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Topic:  Cultural change

Topic:  Cultural change
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Alan Swank
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Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 5,764

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  Message Not Read  Cultural change
   Posted: 1/22/2020 7:02:57 PM 
Interesting article in the ANews. Read it to the end. If indeed this is no longer a party school (don't get me wrong, I am not advocating for that as our selling point), how do we develop a strong academic program to attract students or is this the beginning of a downward spiral of applicants and attendees? At last week's board meeting, it was presented that early applications are down 10%.

https://www.athensnews.com/news/campus/it-s-official-numb...
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rpbobcat
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Member Since: 4/28/2006
Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
Post Count: 2,582

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  Message Not Read  RE: Cultural change
   Posted: 1/23/2020 6:53:10 AM 
The article points out a number of reasons for the demise of Number Fest,including
the switch from quarters to semesters.

From previous articles I've read,switching to semesters has had a major impact on Fests.

When O.U. was on quarters,Fest Season was later.

For this Spring,the latest you could hold a Fest,unless you want to try having one
on the weekend before Finals is 4/18.

In addition to lower temperature,you're also more likely to get at least some rain.

Not the most conducive environment for a Fest,even for hard partying students.



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Alan Swank
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Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 5,764

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  Message Not Read  RE: Cultural change
   Posted: 1/23/2020 8:24:55 AM 
rpbobcat wrote:
The article points out a number of reasons for the demise of Number Fest,including
the switch from quarters to semesters.

From previous articles I've read,switching to semesters has had a major impact on Fests.

When O.U. was on quarters,Fest Season was later.

For this Spring,the latest you could hold a Fest,unless you want to try having one
on the weekend before Finals is 4/18.

In addition to lower temperature,you're also more likely to get at least some rain.

Not the most conducive environment for a Fest,even for hard partying students.





You hit the nail right on the head except you left out one word which I'll insert before OCF gets up this morning. "Fake" semesters.

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rpbobcat
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Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
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  Message Not Read  RE: Cultural change
   Posted: 1/23/2020 8:59:25 AM 
Alan Swank wrote:


You hit the nail right on the head except you left out one word which I'll insert before OCF gets up this morning. "Fake" semesters.



I don't know if I'd call it "Fake Semesters".

But,I will say that,based on my working with FDU,OU has been very creative (fuzzy math)in how they assign credit hours, based the number of weeks in their semester.

To some extent,I'm surprised other schools haven't picked up on the idea.

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OhioCatFan
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 10,611

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  Message Not Read  RE: Cultural change
   Posted: 1/23/2020 9:58:05 AM 
Every state school in Ohio except Miami has adopted Fake Semesters — 14 weeks instead of 16, with slightly longer class periods and, therefore, theoretically the same number of instructional hours. This, IMHO, is defrauding the taxpayers of this state.


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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Kevin Finnegan
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Member Since: 2/4/2005
Location: Rockton, IL
Post Count: 727

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  Message Not Read  RE: Cultural change
   Posted: 1/23/2020 10:21:12 AM 
Interesting on the 'fake' semesters. Do you think there'd ever be an appetite to return to quarters? Personally, I loved it as a student. Felt it exposed me to many more offerings, just in smaller doses than the semester system. Also was quite a fan of our schedule (ending at Thanksgiving gave me first shot at holiday employment gigs) and returning right away in January (when I was ready to get out of my parents house).
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Alan Swank
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Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 5,764

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  Message Not Read  RE: Cultural change
   Posted: 1/23/2020 12:13:23 PM 
Kevin Finnegan wrote:
Interesting on the 'fake' semesters. Do you think there'd ever be an appetite to return to quarters? Personally, I loved it as a student. Felt it exposed me to many more offerings, just in smaller doses than the semester system. Also was quite a fan of our schedule (ending at Thanksgiving gave me first shot at holiday employment gigs) and returning right away in January (when I was ready to get out of my parents house).


I think most businesses in town would favor a return to the old system. May and June are brutal months in Athens for cash flow.

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rpbobcat
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Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
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  Message Not Read  RE: Cultural change
   Posted: 1/23/2020 12:31:22 PM 
Kevin Finnegan wrote:
Interesting on the 'fake' semesters. Do you think there'd ever be an appetite to return to quarters? Personally, I loved it as a student. Felt it exposed me to many more offerings, just in smaller doses than the semester system. Also was quite a fan of our schedule (ending at Thanksgiving gave me first shot at holiday employment gigs) and returning right away in January (when I was ready to get out of my parents house).


When I was at O.U. back in the dark ages (mid 1970's),we started Fall Quarter in late September.

So the Quarter ended in December.

The killer was getting out late in the Spring.

A lot of people had problems getting Summer jobs or internships.

I believe all state schools in Ohio had to go to semesters.
OSU went screaming and kicking.

So the only way quarters come back is if the whole state goes that route.
Don't see it happening.

I went to colleges that had both quarters and semesters.

Both had advantages and disadvantages.

One big disadvantage was how quarter credits transferred to a Semester school.


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OhioCatFan
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 10,611

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  Message Not Read  RE: Cultural change
   Posted: 1/23/2020 12:42:39 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
Kevin Finnegan wrote:
Interesting on the 'fake' semesters. Do you think there'd ever be an appetite to return to quarters? Personally, I loved it as a student. Felt it exposed me to many more offerings, just in smaller doses than the semester system. Also was quite a fan of our schedule (ending at Thanksgiving gave me first shot at holiday employment gigs) and returning right away in January (when I was ready to get out of my parents house).


I think most businesses in town would favor a return to the old system. May and June are brutal months in Athens for cash flow.



I think those businesses would really prefer a return to the original quarter system, which gave them both Christmas sales and spring sales as well. The Bucklew Bastardized Quarter System (BBQS) did not save energy, which was its original rationale, but did take a lot of money out of the pockets of local merchants, though it may have put some more money in the pockets of students as Kevin says. The BBQS also made it hard to have a good pre-conference basketball season because students were gone the whole month of December and it guaranteed low attendance during that month.


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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74 Cat
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Member Since: 2/23/2005
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  Message Not Read  RE: Cultural change
   Posted: 1/24/2020 6:46:15 AM 
You can thank Ted Strickland and Eric Fingerhut and their University System of Ohio for semesters.
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BillyTheCat
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Member Since: 10/6/2012
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  Message Not Read  RE: Cultural change
   Posted: 1/24/2020 8:01:08 AM 
In the day and age of students moving via transfer and the CCP+ environment that the State Legislature created, what is wrong with schools being on the same page. This only benefits the students, when credits were not transferring or credits being given but the class not counting, that is good for no one but the University.

I do have a problem with the BS semester setup that shorts actual educational time, but bringing all the state universities in-line in basic procedure is not a bad thing in my mind.
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The Optimist
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Member Since: 3/16/2007
Location: Akron (sleeper agent)
Post Count: 4,744

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  Message Not Read  RE: Cultural change
   Posted: 1/24/2020 10:10:57 AM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
This only benefits the students


Lol this change has zero to do with students and everything to do with $


I've seen crazier things happen.

Black 41 Flash Reverse

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Alan Swank
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Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 5,764

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: Cultural change
   Posted: 1/24/2020 10:30:03 AM 
The Optimist wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
This only benefits the students


Lol this change has zero to do with students and everything to do with $


Right you are. Glad you and a few others can see through the blather from Columbus, Cutler Hall and the board of trustees on how all of this is for the students. It's a business folks where those at the top continue to reap disproportional benefits all because tuition dollars are easy to come by.

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UpSan Bobcat
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Member Since: 8/30/2005
Location: Upper Sandusky, OH
Post Count: 3,426

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  Message Not Read  RE: Cultural change
   Posted: 1/24/2020 11:02:19 AM 
Alan Swank wrote:
The Optimist wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
This only benefits the students


Lol this change has zero to do with students and everything to do with $


Right you are. Glad you and a few others can see through the blather from Columbus, Cutler Hall and the board of trustees on how all of this is for the students. It's a business folks where those at the top continue to reap disproportional benefits all because tuition dollars are easy to come by.



I don't doubt this is true, but explain to me how it's about the money. How does the government and/or university benefit financially by being on semesters?
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Alan Swank
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Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 5,764

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: Cultural change
   Posted: 1/24/2020 2:07:10 PM 
UpSan Bobcat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
The Optimist wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
This only benefits the students


Lol this change has zero to do with students and everything to do with $


Right you are. Glad you and a few others can see through the blather from Columbus, Cutler Hall and the board of trustees on how all of this is for the students. It's a business folks where those at the top continue to reap disproportional benefits all because tuition dollars are easy to come by.



I don't doubt this is true, but explain to me how it's about the money. How does the government and/or university benefit financially by being on semesters?


One example is when we went from quarters to semesters, the number of days students spent in dorms and meals they ate in cafeterias declined yet room and board prices went up.

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OhioCatFan
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 10,611

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: Cultural change
   Posted: 1/24/2020 10:38:45 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
UpSan Bobcat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
The Optimist wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
This only benefits the students


Lol this change has zero to do with students and everything to do with $


Right you are. Glad you and a few others can see through the blather from Columbus, Cutler Hall and the board of trustees on how all of this is for the students. It's a business folks where those at the top continue to reap disproportional benefits all because tuition dollars are easy to come by.



I don't doubt this is true, but explain to me how it's about the money. How does the government and/or university benefit financially by being on semesters?


One example is when we went from quarters to semesters, the number of days students spent in dorms and meals they ate in cafeterias declined yet room and board prices went up.



This wouldn't have happened with real semesters. It's was a bait and switch.


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Cultural change
   Posted: 1/24/2020 11:19:29 PM 
The Optimist wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
This only benefits the students


Lol this change has zero to do with students and everything to do with $


Nice hatchet job on my post? You work for Briebart of for some 400LB single fat dude in his mother’s basement? The comment is clearly to the point that pick a term, Semester, Quarter, hell Unitary system, I really do not care! However, every school receiving state money should be on the same basic system and all core courses should transfer. And prices should be reflective of the educational instruction time.

Last Edited: 1/24/2020 11:26:56 PM by BillyTheCat

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Cultural change
   Posted: 1/24/2020 11:22:15 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
UpSan Bobcat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
The Optimist wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
This only benefits the students


Lol this change has zero to do with students and everything to do with $


Right you are. Glad you and a few others can see through the blather from Columbus, Cutler Hall and the board of trustees on how all of this is for the students. It's a business folks where those at the top continue to reap disproportional benefits all because tuition dollars are easy to come by.



I don't doubt this is true, but explain to me how it's about the money. How does the government and/or university benefit financially by being on semesters?


One example is when we went from quarters to semesters, the number of days students spent in dorms and meals they ate in cafeterias declined yet room and board prices went up.



Which is exactly my point, which Briebart hijacked and you speed read over to get to the next sales meeting. I clearly stated in a post that I WAS NOT A FAN of this bastardized semester situation. However, when 145-15 schools all operate in totally different schedules, only the students get screwed.
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BillyTheCat
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Member Since: 10/6/2012
Post Count: 6,045

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  Message Not Read  RE: Cultural change
   Posted: 1/24/2020 11:25:26 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
UpSan Bobcat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
The Optimist wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
This only benefits the students


Lol this change has zero to do with students and everything to do with $


Right you are. Glad you and a few others can see through the blather from Columbus, Cutler Hall and the board of trustees on how all of this is for the students. It's a business folks where those at the top continue to reap disproportional benefits all because tuition dollars are easy to come by.



I don't doubt this is true, but explain to me how it's about the money. How does the government and/or university benefit financially by being on semesters?


One example is when we went from quarters to semesters, the number of days students spent in dorms and meals they ate in cafeterias declined yet room and board prices went up.



This wouldn't have happened with real semesters. It's was a bait and switch.


Bingo! Took a history aficionado and journalist guy to understand this.

All state supported schools should be on same instructional time with all basic and core classes transferable. The shortened semester was a money grab. Problem is, now that enrollment may crash, that grab will be painful, as the safety net realignment has already been done.

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mf279801
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Member Since: 8/6/2010
Location: Atlanta, GA
Post Count: 2,087

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  Message Not Read  RE: Cultural change
   Posted: 1/25/2020 10:12:59 PM 
74 Cat wrote:
You can thank Ted Strickland and Eric Fingerhut and their University System of Ohio for semesters.


May they burn in hell.
(To be clear, i say that without a hint of sarcasm)
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OUPride
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  Message Not Read  RE: Cultural change
   Posted: 1/26/2020 9:33:11 AM 
mf279801 wrote:
74 Cat wrote:
You can thank Ted Strickland and Eric Fingerhut and their University System of Ohio for semesters.


May they burn in hell.
(To be clear, i say that without a hint of sarcasm)


Out of curiosity, why? Something needed to be done to reign in an out of control, redundant system that was based on individual schools' empire building far more than any rational plan on what was best for the state and efficient for the taxpayers. A lot of people think that, because of politics, they couldn't and didn't go far enough.

I know that some thought that Strickland, due to coming from SE Ohio, was going to somehow champion Ohio over the rest of the system, but honestly, that was wishful thiking.
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OUPride
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  Message Not Read  RE: Cultural change
   Posted: 1/26/2020 9:35:37 AM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
Every state school in Ohio except Miami has adopted Fake Semesters — 14 weeks instead of 16, with slightly longer class periods and, therefore, theoretically the same number of instructional hours. This, IMHO, is defrauding the taxpayers of this state.


Didn't you or I look it up once and found that Miami has about a week fewer instructional days than either Ohio or OSU? For instance, they only have classes on Monday the week of Thanksgiving (I guess so that all those Chicago kids have an extra two days to make a four hour drive?), and you know that in reality everyone has bailed the previous Friday.
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OhioCatFan
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Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 10,611

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  Message Not Read  RE: Cultural change
   Posted: 1/26/2020 10:08:02 AM 
OUPride wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
Every state school in Ohio except Miami has adopted Fake Semesters — 14 weeks instead of 16, with slightly longer class periods and, therefore, theoretically the same number of instructional hours. This, IMHO, is defrauding the taxpayers of this state.


Didn't you or I look it up once and found that Miami has about a week fewer instructional days than either Ohio or OSU? For instance, they only have classes on Monday the week of Thanksgiving (I guess so that all those Chicago kids have an extra two days to make a four hour drive?), and you know that in reality everyone has bailed the previous Friday.


Yes, you are right, Miami is now on Fake Semesters also. At one point, after other state schools went that direction, Miami held out for awhile, but they are inline now. I don't remember looking it up earlier, but if I did, I had forgotten.


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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OUPride
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Member Since: 9/21/2010
Post Count: 401

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  Message Not Read  RE: Cultural change
   Posted: 1/26/2020 6:50:21 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
OUPride wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
Every state school in Ohio except Miami has adopted Fake Semesters — 14 weeks instead of 16, with slightly longer class periods and, therefore, theoretically the same number of instructional hours. This, IMHO, is defrauding the taxpayers of this state.


Didn't you or I look it up once and found that Miami has about a week fewer instructional days than either Ohio or OSU? For instance, they only have classes on Monday the week of Thanksgiving (I guess so that all those Chicago kids have an extra two days to make a four hour drive?), and you know that in reality everyone has bailed the previous Friday.


Yes, you are right, Miami is now on Fake Semesters also. At one point, after other state schools went that direction, Miami held out for awhile, but they are inline now. I don't remember looking it up earlier, but if I did, I had forgotten.


Plus, I'm pretty sure that Miami students are given the day off for the Westchester Kennel Club show, the Newport Regatta and Royal Ascot.

Last Edited: 1/26/2020 6:52:13 PM by OUPride

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rpbobcat
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Member Since: 4/28/2006
Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
Post Count: 2,582

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: Cultural change
   Posted: 1/26/2020 7:59:31 PM 
OUPride wrote:


Plus, I'm pretty sure that Miami students are given the day off for the Westchester Kennel Club show, the Newport Regatta and Royal Ascot.



I'm guessing you mean the Westminster Kennel Club Dog Show.

I know you're joking,but its very popular around here.

Its popular enough that they hold it in The Garden.

A few years ago my wife and I were at Cedar Point for the opening of their
Snoopy Area.

The guest of honor was Uno,who had just won the show.

Never heard of him,but when we got back,and we told people about the trip,it seemed everyone we knew,had heard of him.
Apparently he was the crowd favorite.
He even got to eat at a couple of New York's best steak houses.

What really shocked people was that we were allowed to pet him.




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