainly hasn't worked for Akron. Anyone have any idea of the most recent numbers for the Michigan MAC schools? As I have said before, God help us when we hit the next major economic downturn in 10-20 years. The cost of higher ed and student debt are not sustainable. This coupled with a declining student population and a plethora of colleges and universities in the old Northwest Territories, doesn't bode well for this part of the country.



I would like to see the enrollment breakdown and trends by college. I suspect that certain colleges within the university are being hit disproportionately. I suspect that some of those with the greatest losses are also ones that traditionally have the greatest political clout in university politics. This makes it particularly hard to institute the kind of restructuring that would help us reverse the trend expeditiously.

Last Edited: 2/6/2020 10:52:59 AM by OhioCatFan


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Interesting ANews Article
   Posted: 2/6/2020 11:02:33 AM 
The article answers an earlier question that I had, which none of us could answer. OHIO University is down 5,000 students since 2017. That is system wide.
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Interesting ANews Article
   Posted: 2/6/2020 11:49:11 AM 
Dug a little deeper and the undergraduate enrolllment on the Athens campus for this semester is 14,965. Two springs ago it was 16,614. That's a 10% drop. The number of high school graduates did not drop 10% during that time period.

Also, here's a great site.

https://www.ohio.edu/instres/enrollstats/index.html

Last Edited: 2/6/2020 11:52:11 AM by Alan Swank

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Interesting ANews Article
   Posted: 2/6/2020 1:48:35 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
Dug a little deeper and the undergraduate enrolllment on the Athens campus for this semester is 14,965. Two springs ago it was 16,614. That's a 10% drop. The number of high school graduates did not drop 10% during that time period.

Also, here's a great site.

https://www.ohio.edu/instres/enrollstats/index.html


Add to that information that applications are down another 10% from this time last year.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Interesting ANews Article
   Posted: 2/6/2020 3:30:13 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Dug a little deeper and the undergraduate enrolllment on the Athens campus for this semester is 14,965. Two springs ago it was 16,614. That's a 10% drop. The number of high school graduates did not drop 10% during that time period.

Also, here's a great site.

https://www.ohio.edu/instres/enrollstats/index.html


Add to that information that applications are down another 10% from this time last year.


Anybody know off-hand what percentage of undergrads were foreign students? Those are down substantially nationwide.
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cbus cat fan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Interesting ANews Article
   Posted: 2/6/2020 3:31:01 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Dug a little deeper and the undergraduate enrolllment on the Athens campus for this semester is 14,965. Two springs ago it was 16,614. That's a 10% drop. The number of high school graduates did not drop 10% during that time period.

Also, here's a great site.

https://www.ohio.edu/instres/enrollstats/index.html


Add to that information that applications are down another 10% from this time last year.


Yikes, Alan and Billy, that's more than a little disconcerting. As for any decline in foreign students, I do know that some countries can pull whole segments of their students out of a university. A couple of years ago, Wittenberg got an out of the blue call from the government of Saudi Arabia announcing that after talking with their students they preferred a warmer location, thus a few hundred students were then sent to Florida. A few hundred students is a big deal to Wittenberg. We always seem to have a good number of students from Southeast Asia, but I am not sure if that is still true or not.

OCF, I am kinda out of the loop on who the political players might be i.e. important colleges and majors, are you at liberty to say what majors those might be? Is there any particular major and or college whose reputation has fallen recently? Again those numbers are more than a little disconcerting.

Last Edited: 2/6/2020 3:37:42 PM by cbus cat fan

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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Interesting ANews Article
   Posted: 2/6/2020 5:04:37 PM 
cbus cat fan wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Dug a little deeper and the undergraduate enrolllment on the Athens campus for this semester is 14,965. Two springs ago it was 16,614. That's a 10% drop. The number of high school graduates did not drop 10% during that time period.

Also, here's a great site.

https://www.ohio.edu/instres/enrollstats/index.html


Add to that information that applications are down another 10% from this time last year.


Yikes, Alan and Billy, that's more than a little disconcerting. As for any decline in foreign students, I do know that some countries can pull whole segments of their students out of a university. A couple of years ago, Wittenberg got an out of the blue call from the government of Saudi Arabia announcing that after talking with their students they preferred a warmer location, thus a few hundred students were then sent to Florida. A few hundred students is a big deal to Wittenberg. We always seem to have a good number of students from Southeast Asia, but I am not sure if that is still true or not.

OCF, I am kinda out of the loop on who the political players might be i.e. important colleges and majors, are you at liberty to say what majors those might be? Is there any particular major and or college whose reputation has fallen recently? Again those numbers are more than a little disconcerting.


Click on the link above and go to page 62 and you will see the international student numbers for fall 2018. Most of the 1087 are graduate students (729). That site is a treasure trove of statistical information including students enrolled in various academic colleges and majors including - drum roll please - the 13 people in classics and world religions and the 18 in women, gender and sexuality studies. The 133 students in journalism is a real concern too considering with attrition there were 188 seniors.

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cbus cat fan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Interesting ANews Article
   Posted: 2/6/2020 5:19:43 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
cbus cat fan wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Dug a little deeper and the undergraduate enrolllment on the Athens campus for this semester is 14,965. Two springs ago it was 16,614. That's a 10% drop. The number of high school graduates did not drop 10% during that time period.

Also, here's a great site.

https://www.ohio.edu/instres/enrollstats/index.html


Add to that information that applications are down another 10% from this time last year.


Yikes, Alan and Billy, that's more than a little disconcerting. As for any decline in foreign students, I do know that some countries can pull whole segments of their students out of a university. A couple of years ago, Wittenberg got an out of the blue call from the government of Saudi Arabia announcing that after talking with their students they preferred a warmer location, thus a few hundred students were then sent to Florida. A few hundred students is a big deal to Wittenberg. We always seem to have a good number of students from Southeast Asia, but I am not sure if that is still true or not.

OCF, I am kinda out of the loop on who the political players might be i.e. important colleges and majors, are you at liberty to say what majors those might be? Is there any particular major and or college whose reputation has fallen recently? Again those numbers are more than a little disconcerting.


Click on the link above and go to page 62 and you will see the international student numbers for fall 2018. Most of the 1087 are graduate students (729). That site is a treasure trove of statistical information including students enrolled in various academic colleges and majors including - drum roll please - the 13 people in classics and world religions and the 18 in women, gender and sexuality studies. The 133 students in journalism is a real concern too considering with attrition there were 188 seniors.



Thanks Alan, I will check it out!
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Interesting ANews Article
   Posted: 2/6/2020 8:52:37 PM 
Report a few months ago suggested we are taking a beating in international student population.
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Kevin Finnegan
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Location: Rockton, IL
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  Message Not Read  RE: Interesting ANews Article
   Posted: 2/7/2020 9:06:19 AM 
First reaction is to take shots at Nellis, and maybe they're warranted. But, what are some solutions to this problem? How do we entice a new generation to be drawn to our university?

Do we re-hype our party school image? It set us apart and may have drawn some to the school (it certainly had me interested 20+ years ago).

Should the journalism school be repurposed or at least look at ways to change the format? Pair with social media companies to re-brand the program?

We've identified the problem (lack of interest in our product). The question is, what's the solution?

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Robert Fox
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  Message Not Read  RE: Interesting ANews Article
   Posted: 2/7/2020 9:15:12 AM 
Seems to me we have not answered the biggest question: Is the reduction a result of market size reduction or loss of market share? Ted asked the question somewhere. I have not seen a definitive answer. Maybe I missed it.

Is it true that fewer people are earning bachelor's degrees statewide? Is that a problem?
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cbus cat fan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Interesting ANews Article
   Posted: 2/7/2020 10:10:42 AM 
Robert Fox wrote:
Seems to me we have not answered the biggest question: Is the reduction a result of market size reduction or loss of market share? Ted asked the question somewhere. I have not seen a definitive answer. Maybe I missed it.

Is it true that fewer people are earning bachelor's degrees statewide? Is that a problem?


There are fewer college age kids, state and region wide and that won't change anytime soon. The Journalism and English departments were always well thought of and yet those majors, as well as some others are going through a great deal of transition, which could lower numbers.

Some anecdotal points, a colleague has made a couple points to me for sometime, I have no idea if he is correct but he certainly rubs elbows with those who should know. He claims international students, whether by their choice or their government's choice are increasingly going to schools in the South and West, and of course those who can will always go to the Ivy League schools if possible. He claims, with the exception of the Ivy League, that the days of schools outside the South and West getting the numbers of international students they once did are over.

Also, schools like Columbus State are increasingly partnering with employers like Honda to get kids a two year associates degree (paid by Honda) and then put them into apprentice programs where they can either work on the factory floor with credentials to move up or continue to other schools for two more years to fulfill their Bachelor requirements. The same goes for Amazon and a myriad of IT companies.

I think all of these factors are contributing to declining numbers not only for us, but many other schools as well.

Last Edited: 2/7/2020 10:14:40 AM by cbus cat fan

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UpSan Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Interesting ANews Article
   Posted: 2/7/2020 10:51:00 AM 
Alan Swank wrote:
Dug a little deeper and the undergraduate enrolllment on the Athens campus for this semester is 14,965. Two springs ago it was 16,614. That's a 10% drop. The number of high school graduates did not drop 10% during that time period.


True, but are the same percentage of students who graduate going to college, especially to four-year colleges?

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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Interesting ANews Article
   Posted: 2/7/2020 11:00:30 AM 
UpSan Bobcat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Dug a little deeper and the undergraduate enrolllment on the Athens campus for this semester is 14,965. Two springs ago it was 16,614. That's a 10% drop. The number of high school graduates did not drop 10% during that time period.


True, but are the same percentage of students who graduate going to college, especially to four-year colleges?



Doesn't really matter. Colleges are drawing from the same pool no matter the size of that pool and if college A is seeing an increase in enrollment and college B is seeing a decrease, that's a loss of market share for college B.

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OUPride
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  Message Not Read  RE: Interesting ANews Article
   Posted: 2/7/2020 11:34:49 AM 
Alan Swank wrote:
UpSan Bobcat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Dug a little deeper and the undergraduate enrolllment on the Athens campus for this semester is 14,965. Two springs ago it was 16,614. That's a 10% drop. The number of high school graduates did not drop 10% during that time period.


True, but are the same percentage of students who graduate going to college, especially to four-year colleges?



Doesn't really matter. Colleges are drawing from the same pool no matter the size of that pool and if college A is seeing an increase in enrollment and college B is seeing a decrease, that's a loss of market share for college B.



My understanding is that every school in the system other than OSU is facing this to one degree or another. Some, like Toledo, BG and Akron, are in much more dire straights than Ohio. UC is dealing with the situation by backing off on their moves to be more selective, and Miami of course is doubling down on out of state recruitment, though they've never been able to replicate their success in Chicago anywhere else in the country and with that Chicago pipeline maximized are in a very precarious situation.
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Robert Fox
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  Message Not Read  RE: Interesting ANews Article
   Posted: 2/7/2020 11:38:33 AM 
So if every school in Ohio is seeing similar reduction in enrollment, doesn't that suggest the market itself is shrinking, not necessarily market share?

If that's true, it makes sense Miami is trying to attract out of state students (expand the market area).
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Interesting ANews Article
   Posted: 2/7/2020 12:07:10 PM 
OUPride wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
UpSan Bobcat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Dug a little deeper and the undergraduate enrolllment on the Athens campus for this semester is 14,965. Two springs ago it was 16,614. That's a 10% drop. The number of high school graduates did not drop 10% during that time period.


True, but are the same percentage of students who graduate going to college, especially to four-year colleges?



Doesn't really matter. Colleges are drawing from the same pool no matter the size of that pool and if college A is seeing an increase in enrollment and college B is seeing a decrease, that's a loss of market share for college B.



My understanding is that every school in the system other than OSU is facing this to one degree or another. Some, like Toledo, BG and Akron, are in much more dire straights than Ohio. UC is dealing with the situation by backing off on their moves to be more selective, and Miami of course is doubling down on out of state recruitment, though they've never been able to replicate their success in Chicago anywhere else in the country and with that Chicago pipeline maximized are in a very precarious situation.


I feel like the Miami Chicago pipeline's discussed almost exclusively as a negative here. I'm not an expert in these things, but I'm curious why that is. What's bad about it?

Given the state of things, wouldn't we basically kill to have a pipeline of folks from the 3rd largest city in the country that pay 2x what our average student does?
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Interesting ANews Article
   Posted: 2/7/2020 12:07:12 PM 
Robert Fox wrote:
So if every school in Ohio is seeing similar reduction in enrollment, doesn't that suggest the market itself is shrinking, not necessarily market share?

If that's true, it makes sense Miami is trying to attract out of state students (expand the market area).


BG is up.

https://www.bgsu.edu/news/2019/09/bowling-green-state-uni...
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Interesting ANews Article
   Posted: 2/7/2020 12:27:52 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
OUPride wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
UpSan Bobcat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Dug a little deeper and the undergraduate enrolllment on the Athens campus for this semester is 14,965. Two springs ago it was 16,614. That's a 10% drop. The number of high school graduates did not drop 10% during that time period.


True, but are the same percentage of students who graduate going to college, especially to four-year colleges?



Doesn't really matter. Colleges are drawing from the same pool no matter the size of that pool and if college A is seeing an increase in enrollment and college B is seeing a decrease, that's a loss of market share for college B.



My understanding is that every school in the system other than OSU is facing this to one degree or another. Some, like Toledo, BG and Akron, are in much more dire straights than Ohio. UC is dealing with the situation by backing off on their moves to be more selective, and Miami of course is doubling down on out of state recruitment, though they've never been able to replicate their success in Chicago anywhere else in the country and with that Chicago pipeline maximized are in a very precarious situation.


I feel like the Miami Chicago pipeline's discussed almost exclusively as a negative here. I'm not an expert in these things, but I'm curious why that is. What's bad about it?

Given the state of things, wouldn't we basically kill to have a pipeline of folks from the 3rd largest city in the country that pay 2x what our average student does?


Agreed. Having spent some time in the suburban Chicago schools, those schools have some of the best students in the midwest. When I was at Muskingum in the 70s, the college attracted lots of kids from PA, NY and NJ. For some reason that pipeline dried up and the college is now a regional (within 2 hours) college with not as much diversity as we had years ago - still a good school though. Danny Nee lived off of his Philadelphia and New York pipeline. Nothing wrong with bringing it what works especially if the recruits are of high quality.

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Robert Fox
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  Message Not Read  RE: Interesting ANews Article
   Posted: 2/7/2020 12:55:58 PM 
If BG is up in enrollment, why is Pride saying their situation is dire?
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