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Topic: Time to replace Tim Albin.

Topic: Time to replace Tim Albin.

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Deciduous Forest Cat
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Time to replace Tim Albin.

Posted: 9/12/2010 12:56:41 AM

If the blame does not go squarely on the shoulders of the OC, then it goes one level above.

Sorry. 6 years in the program and we still haven't put together a consistent offense. or even any kind of offensive identity. Today was horrible and despicable to watch. Let's think about where we were when we started in 2005, versus now. Are we better off offensively? Sure, we've diversified, and we've had a few banner offensive games to hang our hats on, but all they do is serve to make us think we're better than we are. The Temple game last year had us all fooled. We are NOT a good offensive football team, and we haven't been since 2000. No identity. Pick the one thing we do really well, if you dare.

John C. Wanamaker
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RE: Time to replace Tim Albin.

Posted: 9/12/2010 1:11:49 AM

Albin is Co-Coordinator. At least you could get the titles and duties correct.

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Mike Coleman
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RE: Time to replace Tim Albin.

Posted: 9/12/2010 6:29:47 AM

Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:

Pick the one thing we do really well, if you dare.

False starts.

John C. Wanamaker
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RE: Time to replace Tim Albin.

Posted: 9/12/2010 11:49:37 AM

Mike Coleman wrote:

Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:

Pick the one thing we do really well, if you dare.

False starts.

ROTFLMAO

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GoCats105
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RE: Time to replace Tim Albin.

Posted: 9/12/2010 2:58:07 PM

I've been saying this ever since we lost Kalvin McRae.

OUcats82
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RE: Time to replace Tim Albin.

Posted: 9/13/2010 6:35:29 PM

I agree with these thoughts........we have the most anonymous offense. No scheme, no strength, non consistency.

Back in the Grobe/Knorr era we knew we were an option-offense, when it worked it worked great, when it didn't, well go to the stacks at Alden Library and peruse the title "Ohio Bobcat Football History, Volume 2001: The Knorr Wilderness". It was definitely antiquated and lost its potency thus its abandonment. But there was at least a deliberate approach, a certain kind of talent brought in to operate in it and a commitment to it.

Now I feel like the coaches pick like 8 plays and download them to some kind of online magic 8-ball. Hmm.....3rd down and 6...give the ball a good shake.....

While we are on this subject...........

Is anyone else a little disappointed that we have not really (maybe short of Kalvin) recruited a key offensive player out of high school, groomed him in our system and developed him into a household name across the MAC at the level that Pennington was at Marshall, LeFeavor (sp?-apologies to Chips fans) or even, gasp, Roethlisberger at Miami?

If you had to nominate an Ohio offensive skill player to the MAC All-Decade 1st Team who would it be and how confident are you they would make the squad?

I loved players like Brinker, Everson or even Dontrell Jackson (Grobe years), for their grit and play, but honestly how many people outside of Athens knew about them?

Last Edited: 9/13/2010 6:36:52 PM by OUcats82

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GoCats105
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RE: Time to replace Tim Albin.

Posted: 9/13/2010 7:36:04 PM

I would probably say McRae and Taylor Price are worthy of it, but they still might not make the team because of the other great players in the conferece. This is especially true at wide receiver. They might make an All-Decade 2nd or 3rd team.

John C. Wanamaker
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RE: Time to replace Tim Albin.

Posted: 9/13/2010 9:01:45 PM

OUcats82 wrote:

Did you watch the Knorr years? Navy ran more option in pre-game saturday than Knorr ran in four years.

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L.C.
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RE: Time to replace Tim Albin.

Posted: 9/13/2010 10:29:30 PM

I have to say that I don't like the Ohio offense at all. If it worked, I'd have nothing to complain about, but I don't think Toledo was a great defensive ball club, and I don't think they were making brilliant defensive plays. I just think that the plays Ohio is running are a bad scheme. The running plays are all too slow to develop, and the pass plays always involve tough throws into traffic. The plays don't even really ever look like they are going to work. Against Toledo I watched the plays developing, and nothing ever looked like a potential big gainer, much less was one. Frankly, the one time I liked the way the offense looked was the one drive they ran mostly option. I think that Ohio got most of its first downs for the game on that drive.

I think Ohio has enough players, and even perhaps the right players, to run the option as a core offense. I'd personally rather see that than the hodge-podge of stuff they are running. I'd also like to see a lot more of a vertical passing game, with more deep routes. Using some quick-hitting runs would create more potential for success in the play-action passes, and we could maybe see some of those deep routes.

Still, I'm not the Offensive Coordinator. I'm just some spectator who thinks he knows more than he does. The Offensive Coordinator, or in this case, the co-coordinators (Albin, Gdowski) are paid the big bucks to design an offense that works. If they can't, they should be held accountable. The defense is looking good, and played a great game against Toledo. If they offense was playing as well as the defense, Ohio would roll through the MAC easily.

Last Edited: 9/13/2010 10:30:52 PM by L.C.

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oubobcatjohn
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RE: Time to replace Tim Albin.

Posted: 9/14/2010 2:25:24 AM

We have been more of a big play quick strike offense in recent years. QB needs to have time and then make correct decisions. Hard to blame the OC when the players don't execute the play called. The team needs to execute in practice and carry it over on game day. Hard to tell the problem from two games. A good QB like Scott executed big in the clutch for us. Turnovers aren't the fault of the OC. Now running a foolish reverse that loses big yards when we could have selected a better play has been a problem over the past 5 years. Sometimes we get too cute and screw things up in the redzone when a simple get into the I and blow the other team off the ball is the best approach. Got have some goaline and short yardage plays that you can convert at a high % without risking turnover.

Deciduous Forest Cat
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RE: Time to replace Tim Albin.

Posted: 9/14/2010 12:30:56 PM

oubobcatjohn wrote:

i disagree. I'm not basing this on one game. I'm basing this on a pattern of inconsistency over the past 5+ seasons. the inability to gain tough yards when needed, the inability to move the chains against the top defenses, and our propensity for games like Saturday... a supremely el crappo offensive performance for 60 solid minutes. I'm not advocating wholesale changes, because we are definitely a better program than we were then. Saturday excepted, we have been solid to spectacular with special teams and at least had above average defenses.

Let me also mention, I completely realize that Saturday was one end of the spectrum. Our O won't be that bad all season. And one thing that gives me some hope is that each of our MAC East title seasons, we had performances like that one AT HOME (kent last year, BG in 2006). I fully realize that one game does not make or break the season. I can guarantee that we will play at our near our best this weekend and the game will be closer than expected. prob not as close as 2008, but closer than the pundits predict.

If our offense is just average last Saturday, we have a 14-20 point victory, easily. If we are to win the East (and we do still control our own destiny), we know it's likely on the backs of our D and special teams.

L.C.
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RE: Time to replace Tim Albin.

Posted: 9/14/2010 1:00:24 PM

oubobcatjohn wrote:

We have been more of a big play quick strike offense in recent years. QB needs to have time and then make correct decisions. .../

That's the point, I think. They didn't have the time, and they weren't able to make big plays, with one exception. The job of the offensive coordinator is to figure of the strengths of the players he has, and get the most out of them. I don't think anyone here cares what plays or formation Ohio runs, so long as they move the ball. The only time they looked like they were moving the ball to me was running the option.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Cats-22
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RE: Time to replace Tim Albin.

Posted: 9/14/2010 1:30:15 PM

I think the coaches liked how Arizona moved the ball through the air versus Toledo, and knew Ohio had playmakers at WR. Given Boo's recovering arm and the young OL, the plan was to get quick throws and hope for yards after catch. It didn't work (at all), but that game plan wasn't crazy.

The adjustments or lack thereof did seem problematic. I think when Toledo starting dropping eight, the coaches should have recognized that the plan wasn't going to work. Toledo was still getting a pass rush with three and Boo was missing the coverages (IIRC the INTs were not mis-thrown but instead cases of Boo not seeing the coverage, though with the Webcast I might be mistaken). As LC said, the option showed promise, at least given the D Toledo was bringing. Going option would have stopped the INTs, and that would have been enough for Ohio to win (though Boo did put a pitch on the ground, as I recall).

The offense also looked sloppy in general. Plays weren't crisp and there were killer false starts. Makes me think simplicity in the scheme would help. More repetitions of the same plays. I have faith that these coaches can turn it around, but they do need to turn it around.

DWIGHT BOBCAT
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RE: Time to replace Tim Albin.

Posted: 9/14/2010 7:31:14 PM

We can blame Albin or the other offensive staff members all we want, but at the end of the day, it still comes back to Frank. He's the head guy, it's his call. This is his sixth year at Ohio now. If something isn't working, it's his job to fix it.

I'll be blunt: offensive production has ALWAYS been Frank's Achilles heel when he's been a major college coach, whether he was his own offensive coordinator or someone else was. I'm not being provocative, just being honest.

Even if you try to be more than fair to him and throw out his first year at Ohio (when the program was still influenced greatly by Knorr, right?), if you average Ohio's offensive stats from '06 through '09, you're looking at an offense that still averaged only 88th in total offense and 71st in scoring. Right now, two games into the season - after playing Wofford and Toledo, not exactly defensive powerhouses - Ohio is ranked 116th in total offense and 85th in scoring.

In Frank's two best years at Ohio so far, 2006 and 2009, his offense ranked 106th(!) in total offense in both years and 85th and 78th in scoring, respectively. It's clear that his formula for winning division titles in those years was playing solid defense & special teams, and not turning the ball over - these things, much more than brilliant offensive coordination and playcalling, it's clear, were keys to Ohio's success in those years. For example, Ohio ranked 45th in total defense and 28th in scoring defense in 2009. In 2006, Ohio was 29th in total defense and 23rd in scoring defense. Coincidence that we haven't seen the opposite (relatively strong offense, weak defense)? Under Frank, I'd have to say no.

The pattern extends back to his Nebraska years. NU's offense dropped off the map in 2002 and 2003 (with the graduation of Eric Crouch, among others). Even in 2003, NU's offense was ranked just 83rd in total offense and 74th in scoring offense; but its defense ranked 11th in total and 2nd in scoring defense. The best thing NU's offense could do that year was run the ball where it could and not turn it over.

One might say this is smart, basic football, but it falls apart if you DO turn it over (of course, everything falls apart if that happens), if your defense can't hold up, or if you're simply playing a good team that forces you to diversify your offensive gameplan. If you continue to call basic, predictable - dare I say outright bad - plays that aren't working against an in-tune defense, it's not long before your team begins to resemble a man banging his head against a wall. How many times now have I see message board posts in which fans praised a Solich team's defense but criticized its lack of offensive execution/playcalling? Far too many to remember, frankly. It started long before Tim Albin was his offensive coordinator, and it continues year after year after year.

I'm not saying big offensive improvement or a good offense aren't possible this year or the next under Solich. But I am saying I won't be holding my breath for it.

Bcat2
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RE: Time to replace Tim Albin.

Posted: 9/15/2010 6:48:00 AM

DWIGHT BOBCAT wrote:

We can blame Albin or the other offensive staff members all we want, but at the end of the day, it still comes back to Frank. He's the head guy, it's his call. This is his sixth year at Ohio now. If something isn't working, it's his job to fix it.

I'll be blunt: offensive production has ALWAYS been Frank's Achilles heel when he's been a major college coach, whether he was his own offensive coordinator or someone else was. I'm not being provocative, just being honest.

Even if you try to be more than fair to him and throw out his first year at Ohio (when the program was still influenced greatly by Knorr, right?), if you average Ohio's offensive stats from '06 through '09, you're looking at an offense that still averaged only 88th in total offense and 71st in scoring. Right now, two games into the season - after playing Wofford and Toledo, not exactly defensive powerhouses - Ohio is ranked 116th in total offense and 85th in scoring.

In Frank's two best years at Ohio so far, 2006 and 2009, his offense ranked 106th(!) in total offense in both years and 85th and 78th in scoring, respectively. It's clear that his formula for winning division titles in those years was playing solid defense & special teams, and not turning the ball over - these things, much more than brilliant offensive coordination and playcalling, it's clear, were keys to Ohio's success in those years. For example, Ohio ranked 45th in total defense and 28th in scoring defense in 2009. In 2006, Ohio was 29th in total defense and 23rd in scoring defense. Coincidence that we haven't seen the opposite (relatively strong offense, weak defense)? Under Frank, I'd have to say no.

The pattern extends back to his Nebraska years. NU's offense dropped off the map in 2002 and 2003 (with the graduation of Eric Crouch, among others). Even in 2003, NU's offense was ranked just 83rd in total offense and 74th in scoring offense; but its defense ranked 11th in total and 2nd in scoring defense. The best thing NU's offense could do that year was run the ball where it could and not turn it over.

One might say this is smart, basic football, but it falls apart if you DO turn it over (of course, everything falls apart if that happens), if your defense can't hold up, or if you're simply playing a good team that forces you to diversify your offensive gameplan. If you continue to call basic, predictable - dare I say outright bad - plays that aren't working against an in-tune defense, it's not long before your team begins to resemble a man banging his head against a wall. How many times now have I see message board posts in which fans praised a Solich team's defense but criticized its lack of offensive execution/playcalling? Far too many to remember, frankly. It started long before Tim Albin was his offensive coordinator, and it continues year after year after year.

I'm not saying big offensive improvement or a good offense aren't possible this year or the next under Solich. But I am saying I won't be holding my breath for it.

Lots to think about. Coach Solich has Ohio improving, playing good D and special teams. Both of those areas have most key elements back from last year. The offense has good players back, but, is replacing the starting qb, wr (to the NFL), c and a tackle. Realistically, Ohio is not to the point where it reloads from losing those players. I believe help is on the way, but, the new starters will not step in playing the way those seniors were playing when they left. This year the DL is senior heavy while the OL is still sorting things out. Next year hopefully the OL will be more solid while a younger DL figures out how to replace all of this year's seniors. Such is college football. Remember, Coach Solich still is bringing in better and better players, however, let us not forget how low Ohio was, how much work needed done, that this is still Ohio not Texas with four star recruits on the shelf. Ohio has good coaches that do coach, we have seen that. These things take time. So long as the basic trend is up and I believe it is I am a proud Ohio fan.

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

L.C.
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RE: Time to replace Tim Albin.

Posted: 9/15/2010 2:55:03 PM

DWIGHT BOBCAT wrote:

Agreed. This is Solich's job to fix, and he needs to make whatever changes are necessary, if any.

DWIGHT BOBCAT wrote:

In Frank's two best years at Ohio so far, 2006 and 2009, his offense ranked 106th(!) in total offense in both years and 85th and 78th in scoring, respectively. It's clear that his formula for winning division titles in those years was playing solid defense & special teams, and not turning the ball over - these things, much more than brilliant offensive coordination and playcalling, it's clear, were keys to Ohio's success in those years.

Again, I agree. Solich has built his winning reputation on defense, special teams, and not turning the ball over. There is nothing wrong with that. Heck, even with the dismal offensive performance against Toledo, they would have won without the turnovers and poor special teams. If he can improve the offensive production at Ohio, he should be able to dominate the conference.

DWIGHT BOBCAT wrote:

I'm not saying big offensive improvement or a good offense aren't possible this year or the next under Solich. But I am saying I won't be holding my breath for it.

It isn't as if Solich has simply accepted the status quo. He has changed his offensive philosophy from run to pass, from I to spread, trying to find an effective offensive solution. I think Ohio has the tools for an effective offense. I think he will continue to make changes until the offense does produce.

Last Edited: 9/15/2010 2:58:50 PM by L.C.

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Football Jim
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RE: Time to replace Tim Albin.

Posted: 9/16/2010 2:59:43 AM

I agree that the offense needs more than a little work. I don't think we have the right players to run the option successfully for an entire season. Not big and rangy enough to keep injuries down and not deep enough to cover all positions when an injury occurs.

I don't have the solution though as we are not strong enough to play smash mouth power football. That in a nutshell pretty much describes the entire MAC Conference.

Hanging in there!

GO BOBCATS!

John C. Wanamaker
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RE: Time to replace Tim Albin.

Posted: 9/16/2010 7:27:19 AM

Football Jim wrote:

Not big enough? You do realize that most all teams that run the option run the option because they are smallish and less talented than their opponents, so not real sure where you are going with that concept.

I will give you the not deep enough in the backfield as we are short a RB, and we lack a fullback, and for any real option you need the big guy.

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Cats-22
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RE: Time to replace Tim Albin.

Posted: 9/16/2010 9:41:08 AM

Remember that Solich had great offenses at Nebraska except for the 2002 and 2003 seasons that Dwight mentions. So it's not like Solich-led teams can't play offense.

Also, for those who saw the Toledo game, do you agree with me that lack of offensive "imagination" was not the problem? There were plenty of "creative" looking plays to me -- too creative. They were sloppy.

L.C.
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RE: Time to replace Tim Albin.

Posted: 9/16/2010 1:42:36 PM

catatonic wrote:

I agree - the plays looked too creative. I thought they needed to simply stuff, and run plays that hit faster.

That is very interesting, regarding the offense becoming less effective at Nebraska in 2002-3. 2002 was the year Albin became a full time Coach at Nebraska and took on the role of "Passing Game Coordinator".

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John C. Wanamaker
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RE: Time to replace Tim Albin.

Posted: 9/16/2010 1:57:14 PM

I love it, one camp says not creative enough and another says too creative and lacks execution. I agree with the latter.

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Deciduous Forest Cat
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RE: Time to replace Tim Albin.

Posted: 9/16/2010 2:34:59 PM

my concern is with the lack of adjustments... but again, I'm not afraid to admit I don't have much of a keen eye for x's and o's, but when our players and coaches are saying things about Toledo dropping 8 men into coverage... well... that strikes me as a rather extreme measure taken by the defense. Wouldn't that give us an opportunity to exploit... something... when we recognize that? At some point how did we not gash them a few times on the ground and force them to adjust back?

John C. Wanamaker
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RE: Time to replace Tim Albin.

Posted: 9/16/2010 4:52:23 PM

Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:

simple answer to that question is our guys just didn't get it done in the running game.

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Monroe Slavin
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RE: Time to replace Tim Albin.

Posted: 9/16/2010 9:54:09 PM

No chances the coaches could've been prepared and made some adjustments? See L.C.'s remarks about quicker hitters. I'd think that those would work against only a 3 man front--get us into their secondary.

Something. Or just keep doing the same stuff that wasn't working.

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DWIGHT BOBCAT
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RE: Time to replace Tim Albin.

Posted: 9/17/2010 1:03:57 PM

L.C. wrote:

We'll see. He still hasn't had an offense ranked better than 58th at Ohio, and most of them have been far worse than that. I think offensive production has been - and continues to be - his biggest basic obstacle, and until he can overcome that, he'll never win a MAC title. Of course, you've been right and I've been wrong before; I didn't think he would win one division title let alone two, certainly not in his first five seasons. Maybe he'll prove me wrong again. :)

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