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Topic: What type of school in Athens would lead to the best town/gown relations? (NT)

Topic: What type of school in Athens would lead to the best town/gown relations? (NT)

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Jeff McKinney
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What type of school in Athens would lead to the best town/gown relations? (NT)

Posted: 7/12/2011 6:14:43 PM

What type of school in Athens would lead to the best town/gown relations? (NT)

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OhioCatFan
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RE: What type of school in Athens would lead to the best town/gown relations?

Posted: 7/12/2011 6:33:47 PM

I really don't think the name has much to do with it. It's the attitude of the folks at the U that make the difference. President Baker was probably the best ambassador for the U with the town folks we've ever had. President McDavis has made some strides with the Appalachian Scholars program and some other initiatives. Hey, if we still had our original name -- American Western University -- OSU could have become the University of Ohio in 1914 as they proposed to the Legislature. And, we'd have one less fight on our hands. But, the town-gown issue wouldn't change at all, IMHO.

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Pataskala
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RE: What type of school in Athens would lead to the best town/gown relations?

Posted: 7/12/2011 6:46:19 PM

I think the word "university" is a big turnoff for most Athens natives. The School of Mines would be better; or maybe Podunk Academy.

Seriously, it's not so much the name as the communications with the community. The locals have always loved the money the students bring into the community but have hated the noise and uproar, and that's probably not going to change. But they would tolerate it more if there was better communications between the administration and the community at large and more of a positive student presence (volunteerism, etc.) in the community, and more publicity about it.

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First Street Forever
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RE: What type of school in Athens would lead to the best town/gown relations?

Posted: 7/12/2011 6:51:33 PM

I don't know about the town/gown thing, but the Southeast Ohio name would fit perfectly with the MAC brand of athletics.

And truthfully, I don't think I would have applied to Ohio if it was Southeast Ohio. Back when I did my college search using the Barron's CD-ROM at the school library (this is before the Internet) Ohio came up after putting in my variables. I didn't know Ohio at all, being from NJ. But it was a state's name and university and that had some cachet in my 17 year old mind. If it was Southeast Ohio I would have probably passed as it would have sounded too sketchy and "lesser rate", like a generic brand. The "rose by any other name" saying wouldn't have applied to me then - and probably not now either.

What were my variables you ask: Very competitive or above rating, advertising major, 15K+ enrollment, State's name, a couple states away from home, decent tuition...

Last Edited: 7/12/2011 6:53:03 PM by First Street Forever

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RE: What type of school in Athens would lead to the best town/gown relations?

Posted: 7/12/2011 6:52:28 PM

I won't vote. I was recently in Athens for a week and quite honestly Athens and the greater Athens area doesn't have very much to do with the other towns in "southeast" ohio. The hilly geography for the most part makes the distances twice as far as what they are in linear miles. Everyone knows that the Ironton-Portsmouth area is tied more closely with Huntington but even Marietta or Logan are in really seperate areas from Athens. Alumni will support Ohio Athletics from those areas but I don't think its reasonable to expect people trying to just make ends meet in those communites jumping on the bobcat wagon. The university would be better served trying to get sponsorships in the Columbus market with the new bypass in place. Sell Athens as Athens and not a voyage into southeast Ohio. Get the whole state down to Athens for events without even having to step off the highway.

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TWT
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RE: What type of school in Athens would lead to the best town/gown relations?

Posted: 7/12/2011 7:06:52 PM

OhioCatFan wrote:

Town-Gown considerations are not really important. The Greater Athens area has about 40,000 residents, of which 21,000 are students. Another 3,000 work at the university so multiplying that conservatively figuring an average household size of 3 that means that another 6,000 are directly economically dependent from working for the university. Everyone else in the area is there because of working for a university supported service. The Athens area is almost exclusively a greater university community. I'm sure there are attitudes and biases against the students within the university community but that its because those people have a problem and would have a problem under any situation.

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JSF
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RE: What type of school in Athens would lead to the best town/gown relations?

Posted: 7/12/2011 8:21:28 PM

Uncle Wes wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

Town-Gown considerations are not really important.

Um... yes. Yes, they are. They're very important. When the university asks the city for permission to link the Road to Nowhere with Richland and when the city asks the university to help pay for a new fire truck, town-gown relationship becomes extremely important.

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Mike Johnson
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RE: What type of school in Athens would lead to the best town/gown relations?

Posted: 7/12/2011 11:57:12 PM

The woman - Kim, late 40s - who lives next door is deeply religious and is a member of a group that has done mission work from Ukaine (building houses) westward. Next week she and her group will be in Athens County, staffing what she describes as "an outdoor soup kitchen." She then said that she has been told that 75 percent of Athens County residents are living below the poverty level.

If that percentage is accurate, it likely says a lot about town (county)/gown relations.

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Mike Coleman
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RE: What type of school in Athens would lead to the best town/gown relations?

Posted: 7/13/2011 12:05:46 AM

Mike Johnson wrote:

...she has been told that 75 percent of Athens County residents are living below the poverty level.

34 percent. Up from 27 percent in 2000.

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/39/39009.html

TWT
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RE: What type of school in Athens would lead to the best town/gown relations?

Posted: 7/13/2011 7:31:59 AM

Mike Coleman wrote:

Mike Johnson wrote:

...she has been told that 75 percent of Athens County residents are living below the poverty level.

34 percent. Up from 27 percent in 2000.

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/39/39009.html

Its that Nelsonville to Glouster to Logan pocket that is ground zero for the poverty, some of which is in Athens county. That area is close to 50 percent.

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OhioCatFan
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RE: What type of school in Athens would lead to the best town/gown relations?

Posted: 7/13/2011 9:50:03 AM

Mike Coleman wrote:

Mike Johnson wrote:

...she has been told that 75 percent of Athens County residents are living below the poverty level.

34 percent. Up from 27 percent in 2000.

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/39/39009.html

And those figures include a lot of OU and Hocking College students, which always confounds such statistics in Athens County. While Athens County does have some pockets of real severe poverty, it's always hard to get a statistical handle on things because of the high percentage of post-high school students in the mix. These folks typically don't earn much of their own money and, hence, are "below the poverty line." Though some attempts are made to statistically exclude students, I've never seen a study that actually had a good methodology for doing that and was able to exclude more than the students who were living in institutional housing (e.g., dorms). From my own ancedotal observations, I'd say that Vinton, Meigs and Monroe counties have worse poverty rates than Athens County. All I know for sure is that in Athens County we don't have reliable statistics on such matters and that there is a sub-cultural here that likes to ulitilize and promote such statistics as we do have to promote their own agendas.

First Street Forever
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RE: What type of school in Athens would lead to the best town/gown relations?

Posted: 7/13/2011 10:45:41 AM

Numbers, schmumbers...

Unless there was a tech boom after I graduated (some do call the Athens area the Silicon Hocking Valley) one doesn't need numbers to see that the surrounding area is mightily poor. Powerfully poor even, I reckon.

Then again, maybe all those shabby barns with the peeling painted Chew Mail Pouch advertisements were fixed up into luxury condos for those fancy shoe-wearing yuppies. It's been awhile since I've been back to Athens.

As far as town/gown goes, I would like to see (and this may be happening already) the university combing classroom teaching with helping the community. Students get real life experience, community gets some service. Again, I'm sure this is happening, but maybe there can be more of it. J-School students can maybe help at the Torch Gazette by assisting their financial correspondent in getting prices for squirrel bellies across the hollows. Biz school students can help balance the books at the Dr. Jethro's Bleed, Feed n' Seed. Those leeches are tax deductible y'know...

All un-PC terrible jokes aside, increased services via classroom is a win/win.

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OhioCatFan
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RE: What type of school in Athens would lead to the best town/gown relations?

Posted: 7/13/2011 10:54:05 AM

FSF, ignoring your attempts at sarcasm, you might like to know that for the last decade or so, my wife has been involved in service learning (a cooperative arrangement between the English Department and the College of Education) in helping to train teachers for areas such as Chauncey. In fact, the original program was called the "Chauncey Partnership." Perhaps, you do need to get back to Athens County . . . and take a look around.

Cat4ever
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RE: What type of school in Athens would lead to the best town/gown relations?

Posted: 7/13/2011 1:17:03 PM

First Street Forever wrote:

I don't know about the town/gown thing, but the Southeast Ohio name would fit perfectly with the MAC brand of athletics.

FSF, Thanks for lightening the rhetoric

in the context of a discussion about poverty and such

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Casper71
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RE: What type of school in Athens would lead to the best town/gown relations?

Posted: 7/13/2011 3:37:13 PM

Folks-talk of town n gown relationships have been going on since I arrived at Ohio University in 1967 as a college Freshmen. Seems like they have never really "change". The relationship seems to move in shades of gray from acceptance to jealousy and everything in between.

I think I know two things about Athens County. First the area does look poor. Second, my wife's first job was teaching at Shade elementary. Years ago, obviously, but back then kids slept in the back of junked cars at night. My wife was very aware of the poverty in "rural" Athens County compared to the Athens folks associated with the University that seemed much more middle class.

I doubt things have really changed much. Most of Athens County looks poor and is. Much of the town prospers because of or in spite of the University and the surrounding area.

Last Edited: 7/13/2011 3:38:40 PM by Casper71

Jeff McKinney
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RE: What type of school in Athens would lead to the best town/gown relations?

Posted: 7/13/2011 4:12:03 PM

So many people within a 50 mile radius of Athens view Ohio University as an elitist enclave in a poor, Appalachian culture...and perception is reality. For example, people look at the construction of very fine buildings (e.g., the new Baker) on the OU campus and complain about why there is not more state money going to the "average person." If you try to explain how the funding pots work for capital projects, they don't listen. Another example is that locals notice that many of the resident students are from NE Ohio, Columbus, or elsewhere...people who do not have a vested interest in SE Ohio.

Funny thing is...go to Huntington and the town-gown situation with Marshall is very, very different. It's like the whole metro area gets "behind the Herd." Marshall is not viewed as an elitist enclave. Is this due to the type of students who enroll there (mostly from within a 100 mile radius), or because of the way the university communicates with the local populace?

Bobcatbob
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RE: What type of school in Athens would lead to the best town/gown relations?

Posted: 7/13/2011 4:48:28 PM

Mike Coleman wrote:

Mike Johnson wrote:

...she has been told that 75 percent of Athens County residents are living below the poverty level.

34 percent. Up from 27 percent in 2000.

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/39/39009.html

I can't back it up but I do recall hearing a number like 75% applied to Athens County in terms of children in homes living below the poverty level. Whatever the numbers are, they don't do justice to the problem.

As it relates to the town-gown thing, both parties have to realize that if not for OU, Athens would soon be a desperate place. Regardless of the name, OU's mission has to include as much support to the local population as the school and the state can muster simply for socio-economic reasons.

Paul Graham
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RE: What type of school in Athens would lead to the best town/gown relations?

Posted: 7/13/2011 6:43:37 PM

Jeff McKinney wrote:

That's very interesting Jeff. Do you think that the university officials do a good job in trying to work with local folks? I think your analysis of Ohio v. Marshall is right on. The student body demographics are very different in Athens compared to the surrounding area. Here's a quick and sad story on this topic:

I was pledging a frat that shall remain nameless and we went on a date party to a local camping site. I can't be sure what town this was but I remember it taking about a 1/2 hour or so to arrive. The camp site had lots of different stuff going on including miniature golf, a driving range, go-carts, etc... When we pulled up to the place I remember being surprised and a bit saddened at the level poverty of those who lived within view.

Needless to say, everyone got trashed. At some point, the firewood supply had been exhausted and instead of calling it a night the older frat dudes started burning stuff that belonged to the camp site. Signs for the driving range, stuff from the mini-golf course, a giant replica totem pole, etc... Basically anything they could get their hands on. It was sickening to watch because I knew how little these people had and here were these rich kids from suburban Columbus and Cleveland burning it and laughing. The next day when we left there was trash EVERYWHERE. No one cleaned up after themselves, they just left to head back to campus.

After we got back, the camp site called and they were not so happy. I think the frat paid them about 2K to make up for everything they had burned. The rest of the pledges and I drove back there that day and delivered the check and cleaned the entire place. When we arrived those people looked at us like we were scum and I don't blame them.

Here's my point: some students (certainly not all) view Athens and the surrounding areas as a toilet, both literally and figuratively. They behave belligerently and arrogantly towards the "townies" (a word that I greatly dislike) and generally act like spoiled brats. This has to get on the nerves of local residents.

Last Edited: 7/13/2011 6:44:12 PM by Paul Graham

OhioCatFan
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RE: What type of school in Athens would lead to the best town/gown relations?

Posted: 7/13/2011 9:40:59 PM

Paul Graham wrote:

Here's my point: some students (certainly not all) view Athens and the surrounding areas as a toilet, both literally and figuratively. They behave belligerently and arrogantly towards the "townies" (a word that I greatly dislike) and generally act like spoiled brats. This has to get on the nerves of local residents.

Thanks, Paul, for your truthful, if painful story. You've hit the nail on the head. A number of years ago I actually came up with a sarcastic bumper-sticker style slogan that sums up this attitude:

Think Globally, Trash Locally!

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RE: What type of school in Athens would lead to the best town/gown relations?

Posted: 7/13/2011 10:19:08 PM

Jeff McKinney wrote:

I think the study body makeup defintiely has some to do with it because so many students who go there are from there. Such a large part of the campus is the community's own. Locals make up such a tiny percentage of OU's population that certainly I think some of the people in the area view students almost as intruders. Ohio University is unique because there are so few commuters and because of its rural location.

My interaction with "townies" was somewhat limited but probably greater than most students. There were few other college students at the church I attended while I was at OU. I think most of the people in the church there thought very highly of me because they didn't view me the way they viewed most college students, which generally wasn't good. Also, my wife is from Meigs County. It really seemed the people there had more of a feeling of indifference toward Ohio University.

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RE: What type of school in Athens would lead to the best town/gown relations?

Posted: 7/13/2011 11:22:32 PM

Paul Graham wrote:

The comments on the Athens News' story about Palmerfest last year supports this. There's a lot of bad blood on both sides. It's such a shame because efforts to unite the two sides generally go really well. We need more of it. When one side reaches out to the other, the reception is routinely warm. We just need to connect with one another.

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RE: What type of school in Athens would lead to the best town/gown relations?

Posted: 7/14/2011 12:23:27 AM

One of the better threads I've seen on here.

Bobcat36
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RE: What type of school in Athens would lead to the best town/gown relations?

Posted: 7/14/2011 10:08:41 AM

BattleCat wrote:

One of the better threads I've seen on here.

Agree...

Within my responsibilities managing the golf course during my time at Ohio, I had the opportunity to interact with locals more frequently than many students and always found those interactions to be friendly and mutually beneficial. I had some very good friends that were members of the grounds staff as a result. That said, it's obviously a very tenuous relationship and unfortunately easily damaged by a small group such as the frat mentioned above.

Also (to slightly lighten the mood)...Bonus points to Jeff for "populace"...

GoBobcats!!!! Always have been and always will be... Ohio's First and Finest!

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RE: What type of school in Athens would lead to the best town/gown relations?

Posted: 7/14/2011 10:30:40 AM

Jeff McKinney wrote:

Huntington is a very pro business community. The local business community in Huntington, Charleston and Parkersburg support the Herd. The University helps to promote economic development from Huntington, Charleston to Parkersburg.

Athens is considered a VERY anti business community. Lots of non profit economic development groups but any development has to fit their narrow agenda. The funding of some of these groups is alarming compared to the little results they have produced. More and more land is now owned by the University (State) thus produces no property tax and little revenue for fire trucks and police. It’s a battle to operate a business of any significance in Athens and many view the public employee decision makers as those with little experience, terrible results yet guaranteed life time incomes. What is left of the local business community gets to pay for it and when they run out of money (which they always do) they always look for new ways to take more. Try to get a private business project approved in Athens vs. Huntington and see which happens first. A lot of townies like living in their home town….they just have to work somewhere else.

OU87

JSF
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RE: What type of school in Athens would lead to the best town/gown relations?

Posted: 7/14/2011 3:45:15 PM

DublinCat wrote:

Athens is considered a VERY anti business community. Lots of non profit economic development groups but any development has to fit their narrow agenda.

I don't see this reputation as deserved. The last decade has seen a huge growth of expansion and development. Freaking Wal-Mart opened up shop despite a large resistance effort. East State Street went from a neighborhood street to the commercial center of town. Court Street is in better shape than it was, say, five or six years ago. Diagnostic Hybrids and Third Sun are two of the state's biggest success stories. What businesses have been beating down Athens' door, only to get stiffed?

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