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Topic:  Miami could be quitting the Mac due to budget concerns

Topic:  Miami could be quitting the Mac due to budget concerns
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WeAreMarshall
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  Message Not Read  Miami could be quitting the Mac due to budget concerns
   Posted: 8/28/2010 12:17:48 PM 
Sorry if you guys have already seen this or been aware of it. I was reading one of the Marshall boards when I came across this and wanted to pass it along in case you havent heard.



"If revenue growth of this level is not possible and a 15 percent operating budget cut is required, then we recommend that the university seriously consider our participating in the MAC," the report said."


http://nky.cincinnati.com/article/AB/20100827/NEWS0102/8280313/0/SPT/Report-calls-for-broad-changes-at-MU


Looks like Miami has some big decisions coming down the pipe.

Last Edited: 8/28/2010 12:18:58 PM by WeAreMarshall
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Jeff McKinney
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  Message Not Read  RE: Miami could be quitting the Mac due to budget concerns
   Posted: 8/28/2010 12:25:49 PM 
I doubt if a "campus wide task force" would have the authority to pull Miami out of the MAC. 

It's similar to Ohio.  You know that any "campus wide task force" at Ohio would call for de-emphasis on athletics.  But, in the long run, it's going to be up to the Trustees and the President. 
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The Optimist
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  Message Not Read  RE: Miami could be quitting the Mac due to budget concerns
   Posted: 8/28/2010 12:33:08 PM 
Jeff McKinney wrote:
I doubt if a "campus wide task force" would have the authority to pull Miami out of the MAC. 

It's similar to Ohio.  You know that any "campus wide task force" at Ohio would call for de-emphasis on athletics.  But, in the long run, it's going to be up to the Trustees and the President. 

And the boosters.

I've seen crazier things happen.

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Mike Johnson
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  Message Not Read  Time past due for axe swinging
   Posted: 8/28/2010 12:51:20 PM 
Budgetary ills at most if not all universities could be alleviated if presidents would start swinging the budgetary axe.  For example, Rod McDavis could look at EVERY administrative position at all levels and ask one central question: How much value is this position adding to the university?

Unless my experience has misled me, within a month he could eliminate 30 percent of admin positions and the university likely would be operating more effectively.  Remaining admin staff would find themselves taking 5 to 15 percent pay cuts. 

Is such action at universities unprecedented?  In late '08 or early '09 Stanford's Graduate School of Business, seeing its endowment take a significant hit, laid off 20 percent of its admin staff.

Last Edited: 8/28/2010 12:54:03 PM by Mike Johnson

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Athens Block
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  Message Not Read  RE: Time past due for axe swinging
   Posted: 8/28/2010 1:29:13 PM 
From my understanding Ohio has been laying off administrators and forcing pay-cuts for two years now.  It's getting to a place where there simply isn't anywhere left to cut. You can only do "more with less" for so long until things start slipping because there aren't enough people to get the jobs done.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Time past due for axe swinging
   Posted: 8/28/2010 2:37:33 PM 
Sometimes I see things like this and contemplate the "gamesmanship" involved. For example, when a public school system wants more money, they will often threaten to eliminate the gifted programs. Why? Because they know that the wealthy parents, many of whom may have gifted students, will then find a way to increase the budget so that these programs continue. Perhaps a threat to abandon the MAC is being done as a way of coaxing money out of rich donors who will fight the possible loss of the tradition-rich Division I-A football program by finding enough donations to keep the program in place. Thus Miami could divert money from football to elsewhere, and have that money replaced by donations.

So, is it a genuine possibility? Or gamesmanship to coax money from football-loving donors? I don't know.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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Robert Fox
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  Message Not Read  RE: Time past due for axe swinging
   Posted: 8/28/2010 3:21:50 PM 
I thought the same thing, LC. In Tennessee, whenever school budgets come into question, there is often a very public announcement that the football program and/or bus service may need to be eliminated. Scare tactics...
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Ohio69
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  Message Not Read  RE: Time past due for axe swinging
   Posted: 8/28/2010 3:28:03 PM 
Mike Johnson wrote:
Budgetary ills at most if not all universities could be alleviated if presidents would start swinging the budgetary axe.  For example, Rod McDavis could look at EVERY administrative position at all levels and ask one central question: How much value is this position adding to the university?

Unless my experience has misled me, within a month he could eliminate 30 percent of admin positions and the university likely would be operating more effectively.  Remaining admin staff would find themselves taking 5 to 15 percent pay cuts. 

Is such action at universities unprecedented?  In late '08 or early '09 Stanford's Graduate School of Business, seeing its endowment take a significant hit, laid off 20 percent of its admin staff.



Yeah, lay off 600 non-faculty employees and the university will run better.  That's the ticket.
 
If this would work, why hasn't every university in the country done it?  

 

Last Edited: 8/28/2010 3:29:39 PM by Ohio69

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

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Stand_Up_And_Cheer
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  Message Not Read  RE: Time past due for axe swinging
   Posted: 8/28/2010 8:03:02 PM 
L.C. wrote:
Sometimes I see things like this and contemplate the "gamesmanship" involved...


I thought the same thing too.
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Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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  Message Not Read  RE: Time past due for axe swinging
   Posted: 8/28/2010 8:22:13 PM 
Mike Johnson wrote:
Budgetary ills at most if not all universities could be alleviated if presidents would start swinging the budgetary axe.  For example, Rod McDavis could look at EVERY administrative position at all levels and ask one central question: How much value is this position adding to the university?

Unless my experience has misled me, within a month he could eliminate 30 percent of admin positions and the university likely would be operating more effectively.  Remaining admin staff would find themselves taking 5 to 15 percent pay cuts. 

Is such action at universities unprecedented?  In late '08 or early '09 Stanford's Graduate School of Business, seeing its endowment take a significant hit, laid off 20 percent of its admin staff.


You're thinking far too small. I think moving the University to Calcutta and privatizing would bring even larger savings and growth opportunities. Find a nice tax hideaway in the Caymans, the school would be set.  Jack Welch could take over as President...


Last Edited: 8/28/2010 8:27:54 PM by Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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Mike Johnson
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  Message Not Read  RE: Time past due for axe swinging
   Posted: 8/28/2010 11:00:18 PM 
Ohio69 wrote:
Mike Johnson wrote:
Budgetary ills at most if not all universities could be alleviated if presidents would start swinging the budgetary axe.  For example, Rod McDavis could look at EVERY administrative position at all levels and ask one central question: How much value is this position adding to the university?

Unless my experience has misled me, within a month he could eliminate 30 percent of admin positions and the university likely would be operating more effectively.  Remaining admin staff would find themselves taking 5 to 15 percent pay cuts. 

Is such action at universities unprecedented?  In late '08 or early '09 Stanford's Graduate School of Business, seeing its endowment take a significant hit, laid off 20 percent of its admin staff.



Yeah, lay off 600 non-faculty employees and the university will run better.  That's the ticket.
 
If this would work, why hasn't every university in the country done it?  



Several reasons.  A central one is that many if not most university presidents are ill-equipped to lead large, complex organizations with budgets in the hundreds of millions.  Until recent years universities were riding the economic waves of prosperity.  Presidents, or those aspiring to be presidents, accumulated no experience leading an organization through tough economic times.  Consider OU's recent presidents.  Charley Ping has three degrees in philosophy.  Bob Glidden three degrees in  music.  Rod McDavis three degrees in education.  Not the sort of resume to equip a leader to make tough financial and administrative decisions.  They lack the experience, stomach and savvy to lead effectively in a difficult financial environment.  They are slow to act or react and when they do they do so less decisively.  They weren't "bred" to be brutal when being brutal is necessary. 

Stanford's GSB moved quickly to slash staff in large part, I believe, because its dean had led Wells Fargo.  In addition numerous of his faculty had plenty of real-world experience.  One for example for years served on the board of Continental Airlines and knew plenty about leading in tough times. 

Experience.  How crucial is it to effectively leading, especially in difficult times?  I recall chatting with Timken's soon-to-retire CEO a few months before I exited corporatedom to embark on the book-writing path.  The topic: experience. Here is what he said, pretty close to verbatim.  "When I was a young man and someone talked about the importance of experience, I tended to pooh-pooh it.  I was smart, confident and ambitious.  But about ten years ago, I started to realize the importance of experience.  It enables you to see issues more broadly and more clearly.  I wish I'd gotten smarter sooner."



http://www.facebook.com/mikejohnson.author

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Ohio69
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  Message Not Read  RE: Time past due for axe swinging
   Posted: 8/29/2010 2:15:07 AM 
Good golly Mr. Johnson.  Not only did you just insult the intelligence of 3 OU presidents, but every single Board of Trustee member in the last 30 years.  

Oh my.

Those Board of Trustees the last 30 years.  Yeah, that's a group of dummies with no business sense.

The Standord GSB is a dinky little place.  The comparison is completely lacking.  Let me know when the Stanford GSB dean has to handle 20,000 students, 11 colleges and 11 deans of those colleges, 42 dorms, another 150 buildings, 1,800 acres of land, HRIS system, SIS systems, unions, liberal arts faculty, 250 undergraduate programs, 150,000 alums, community relations, government relations, media relations, fundraising for those 250 undergraduate programs, and etc.

If only all college presidents spent time on the farm.  They'd know all you need to do to fix academia is give 30% of the staff the axe, the axe, the axe, in the neck, the neck, the neck.

Then, an OU education would be as inexpensive as going to Stanford......




Last Edited: 8/29/2010 2:42:39 AM by Ohio69

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

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Mike Johnson
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  Message Not Read  RE: Time past due for axe swinging
   Posted: 8/29/2010 9:39:54 AM 
Ohio69 wrote:
Good golly Mr. Johnson.  Not only did you just insult the intelligence of 3 OU presidents, but every single Board of Trustee member in the last 30 years.  

Oh my.

Those Board of Trustees the last 30 years.  Yeah, that's a group of dummies with no business sense.

The Standord GSB is a dinky little place.  The comparison is completely lacking.  Let me know when the Stanford GSB dean has to handle 20,000 students, 11 colleges and 11 deans of those colleges, 42 dorms, another 150 buildings, 1,800 acres of land, HRIS system, SIS systems, unions, liberal arts faculty, 250 undergraduate programs, 150,000 alums, community relations, government relations, media relations, fundraising for those 250 undergraduate programs, and etc.

If only all college presidents spent time on the farm.  They'd know all you need to do to fix academia is give 30% of the staff the axe, the axe, the axe, in the neck, the neck, the neck.

Then, an OU education would be as inexpensive as going to Stanford......


Good  morning, Ohio69.

Your acerbic reactions to my posts in this thread suggest I've touched a certain sensitive nerve. (If only all college presidents spent time on the farm.  They'd know all you need to do to fix academia is give 30% of the staff the axe, the axe, the axe, in the neck, the neck, the neck.)  Ohio69's reference to "the farm" goes to Stanford's nickname which grows from its origins as a stock farm. 

In my initial post in this thread I posited that a 30% reduction in staff would alleviate, not eliminate, budgetary ills.  Pay cuts also would help. 

A reasonably careful reading of those posts shows I've not insulted any president's intelligence - unless you equate intelligence with experience and experience-fed aptitude for leading in tough times.   The two qualities can be linked but often - as is the case with many if not most university presidents - aren't. 

Your recitation of the range of responsibiities of an OU president underscores my belief that OU presidents - and many other university presidents - are not sufficiiently equipped by dint of education and experience to effectively lead complex organizations in tough economic times. 

http://www.facebook.com/mikejohnson.author

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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Time past due for axe swinging
   Posted: 8/29/2010 10:08:45 AM 
Michael: OU presidents, of course, don't have the option of sending jobs to China and Mexico, as do leaders at Timken. An option they have relied on quite readily in recent years.

As for Charlie Ping's three degrees in philosophy, they helped him save a university mired in financial crisis.
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Athens Block
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  Message Not Read  RE: Time past due for axe swinging
   Posted: 8/29/2010 12:22:34 PM 
http://www.athensnews.com/ohio/article-30746-ous-proposed...

http://www.athensnews.com/ohio/article-25982-ou-president...

http://www.athensnews.com/ohio/article-24881-mcdavis-anno...


Again Mike.... McDavis has been doing this for 2 years now.  The problem is there simply isn't anywhere else to go now... most of the fat has been cut in the last couple of years... if more positions are eliminated then you start running into things not getting done. 
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Pete Chouteau
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  Message Not Read  RE: Time past due for axe swinging
   Posted: 8/29/2010 2:41:29 PM 
I have to laugh at loud at the concept of threatening membership in this Mid American Conference as a call to action for well heeled alumni to step up financially.

"If you kids don't start behaving, I'm going to turn this car around and cancel this trip to the manure farm!"
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Mike Johnson
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  Message Not Read  RE: Time past due for axe swinging
   Posted: 8/29/2010 6:05:08 PM 
SBH wrote:
Michael: OU presidents, of course, don't have the option of sending jobs to China and Mexico, as do leaders at Timken. An option they have relied on quite readily in recent years.

As for Charlie Ping's three degrees in philosophy, they helped him save a university mired in financial crisis.



SBH, it seems possible that you share a view held by many Americans about the nature of expanding businesses abroad.

Here are the facts re Timken in China.  In 1997 Timken won the privilege of privatizing a Chinese manufacturing operation in Yantai whose products were sold exclusively in China.  Subsequently Timken has opened several more facilities in China, and virtually all those products are sold in China.  Those products and the attendant jobs not only have not taken away jobs in America they have added jobs here.  How so?  The company's expanding presence in China has created more export opportunities for its U.S. facilities - a pattern often experienced by global companies.  Underlying that export growth: increasing credibility among customers based in China and other nations. 

Question: What if Timken had not privatized or built facilities in China?  Would such abstinence have created or preserved more American jobs?  That's an easy one.  Absent establishing a "footprint" in China and building credibility with Chinese customers, Timken would not only not have succeeded in China, it would have cost jobs in America.

The days - years - when a U.S.-based company can expect to keep growing globally without establishing facilities in customers' home countries are long gone.  Indeed, in traveling to Singapore to research my new book, I visited the site where British forces surrendered to the Japanese - a Ford Motor Company plant built there back in the 1920s. 

Mexico.  Timken has never manufactured product in Mexico.  It has had a distribution facility there - for products made elsewhere, including the U.S. - for many years.

At this juncture, I will open myself - and U.S.-based companies - to a reality that is difficult if not impossible to dismiss.  I am alluding to the decision to operate in a communist-led nation where human rights are regularly trampled. 



http://www.facebook.com/mikejohnson.author

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Pete Chouteau
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  Message Not Read  RE: Time past due for axe swinging
   Posted: 8/29/2010 8:14:53 PM 
In an effort to bring this discussion back to the place it deserves to be...

Miami sucks.
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Jughead
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  Message Not Read  RE: Time past due for axe swinging
   Posted: 8/29/2010 8:31:21 PM 
Pete Chouteau wrote:
In an effort to bring this discussion back to the place it deserves to be...

Miami sucks.

Thank yOU!

Rooting for Akron is like cheering on the Taliban.
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Bobcat36
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  Message Not Read  RE: Time past due for axe swinging
   Posted: 8/30/2010 12:42:47 PM 
Pete Chouteau wrote:
I have to laugh at loud at the concept of threatening membership in this Mid American Conference as a call to action for well heeled alumni to step up financially.

"If you kids don't start behaving, I'm going to turn this car around and cancel this trip to the manure farm!"


Thank you for this as well Pete!  Quite true my good man...

GoBobcats!!!!            Always have been and always will be... Ohio's First and Finest!

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Bert Presley
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  Message Not Read  RE: Time past due for axe swinging
   Posted: 8/30/2010 6:01:12 PM 
listen if they leave the MAC, then why are we in? Seriously Toledo, BUGS, Kron, and Can't State are that big of rivals for us?

I am and forever will be the Wizard of OU.

DocBobcat was my Principal; and is still one cool Cat.

OHIO BOBCATS 2011,2012 MAC EAST FOOTBALL CHAMPIONS
                               2012 Independence Bowl Champions
                               2012 Famous Idaho Potato Bowl Champions
                               2011 MAC Tournament Champions (Field Hockey)
                               2012 MAC Tournament Champions (Mens Basketball)
                               2012 NCAA Tournament Sweet 16 (Mens Basketball)
                            


 
 
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Maryland Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Time past due for axe swinging
   Posted: 8/31/2010 12:25:27 PM 
The problem starts and ends with tenured professors. Why continue to lower the salaries and cut admin staff across the board when all unversities have a certain amount professors who clearly don't provide any positive return or actually do anything. It's the marketing, PR, communications, IT, fiscal, and HR admin groups that keep the university functioning and keep revenue coming in. Is there waste? Sure, every large organization has some level of waste, but universities across teh country, and especially private university as their endowment funds decrease, are cutting admin jobs and freezing salaries, which only makes it tougher to generate revenue in the long run. Meanwhile, there are a certain amount on untouchable tenured professors pulling in salaries higher than what their productivity indicates they should be making. Not only that, but because they are untouchable they can go say and do whatever they feel like causing more work for PR and communications folks.

Last Edited: 8/31/2010 12:26:23 PM by Maryland Bobcat
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davepi2
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  Message Not Read  RE: Time past due for axe swinging
   Posted: 9/1/2010 7:47:37 AM 
Forgive me if this was mentioned before and I missed it but didn't last year bgsu make similer threats as a publicity gimmick. If I remember right they were threatening to go to d2. Haven't heard much about that especially when I get ticket advertisements from them as I did earlier this week.
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Time past due for axe swinging
   Posted: 9/1/2010 10:14:21 AM 
Let me start off by saying that I run a small engineering/surveying company in northern N.J.
I'm also chariman of Fairleigh Dickinson University's "Indutrial Advisory Committee" for
Civil and Construction Engineering Technology.
Our committee is tasked,in part, with working with the University to improve the quality of the
engineering curriculums.
In conjunction with this,we meet with representatives of engineering and heavy construction
companies to see what they are looking for in graduates.
Over the years we've made a number of suggestions  to improve both the College of Engineering and
Unversity in general.
A number of these suggestions could also cut costs.

1.Reduce the number of degree programs.There seem to be a number of degree programs that,
    based on the number of students,are not "cost effective".Fewer degrees,fewer professors and
    administrators and  degrees that actully "mean" something.

  2.Reduce/eliminate "Certificates".I don't know about other fields,but the engineering companies
    and heavy  construction contractors we've spoken to,don't seem to take them into account in hiring or
    giving raises or promotions.

3.Reduce "core" classes to subjects evey student can actually use like English,basic math and general
    "civics" (U.S. history/government).Then the  students can take more classes in their field of study.
   There's a running joke,that the only reason they keep the majority of "core" classes is to keep
    liberal arts professors employed.
   
4.Counsel students on their degree choice,including,letting them know what their job prospects
    are in their proposed field of study.

From my experience there is also a lot of  "mid management" in academices that either  isn't needed
or duplicate/similar postions that could be combined.

It also seems that a number professors spend very little time actually teaching.While there is
no question that research is important to a University,during the academic year a professor's primary function
should be to teach.Again,if your tenured professors are in the classroom,you don't need to hire as
many adjuncts.

Just my $.0.02
    



Last Edited: 9/1/2010 10:18:02 AM by rpbobcat
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Monroe Slavin
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  Message Not Read  RE: Time past due for axe swinging
   Posted: 9/1/2010 10:59:32 AM 
Getting back to the original title of this thread, I thought redhawk had already left the MAC.  Has there been any evidence of them at all--any W's in anything meaningful--lately?

Where's the band?!
WHERE"S THE BAND?!


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