Welcome Guest! Create an Account login email: password: remember me: BASKETBALL Latest News News Archive Schedule/Results Multi-Media Recruiting FOOTBALL Latest News News Archive Schedule/Results Multi-Media Recruiting MESSAGE BOARD Message Home - Ohio Basketball - Ohio Basketball Recruiting - The O Zone - Ohio Football - Ohio Football Recruiting - Ohio Volleyball - Ohio Baseball - Ohio Olympic Sports... - General OU Discussion... - Website Feedback... - Posting Policy Edit My Profile Private Messages Logout CHAT LINKS site searchcontact usabout usadvertise with ushelp Message Board BobcatAttack.com Message Board Ohio Football Topic:  Depth Topic:  Depth Author Message L.C. General User Member Since: 8/31/2005 Location: United States Post Count: 10,499 Status: Offline     Depth    Posted: 9/1/2010 3:08:20 PM  I remember when I first came to this site reading that the biggest difference between a program like Ohio and one of the top ten programs was depth. Ohio some good players, but the quality dropped off fast below the first team.I remember the first few teams, and that was certainly true. It no longer is true, and I think that's probably the biggest difference between 2010 and 2005. The top players may be a bit better than the 2005 team, but the second and third teamers today are much better than existed previously. Given that football is a game with a lot of injuries, and given that you really need a good substitution rotation at some positions, that makes a huge difference by the end of the year. Does anyone have any thoughts on why the depth today is so much better? I came up with the following plausible reasons: 1. Recruiting - Less players are recruited today that are total bombs. Not all recruits turn out to be stars, but these das virtually everyone that is recruited eventually contributes in some way. In most recent years only 1-2 players end up never playing. 2. Walkons - The walkon program is starting to consistently produce players that help the program. Under Grobe walkons were important, and walkons contributed under Knorr as well, but the last couple years we seem to have seen and increase in them contributing. Walkons, or former walkons listed in the top 2 strings against Wofford include George Batsakes, Nathan Caldwell, Kevin Culver, Eric Benjamin, Chad Clemens, Dak Notestine, Paul Hershey, and Jeremey LaVoie. No doubt there are quite a few more that are third team as well. 3. Better player development - Perhaps the lower level players are getting better coaching, allowing them a better chance to develop into a player that can contribute. 4. Better conditioning - Perhaps there has been improvement here, that is helping to develop a solid team? I know that the program allowing players to stay over the summer has to help, for example. 5. Better morale - Perhaps the morale of the team is higher, and the lower players feel more drive and opportunity to move to the top? It seems to me that there is probably no one single cause, but if I had to pick one, it would probably be #1. More likely is that all of these are factors. In any case it certainly is true that the depth is dramatically better.  For example, 5 offensive linemen that I expected to contribute this year will not (Pinder - grades, Bunner-retired, Laudermilch-injured, Flowers-injured, Davis-homesick), yet I still feel Ohio will have a solid offensive line. “We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus Back to Top John C. Wanamaker General User Member Since: 1/2/2005 Post Count: 1,103 Status: Offline     RE: Depth    Posted: 9/1/2010 3:10:34 PM  L.C. wrote: I remember when I first came to this site reading that the biggest difference between a program like Ohio and one of the top ten programs was depth. Ohio some good players, but the quality dropped off fast below the first team.I remember the first few teams, and that was certainly true. It no longer is true, and I think that's probably the biggest difference between 2010 and 2005. The top players may be a bit better than the 2005 team, but the second and third teamers today are much better than existed previously. Given that football is a game with a lot of injuries, and given that you really need a good substitution rotation at some positions, that makes a huge difference by the end of the year. Does anyone have any thoughts on why the depth today is so much better? I came up with the following plausible reasons: 1. Recruiting - Less players are recruited today that are total bombs. Not all recruits turn out to be stars, but these das virtually everyone that is recruited eventually contributes in some way. In most recent years only 1-2 players end up never playing. 2. Walkons - The walkon program is starting to consistently produce players that help the program. Under Grobe walkons were important, and walkons contributed under Knorr as well, but the last couple years we seem to have seen and increase in them contributing. Walkons, or former walkons listed in the top 2 strings against Wofford include George Batsakes, Nathan Caldwell, Kevin Culver, Eric Benjamin, Chad Clemens, Dak Notestine, Paul Hershey, and Jeremey LaVoie. No doubt there are quite a few more that are third team as well. 3. Better player development - Perhaps the lower level players are getting better coaching, allowing them a better chance to develop into a player that can contribute. 4. Better conditioning - Perhaps there has been improvement here, that is helping to develop a solid team? I know that the program allowing players to stay over the summer has to help, for example. 5. Better morale - Perhaps the morale of the team is higher, and the lower players feel more drive and opportunity to move to the top? It seems to me that there is probably no one single cause, but if I had to pick one, it would probably be #1. More likely is that all of these are factors. In any case it certainly is true that the depth is dramatically better.  For example, 5 offensive linemen that I expected to contribute this year will not (Pinder - grades, Bunner-retired, Laudermilch-injured, Flowers-injured, Davis-homesick), yet I still feel Ohio will have a solid offensive line. I think you still have a sizable difference at most positions from the 1's to the 2's.  Let us not get carried away with the scope of the talent in our #1's, they are vastly improving, but he we have not won anything yet. "Half the money I spend on advertising is wasted; the trouble is I don't know which half." Back to Top D.A. General User Member Since: 8/6/2010 Location: Georgetown, ME Post Count: 1,190 Status: Offline     RE: Depth    Posted: 9/1/2010 3:18:07 PM  I would say that the reduction in schollies to 85 has led to more parity.  However that applies across the board, not just Ohio's improvement.  Then I would go with the hiring of Frank and then insert the remainder of your logic to follow. The Few, The Proud, The Bobcats! And for the record, I hate tOSU, and Ricordati and Torgerson are DB's. "This isn't just another walkover from the MAC." Kirk Herbstreit, another DB, on College Football Gameday Back to Top Cat4ever General User Member Since: 12/29/2007 Location: Oakland, FL Post Count: 447 Status: Offline     RE: Depth    Posted: 9/1/2010 4:17:55 PM  LC, JCW and DA, IMHO, you all are correct. JCW, your words of caution are so "spot on." The only thing that is a fact is that nothing is a fact. If this statement is true, it is also false.                   --Dr. Donald Horning, circa 1965 Back to Top Kevin Finnegan General User Member Since: 2/4/2005 Location: Rockton, IL Post Count: 1,169 Status: Offline     RE: Depth    Posted: 9/1/2010 5:21:05 PM  I think that part of the depth may come from the fact that we rarely have positions set in stone going into a new season.  Every player can legitimately feel as though they're going to get a chance to contribute, leading them to put forth the effort to stay focused throughout their time at Ohio.  Players offered scholarships (at any depth) by Ohio probably hasn't changed too much over the past five years, however the mindset probably has.  I know that when I was at Ohio (late Grobe years, early Knorr years), I knew a number of players who were just collecting their scholarship but knew that their chance of really being a playmaker was slim.  Now, no matter if you were first-string last year or third-string, you may go into camp thinking that this could be your chance.  By having Solich play so many players and not seeming to play "favorites" with the kids, everybody can buy into the program and stay committed throughout the duration of their time at Ohio. Back to Top colobobcat66 General User Member Since: 9/1/2006 Location: Watching the bobcats run outside my window., CO Post Count: 4,552 Status: Offline     RE: Depth    Posted: 9/1/2010 5:40:12 PM  My take on the depth (not just names on the roster but experience or can't miss guys ready to play at this level)is that we are deeper at wide receiver and in the defensive backfield than in 2005.  I don't see it elsewhere-Offensive line, running back, kicker, punter, tight end, fullback- to name a few rather shallow places.  We don't have depth there and I don't really care how we got there, we just don't have it.  I guess you can say-well we had all these losses and we still have some talented people left-OK I kinda buy that. I also think that we are currently going after more JC guys to fill holes immediately and we've done pretty good overall. LC-you may be the expert on these things, but it sure seems like a whole lot more than 1-2 a year recently-(maybe 4-5 would be more like it) Back to Top L.C. General User Member Since: 8/31/2005 Location: United States Post Count: 10,499 Status: Offline     RE: Depth    Posted: 9/1/2010 6:18:11 PM  colorado, it probably depends on how you count them. For example, do you count guys that never showed up at all? Or guys that played some, but then got injured? In the 2005 class, Farley never showed, and Mellot left very soon after coming. Among the rest of the class, I'd say that everyone else contributed.  In the 2006 class D'Aguanno left quickly, and Black was injured and never able to play, but you also had Karr, Reese, and Hubbard that didn't play much, if at all. In 2007 Hightower and Pinder had eligibility issues, but pretty much everyone else played except O'Hara who transferred and Spegal who was injured. The later classes aren't much different, but it's early to tell as they still have a lot of eligibility left. “We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus Back to Top colobobcat66 General User Member Since: 9/1/2006 Location: Watching the bobcats run outside my window., CO Post Count: 4,552 Status: Offline     RE: Depth    Posted: 9/1/2010 6:46:54 PM  L.C. wrote: colorado, it probably depends on how you count them. For example, do you count guys that never showed up at all? Or guys that played some, but then got injured? In the 2005 class, Farley never showed, and Mellot left very soon after coming. Among the rest of the class, I'd say that everyone else contributed.  In the 2006 class D'Aguanno left quickly, and Black was injured and never able to play, but you also had Karr, Reese, and Hubbard that didn't play much, if at all. In 2007 Hightower and Pinder had eligibility issues, but pretty much everyone else played except O'Hara who transferred and Spegal who was injured. The later classes aren't much different, but it's early to tell as they still have a lot of eligibility left. I count them several ways-#1 did they show up? #2 are they still here and not yet played #3 have they played? #4 did they show up, play and leave before their class (4-5 years) graduates/? #5 did they play and stay till their class graduated? FWIW Hightower was also in the 2006 class. 2007-Sweeney didn't play much right? For instance in the 2009 class, I see 9 guys who were signed on 2/4/09 who are gone.  That seems like a lot and I really don't care why they left, but signing a guy and having him not qualify and/or not show up for some other reason is a significant mistake to me because they took up a roster spot which could have been taken by someone else on signing day.  I'll give a little leeway to a guy like Ashley this year because of his upside but not a lot. I will say that we have had several guys go back home because they didn't fit in or wanted to go back to the beach or a girlfriend or whatever and that is going to happen and the staff has noted that and is being more careful in making sure the guys know what they're getting into in Athens and that's good. Last Edited: 9/1/2010 6:48:02 PM by colobobcat66 Back to Top L.C. General User Member Since: 8/31/2005 Location: United States Post Count: 10,499 Status: Offline     RE: Depth    Posted: 9/2/2010 6:31:12 PM  I more or less agree with you, but I think it's worth pointing out that when they signed Hightower to the 2007 class, and he turned out not to be eligible, they were able to replace him before the fall camp with Matt Donahue, who did play. Thus that scholarship was never wasted - it was used on someone who was a valuable contributor. We've seen the same thing with other guys who weren't eligible being replaced with other late additions. The thing that hurts your depth is when you have a guy that hangs around for four years, yet never plays. The ones that come and go quickly aren't the problem, unless there are too many of them. “We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus Back to Top Bcat2 General User Member Since: 7/6/2010 Post Count: 4,295 Status: Offline     RE: Depth    Posted: 9/2/2010 9:21:07 PM  These days parents don't tell their kids to stick it out for a year or even a semester. Kid is unhappy, wants out, calls mom, mom says "poor baby, come home to mommy." I am sure most regret it later, kid and mom. Arkansas State held a summer orientation prior to my son's freshman year and broke the students and parents into separate groups. An advisor laid it on the line for us parents. Most kids experience frustration, homesickness, etc., but, it is almost always a regretable mistake to let them quit before they at least finish the term they started. My boy did not call to quit, we had already been thru that when he was much younger and wanted to quit martial arts with a brown belt. He is now starting his junior year, covering it all with an ROTC scholarship, living off campus with his mates, he asks us for nothing. I just bought a new truck with some of the money we saved for his school. "Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK Back to Top Doc Bobcat General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Post Count: 4,285 Status: Offline     RE: Depth    Posted: 9/2/2010 10:46:31 PM   I just bought a new truck with some of the money we saved for his school. That's a wonderful rationale for this year.....kinda sucks for next year when you consider that college grads get upper double figures and lower triple figures on the low end average. Back to Top Bcat2 General User Member Since: 7/6/2010 Post Count: 4,295 Status: Offline     RE: Depth    Posted: 9/3/2010 7:57:21 AM  Doc Bobcat wrote: I just bought a new truck with some of the money we saved for his school. That's a wonderful rationale for this year.....kinda sucks for next year when you consider that college grads get upper double figures and lower triple figures on the low end average. Doc, I don't think we are communicating. My boy is still in school, progressing nicely, all on his own. He will graduate, knows where his first pay check will come from and his mom and I will now put money we saved for his school back into the economy. What sucks? "Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK Back to Top Doc Bobcat General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Post Count: 4,285 Status: Offline     RE: Depth    Posted: 9/3/2010 9:51:33 AM  Bcat2 wrote: Doc Bobcat wrote: I just bought a new truck with some of the money we saved for his school. That's a wonderful rationale for this year.....kinda sucks for next year when you consider that college grads get upper double figures and lower triple figures on the low end average. Doc, I don't think we are communicating. My boy is still in school, progressing nicely, all on his own. He will graduate, knows where his first pay check will come from and his mom and I will now put money we saved for his school back into the economy. What sucks? Sorry......misread......or as W said....I misremembered what I read. Last Edited: 9/3/2010 11:11:34 AM by Doc Bobcat Back to Top Monroe Slavin General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Oxnard, CA Post Count: 9,121 Status: Offline     RE: Depth    Posted: 9/3/2010 10:32:04 AM  Doc Bobcat wrote:  I just bought a new truck with some of the money we saved for his school. That's a wonderful rationale for this year.....kinda sucks for next year when you consider that college grads get upper double figures and lower triple figures on the low end average. Doc was misquoted here. Where's the band?! WHERE"S THE BAND?! DesignspiritUSA.com The Pets On The Go Collection of pet gear travel bags The Holiday Tote Bigg Bagg Collection--over-sized, reversible, extra pockets; now love carrying packages as much as you love shopping! Back to Top Showing Replies:   1 - 14  of 14 Posts Jump to Page:   1 View Other 'Ohio Football' Topics                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               WHO'S ONLINE There are 240 Active Visitors on BobcatAttack.com 240 Guests 0 Registered Users There are no other users looking at this page.

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