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General Ohio University Discussion/Alumni Events
Topic:  RE: Three sorority's reinstated

Topic:  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
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Message
Alan Swank
General User

Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 6,003

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/4/2019 11:07:34 AM 
The Optimist wrote:
Bobcat110 wrote:
More details from the FIRE:

“ Ohio University reverses unconstitutional directive muzzling fraternity members”

“Assistant Dean of Students and Director of Community Standards and Student Responsibility Taylor J. Tackett later ominously clarified that he expected “there to be no other communication with your members, unless it is pre-approved by me.”

https://www.thefire.org/ohio-university-reverses-unconsti... /


I don’t see how any of this is OK unless there was reasonable beliefs that students were at risk.


Wow. Blatant 1st amendment violation. All to try and protect his own job.Taylor J. Tackett should resign.


That would save us $75K plus benefits which is a start toward the $19 million figure.

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Member Since: 7/30/2010
Post Count: 1,530

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/4/2019 12:00:06 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
On 10/29/19 The Post ran an Editorial "Suspending Fraternities Comes As No Surprise".
(http://www.thepostathens.com/article/2019/10/editorial-fr... )

It included comments like "It seems the main question to the university should be:
Why didn't this suspension happen sooner ? "

Funny how The Post hasn't reacted with the same fervor to the vandalism of the
fraternity houses over Thanksgiving break.

Then again,I'm still waiting for something,anything from JHJ and Nellis?



Do you think that hazing and vandalism warrant the same level of fervor?

Time 200 I've said this: somebody died. There's much more reason to believe hazing is bad than there is to be super concerned about some vandalism.

Last Edited: 12/4/2019 12:19:36 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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Alan Swank
General User

Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 6,003

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/4/2019 12:19:26 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
On 10/29/19 The Post ran an Editorial "Suspending Fraternities Comes As No Surprise".
(http://www.thepostathens.com/article/2019/10/editorial-fr... )

It included comments like "It seems the main question to the university should be:
Why didn't this suspension happen sooner ? "

Funny how The Post hasn't reacted with the same fervor to the vandalism of the
fraternity houses over Thanksgiving break.

Then again,I'm still waiting for something,anything from JHJ and Nellis?



Do you think that hazing and vandalism warrant the same level of fervor?

Time 200 I've said this: somebody died.


Yes, everyone is aware that you have said it - like a broken record. Has it ever occured to you though that you are a one man choir?

Anytime there have been acts of vandalism and/or offenive messages painted around campus - bed sheet messages, grafitti wall messsages, etc., the administration has been very quick to condemn them. In this case, it's as if someone has turned off the lights in Cutler Hall.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
General User

Member Since: 7/30/2010
Post Count: 1,530

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/4/2019 12:25:48 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
On 10/29/19 The Post ran an Editorial "Suspending Fraternities Comes As No Surprise".
(http://www.thepostathens.com/article/2019/10/editorial-fr... )

It included comments like "It seems the main question to the university should be:
Why didn't this suspension happen sooner ? "

Funny how The Post hasn't reacted with the same fervor to the vandalism of the
fraternity houses over Thanksgiving break.

Then again,I'm still waiting for something,anything from JHJ and Nellis?



Do you think that hazing and vandalism warrant the same level of fervor?

Time 200 I've said this: somebody died.


Yes, everyone is aware that you have said it - like a broken record. Has it ever occured to you though that you are a one man choir?

Anytime there have been acts of vandalism and/or offenive messages painted around campus - bed sheet messages, grafitti wall messsages, etc., the administration has been very quick to condemn them. In this case, it's as if someone has turned off the lights in Cutler Hall.


It's occured to me, yes. That's why I keep asking the mob on the other side to explain why exactly they're so angry. So far, the only person to provide what I'd consider a satisfying answer is Bobcat110, and that's because he has a very personal connection to this. His anger at least makes sense.

Everybody else seemed to make up their minds on day one and have been looking really hard for ways to justify the decision they made before they knew any details.

We've now moved on to The Post not being as upset about spray paint as they are about hazing that led to a death 11 months ago. Before that, this was an anti frat conspiracy. Now the frats are getting treated better and it's an anti 110 conspiracy. We had calls for the Dean to resign before we knew the accusations. We had calls for the Dean to resign because we didn't know the accusations. People wanted heads to roll and they went looking for reasons. Maybe they'll land on a good one in the end, but you see how grasping that is, right?

I still, for the life of me, don't understand the desire and need to be so angry about this. It's like Americans are addicted to outrage.

Last Edited: 12/4/2019 12:50:24 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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Alan Swank
General User

Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 6,003

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/4/2019 12:49:33 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
On 10/29/19 The Post ran an Editorial "Suspending Fraternities Comes As No Surprise".
(http://www.thepostathens.com/article/2019/10/editorial-fr... )

It included comments like "It seems the main question to the university should be:
Why didn't this suspension happen sooner ? "

Funny how The Post hasn't reacted with the same fervor to the vandalism of the
fraternity houses over Thanksgiving break.

Then again,I'm still waiting for something,anything from JHJ and Nellis?



Do you think that hazing and vandalism warrant the same level of fervor?

Time 200 I've said this: somebody died.


Yes, everyone is aware that you have said it - like a broken record. Has it ever occured to you though that you are a one man choir?

Anytime there have been acts of vandalism and/or offenive messages painted around campus - bed sheet messages, grafitti wall messsages, etc., the administration has been very quick to condemn them. In this case, it's as if someone has turned off the lights in Cutler Hall.


It's occured to me, yes. That's why I keep asking the mob on the other side to explain why exactly they're so angry. So far, the only person to provide what I'd consider a satisfying answer is Bobcat110, and that's because he has a very personal connection to this. His anger at least makes sense.

Everybody else seemed to make up their minds on day one and have been looking really hard for ways to justify the decision they made before they knew any details.

We've now moved on to The Post not being as upset about spray paint as they are about hazing that led to a death 11 months ago. You see how grasping that is, right?

I still, for the life of me, don't understand the desire and need to be so angry about this. It's like Americans are addicted to outrage.


Angry? Being an Ellis Hall alum, I'd think you'd know the meaning of that word. To my knowledge, other than one justified parent, no one has expressed anger. Disappointment? Absolutely. Outrage? Perhaps for some. But anger? Just not seeing it. Many people are growing weary of the trend in higher ed for administrations to act as big brother and totally disregard what in the real world are considered constitutional rights. Organizations like FIRE are finally starting to fight back against that.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Member Since: 7/30/2010
Post Count: 1,530

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/4/2019 12:54:55 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
On 10/29/19 The Post ran an Editorial "Suspending Fraternities Comes As No Surprise".
(http://www.thepostathens.com/article/2019/10/editorial-fr... )

It included comments like "It seems the main question to the university should be:
Why didn't this suspension happen sooner ? "

Funny how The Post hasn't reacted with the same fervor to the vandalism of the
fraternity houses over Thanksgiving break.

Then again,I'm still waiting for something,anything from JHJ and Nellis?



Do you think that hazing and vandalism warrant the same level of fervor?

Time 200 I've said this: somebody died.


Yes, everyone is aware that you have said it - like a broken record. Has it ever occured to you though that you are a one man choir?

Anytime there have been acts of vandalism and/or offenive messages painted around campus - bed sheet messages, grafitti wall messsages, etc., the administration has been very quick to condemn them. In this case, it's as if someone has turned off the lights in Cutler Hall.


It's occured to me, yes. That's why I keep asking the mob on the other side to explain why exactly they're so angry. So far, the only person to provide what I'd consider a satisfying answer is Bobcat110, and that's because he has a very personal connection to this. His anger at least makes sense.

Everybody else seemed to make up their minds on day one and have been looking really hard for ways to justify the decision they made before they knew any details.

We've now moved on to The Post not being as upset about spray paint as they are about hazing that led to a death 11 months ago. You see how grasping that is, right?

I still, for the life of me, don't understand the desire and need to be so angry about this. It's like Americans are addicted to outrage.


Angry? Being an Ellis Hall alum, I'd think you'd know the meaning of that word. To my knowledge, other than one justified parent, no one has expressed anger. Disappointment? Absolutely. Outrage? Perhaps for some. But anger? Just not seeing it. Many people are growing weary of the trend in higher ed for administrations to act as big brother and totally disregard what in the real world are considered constitutional rights. Organizations like FIRE are finally starting to fight back against that.


https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/anger?s=t

Outrage and anger are synonyms. It took all of four posts for this to be referred to as a "disgrace," a "pathetic state of affairs" and to call for the President to be replaced. A few posts after that, there was a link to a Post article where an alum insisted he'd never donate money ever again.

Maybe that's just outrage and not anger. I dunno. Nobody at Ellis Hall taught me the distinction you're making. What's the difference?
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Robert Fox
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Member Since: 11/16/2004
Location: Knoxville, TN
Post Count: 2,039

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/4/2019 1:01:33 PM 
You're position:
-The university did the right thing. Now just wait and see how this plays out.

Others' position (including mine)
-The university acted irrationally and has overstepped, eroding the rights of potentially innocent people.

From those positions, you want to label the second one as "angry" and, I guess, unacceptable.

The fact that some posts have made comments about not giving money, firing the president, whatever. So what? No one, to my knowledge, has acted on those things. It's so much noise on a message board.

It's just differences of opinion.
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rpbobcat
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Member Since: 4/28/2006
Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
Post Count: 2,669

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/4/2019 1:10:27 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:


We've now moved on to The Post not being as upset about spray paint as they are about hazing that led to a death 11 months ago. Before that, this was an anti frat conspiracy. Now the frats are getting treated better and it's an anti 110 conspiracy. We had calls for the Dean to resign before we knew the accusations. We had calls for the Dean to resign because we didn't know the accusations. People wanted heads to roll and they went looking for reasons. Maybe they'll land on a good one in the end, but you see how grasping that is, right?

I still, for the life of me, don't understand the desire and need to be so angry about this. It's like Americans are addicted to outrage.


First off,The Post Editorial I put up uses last year's death as a backdrop for what is basically a condemnation of Greek Life.

As far as "not being as upset" about this vandalism,the Post doesn't seem upset at all.

The frats are getting treated better,only because their national organizations and now FIRE forced them to be.

As far as the 110,its apparent from the timing of O.U.s'actions that they were intended to cause as much "pain" as possible.
They also don't have a national organization to defend them.
Its especially troubling when the same entity is investigator,prosecutor,judge,jury and executioner.

I feel this whole situation was mishandled from day 1 by JHJ and,by extension,Nellis.

Yes,I am one of those who felt JHJ needs to explain her actions or go.
Still waiting for an explanation.

Their silence speaks volumes.







Last Edited: 12/4/2019 1:12:27 PM by rpbobcat

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BillyTheCat
General User

Member Since: 10/6/2012
Post Count: 6,309

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/4/2019 1:19:42 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
On 10/29/19 The Post ran an Editorial "Suspending Fraternities Comes As No Surprise".
(http://www.thepostathens.com/article/2019/10/editorial-fr... )

It included comments like "It seems the main question to the university should be:
Why didn't this suspension happen sooner ? "

Funny how The Post hasn't reacted with the same fervor to the vandalism of the
fraternity houses over Thanksgiving break.

Then again,I'm still waiting for something,anything from JHJ and Nellis?



Do you think that hazing and vandalism warrant the same level of fervor?

Time 200 I've said this: somebody died. There's much more reason to believe hazing is bad than there is to be super concerned about some vandalism.


People die all the time, not to make light of this, but the time for action was over a year ago. This still just reaks, you are the only one who refuses to smell it. Even with a parent telling what his children's organization is going through, you stand with a pitchfork wanting blood. And let's keep in mind, that all these people are young adults, and should all be able to make decisions for themselves. Blaming others for your choices is weak minded.
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BillyTheCat
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Member Since: 10/6/2012
Post Count: 6,309

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/4/2019 1:20:38 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
On 10/29/19 The Post ran an Editorial "Suspending Fraternities Comes As No Surprise".
(http://www.thepostathens.com/article/2019/10/editorial-fr... )

It included comments like "It seems the main question to the university should be:
Why didn't this suspension happen sooner ? "

Funny how The Post hasn't reacted with the same fervor to the vandalism of the
fraternity houses over Thanksgiving break.

Then again,I'm still waiting for something,anything from JHJ and Nellis?



Do you think that hazing and vandalism warrant the same level of fervor?

Time 200 I've said this: somebody died.


Yes, everyone is aware that you have said it - like a broken record. Has it ever occured to you though that you are a one man choir?

Anytime there have been acts of vandalism and/or offenive messages painted around campus - bed sheet messages, grafitti wall messsages, etc., the administration has been very quick to condemn them. In this case, it's as if someone has turned off the lights in Cutler Hall.


It's occured to me, yes. That's why I keep asking the mob on the other side to explain why exactly they're so angry. So far, the only person to provide what I'd consider a satisfying answer is Bobcat110, and that's because he has a very personal connection to this. His anger at least makes sense.

Everybody else seemed to make up their minds on day one and have been looking really hard for ways to justify the decision they made before they knew any details.

We've now moved on to The Post not being as upset about spray paint as they are about hazing that led to a death 11 months ago. Before that, this was an anti frat conspiracy. Now the frats are getting treated better and it's an anti 110 conspiracy. We had calls for the Dean to resign before we knew the accusations. We had calls for the Dean to resign because we didn't know the accusations. People wanted heads to roll and they went looking for reasons. Maybe they'll land on a good one in the end, but you see how grasping that is, right?

I still, for the life of me, don't understand the desire and need to be so angry about this. It's like Americans are addicted to outrage.


Only one who appears angry here is you, and probably the parent who is dealing with this. But hey, keep on keeping on
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BillyTheCat
General User

Member Since: 10/6/2012
Post Count: 6,309

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/4/2019 1:21:27 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
On 10/29/19 The Post ran an Editorial "Suspending Fraternities Comes As No Surprise".
(http://www.thepostathens.com/article/2019/10/editorial-fr... )

It included comments like "It seems the main question to the university should be:
Why didn't this suspension happen sooner ? "

Funny how The Post hasn't reacted with the same fervor to the vandalism of the
fraternity houses over Thanksgiving break.

Then again,I'm still waiting for something,anything from JHJ and Nellis?



Do you think that hazing and vandalism warrant the same level of fervor?

Time 200 I've said this: somebody died.


Yes, everyone is aware that you have said it - like a broken record. Has it ever occured to you though that you are a one man choir?

Anytime there have been acts of vandalism and/or offenive messages painted around campus - bed sheet messages, grafitti wall messsages, etc., the administration has been very quick to condemn them. In this case, it's as if someone has turned off the lights in Cutler Hall.


It's occured to me, yes. That's why I keep asking the mob on the other side to explain why exactly they're so angry. So far, the only person to provide what I'd consider a satisfying answer is Bobcat110, and that's because he has a very personal connection to this. His anger at least makes sense.

Everybody else seemed to make up their minds on day one and have been looking really hard for ways to justify the decision they made before they knew any details.

We've now moved on to The Post not being as upset about spray paint as they are about hazing that led to a death 11 months ago. You see how grasping that is, right?

I still, for the life of me, don't understand the desire and need to be so angry about this. It's like Americans are addicted to outrage.


Angry? Being an Ellis Hall alum, I'd think you'd know the meaning of that word. To my knowledge, other than one justified parent, no one has expressed anger. Disappointment? Absolutely. Outrage? Perhaps for some. But anger? Just not seeing it. Many people are growing weary of the trend in higher ed for administrations to act as big brother and totally disregard what in the real world are considered constitutional rights. Organizations like FIRE are finally starting to fight back against that.



+1
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BillyTheCat
General User

Member Since: 10/6/2012
Post Count: 6,309

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/4/2019 1:22:54 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:


We've now moved on to The Post not being as upset about spray paint as they are about hazing that led to a death 11 months ago. Before that, this was an anti frat conspiracy. Now the frats are getting treated better and it's an anti 110 conspiracy. We had calls for the Dean to resign before we knew the accusations. We had calls for the Dean to resign because we didn't know the accusations. People wanted heads to roll and they went looking for reasons. Maybe they'll land on a good one in the end, but you see how grasping that is, right?

I still, for the life of me, don't understand the desire and need to be so angry about this. It's like Americans are addicted to outrage.


First off,The Post Editorial I put up uses last year's death as a backdrop for what is basically a condemnation of Greek Life.

As far as "not being as upset" about this vandalism,the Post doesn't seem upset at all.

The frats are getting treated better,only because their national organizations and now FIRE forced them to be.

As far as the 110,its apparent from the timing of O.U.s'actions that they were intended to cause as much "pain" as possible.
They also don't have a national organization to defend them.
Its especially troubling when the same entity is investigator,prosecutor,judge,jury and executioner.

I feel this whole situation was mishandled from day 1 by JHJ and,by extension,Nellis.

Yes,I am one of those who felt JHJ needs to explain her actions or go.
Still waiting for an explanation.

Their silence speaks volumes.









I'll drop an A-Men!
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
General User

Member Since: 7/30/2010
Post Count: 1,530

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/4/2019 1:57:22 PM 
Robert Fox wrote:
You're position:
-The university did the right thing. Now just wait and see how this plays out.

Others' position (including mine)
-The university acted irrationally and has overstepped, eroding the rights of potentially innocent people.

From those positions, you want to label the second one as "angry" and, I guess, unacceptable.

The fact that some posts have made comments about not giving money, firing the president, whatever. So what? No one, to my knowledge, has acted on those things. It's so much noise on a message board.

It's just differences of opinion.


I agree, it's differences of opinion. I'm really just trying to understand the other opinion -- the one which includes calling for resignations, etc. Because that one seems a much more extreme position.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
General User

Member Since: 7/30/2010
Post Count: 1,530

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/4/2019 2:02:17 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
On 10/29/19 The Post ran an Editorial "Suspending Fraternities Comes As No Surprise".
(http://www.thepostathens.com/article/2019/10/editorial-fr... )

It included comments like "It seems the main question to the university should be:
Why didn't this suspension happen sooner ? "

Funny how The Post hasn't reacted with the same fervor to the vandalism of the
fraternity houses over Thanksgiving break.

Then again,I'm still waiting for something,anything from JHJ and Nellis?



Do you think that hazing and vandalism warrant the same level of fervor?

Time 200 I've said this: somebody died. There's much more reason to believe hazing is bad than there is to be super concerned about some vandalism.


People die all the time, not to make light of this, but the time for action was over a year ago. This still just reaks, you are the only one who refuses to smell it. Even with a parent telling what his children's organization is going through, you stand with a pitchfork wanting blood. And let's keep in mind, that all these people are young adults, and should all be able to make decisions for themselves. Blaming others for your choices is weak minded.


I don't understand how anybody could construe me as "standing with a pitchfork wanting blood." Especially when I'm the one asking people to explain how and why they have felt so justified asking for resignations and assuming a conspiracy against frats from day one. Whose blood am I looking for? Am I calling for resignations? Have I even suggested that I think any of these organizations will be banned?

On the contrary, I predicted that this would ultimately be a "well publicized slap on the wrist" and that the University took these actions in an abundance of caution and to mitigate legal liability. I've made the point all along that this was a purely pragmatic decision on the University's part. They get to be seen as being proactive, the organizations get a slap on the wrist, but ultimately no drastic actions are taken. It has played out exactly that way.

Meanwhile, on page one folks on the other side are calling for resignations and insisting they'll never donate another dime again. And you think my stance is the one that involves a pitchfork and a call for blood? And anger? I don't see it.

Last Edited: 12/4/2019 2:05:08 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Member Since: 7/30/2010
Post Count: 1,530

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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/4/2019 2:14:11 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:

Only one who appears angry here is you, and probably the parent who is dealing with this. But hey, keep on keeping on


You spent like two weeks replying to everything I posted here with the same joke, digging up old threads, analyzing my posting history and purposefully misconstruing my points here to insist I'm on some moral crusade to ban fraternities forever. Hell, there's a whole thread where you, OCF and The Optimist just talked about me.

You know, the way somebody who isn't worked up about all this acts.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Member Since: 7/30/2010
Post Count: 1,530

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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/4/2019 2:31:05 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
On 10/29/19 The Post ran an Editorial "Suspending Fraternities Comes As No Surprise".
(http://www.thepostathens.com/article/2019/10/editorial-fr... )

It included comments like "It seems the main question to the university should be:
Why didn't this suspension happen sooner ? "

Funny how The Post hasn't reacted with the same fervor to the vandalism of the
fraternity houses over Thanksgiving break.

Then again,I'm still waiting for something,anything from JHJ and Nellis?



Do you think that hazing and vandalism warrant the same level of fervor?

Time 200 I've said this: somebody died. There's much more reason to believe hazing is bad than there is to be super concerned about some vandalism.


People die all the time, not to make light of this, but the time for action was over a year ago. This still just reaks, you are the only one who refuses to smell it. Even with a parent telling what his children's organization is going through, you stand with a pitchfork wanting blood. And let's keep in mind, that all these people are young adults, and should all be able to make decisions for themselves. Blaming others for your choices is weak minded.


I dunno, man. I think I'm actually the only one who smells this for what it is. A pragmatic move by the University that puts legal concerns and PR front and center. Were I you, and I just spent weeks insisting this was a conspiracy by the University against fraternities -- all of whom are active and faced no consequences from this -- I wouldn't go bragging about my ability to sniff things out.

I mean, what does this reak (sic) of? Still the conspiracy against frats you were smelling a few weeks ago? What scent are you on now? I'm honestly asking.

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Robert Fox
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Member Since: 11/16/2004
Location: Knoxville, TN
Post Count: 2,039

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/4/2019 2:49:04 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
...a conspiracy by the University against fraternities -- all of whom are active and faced no consequences from this


I don't believe this is true.
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JSF
General User



Member Since: 1/29/2005
Location: Houston, TX
Post Count: 5,514

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/4/2019 2:59:57 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
Has it ever occured to you though that you are a one man choir?


Allow me to disabuse anyone of that notion. I support the choir wholeheartedly.


"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

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Recovering Journalist
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sororities reinstated
   Posted: 12/4/2019 3:10:06 PM 
JSF wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Has it ever occured to you though that you are a one man choir?


Allow me to disabuse anyone of that notion. I support the choir wholeheartedly.


Likewise. I just lack the dedication and patience it takes to really engage in this battle.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/4/2019 3:37:12 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:

Only one who appears angry here is you, and probably the parent who is dealing with this. But hey, keep on keeping on


You spent like two weeks replying to everything I posted here with the same joke, digging up old threads, analyzing my posting history and purposefully misconstruing my points here to insist I'm on some moral crusade to ban fraternities forever. Hell, there's a whole thread where you, OCF and The Optimist just talked about me.

You know, the way somebody who isn't worked up about all this acts.


You are lawfully flattering to yourself.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/4/2019 3:43:20 PM 
Robert Fox wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
...a conspiracy by the University against fraternities -- all of whom are active and faced no consequences from this


I don't believe this is true.


Yeah, maybe a bit hasty. I didn't actually check, but it seems like most if not all have been reinstated. Maybe there were a few stragglers? Honestly, I kind of just based that on Bobcat110 who was saying the frats seem to have gotten off scot-free.
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Bobcat110
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/4/2019 4:41:12 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Robert Fox wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
...a conspiracy by the University against fraternities -- all of whom are active and faced no consequences from this


I don't believe this is true.


Yeah, maybe a bit hasty. I didn't actually check, but it seems like most if not all have been reinstated. Maybe there were a few stragglers? Honestly, I kind of just based that on Bobcat110 who was saying the frats seem to have gotten off scot-free.


Of 23+ organizations pulled into this, five are still under Cease and Desist:

Phi Kappa Psi
Sigma Chi
Alpha Epsilon Pi
Theta Tau (ENGINEERING FRATERNITY ADDED TO CEASE AND DESIST NOVEMBER 1ST)
MARCHING 110


Five organizations were upgraded to Probation:
Lambda Chi Alpha - Two Years
ACACIA - Two Years
Pi Kappa Phi - Two Years
Phi Chi Theta (Business Fraternity) - One Year
Alpha Kappa Psi (Business Fraternity) - One Year


Two organizations were upgraded to Reprimands
Delta Tau Delta
Theta Chi

ALL OTHER ORGANIZATIONS HAVE BEEN FREED TO RESUME NORMAL OPERATIONS

Reprimand - Official notification of unacceptable behavior and violation(s) of the Student Code of Conduct. Any further misconduct may result in more serious disciplinary sanctions.

Probation - Sanction imposed for a designated period of time. Further violation of prohibited conduct as outlined in Part D of the Student Code of Conduct may result in further disciplinary action up to and including suspension or expulsion. Periodic probation meeting may be required. All assigned conditions of sanction must be completed prior to the conclusion of probation.

Last Edited: 12/4/2019 5:18:46 PM by Bobcat110

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Bobcat110
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/4/2019 4:48:53 PM 
Personally, I would have figured the 110 would have been the first organization you would have pushed through this shit show. They were the only organization that you use in all of your marketing, the primary face of your institution, and is actually a class with instructors.

Of course, it didn't hurt that the Greeks have some backing from Nationals and Alumni.

Last Edited: 12/4/2019 4:52:03 PM by Bobcat110

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Bobcat110
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/4/2019 4:56:38 PM 
Here's the link to the Ohio website regarding organizations under some type of discipline. I did not include any organizations that had some type of discipline applied prior to Oct 1st this year.

https://www.ohio.edu/student-org-update
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Three sorority's reinstated
   Posted: 12/4/2019 6:17:49 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:

On 10/29/19 The Post ran an Editorial "Suspending Fraternities Comes As No Surprise".
(http://www.thepostathens.com/article/2019/10/editorial-fr ... )

It included comments like "It seems the main question to the university should be:
Why didn't this suspension happen sooner ? "

Funny how The Post hasn't reacted with the same fervor to the vandalism of the
fraternity houses over Thanksgiving break.

Then again,I'm still waiting for something,anything from JHJ and Nellis.


BillyTheCat has made the point repeatedly that the fraternities should have been suspended after Colin Wiant's death, as well. I think that's a totally fair point and suspect that nobody would've said much about this decision had it been undertaken then.

In fact, I'm honestly not sure what you find so disagreeable about this Editorial. Isn't a big chunk of it in full agreement with you and a whole bunch of people here? Billy has said repeatedly that the frats should have been suspended back then and doing so now is unfair.

The Post Editorial Board said the following:

Quote:

It’s shocking that a student death won’t make the university stop and address the hazing situation, but receiving complaints from more than half the fraternities about hazing will cause a full suspension.


Isn't that the exact same conclusion that Billy's reached and super similar to what you're saying? What are you so opposed to there?

rpbobcat wrote:

First off,The Post Editorial I put up uses last year's death as a backdrop for what is basically a condemnation of Greek Life.


Not sure I agree. In addition to the above points, they ended with this:

Quote:

If fraternities’ ideals surround the notion of brotherhood, why didn’t they take a stand and stop the continued act of hazing when one of their alleged brothers had passed?

Hazing is unnecessary when it comes to proving your loyalty to a group. Fraternity members need to behave in the ideals they promote. Pledges, who are usually freshmen, are easily impressionable and look up to the upperclassmen in the fraternities they want to join.

When it comes down to it, hazing should not be acceptable under any circumstances. And those who are in positions to stop it should do so immediately.


I've now quoted 85% of the piece. Where do you see the condemnation of Greek Life in that?

rpbobcat wrote:

As far as "not being as upset" about this vandalism,the Post doesn't seem upset at all.


Okay. You implied in your initial post that they should be equally upset about these two things. I don't agree. Do you, even? Do you actually think spray paint on a house and hazing are comparable and should warrant equal responses?

rpbobcat wrote:

As far as the 110,its apparent from the timing of O.U.s'actions that they were intended to cause as much "pain" as possible.


See, this is where you all lose me and start to go off the rails. You all are making plenty of valid points, as I've said many times. I, in fact, totally understand the basis of your stance. What I don't understand is the obvious anger (sorry -- "outrage") and extreme reactions. I don't understand the call for resignations, the insistence that money will never be donated again, and the impulse to assume conspiracy and malice.

I mean, isn't there a far more charitable reading of all of this -- even one that aligns entirely with your own perception -- that doesn't necessitate the conclusion that "It's apparent from the timing of OU's actions were intended to cause as much 'pain' as possible"? Isn't the much more obvious answer that the timing of the 110s suspension was a direct result of the national attention and the need to be perceived as treating all accusations equally and not unfairly singling out fraternities? The timing of the 110s suspension matched the timing of every other suspension. That's by far the obvious and likely explanation for the timing of the suspension.

But for some reason you arrive at the conclusion that it was timed to inflict as much pain as possible. You assume malice on the part of the University. Others on your side of this whole thing assume it's a conspiracy. What's behind that impulse?

As I've said, I think that impulse is driven by a desire to try and justify the outrage.

rpbobcat wrote:

I feel this whole situation was mishandled from day 1 by JHJ and,by extension,Nellis.

Yes,I am one of those who felt JHJ needs to explain her actions or go.
Still waiting for an explanation.

Their silence speaks volumes.


What don't you understand about the University's actions at this point? What haven't they explained? Further, is there any explanation that would change your mind? I suspect not. As I pointed out above, you're inclined to assume maliciousness on the University's part. What could the explain further that would move the needle for you?

Last Edited: 12/4/2019 6:23:25 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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