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Topic: An Outsiders Point of View

Topic: An Outsiders Point of View

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goutes27
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Member Since: 9/30/2010
Location: Syracuse, UT
Post Count: 21

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An Outsiders Point of View

Posted: 9/30/2010 2:09:37 PM

Hey Bobcat fans. FIrst of all, this post is loooooong. I apologize. I also realize this post is random, but bear with me. As you can see from my profile, I'm not from Ohio nor am I a full-time Bobcat follower. I'm a Ute through and through and have been since I was born. I am a 16-year season ticket holder. I got my first tickets as a kid in 1995 (11 years old) and am now 26 with a child of my own. The Utes are my life. However, somehow someway a little bit of green has seeped into my bloodstream because I have a love for the Bobcats as well. I make it a priority to watch them whenever they are televised nationally(Utah regional broadcasts sadly don't pick up the Bobcats often). I plan to travel to Peden Stadium to catch a game one day in the near future.

Anyway, listen to my tale. I think it relates to the Bobcats more than you realize because I see the Utes in this program. A meteoric rize is possible, and hopefully in the not-too-distant future for the Cats.

I'm not sure many of you know much about the Utes, and I wouldn't expect you to. But before about 2003 when we hit the coaching jackpot (at the expense of Bowling Green, thank you very much) with the hiring of Urban Meyer, Utah was much like the Bobcats. There were often winning seasons, though 10-wins seemed to always be just out of our grasp. And there were often very poor finishes. The Utes for the longest time were the perennial underacheivers. The years Utah was picked to win the WAC/MWC, we would fall flat on our faces. The years we were picked to do nothing, we would rise up and shock everybody. Never could we sustain success for consecutive years.  Rarely would we live up to expectations. As a fan, the rollercoaster highs and lows from success to failure were the most frustrating things in the world.

Then Urban Meyer came in and changed everything.

In 2001 the Utes finished the season 8-4. They played in the Las Vegas Bowl on Christmas day and beat Pete Carroll, Carson Palmer, Troy Polamalu and the rest of the Trojans 10-6 in a defensive battle. The expectations coming in to the next season were sky high. Most publications had the Utes as the MWC favorite. A tough but favorable schedule included games against Indiana at home, @ Michigan, and conference rivals BYU, Colorado State, and Air Force at home. This was supposed to be a banner year for the program. After a 2-0 start including a whopping 40-13 win over Indiana, the season was set up to be something special. Once again, however, the Utes did as they always did. They choked. The promising 2-0 start was immediately followed by six straight losses. After that, fan support was at an all time low. The stadium was nearly empty each week. The players were underacheiving, and the administration was fed up. Though the Utes won their final three games, including a win over hated rival byU, a change was in order. Coach Ron McBride was fired just days after the final game. The athletic director was on the search for the next coach, and the fans were as disinterested as they have ever been.

When the AD announced the hiring of Urban Meyer, fans were upset.  Not only did the school fire a coach that was beloved among Ute fans, but they replaced him with a coach from Bowling Green? That was the best our administration could do? Same old Utes. Little did we know, however, the future of our program changed that day.

2003, following the disappoint 5-6 finish in 2002, was another year of low expectations. The Utes played their second game of the year on the road at Texas A&M. In a hard fought game, the Utes trailed by 8 late but scored a touchdown with :08 left on the clock. The ensuing 2pt conversion was oh so close, but no good. Our QB rolled out and made a run for the pylon. As he dove, he was hit hard out of bounds at the 1 and was injured. We lost the game 28-26 and our QB was lost for the year. Enter no-namer Alex Smith, a sophomore with no experience.

In previous years, the Utes would have folded at that point. But Urban Meyer brought with him something special. He tought the team how to WIN. Alex Smith and the Utes finished the year 8-1 after that game including wins over Cal and Oregon, 9-2 on the regular season. A 17-0 shutout in against Southern Miss in the Liberty Bowl gave the team their first 10-win season in a very long time.

The next season was the best of them all. The 2004 Utes, a team loaded with players from the 2002 team that finished 5-6, went undefeated. Thanks to our 10-2 finish the year before, we began the season ranked in the top 25. In 2004, the ONLY way a non-BCS team could get in to a BCS game was for a team to finish in the top 6 of the BCS rankings. After the final game of the season (a 52-21 spanking of byU), the Utes were ranked 6th. Hello BCS Busters, hello Fiesta Bowl, hello Pittsburgh. After that year, thanks to the controversy sparked by the Utes, the BCS changed its rules to allow any non-BCS team ranked in the top 12 to automatically qualify for the BCS. You're welcome Boise State.

Utah finished that season 12-0 and Fiesta Bowl champs. Urban Meyer was plucked away to bigger and better things in Florida.  But Utah has continued to win. Do I need to remind you of the 2008 Sugar Bowl? I'm sure Alabama hasn't forgotten. After witnessing the change that one man brought to our entire program, I will NEVER underestimate the impact coaches have on winning. Recruiting classes come and recruiting classes go, but coaches are what make programs.  The Utes have never had a top-25 recruiting class. Alex Smith, #1 pick in the NFL draft, was a 2 star prospect (along with many other Utes in the NFL).

Could you have convinced me in 2002 that the Utes had enough talent to play in and WIN a BCS game? Not a chance. But it happened. Ohio has the talent, I promise you.  But does it have the leadership? Does it have the coaches? You can answer that for yourself.

The Bobcat program is one that I pray will make this same type of jump. Utah went from being a nobody, to suddenly being somebody. Pac 12 here we come!  And it all happened in an instant.  This can happen in Athens. I hope this happens in Athens.

Anyway, here's to OU finishing the season strong. 8-straight wins starts this week against EMU. Go Bobcats, and Go Utes! Thanks for letting me tell my tale on your board. I have been lurking for a long time and finally felt like I needed to post. Cheer for the Utes as the season progresses. Hopefully I get to meet some of you when I travel to Peden one day.

Last Edited: 9/30/2010 2:10:33 PM by goutes27

Closet Bobcat Fan Go UTES!!

Doc Bobcat
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RE: An Outsiders Point of View

Posted: 9/30/2010 2:17:48 PM

Great post utes 27.

You just made my day.

Now let's sit and wait for the post that we know will come and then I'll need anger management classes.

Actually I don't need anger management....I just need people to quit pi$$ing me off.

UpSan Bobcat
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Location: Upper Sandusky, OH
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RE: An Outsiders Point of View

Posted: 9/30/2010 2:32:04 PM

Thanks for the encouraging words. People are pretty pessimistic on this board. I get tired of people saying we should just dropped to FCS or that we'll have no choice soon anyway. The start to this season hasn't been great, but we're still two plays away from being 3-1 and everyone being excited about the year to come. I also think the teams we've played are better than people realize. We have a lot of unmet potential and still could have a great year. That's all what we need to expect. We've come a long ways as a program, and of course, we've got even farther to go. Let's just keep the faith and keep supporting the Bobcats.

OhioCatFan
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Location: Athens, OH
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RE: An Outsiders Point of View

Posted: 9/30/2010 4:09:52 PM

Thanks so much, 27. You made my day, too. I've been dreaming of the kind of turnaround you envision since I was in high school in early 1960s. There are times when I almost give up hope, but your recitation of what happened in Utah and your assurance that it could happen in Athens renews my hope. As Doc says there will be those on this board who will say this is all pie in the sky and that we can't possible do something like that in 'lil olde Athens in the foothills of the Appalachian mountains. They'll talk about the local economy, the state budget crisis, the attitude of the student body, etc. They will make some valid points, but they will all overlook what could happen if all the pieces would fall in place. Me, I prefer to be an optimist.

Last Edited: 9/30/2010 4:25:58 PM by OhioCatFan

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: An Outsiders Point of View

Posted: 9/30/2010 5:16:26 PM

OR. . .

They can be like Ball State, where they reach 12-0 and peak at #12 in the nation before losing the MAC championship game and immediately reverting back to mediocrity.

Cats-22
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RE: An Outsiders Point of View

Posted: 9/30/2010 9:05:06 PM

I'm baffled as to how you started following the Bobcats, goutes, but I enjoyed your post. I especially like the part about the eight straight wins.

However, I think you're vastly underestimating the extent to which talent not recruited by Urban Meyer played a role in Utah's turnaround. That 2004 team had five players selected in the NFL draft (the same number as USC!), including a QB named Alex Smith who went #1 overall. So it's true that Meyer is a great coach, among the 2-3 best in CFB -- but he also stepped into a loaded cupboard at Utah (and later at Florida as it happened).

Last Edited: 9/30/2010 9:05:29 PM by Cats-22

UpSan Bobcat
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RE: An Outsiders Point of View

Posted: 9/30/2010 9:41:31 PM

catatonic wrote:

He also mentioned that Alex Smith was a two-star recruit just like all of the guys we get. It was a matter of finding a great overlooked player. We've had an increasing number of those as indicated by annually having a player drafted, which is a good sign.

DelBobcat
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RE: An Outsiders Point of View

Posted: 9/30/2010 9:49:35 PM

Best. Post. Ever. (Since the last best post ever).

Seriously though, thanks for sharing and you can best believe I will be following and rooting for the Utes from here on out. I'm also curious how you became a Bobcat fan?

BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012

Pataskala
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RE: An Outsiders Point of View

Posted: 9/30/2010 10:29:56 PM

Thanks for the encouragement. I sometimes think that we forget how bad it was at OU and expect too quick a turnaround. This program didn't have a winning season in 15 years when Jim Grobe hit town in the mid '90s. It takes a while to overcome such a tradition of underachievement. But thanks to him and Frank Solich we've now had four winning seasons and two .500 seasons since then. It is heading in the right direction. I think we're all a bit over-anxious for back-to-back winning seasons, which would be a sure sign that the program is on its way. And this year we thought it could really happen, given the experience at key positions and the weakness of the schedule. September was a cold slap of stark reality, although there was vast improvement during the Marshall game. If anybody can get eight more wins out of this team this year, Frank Solich can. Go Bobcats! Go Utes!

We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

goutes27
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Location: Syracuse, UT
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RE: An Outsiders Point of View

Posted: 10/1/2010 12:31:15 AM

catatonic wrote:

However, I think you're vastly underestimating the extent to which talent not recruited by Urban Meyer played a role in Utah's turnaround. That 2004 team had five players selected in the NFL draft (the same number as USC!), including a QB named Alex Smith who went #1 overall.

Great post. You are right, the talent that Urban used was not his. They were players recruited by former coach McBride. As posted above, the Utes were very inconsistent from year to year under McBride. In '99, they went 9-3 and won the Vegas bowl. In 2000, as the preseason favorite, they went 4-7. In '01 as underdogs they went 8-4 and won the Vegas Bowl again. '02 as favorites they fell flat at 5-6. With this kind of inconsistency its obvious that the Utes weren't reeling in the 4 and 5 star recruits.

You're correct that 5 players were drafted after the Fiesta Bowl. Those players were:

Alex Smith(49ers) - 2 star
Sione Pouha(Jets) - 2 star
Chris Kemoeatu(Steelers) - 2 star
Jonathan Fanene(Bengals) - 2 star
Paris Warren(Buccaneers) - 2 star

In '06 2 players from those '03 and '04 teams were drafted. They were:

Spencer Toone - 2 star
Quinton Ganther - 2 star

And in '07 1 player was drafted who was not recruited by Meyer but played on his teams. He was:

Eric Weddle - 2 star

This should be very encouraging to you guys. In my original post I said something like you could not have convinced me after the '02 season that just two years later we would be playing in and winning a BCS bowl game. But it happened. We had 1 and 2 star players that under Meyer and his staff played like 4 and 5 star guys.

This is exactly how I see the Cats. The team may not be filled with top name recruits, but I promise you there is talent on this team. These guys can win. They just need the right motivation/motivator. Hopefully they find it.

Last Edited: 10/1/2010 12:35:09 AM by goutes27

Closet Bobcat Fan Go UTES!!

goutes27
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Location: Syracuse, UT
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RE: An Outsiders Point of View

Posted: 10/1/2010 12:34:11 AM

catatonic wrote:

So it's true that Meyer is a great coach, among the 2-3 best in CFB -- but he also stepped into a loaded cupboard at Utah (and later at Florida as it happened).

This, however, is incorrect. He definitely did NOT have a loaded cupboard. He really didn't have many players rated higher than a 2 star when took over. He and his staff made his players what they are today.

Thanks for your comments, I appreciate your interest.

Closet Bobcat Fan Go UTES!!

goutes27
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Location: Syracuse, UT
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RE: An Outsiders Point of View

Posted: 10/1/2010 12:53:17 AM

As for my Bobcat 'conversion story', I'll try and explain.

I have a great memory of turning on the tv a bunch of years ago and catching my first Ohio football game. It was either '05 or '06 because I watched not because of the Cats, but because of who they were playing.

They happened to be playing the Pitt Panthers, who the Utes had just recently beat in the Fiesta Bowl. The ONLY reason I didn't turn the channel was because I wanted to see how the Panthers would do. When I watch games, I typically root for the underdog or for the smaller school because I like to see an upset. So naturally I found myself cheering for OU. What a great game that was. I still remember watching till the end of the game thinking 'man what a great team and what an awesome game!'. Lame, yes. But it stuck with me.

Ever since that game, Ohio has always caught my attention. I watched them lose to the Terd(I understand now this is a rivalry, hence the 'terd') last year in the Little Caesars Bowl, and I remember watching them play I think it was Southern Miss in a bowl game too a few years ago. I don't think they won, but I watched both games.

Whenever the Bobcats land on ESPN(ESPN2 or ESPNU) in a MAC matchup I plan around it. If I can't sit and watch, I DVR the game and watch it later.

I guess I can't say EXACTLY what made me a Bobcat fan. It definitely started with that great game against Pitt. But whatever else added to it, I'm glad I have stuck with the team. I just hope to see them take that next step sometime soon.

Closet Bobcat Fan Go UTES!!

John C. Wanamaker
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RE: An Outsiders Point of View

Posted: 10/1/2010 7:28:49 AM

goutes27 wrote:

catatonic wrote:

So it's true that Meyer is a great coach, among the 2-3 best in CFB -- but he also stepped into a loaded cupboard at Utah (and later at Florida as it happened).

I have to disagree, these ratings are so largely biases towards name schools. Many kids have the 2-3 star moniker simply based on who is recuriting, I personally witnessed a young man go from a 2 star to 4 star over night based on one offer. At that time Utah was a competitive program without a National presence, those same kids today would all be higher simply based on the fact that Utah offered them.

"Half the money I spend on advertising is wasted; the trouble is I don't know which half."

Cats-22
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RE: An Outsiders Point of View

Posted: 10/1/2010 8:41:13 AM

goutes27 wrote:

This is exactly how I see the Cats. The team may not be filled with top name recruits, but I promise you there is talent on this team. These guys can win. They just need the right motivation/motivator. Hopefully they find it.

goutes, forgive me if I'm misinterpreting you, but it sounds like you're suggesting Ohio fire its head coach and try to find its own Urban Meyer? This is a little like a Powerball winner telling everyone to buy lottery tickets. It's hard to find Urban Meyer. Also, while Frank hasn't led to a turnaround quite in Meyer's league, he has brought massive improvements to the Ohio program. Ohio hadn't played in a bowl game in almost 40 years before Frank got here, and now they've played in two in the past four seasons.

Ohio69
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RE: An Outsiders Point of View

Posted: 10/1/2010 9:00:43 AM

goutes27 wrote:

Well, here's your quid pro quo. I root for Utah. Mainly because (pre- PAC 10 invite) their exclusion from the BCS was inexplicable. Its a big time program. Fans. Stadium. Talent. Budget. No reason to keep them out. Now I'll root for them in the PAC 10 excepting against Stanford, with whom I have familial ties.

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

Bobcat110
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RE: An Outsiders Point of View

Posted: 10/1/2010 10:44:41 AM

Great post. It's those games like Pitt that certainly make being an Ohio fun. We did have a contingent of Nebraska fans follow us due to their backing of Solich, but it's not a common thing to have fans of Ohio who don't have a direct connection to Ohio.  Heck, it's a task to get current students to be fans. Hope you do get to visit Athens someday. You'll love the campus.

As for Ohio/MAC football, it is what it is.  You go into each season hoping to win the conference, maybe pull an upset off over a BCS team along the way and get to a bowl game that most BCS teams snub their nose at. It'd be great to see any MAC team break into a BCS game and I don't think it's impossible.

However, sustained success is harder to maintain.  I think the only program that had any form of sustained success was Marshall and they took it elsewhere. The MAC is a stepping stone for great coaches.   Pretty much every Division I program is a step up in pay and national competition (i.e. Urban Meyer to Utah from BG or Brian Kelly to Cincinnati from CMU). Uncovering overlooked recruits is tougher here than out west because the MAC is saturated in Ohio with six schools that are selling themselves against each other for the Big Ten/Big East left overs. The resources just aren't there. Your MAC coach is paid a range of $190,000 to $505,000.  Utah can at least compete on salaries. The Utah coach is getting $1.2 Million + up to another $500K in bonuses, which is slightly above the starting range for most BCS coaches.

Even if a MAC program has success, it won't translate to increased revenues without other MAC schools being successful too, which is next to impossible due to saturation. So, IMO, the Boise State role model wouldn't work here. Boise State is pretty much THE entertainment feature in Idaho. No pro sports, no other major NCAA competition. They can get a revenue bump with their successes despite having trouble scheduling top level competition. Here, if a MAC school is a top 25 team, they are simply a big fish in a small pond that few care about when there's Big Ten fish in the pond next door, or other entertainment in pro sports. One top 25 MAC team playing 13 other mediocre MAC teams week in/week out won't create TV revenue or a huge gate revenue.

I know it almost sounds discouraging when reading the above paragraphs, but I think when you see the discrepancies between the haves and have nots, it makes those Ohio wins like Pitt all the more enjoyable.

Last Edited: 10/1/2010 10:47:56 AM by Bobcat110

OhioStunter
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RE: An Outsiders Point of View

Posted: 10/1/2010 12:07:42 PM

goutes27 wrote:

If you ever get a chance to visit Athens, you'll fall even more in love with Ohio University. Thanks for sharing a cool story.

OhioCatFan
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RE: An Outsiders Point of View

Posted: 10/1/2010 1:04:53 PM

Ohio Stunter, your screen name always reminds me of the most clever alumni news letter name ever. Back when Ohio State actually had a real journalism school, its alumni newsletter was called "Ohio Stet." Now you have to be a journalist -- or have a good friend who is -- to understand the satire in that name. I suspect that your name signifies something like an OU student who does skateboard or motorcycle stunts, but nonetheless, evey time I see your screen name I think of that OSU J-school alumni newsletter. Probably totally useless information, but I felt the urge to share anyway.

Last Edited: 10/1/2010 1:06:08 PM by OhioCatFan

The Situation
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RE: An Outsiders Point of View

Posted: 10/1/2010 1:26:34 PM

Thanks for the support goutes27. I too see a lot of potential for this team under Solich. The past three years we've had someone drafted which doesn't sound like much but it does mean we're headed in the right direction. We've got a good shot of extending that streak to four this year and picking up a 3rd MAC East Title under Frank. There have three games in the last three weeks that have left a sour taste in some people's mouth but there's still a lot to be excited about. It's a good time to be a Bobcat.

P.S. I will officially be pulling for the Utes until further notice

Bobcat Love
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RE: An Outsiders Point of View

Posted: 10/1/2010 8:57:19 PM

1. He didn't turn on the freakin TV and fall in love with the Bobcats while they were playing Eastern Illinois. (I TOLD YOU SO)

2. Utah and Ohio are worlds apart,and always will be. You have the 50th largest metro population and the 36th largest TV market in the country. We have the roundabout and a tendency to overspend our budget by about 15-20% every year.

3. It's cool that you follow us, but the FBS system is setup for teams like Ohio to be down forever. I have no faith that we will ever make a mark on the national scene, as our administration couldn't be less assertive (or capable) to get us there, nor is the college football landscape level enough for it to happen.

OrlandoCat
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RE: An Outsiders Point of View

Posted: 10/1/2010 9:37:49 PM

OhioCatFan wrote:

Ohio Stunter is a former cheerleader.

Stunting is anytime a male cheerleader tosses the girl in the air.

No skateboards needed.

Doc Bobcat
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RE: An Outsiders Point of View

Posted: 10/1/2010 10:37:20 PM

OrlandoCat wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

Ohio Stunter is a former cheerleader.

Stunting is anytime a male cheerleader tosses the girl in the air.

No skateboards needed.

Grandpa said that was someone who smoked when he was younger.

OhioStunter
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RE: An Outsiders Point of View

Posted: 10/2/2010 9:48:30 AM

Doc Bobcat wrote:

OrlandoCat wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

Ohio Stunter is a former cheerleader.

Stunting is anytime a male cheerleader tosses the girl in the air.

No skateboards needed.

Grandpa said that was someone who smoked when he was younger.

All good guesses, but Orlando Cat is correct. Doc, I like the factoid about "Ohio Stet"!

# # #

Urban Bobcat
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RE: An Outsiders Point of View

Posted: 10/2/2010 4:09:33 PM

I think I am a Utah fan now.
I feel that all of our fans, players, coaches should read this post.

URBAN BOBCAT

OhioCatFan
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Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 14,781

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RE: An Outsiders Point of View

Posted: 10/2/2010 5:26:51 PM

OhioStunter wrote:

Doc Bobcat wrote:

OrlandoCat wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

Ohio Stunter is a former cheerleader.

Stunting is anytime a male cheerleader tosses the girl in the air.

No skateboards needed.

Grandpa said that was someone who smoked when he was younger.

All good guesses, but Orlando Cat is correct. Doc, I like the factoid about "Ohio Stet"!

# # #

Believe that was my "factoid" Stunter.

Thanks for clarifying the meaning of Stunter in your screen name.

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