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Topic: Department of Justice to investigate BCS

Topic: Department of Justice to investigate BCS

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Ohio69
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
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Department of Justice to investigate BCS

Posted: 11/4/2010 3:08:43 PM

Maybe...

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5763731

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

TWT
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RE: Department of Justice to investigate BCS

Posted: 11/4/2010 4:37:14 PM

I'd be surprised if the end result of all these investigations led to a playoff. The NCAA would have to vote to change the bowl subdivision to a playoff and who is casting the majority of the votes, BCS conferences. What makes a lot more sense is a new BCS system that includes all existing conferences with 10 participating games. That way the argument goes away that the conferences are not receiving equal money. A playoff would level recruiting too much and the biggest football powers do not want that. They want the non-BCS schools to participate as junior partners in their system ever aspiring to one day be among the "big boys". You'll never see a group of super 64 schools split from the NCAA, they already dominate it financially and politically. If they left the other 250 or so schools in D1 would unite with enough market presence to build an attractive alternative. The big boys would rather continue the scrap system in any form to prevent losing their grip on the smaller Division 1 universities.

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Zaleski
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RE: Department of Justice to investigate BCS

Posted: 11/4/2010 5:52:47 PM

You speak of the 64 schools that dominate the BCS such that no playoff system could be adopted. It seems to me that this is exactly the type of combination in restraint of trade that the Anti-Trust laws are designed to prevent. I don't think that the Anti-Trust laws should (or can) be used to force the adoption of a playoff system. They may, however, be able to force an expansion of programs eligible to participate.

The more interesting question, to me anyway, is whether such suits may lead to the finding that the NCAA and its member institutions are engaged in a "trade or business". If so, you can kiss the tax-exempt status of the NCAA and its sports programs goodbye.

This would have some major implications for inter-collegiate athletics in general, but in particular for the traditional Div I football powerhouses. If the court cases rule against the NCAA and the BCS both from an Anti-trust and tax perspective, I foresee the rise of "minor league" football such as we see in baseball and the dimunition of college football programs to what we see at the Division II or III levels.

Personally, I do not see this as a bad thing, but I have to think of programs such as Akron who just spent megabucks to build a new stadium. I'm not sure whether it was financed by bonds or not, but if it was the drop in attendance (such as it is) and debt service could wipe out the program. Perhaps the school could lease the stadium to the new Akron minor league football team/

John C. Wanamaker
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RE: Department of Justice to investigate BCS

Posted: 11/5/2010 7:36:35 AM

Even though I enjoy sports, I am soooooo happy that our government is going to spend what will amount to seven figures investigating the BCS. I do believe there are other things out there that we could be investigating and or looking into.

"Half the money I spend on advertising is wasted; the trouble is I don't know which half."

Flomo-genized
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RE: Department of Justice to investigate BCS

Posted: 11/5/2010 8:16:59 AM

John C. Wanamaker wrote:

College football is a $2 billion per year industry. If such a blatant cartel were operating in any other line of business, it would have been broken up years ago. Given the vast numbers of people that are affiliated in one way or another with college football (as players, coaches, fans, etc.), this is hardly a trivial matter. Just because it is sports doesn't mean it isn't important.

John C. Wanamaker
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RE: Department of Justice to investigate BCS

Posted: 11/5/2010 8:41:03 AM

This issue will be a time wasting venture that will eat up $$$$ and see no results, if this even goes to a full investigation. Just my $.02

"Half the money I spend on advertising is wasted; the trouble is I don't know which half."

Flomo-genized
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RE: Department of Justice to investigate BCS

Posted: 11/5/2010 8:49:48 AM

I disagree, for a couple reasons. First, I strongly suspect that the BCS would cave pretty quickly if the Department of Justice actually filed suit. A strong case can be made that the current system does violate antitrust law, and a federal antitrust suit brought by the United States government would be a P.R. and political disaster for a BCS organization that is already hated. Plus there would be a lot of risk involved for the primary BCS officials, from triple damages to possible jail time. That doesn't necessarily mean they would immediately institute a playoff, but I suspect we'd quickly see significant changes for the better to the BCS.

Second, even if no charges are filed that doesn't mean it was a waste of money. The reason we have an antitrust division in the DOJ is to investigate potential antitrust violations. Not every investigation leads to an indictment, just as not every police investigation leads to an arrest. But that doesn't mean there isn't value in going through the exercise to make sure that no laws are being broken. The DOJ wouldn't be doing its job if it didn't investigate a cartel this blatant.

Last Edited: 11/5/2010 8:59:43 AM by Flomo-genized

John C. Wanamaker
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RE: Department of Justice to investigate BCS

Posted: 11/5/2010 9:06:17 AM

Who hates the BCS? a vocal minority, who mainly come from small schools who will not get a seat at the table in a play-off system. Boise, TCU and the boys can complain all they want, neither of them would have won a "Poll Championship" that existed through the 20th Century. A play-off will (because that is what this is really all about) will increase the arms race. And does anyone really believe that a 3rd place SEC team is going to sit at home in a 16 team play-off? (I use that because that is the one most commonly thrown out for discussion).

"Half the money I spend on advertising is wasted; the trouble is I don't know which half."

Flomo-genized
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RE: Department of Justice to investigate BCS

Posted: 11/5/2010 9:14:57 AM

You're out of touch, JCW. A recent Sports Illustrated poll showed that 90% of college football fans in total oppose the BCS. We focus here on its unfair implications for mid-majors, but many of the major conference fans hate it as well, because unless their team is one of the two picked for the title game they lose a chance to play for a national title. Almost every year there is significant controversy regarding the picks for the title game, and anyone left on the outside looking in is going to be displeased. Auburn in 2003, USC in 2004, Oregon and Colorado in 2001, Cincinnati last year.

The system is a joke, and needs to be replaced. It has destroyed interest in lower tier bowl games, and is destructive to the regular season because it renders 90%+ of all games played irrelevant to the national title race (i.e., those played by almost all non-BCS schools, and most games between BCS teams with 1 or more losses). A 16-game playoff would substantially improve college football. 11 automatic bids, 5 at-large bids. If you are 3rd place in the SEC, you'll likely get an at-large, or if not only have your self to blame for losing multiple games throughout the year. By including the Sun Belts and MACs of the world, you maintain the significance of the regular season by giving the top 2 or 3 seeds much easier first round games than they'd get as a 6th seed having to play, say, the 2nd place Big XII team. Just imagine how much more interest there would be in the Iowa-Ohio State game in a couple weeks if it were effectively a potential elimination game for an at-large playoff bid, rather than a game deciding which of those teams will finish in a 3-way tie for the Big 10 lead.

College football is the only team sport in the world that doesn't have a playoff tournament. Last year 3 teams (UC, Boise, and TCU) were eliminated from national title consideration without losing a regular season game. Such a system is indefensible.

Last Edited: 11/5/2010 9:27:28 AM by Flomo-genized

John C. Wanamaker
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RE: Department of Justice to investigate BCS

Posted: 11/5/2010 9:35:18 AM

Never said I like it, but it is the best system we have, and a play-off is going to be stacked very much against these teams that are locked out of the BCS Title game today.

"Half the money I spend on advertising is wasted; the trouble is I don't know which half."

OUVan
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RE: Department of Justice to investigate BCS

Posted: 11/5/2010 10:47:02 AM

John C. Wanamaker wrote:

Never said I like it, but it is the best system we have, and a play-off is going to be stacked very much against these teams that are locked out of the BCS Title game today.

Not nearly as much as the BCS is stacked against them.

mf279801
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RE: Department of Justice to investigate BCS

Posted: 11/5/2010 10:59:02 AM

Yes, a similar combination/group in another industry earning $2billion a year would have been broken up decades ago, BUT we're talking about an orginazation that is that is made up of >80% public (as in state owned) institutes (simply counting up the member schools of the BCS conferences that are public vs. private).
I have a tough time envisioning the justice department bringing anti-trust actions against that many state institutions.

John C. Wanamaker
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RE: Department of Justice to investigate BCS

Posted: 11/5/2010 11:12:16 AM

Does anyone not see this for what it is? This is simply stripped down, a money grab. Another party wants part of the cash, and is using the anti-trust arguement to try and pry their way to the front of the buffet line. A play-off will probably generate more revenue, less expenses and be more exclusive. If the BCS has killed smaller Bowls, a Play-off will eliminate them entirely. No one knows how any 16 spots will be divided, but I assure you the SEC, Big10, Pac10, Big12, Big East will take the spots at the table and the vast lions share of the cash. Much like the NCAA Tournament, MAC and lower tier basketball schools do not reap the windfalls of that tournament and the deck is stacked against them for any real success. Can't wait to see a 12-0 MAC team get the last seed, and get the prize of going to Alabama to take on the #1 team in the Country while a 9-10 win team from the SEC gets a mid-level seed and has a real chance at a few wins.

"Half the money I spend on advertising is wasted; the trouble is I don't know which half."

OUPride
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RE: Department of Justice to investigate BCS

Posted: 11/5/2010 11:30:23 AM

I'm all for a 16 team, playoff, but people need to realize it will do next to nothing in closing the money gap between Ohio and the power conference teams. All that will happen is that the MAC champ will usually be seeded somewhere between 13 and 16 and play an away game at a top 4 team's home stadium. Hell, it'll be exciting. It'll be great. And at the end of the day, it won't do a damn thing to close the gap between Ohio and Ohio State.

A playoff isn't going to lead to equal television money. A playoff isn't going to lead to equal attendance money. Under the rosiest scenarios of 400 million split 120 ways, Ohio will get a check for a little over three million dollars. Hey that's great. It's three million fewer dollars that the university has to subsidize the ad--unless of course we're spending four million more each year trying to get into the damned playoff. In the larger scheme of things, it's a drop in the bucket. Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State and Wisconsin all net that for each home football game. It's a tiny fraction of what every Big Ten school gets from their television deal.

Like I said, I'm for it. It'll bring a little bit of money to the coffers and a lot of excitement in the years that we squeak in. It, however, is no magic bullet for the disparity that exists in big time college football.

Last Edited: 11/5/2010 11:31:54 AM by OUPride

John C. Wanamaker
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RE: Department of Justice to investigate BCS

Posted: 11/5/2010 12:06:18 PM

You are assuming that the revenues will be divided equally to arrive at your 3 million dollar figure. I do agree 100% with what you are saying though.

"Half the money I spend on advertising is wasted; the trouble is I don't know which half."

JSF
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RE: Department of Justice to investigate BCS

Posted: 11/5/2010 4:33:25 PM

mf279801 wrote:

Ah, but the BCS itself is not a public institution, nor are the conferences involved.

69: It might not close the gap, but it will bring us and the MAC more money. Much more money. More importantly, they have a shot at playing for the national title every year. We don't have that now.

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

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John C. Wanamaker
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RE: Department of Justice to investigate BCS

Posted: 11/5/2010 5:09:05 PM

Bobcat Dragon wrote:

mf279801 wrote:

Once again, we are assuming that we will have an automatic seat at this table, and will reap equal rewards. Until a system is in place there are no guarantees of who actually has a seat at the table. If the system is a 16 team system, once again, I will state I have a hard time believing that the 2nd and 3rd teams in the BCS will be left at home for a MAC or a Sun Belt team.

"Half the money I spend on advertising is wasted; the trouble is I don't know which half."

TWT
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RE: Department of Justice to investigate BCS

Posted: 11/5/2010 5:48:45 PM

John C. Wanamaker wrote:

Can't wait to see a 12-0 MAC team get the last seed, and get the prize of going to Alabama to take on the #1 team in the Country while a 9-10 win team from the SEC gets a mid-level seed and has a real chance at a few wins.

Its better then status quo BCS way of doing things because not only do they screw you out of money and matchup they won't give every conference an automatic BCS bowl bid and that hurts recruiting negatively. Boise State has been able to sidestep the BCS system in recruiting with its tradition ( They've won 2 BCS bowls in the past 5 years) and a conference TV deal featuring the program on ESPN 5-6 times every year. A playoff would in theory mean that any non-BCS school could play for a national title and not just a Boise State or TCU with unusual success. A 12-0 MAC team by the way would get like a #10 seed figuring that it will be better than SBC, WAC, CUSA champions and maybe higher rated than the ACC and Big East Champ. A MAC team that is 8-5 might be looking at a #16 seed and get destroyed on the road, long term recruiting will be much better for it.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
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2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
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Jeff McKinney
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RE: Department of Justice to investigate BCS

Posted: 11/5/2010 6:02:47 PM

Have to agree with Flomo and OUPride on this.

If a playoff system is in response to possible litigation, then I think the BCS surely would include all 11 conference champs plus five at large teams.

Such a system would be about the best we could hope for in the MAC and Sun Belt.

Big Willy
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RE: Department of Justice to investigate BCS

Posted: 11/5/2010 7:44:19 PM

Unless I missed it no one has mentioned that it is the state of Utah that has been pushing this, because Utah was undefeated a couple years ago and didn't get to play in the championship game. Now Utah will be in the BCS - kind of funny.

John C. Wanamaker
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RE: Department of Justice to investigate BCS

Posted: 11/5/2010 9:20:11 PM

Like I have said you guys are speculating that we would even have a seat at this table. Want to end some of the problem real quick, enforce the attendance rule, show "real" accounting and ticket reconciliation and pare off all of the dead weight, then you legitimately can exclude the MAC, Sun Belt and other undesirables are cast by the wayside. Everyone is saying play-off, play-off, play-off but in reality we have no idea what system lies in the future, and the grass is not always greener.

As for the BCS being so evil, I challenge one person to show us how the BCS has hurt teams in comparison to the system it replaced. The major conferences had all the good bowls so tied up that Boise State had to create their own and pay themselves to play in it. The Fiesta, Orange, Sugar, Cotton, Rose would never entertain the likes of a Mountain West, and the MAC was relegated to the Rasin and the Silver Bowls.

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OhioCatFan
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RE: Department of Justice to investigate BCS

Posted: 11/5/2010 9:21:16 PM

Jeff McKinney wrote:

What he said!

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

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