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Topic: What is the benifit for staying in the MAC?

Topic: What is the benifit for staying in the MAC?

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Turney13
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What is the benifit for staying in the MAC?

Posted: 3/20/2011 11:20:53 AM

I am curious - lets put football in a vaccum - what benifit is it to us to stay in the MAC? The bowl tie in's? Do we get money from the league? Maybe television exposure... But I am not really sure. Is it for all of the other sports - it helps? I have no basis for this arguement, but what if we were Independent in football and joined Atlantic 10 for other sports (not that they would even say yes) but in a dream world - couldn't we upgrade our football program by being independent? It would force us to beef up the schedule that everyone is crying for. I am sure there are many holes and things I am not thinking of that would make this a possibility. How great would it be to have 12 games a year vs teams we choose to play and Atlantic 10 would be a huge step up for us in Basketball. It seems like the only way to seperate ourselves in this day and age. To many Ohio schools in one conference. If the bowl tie in and the chance to play in Detroit is the only reason to stay in the MAC then I think we would be better off trying it on our own. The MAC has already proved that if we came crawling back in 5 years they would take us with open arms.

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TWT
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RE: What is the benifit for staying in the MAC?

Posted: 3/20/2011 12:32:37 PM

I think the benefit is that Ohio has at least 2 in-state schools at home on the schedule every year and the games against Kent, BG, Miami, Akron do tend to draw better than out-of-state competition. We continue to beat those schools regularly and we keep them down (Kent is still an issue). Its agreed the MAC isn't the toughest non-BCS league so shouldn't then make it an easier road to a BCS game than playing in CUSA or going Independent? Note the negative effect on Marshall's winning percentage by moving to CUSA (which is basically a group of Southern Independents grouped together). I don't buy either that A10 BB is that advantagous. The A10 conference tourney is in Atlantic City where we have no fan support while the MAC plays in Cleveland. Then in the MAC I would put our program #3 of12 in the league in stength and fanwise in Cleveland behind Kent and Akron. Simply speaking, Ohio has the capacity with a 13,000 seat arena to run a higher profile hoops program and Cleveland could be a shoe-in tourney like the way that Butler controls the Horizon League. Its all about Ohio stepping up and maintaining a roster of 13 true D1 scholarship players instead of the 8-9 we regularly play at.

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Pataskala
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RE: What is the benifit for staying in the MAC?

Posted: 3/20/2011 5:36:12 PM

I think the real benefit of staying in the MAC is having four guaranteed home games every year, with the likelihood of five or six total home games. Peden is the sixth smallest stadium in 1A (http://www.sportmapworld.com/collegemap/american-football...; If OU were an independent, in order to get anyone except MAC-level schools to come to Athens Peden would probably have to be expanded by 10,000-15,000 seats (Illinois has the smallest Big 6 stadium at 30,800; Navy is around 35,000 and Army at 40,000). How easily could that be done? Would we have to build a whole new stadium? Ain't gonna happen in this economy. So probably the best we could hope for would be one-and-ones with MAC and Sun Belt schools, Marshall and maybe Army and Navy. In other words, we'd be no better off (and maybe worse off) on the regular season schedule, and would at best be third or fourth backup for minor bowl games.

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oubobcatjohn
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RE: What is the benifit for staying in the MAC?

Posted: 3/23/2011 11:07:04 PM

We have a chance to win something in the MAC. We are gonna be out spent in any other conference. For our budget the MAC allows Ohio to be competitive. Marshall isn't competive in CUSA. They have made fewer bowls and no NCAA tournament since leaving the MAC. From a competitive standpoint Marshall had struggled since leaving the MAC. MAC is a pretty stable league. CUSA could fall apart if they lose key schools to the Big East, Big 12 or MWC. MAC has been around for 63 years. We play a title game in Detroit and the MAC tournament in Cleveland. Those are two cities close to majority of our alumi. Staying independent is for Army, Navy and Notre Dame because they are unique schools and aren't defined by a state or a region of the country. We are the state school. The MAC is exactly where we belong. We can't afford to operate in the Big East with our budget. A-10 is no better than the MAC. A-10 is a church league. We don't fit in that league. MAC is public universities.

Pete Chouteau
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RE: What is the benifit for staying in the MAC?

Posted: 3/24/2011 11:13:32 AM

I second that emotion.

Kinggeorge4
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RE: What is the benifit for staying in the MAC?

Posted: 3/24/2011 11:45:34 AM

With our $ problem here on campus, is there another league out there that we could fit into and serve us well? I do not see it at the moment. This is what we can afford at the moment. Lets try to dominate this league before we jump to another.

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Bert Presley
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RE: What is the benifit for staying in the MAC?

Posted: 3/24/2011 12:13:01 PM

What it really all boils down to is this, we are in no way able to be in a BCS Confrence, even the Big East. Which puts us in a situation where it is MAC, C-USA, or Independent.

Independent is not an option, because we would never be able to fill a schedule with our resources and still have the same or better competition than we have now, and we are an Ohio team not a national team.

C-USA has some very good teams, but the athletic budgets balloon for some of these schools, meaning we would have to spend more, and in addition, the cost of travel would make it crippling.

The MAC was founded by Ohio, and it has local universities, and we can win the confrence.

All in all, stick with the MAC, and if confrence reshuffling happens, lock arms with miami, BG, and Toledo and get all 4 of us somewhere. (Akron and Kent just don't go well in a future confrence realignment)

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Jeff McKinney
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RE: What is the benifit for staying in the MAC?

Posted: 3/24/2011 12:59:52 PM

I agree that the best option is to try to maximize MAC opportunities, and do what we can to strengthen the league.

Another option would be to try to align with A10 for basketball and reclassify football, but I don't see that happening at Ohio.

An alignment with the Missouri Valley might work, but again, it would take a reclassification of football and I don't see that happening.

Bert Presley
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RE: What is the benifit for staying in the MAC?

Posted: 3/24/2011 1:07:40 PM

Even if we did go with the Missouri Valley or the A-10, the travel is what hampers you.

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Joe McKinley
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RE: What is the benifit for staying in the MAC?

Posted: 3/24/2011 3:15:17 PM

Bert Presley wrote:

Even if we did go with the Missouri Valley or the A-10, the travel is what hampers you.

Good point about travel. I think the MAC is pretty economical for us across sports.

Of the MAC East schools Buffalo is the furthest drive from Athens at around 6 1/2 hours. Everybody else is within 4. You can throw in EMU, WMU, Toledo and Ball State as pretty short west trips.

The closest MVC member is Indiana State at around 5 1/2 hours from Athens. Evansville is next at 6 hours.
In some sports the A10 has reasonably close schools, but not in others (football).

And, as Jeff notes, A10 and MVC affiliations would require a reclassification or elimination of football.

This doesn't address rules regarding which sports must/should be offered by either of these leagues.

Last Edited: 3/24/2011 3:16:37 PM by Joe McKinley

Monroe Slavin
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RE: What is the benifit for staying in the MAC?

Posted: 3/24/2011 9:55:25 PM

We stay MAC by choice. As you know from the consensus on this board, there is no alternative conference which is better.

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perimeterpost
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RE: What is the benifit for staying in the MAC?

Posted: 3/26/2011 1:28:41 AM

if you've ever popped over to the Marshall message board some form of this topic seems to almost always be in discussion. There's a thread right now in fact- http://marshall.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=2236&tid=156650840&mid=156650840&sid=1082&style=2

Marshall was dominant in the MAC, multiple conf championships, multiple bowl wins, multiple top 25 rankings. How bad can the MAC be if you're able to finish the season ranked 10th in the country? Since leaving the MAC the Terd has has one winning season (7-6).

So their fanbase goes through this circular discussion where they hug each other and reafirm that the move to CUSA was so much better for them and bad mouth how bad the MAC supposedly was for them. They say things like "more prestige" and "bigger budgets". But, as one WVU fan tried to delicately point out, nobody really sees CUSA as being head and shoulders above the MAC or any other non AQ conf. They scoff and call him crazy but they know its true.

This is the false idol that Temple is praying to now. Somehow they'll be this great national power... if they could just leave the MAC. They completely look over the fact that their success is a result of playing the bottom of the MAC, nothing more.

The reality is that if OHIO left the MAC they would have 3 options- BCS, Indy, or CUSA/Sun Belt. I'd love to get a Big Ten/Big East/ACC invite, but it ain't happenin. Indy is a death wish, we don't have a national fanbase to be a Notre Dame/Army/Navy. That leaves CUSA or Sun Belt. Marshall fans like to bemoan playing directional MAC schools like its so beneath them but does anyone really give a flip about UAB or UTEP?

That brings right back to where we started- The MAC. If we want to follow in Marshall's footsteps we should start with dominating the MAC, and then have the wisedom to see that the grass isn't always greener.

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Pataskala
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RE: What is the benifit for staying in the MAC?

Posted: 3/26/2011 9:59:55 PM

The only way that CUSA bowls are better than the bowls MAC teams play is in the opponent (maybe payouts are slightly better). Last year, CUSA teams played BYU, Louisville, Hawai'i, Maryland, Army and Georgia. They went 2-4, with wins over Hawai'i and Georgia. The bowl games were New Mexico, Beef O'Brady's St. Petersburg, Hawai'i, Military, Armed Forces and Liberty. The Liberty and Hawai'i are the only ones with more prestige that the MAC's bowls, mainly because they've been around longer. I don't remember any CUSA team ever being even close to qualifying for a major bowl. They have their share of directionals, too: East Carolina, Southern Miss, Southern Methodist and Central Florida. They also have Tulane, which a few years ago had the most red ink among Div. 1A programs and was set to dump football. CUSA? No, thank you. I'll take the MAC.

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Monroe Slavin
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RE: What is the benifit for staying in the MAC?

Posted: 3/28/2011 5:32:23 PM

Can there be any doubt but that we'll be in the SEC, PAC-10 or BEast within two years?!

Sorry, these much-more-than-perennial 'better conference' threads are 100% unrealistic. And quite tired.

There's not a shred of sensible, credible evidence of anything other than MAC.

OhioCatFan
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RE: What is the benifit for staying in the MAC?

Posted: 3/28/2011 5:50:36 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

No we won't be in any of the conferences you name at this juncture; however, it does appear that some conference realignment is on the horizon, and it would behove Ohio to have contingency plans in place. The idea that I still like best is the development of the so-called Mountain East Conference with the likes of Ohio, Marshall, Miami, East Carolina, Appalachian State, Memphis, Western Kentucky, and UAB. And, even though they are in the flatlands of Ohio we could even include BUGS -- since their bball program will soon be on the rise. Take the best (or most available) eight of those schools and you'd have a fairly geographically compact conference that would be better top to bottom in football and basketball than the MAC.

Last Edited: 3/28/2011 5:51:15 PM by OhioCatFan

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oubobcatjohn
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RE: What is the benifit for staying in the MAC?

Posted: 4/1/2011 10:57:31 PM

Our tradition is in the MAC. It would be a huge mistake for Miami, Ohio, Toledo, BGSU, Akron, Kent State to leave the MAC like Marshall did. We are fortunate to have Solich as coach who would be worth well over a million at a BCS school. Solich has taken Ohio to three bowls in six years. 15 years ago we were dead last in the country. Now we are a contender for MAC titles. Bobcats have played more games on national TV in last six years than ever before. No one is laughing at Ohio anymore. Those of us that attended Ohio during the Lictenburg era are amazed at how things are for Ohio football. If we keep getting bowls in the MAC we will earn respect nationally. That is how BYU, TCU, Southern Miss, and Boise St did it. They all reached bowl 10 years in a row. If Ohio can be the program that leads the MAC every year it will be recognized. Troy out of the Sun belt is doing exact this. The are new to FBS, but have made a name for themselves. We need to win our first MAC title since 1968 and our first bowl game ever. I think those dominos will fall very soon for this program.

DublinCat
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RE: What is the benifit for staying in the MAC?

Posted: 4/2/2011 11:24:39 AM

perimeterpost wrote:

Marshall also lost multiple scholarships and their best ever coach upon departing the MAC due to cheating NCAA violations for each year they participated in the conference. In addition they played easier MAC schedules including multiple title games in Huntington. I am not aware of any significant BCS victories better than Ohio's Minnesota, Illinois, Kentucky and Maryland over a similar time period. They are insignificant in basketball having zero NCAA wins. They do have a few more fans which should be expected in West Virginia's largest media market. Miami and Ball State both proved you can be a Top 10 -15 football team in the MAC without them.

Last Edited: 4/2/2011 11:28:57 AM by DublinCat

OU87

Pataskala
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RE: What is the benifit for staying in the MAC?

Posted: 4/2/2011 12:48:45 PM

DublinCat wrote:

]

Marshall also lost multiple scholarships and their best ever coach upon departing the MAC due to cheating NCAA violations for each year they participated in the conference. In addition they played easier MAC schedules including multiple title games in Huntington. I am not aware of any significant BCS victories better than Ohio's Minnesota, Illinois, Kentucky and Maryland over a similar time period. They are insignificant in basketball having zero NCAA wins. They do have a few more fans which should be expected in West Virginia's largest media market. Miami and Ball State both proved you can be a Top 10 -15 football team in the MAC without them.

I hate to give them any kind of credit, but the Terd did have several significant BCS wins while they were in the MAC: South Carolina and Louisville (bowl) in '98; Clemson and BYU (bowl) in '99; Cincy (bowl) in '00; Louisville (bowl) in '02; #6 Kansas St. in '03; Cincy (bowl) in '04. But you're right about the MAC championships; the big reason they were in the MAC is their deal to have the MAC championship played in Huntington. They left shortly after the league office decided to have it elsewhere. I wonder, too: they jumped to CUSA in '05, which was Solich's first year at OU. Coincidence?

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DublinCat
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RE: What is the benifit for staying in the MAC?

Posted: 4/2/2011 1:50:20 PM

Pataskala wrote:

DublinCat wrote:

Louisville and Cincy were not BCS teams playing in CUSA at the time and BYU classified in a mid major league too. KSU is clearly their marque win. Without a 51+ YD FG it would be our marquee win too. The other two were bottom feeders at the time like Kentucky and Maryland. While Minnesota beat OSU after we beat them and Illinois "almost" upset OSU shortly after we beat them on the road. However, takeout the years in which the NCAA declared sanctions for cheating and they don't have much to be proud of in terms of wins.

Last Edited: 4/2/2011 1:57:12 PM by DublinCat

OU87

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RE: What is the benifit for staying in the MAC?

Posted: 4/2/2011 1:57:17 PM

And, don't forget that Marshall was one last second 54-yard Luckeye field goal away from taking the Evil Empire into OT in that same time period. It's the closest a MAC school has ever come to beating A&M.

C Money
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RE: What is the benifit for staying in the MAC?

Posted: 4/2/2011 2:59:34 PM

I may be wrong, but I don't think Marshall has a single win over a BCS conference opponent since they left the MAC. They should have beaten KSU, but their head coach couldn't figure out how time outs work. Same with WVU last year. They have a shot this coming season versus Louisville, but most Marshall fans I know are already chalking that up as a loss.

As far as our status in the MAC, the conference has to do a better job of maximizing TV revenue. If the NCAA comes down hard on osu and includes a TV ban, the conference will have no excuse for not having an ESPN game each Saturday.

Mike Johnson
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RE: What is the benifit for staying in the MAC?

Posted: 4/2/2011 4:01:58 PM

OhioCatFan wrote:

Hmmm...you might be right, but my oft-leaky memory says the closest call was 21-17 over BG when a wide open BG receiver dropped a pass on the OSU goal line in the closing seconds that would have put the W next to BG.

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Turney13
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RE: What is the benifit for staying in the MAC?

Posted: 4/2/2011 4:28:48 PM

The greatest MAC football day in the history of the league...

http://scores.espn.go.com/college-football/scoreboard?confId=15&seasonYear=2003&seasonType=2&weekNumber=5

pittsburgh
alabama
colorado state
kansas state

and almost Ohio state

in one day...

Turney Duff
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Monroe Slavin
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RE: What is the benifit for staying in the MAC?

Posted: 4/2/2011 6:19:59 PM

That 'greatest day scorebard' must be a mistake--it had 'kron with a win.

It has very little to do with what conf we're in. It's all about us putting up huge W's. The first three games this year are absolutely critical. Must get the W's and get the casual fan excited.

GoCats105
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RE: What is the benifit for staying in the MAC?

Posted: 4/7/2011 8:36:12 AM

Jeff McKinney wrote:

If we ever went to another conference for basketball and reclassified football, I always thought the Horizon or the Ohio Valley would be a good call.

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