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Topic: Another Big 10/11/12 Coming to a MAC Stadium

Topic: Another Big 10/11/12 Coming to a MAC Stadium

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JSF
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Another Big 10/11/12 Coming to a MAC Stadium

Posted: 4/13/2011 12:47:31 AM

Cue the usuals: http://www.mlive.com/broncos/index.ssf/2011/04/western_mi...

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TWT
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RE: Another Big 10/11/12 Coming to a MAC Stadium

Posted: 4/13/2011 5:18:45 AM

The argument that BCS schools are unwilling to play us 1 for 1 based on having a competitive MAC program no longer has any legs with these WMU game contracts. Bill Cubit like Frank is in his 7th year at WMU and he has exactly the same number of wins as Frank with 40. Regional BCS teams have frequented Cubit's schedule in recent years: 2007 (WVU, Indiana, Mizzou), 2008 (Nebraska, Illinios), 2009 (Michigan, Indiana, Michigan St), 2010 (Michigan St, Notre Dame). Cubit is scheduling WMU out exactly as I would prescribe for Solich. The scheduling strategy in place was agreed to after the 2008 season when the Bobcats were coming off of a 4-8 season. Where the program is right today, I'd like to see at a minimum some gradual stepping up in the selection for home games. I would start by axing the 2012 Norfolk State game and replacing it with a BCS game to pair with NMSU at home that year. The return game can be in 2013 with UNT and Marshall scheduled already at home. In 2014 I would replace Eastern Illinois with a BCS home game to go along with Idaho. This would give the program a BCS team in the house 2 out of 4 years from 2012-2015, Beyond that I would like to see the program move to an annual BCS game at home replacing the WAC/SBC series.

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Monroe Slavin
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RE: Another Big 10/11/12 Coming to a MAC Stadium

Posted: 4/13/2011 12:46:04 PM

Economics, please. Their stadium seats 30,200. What do they charge per ticket?

It's not fun but $$ concerns are a reality. They tend to mean that you won't see top flight teams in Athens.

You'll see them when we play roadies.

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Flomo-genized
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RE: Another Big 10/11/12 Coming to a MAC Stadium

Posted: 4/13/2011 6:24:55 PM

Once again, money concerns have nothing to do with it. Any home-and-home series involves no guaranteed payment to the opposition (other than travel costs). So a home-and-home with Illinois will actually cost WMU less than our home-and-home with New Mexico State, due to the much lesser travel costs incurred. The only reason we are not scheduling these type of games is that Solich wants to dumb down the schedule, end of story.

BattleCat
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RE: Another Big 10/11/12 Coming to a MAC Stadium

Posted: 4/13/2011 10:07:25 PM

Flomo-genized wrote:

Did you read the article??????????? The article clearly quotes the Athletic Director as saying that Illinois is GUARANTEED a payout of $400k, if that reflects travel cost as you state, then I must have failed geography in school because I could swear that the state of Illinois and the state of Michigan were both around the Great Lakes.

Bert Presley
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RE: Another Big 10/11/12 Coming to a MAC Stadium

Posted: 4/13/2011 10:33:35 PM

I hate to say it, but what is the travel cost for some of the schools we are facing? New Mexico State's cost has to be reasonably high. We can't afford to bring in a big name school for 400K, but if we can do a 2-1 deal without the payout that might be the way to go.

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anorris
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RE: Another Big 10/11/12 Coming to a MAC Stadium

Posted: 4/13/2011 10:36:04 PM

BattleCat wrote:

Flomo-genized wrote:

I read the article -- Illinois pays WMU $400k in 2012. WMU pays Illinois $400k in 2016. Time value of money says WMU is actually better off here, on that end of things, than if it were a true, no-guarantee home-and-home.

I still would bet it gets bought out before 2016.

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Another Big 10/11/12 Coming to a MAC Stadium

Posted: 4/14/2011 3:09:34 AM

Tell me the numbers that let us pay a visitor $400,000 to come to Athens--and still leave some revenue to cover our game costs.

Flomo-genized
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RE: Another Big 10/11/12 Coming to a MAC Stadium

Posted: 4/14/2011 7:47:22 AM

I skimmed the article, but missed the part about the $400K guarantee. In any event, I maintain that economics aren't a factor here. First, as anorris pointed out, WMU is getting $400K for its game in Champaign. Therefore, the net cost of the two games is zero.

More significantly, though, even if in this case WMU is paying Illinois, the fact remains that for most home-and-home contracts there is no guaranteed payment outside of travel costs. My understanding is that we've turned down home-and-home offers from BCS programs, not due to cost, but simply because Solich does not want to strengthen the schedule. So, at the end of the day, economics are merely a smoke screen. This is about stockpiling easy wins, nothing more, nothing less.

TWT
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RE: Another Big 10/11/12 Coming to a MAC Stadium

Posted: 4/14/2011 7:49:12 AM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

WMU AD Speaks

http://www.mlive.com/broncos/index.ssf/2011/04/wmu_ad_says_latest_deal_that_b.html

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Deciduous Forest Cat
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RE: Another Big 10/11/12 Coming to a MAC Stadium

Posted: 4/14/2011 8:28:41 AM

Flomo-genized wrote:

Sorry - we can't net zero and survive. pay the bills and balance the budget.

Flomo-genized
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RE: Another Big 10/11/12 Coming to a MAC Stadium

Posted: 4/14/2011 8:38:07 AM

Huh? I'm not talking about a net profit of zero from the game, just that the guarantee WMU is receiving from the road trip to Champaign would cover the guarantee its promised to the Illini to play in Kalamazoo. WMU will still make money off of the game from any ticket sales, concessions, etc. they sell. The point is that the guarantee payments are a wash, just like our (presumably non-existant) guarantees with NMSU or North Texas are a wash.

There is no significant financial difference between our playing a home-and-home with NMSU and WMU playing a home-and-home with Illinois. If anything, the Broncos will actually be better off financially, given that the travel costs to Champaign are much lower, and the game will likely attract more fans than ours with NMSU.

Jeff McKinney
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RE: Another Big 10/11/12 Coming to a MAC Stadium

Posted: 4/14/2011 10:49:45 AM

Flomo, isn't it the word that the coaches want to play only one BCS opponent per season? Therefore, since we're playing one on the road each season as a money maker, we're not open to playing one at home in the same season. Is this true?

Flomo-genized
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RE: Another Big 10/11/12 Coming to a MAC Stadium

Posted: 4/14/2011 12:27:15 PM

That's my understanding, Jeff. One can of course debate the merits of that decision either way, but ultimately that is a competitive issue, not a financial one.

OhioCatFan
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RE: Another Big 10/11/12 Coming to a MAC Stadium

Posted: 4/14/2011 8:55:36 PM

As one of the "usual suspects," I have one major thought after reading this thread:

Uncle Wes for Athletic Director!

Also I'd like to point out that if WMU takes the $400,000 they get from Illinois and puts it a CD, they'll have a nice little profit when they pay $400,000 back to Illinois a few years later. But, I agree with Flomo that this is not actually about the economics of the matter. One would think that Frank would remember the electricity of the Pitt game -- his first home game at Ohio -- and want every once in awhile to have the opportunity to re-create that scenario. I see no reason that we can't do a 1-1 with Indiana. And, I have it on good authority that the Hoosier State borders the Buckeye State and that the travel costs will be less for Indiana to get to Athens than say Wyoming, New Mexico State, or dare say I even Gardening School of the Web, or Norfolk State.

Last Edited: 4/14/2011 9:01:29 PM by OhioCatFan

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anorris
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RE: Another Big 10/11/12 Coming to a MAC Stadium

Posted: 4/14/2011 9:22:47 PM

OhioCatFan wrote:

Also I'd like to point out that if WMU takes the $400,000 they get from Illinois and puts it a CD, they'll have a nice little profit when they pay $400,000 back to Illinois a few years later.

Time value of money -- exactly! A dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow.

OhioCatFan
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RE: Another Big 10/11/12 Coming to a MAC Stadium

Posted: 4/14/2011 9:35:26 PM

anorris wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

Also I'd like to point out that if WMU takes the $400,000 they get from Illinois and puts it a CD, they'll have a nice little profit when they pay $400,000 back to Illinois a few years later.

Time value of money -- exactly! A dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow.

Yes, you said it more eloquently than I did. I thought it should be spelled out more explicitly for those who don't think well in abstraction and need concrete examples.

MonroeClassmate
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RE: Another Big 10/11/12 Coming to a MAC Stadium

Posted: 4/15/2011 2:33:35 PM

Look out for the unintended consequences if Ohio was to make the same Big Ten deal.

The academic side at Ohio is hostile to athletics; football in particular. Put money in the bank and they'd scream for the next year's budget to be $400,000 less. Then when it comes time to pay for the return game they'd scream even louder that there is no money to pay such a outrageous amount! Like politicians the memories of these folks is very very short and I'd bet that the new mouthpiece for the cause would not remember the terms of the wash deal.

Furthermore, in the WMU article it clearly pointed out that Minnesota had no interest in a 1 and 1 with WMU. All you on here who think it is just a matter of picking up the phone and saying hey Hoosiers come to Athens are deceiving themselves. There are many Ohio contemporaries seeking these deals with only a few like Illinois willing to ink the deal from the other end--there simply aren't enough to go around. I don't see any advantage for Illinois playing the series. Consider if the Illini had the same deal with the Bobcats and got embarrassed three times! (two wins by the Cats and the after game band show at the Illini field in 2006 was a no doubter) Better to take the W against the same types of opponents that we have scheduled.

Perhaps creative financing is involved. Ohio State doesn't mind shelling out the $750,000 to host MAC games but maybe the Illinois powers cannot justify the shelling out of a big sum in their annual budget and preferred the wash deal?

Last Edited: 4/15/2011 2:38:36 PM by MonroeClassmate

giacomo
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RE: Another Big 10/11/12 Coming to a MAC Stadium

Posted: 4/15/2011 3:10:33 PM

We should be playing 2 BCS teams each year, minimum. If they are on the road, so be it. Three would be better. Playing New Mexico and Norfolk State makes no sense to me. Maybe to somebody, but not to me.

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Another Big 10/11/12 Coming to a MAC Stadium

Posted: 4/15/2011 4:07:09 PM

Wins. If we take The Big Step Up, we are a more compelling team. Demand will be there for big schools to play us. The People will speak. Though the schools will resist to some extent; who wants to lose to a MAC team, of all things! Most of the big games will be on the road, of cour$e.

Victories solve problems.

TWT
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RE: Another Big 10/11/12 Coming to a MAC Stadium

Posted: 4/15/2011 4:19:48 PM

MonroeClassmate wrote:

Perhaps creative financing is involved. Ohio State doesn't mind shelling out the $750,000 to host MAC games but maybe the Illinois powers cannot justify the shelling out of a big sum in their annual budget and preferred the wash deal?

See my comments in this thread addressing these scheduling opportunities:

http://bobcatattack.com/messageboard/topic.asp?FromPage=2&ForumPID=6&PID=26188

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TWT
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RE: Another Big 10/11/12 Coming to a MAC Stadium

Posted: 4/15/2011 4:27:53 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

Sorry but it doesn't work like that Monroe. Some of the very strongest non-conference schedules in the MAC are played by Eastern Michigan a program that hasn't had a winning season in 15. Ohio without constraint could have 3 or 4 BCS games on the road every year if it so chose. Kent State is opening at Alabama next season, what have they ever done on the football field? Ohio should be putting the Penn States, Nebraskas, Wisconsins regularly on the schedule and have Illinios, Indiana, Northwestern, ect regularly in a 1 for 1 situation. The more Big Ten this school plays the better as most students/alumni are in/from Big Ten country. If Ohio can pack the house for a Big Ten school every year that will trickle over to season ticket sales and donations for the athletic department. The current scheduling strategy by the athletics department says to the fans we don't care about you. Not a great way to build a fanbase.

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Monroe Slavin
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RE: Another Big 10/11/12 Coming to a MAC Stadium

Posted: 4/15/2011 8:28:25 PM

Wes--I'm talking the dollars AND a program that we can be proud of. kents and emu is not hardly the model.

We do need to build the fan base first. Winning does that.

I know that we'd all like to do wins vs. columbus and Alabama and USC right now. But we gotta be realistic. We gotta start by whupping the sched we have now. Then we can get crazy about up scheduling.

Last Edited: 4/15/2011 8:29:48 PM by Monroe Slavin

oubobcatjohn
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RE: Another Big 10/11/12 Coming to a MAC Stadium

Posted: 4/15/2011 11:12:09 PM

I think we are doing exactly what we need to be to produce consistent winning seasons and reaching bowl games. Playing 3 non-conference games that we have a fair chance at winning plus one money game where we play a BCS conference school and cash a check is perfect. Frank is doing exactly what we need yo do. At the very least we should be 2-2 or 3-1 non-confrence every season and with a 5-3 or better MAC season we go to a bowl. End of Story

When we recruit we can say we have been to 3 bowls in 6 years and a strong favorite to make that 4 in 7 years. You keeping reaching bowls every year and you are looked upon as the top program in the MAC. Teams that play 3 BCS teams like Akron go 1-3 non-confrence and are bowling with a 5-3 MAC record. We go bowling with a 5-3 MAC record. If you playing Indiana or Pitt in Athens you are not going to a bowl. Until we start winning MAC titles and bowls games we aren't at that level where we can beat a BCS team home or away. Take the game you can win and have that carrot of a bowl game for the team. No team that travels well will come to Athens. West Virginia would be the one team that comes to mind and they would never do that.

Voice of Reason
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RE: Another Big 10/11/12 Coming to a MAC Stadium

Posted: 4/16/2011 9:16:31 AM

How is it that everyone on this thread is overlooking the fact that we would be losing at least $800,000 to do a home and home. These decisions aren't about scheduling strategy, they are about money. Ohio Athletics is taking yet another big cut this year. When they took cuts last year, they had to cut positions. They will have to cut more positions again this year. For an Athletic Department that is already short on administrative staffing, that is very bad news. Everyone is acting like the $800,000 payout we get for an away game is something we can afford to give up. WE CAN'T!! We don't schedule home and homes because we lose money on our already razor thin, bare bones budget. Yes, we could schedule a home and home where we essentially swap the payout and make money off ticket sales and concessions. However, we aren't making money from that, we are losing it because we are essentially taking a break even over an $800,000 pay check. This isn't bad scheduling, its fiscal responsibility!

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