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Topic: Temple leaving the dumpster fire.....

Topic: Temple leaving the dumpster fire.....

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Bobcat Love
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
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Temple leaving the dumpster fire.....

Posted: 10/10/2011 3:03:42 PM

I don't blame them one bit. I would do the same and run for the hills if I was in their shoes.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7084162/bi...

The first conference that came calling, I would jump ship and NEVER look back. If I'm Temple, I probably just erase this era from the record books. "Um, not sure what you're talking about...we were NEVER in the MAC for football...."

MH55 and others come on here and rail about how great Temple is. In one sense, I feel bad for them. Philly is an absolute dump, they know it, and have to live their lives in that hell-hole. I mean seriously, it's hell on earth. You people from Northern Ohio know what I'm talking about.

On the other hand, TU has so much more mass market appeal then any other school in this awful conference. TU is like a girl that hasn't figured out yet that she's really hot, so she keeps wearing clothes from the Salvation Army. Good facilities. Big media market. Great basketball tradition. Up and coming football school. Seriously, I'd run for the hills stripping my clothes off and screaming hallelujah that I was getting out of this dreg of a conference.

Only schools like us, Akron, Kent, BG, Toledo, EMU think this is a great conference anymore. We strive to be the best in the MAC in all these sports, yet the reality is that MAC is completely irrelevant in the national landscape. If anything, it's a laughingstock at this point. Comic relief.

Most of noticed it years ago, but we stayed quiet out of respect for history and tradition. Now that history and tradition have gone South with conference realignment, I don't feel the need to sit back and be complimentary of this sham of a conference any longer.

It's only a matter of time before UMASS figures the same thing out....if they ever actually enter the MAC for competition.

#leavethemac

DelBobcat
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RE: Temple leaving the dumpster fire.....

Posted: 10/10/2011 3:09:19 PM

Bobcat Love wrote:

MH55 and others come on here and rail about how great Temple is. In one sense, I feel bad for them. Philly is an absolute dump, they know it, and have to live their lives in that hell-hole. I mean seriously, it's hell on earth. You people from Northern Ohio know what I'm talking about.

How much time have you spent in Philadelphia to make such a blanket statement? I mean come on, when you say things like that it makes you sound so freaking ignorant. Believe me I dislike MH55's trolling as much as anybody but Philly actually has a lot to offer. I personally like it better than any of the major Ohio cities. Center City is a nice place with a lot of cultural, dining, and entertainment opportunities and there are beautiful neighborhoods like Spruce Hill, Society Hill, and Passyunk Square.

I'll take your opinions more seriously when you actually weigh in on something you have the slightest clue about.

BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012

SBH
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RE: Temple leaving the dumpster fire.....

Posted: 10/10/2011 3:13:55 PM

Don't see any report that Temple has even been offered membership in this slightly upgraded dumpster.

But seriously, Love, where are you going to get the money to switch conferences? How are you going to come up with $10 million a year to sustain a higher profile program? Who's going to step forward to fork over $30 million to expand/enhance Peden when we're struggling to come up with less than half that for an IPF? Is McDavis just going to reallocate resources to athletics? He could, but there'd be a faculty revolt if not an outright work stoppage. That would be horrific PR, the likes of which we haven't seen since 1970-73, when enrollment declined from 19k to 11k and the school had to be rescued by the state.

Bobcat Love
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RE: Temple leaving the dumpster fire.....

Posted: 10/10/2011 3:23:07 PM

I spent 5 months straight in Philly on a consulting assignment (M-Thurs). Downtown, Villanova (Conshohocken), King of Prussia, and Quakertown - I feel qualified to speak on the shortcomings of the place. I've also been there on 3 other occasions.

Temple has not been offered membership in the Big East yet, but an invite and MAC departure is a forgone conclusion.

I have no alternative for us. Because of our woeful alumni/private contributions, we have no choice but to wither away in the MAC. It's a sad reality. I'm simply stating that I refuse to be a standard bearer for a conference that comes up short in so many attributes when compared to other conferences.

What do you think Temple's exit fee will be? Thought so. My point is made. While other conferences are commanding tens of millions of dollars in exit fees combined with keeping schools locked into the conference for a number of years - the MAC will most certainly let Temple go with nary a reasonable exit fee or a contractual obligation to fulfill their remaining commitments. The weakness of this conference administration will never prove more vivid when this comes to bear. Mark my words.

TUVideo Guy
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RE: Temple leaving the dumpster fire.....

Posted: 10/10/2011 4:30:15 PM

Hold on... I would not want to erase the time in the MAC IF a Big East invite comes. I'll say it again but we owe the MAC a huge debt of gratitude for giving us a home and allowing Temple to build a program.

I also don't think you've ever been to Philadelphia.

Ted Thompson
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RE: Temple leaving the dumpster fire.....

Posted: 10/10/2011 6:04:22 PM

Love,

According to this article I found, UMASS and Temple have the same agreement with the MAC. This link contains the actual contract between UMASS and the MAC: http://www.gazettenet.com/2011/05/03/contract-details-football-upgrade-released

Excerpt:

Temple originally joined the MAC on a six-year contract in 2007 after being dropped by the Big East. UMass' contract calls for an open-ended agreement with no termination date. According to McCutcheon, Temple now has the same membership agreement as UMass.

If the Minutemen chose to withdraw from the MAC to join another Bowl Subdivision conference or become an FBS independent, UMass would be assessed a fee of $2.5 million and would be required to give two years advanced notice.

But if either UMass or Temple were to announce a decision to leave, the other's membership could change.

The MAC would have the option of retaining the remaining school as a full member, replacing the departing school with another program or converting the remaining team's membership to a term contract of no less than two years.

In the event of a term contract, the remaining school would only need to pay $500,000 if it chose to withdraw.

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First Street Forever
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RE: Temple leaving the dumpster fire.....

Posted: 10/10/2011 7:17:57 PM

Bobcat Love wrote:

I have no alternative for us. Because of our woeful alumni/private contributions, we have no choice but to wither away in the MAC.

You actually made one small, but critical omission.

The last sentence should have been written as "we have no choice but to wither away in the MAC as it is eventually downgraded to a new, lower division of collegiate football, a la D-1AA. "

Might as well face the inevitable truth that the MAC's days as a D1 football conference are dwindling. The end is nigh - I think it is even prophesied in the Kensington Runestone or something.

I don't endorse the furry lifestyle, but when the Bobkitten is involved things can change mighty quickly...

OhioCatFan
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RE: Temple leaving the dumpster fire.....

Posted: 10/10/2011 7:24:37 PM

First Street Forever wrote:

Bobcat Love wrote:

I have no alternative for us. Because of our woeful alumni/private contributions, we have no choice but to wither away in the MAC.

Actually, the opposite is true, more schools, even below current MAC levels, are going up to the FBS level. Those considering and probably making the move include Delaware, UMass, Appy State, ODU, JDU, and a few others that I can't recall right at the moment.

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

Ohio69
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RE: Temple leaving the dumpster fire.....

Posted: 10/10/2011 8:03:07 PM

So Bobcat Love, where does all the money come from for Ohio or the MAC to move up in the NCAA world?

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

perimeterpost
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RE: Temple leaving the dumpster fire.....

Posted: 10/10/2011 8:52:02 PM

it must be tough, always having to be the smartest guy in the room while looking at everything with such utter contempt.

MY STATE. MY TEAM.

bobcat28
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RE: Temple leaving the dumpster fire.....

Posted: 10/10/2011 8:55:12 PM

Come on Love Philly isnt so bad! Granted it's no Manhattan but Center City's not a bad place. Lots of great restaurants down there.

Agree with everything else, the MAC ship is sinking. Been saying it for years. If we could somehow kick out the bottom 3rd of the league it could become respectable again, that's our best option right now.

Last Edited: 10/10/2011 9:33:52 PM by bobcat28

Bobcat Love
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RE: Temple leaving the dumpster fire.....

Posted: 10/10/2011 8:55:16 PM

A. 69, you are lost. Read my posts. There is no solution. Our private donors simply aren't there. We are stuck in neutral or reverse.

B. TU Video Guy - Ask the folks at the closed Wampler Turkey plant in Franconia whether I was in Philly or not. Trust me, they know I was there.

C. Now that Ted is here, we have to argue logically and without insult. This cripples me, but I'll do my best.

1. For all intents and purposes, Temple leaving actually HELPS Umass according to the contract. When (not if) Temple leaves, the contract converts to a term agreement and the exit fee goes from $2.5 Million to basically $250,000 if they play one season of football after Temple leaves. Even without the exit of the other school, Temple or UMASS can claim other conditions and get out scot-free with no exit fee.

2. The contract (I'm paraphrasing) states that UMASS is joining an NCAA DIvision 1-A football conference that competes in the Football Bowl Subdivision. That is the set market in my opinion (no AQ or non-AQ status specified), so lets look at other exit fees from the same group of schools from the set market:

Texas A&M = $28 Million to be negotiated to $10-$15 Million
Nebraska = $9.2 Million
Colorado = $6.863 Million

Those are all Big 12. No checks will be written, but they will lose that revenue from the sharing pool and it will go to other schools, so essentially they are paying to get out.

Syracuse = $5 Million
Pitt = $5 Million
TCU = $5 Million

Syracuse and Pitt will pay the $5 Million and stay 4 years to get to the ACC after bolting from the Big East. TCU will pay $5 Million without having played a single game in the conference to get to the Big 12.

Fresno State = $900,000
Nevada = $900,000
Boise State = $750,000

All negotiated payouts for schools to leave the WAC for the Mtn West.

Missouri's exit fee from the Big 12 is going to have negotiations starting at $40 million according to the KC Star.

3. The contract was signed in March of 2011. Well after conference realignment talks heated up, and well after Nebraska, Colorado, and the host of WAC/C-USA/Mtn West teams had made moves.

Here's a summary of my points:

A. The conference knew well in advance what the market for exit fees should be in FBS football, yet they still crafted a contract where the MAXIMUM NEGOTIATED EXIT FEE will be around $500,000 in a best case scenario (that is my own hypothesized number based on the UMASS contract and current realignment events ). That is WELL below the exit fees negotiated at other Non AQ conferences, and a farce compared to the set market mentioned above. I personally think Temple and UMASS could get out with no exit fees, but that's a solely personal opinion.

B. Jack Welch is a $5+ Million donor at Umass. They have other $5+ Million Donors, PLUS a slew of $1+ Million and $500,000+Donors. The market and alumni base is huge and appears to be wealthy and supportive. Hell, John Calipari gives between $25k and $100k per year. Temple is in a similar, favorable financial condition with a more bottom heavy giving pyramid in comparison to UMASS's top heavy pyramid. If you have leverage (and the MAC did, as UMASS wanted in) with schools that have a lot of money in big markets - why not use the leverage to enhance conference stability via huge exit fees, especially as conference realignment unfolds exactly at the time of contract inception and negotiation?

I'm lumping Temple in with UMASS in these points, as it sounds like some sort of amendment/negotiation was done to Temple's deal when UMASS joined to make them virtual equals in the eyes of the MAC.

C. Again for the deaf, dumb, and blind posters - we're screwed. My original post was to say what a dumpster fire the MAC is and that I won't sit and heap praise on the conference, it's direction, or it's administration any longer. I didn't make any overtures that we could leave and head for greener pastures. The reality is quite the opposite and probably more skewed towards the First Street Forever idea of impending FCS status. Until the University finds a way to keep all our donor money in house, and not headed up 33 to Columbus - we're going to be bent over like Bruce Willis in Pulp Fiction.

Last Edited: 10/10/2011 8:57:31 PM by Bobcat Love

First Street Forever
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RE: Temple leaving the dumpster fire.....

Posted: 10/11/2011 12:23:38 AM

OhioCatFan wrote:

Oh dear.

Sure, more schools are moving up to what is known today as FBS. But what is FBS today ain't going to be FBS in 5-10 years.

The so-called BCS schools will form a new, higher division level. Ohio, the rest of the MAC, these new and future FBS schools you speak off, various directionals and the rest of the dregs will be a level below. Oh, and the "BCS" level will have a playoff system. Call it FPS. And the fans will love it.

It wil be interesting to see what the affect on Ohio football will be. The small time college atmosphere that many here enjoy (not a knock) might be able to thrive on a more intimate scale. Especially without us jerks who want to see Ohio compete on a national scale constantly raining on your parade. The audacity of some people...

And if transfer rules stay the same, maybe Ohio can see a Joe Flacco type come here once in awhile. That would be kinda cool. And I'm sure there will be somewhat of a buzz if we made the New D1-AA playoffs.

Trust me, this isn't what I wish for at night. I do think with some luck, a "take chances" scheduling philosophy, and some more luck Ohio can do something special - Boise State special. But, in continuing with BL's Pulp Fiction reference, sometimes you gotta realize that you're trapped in the gimp box and it ain't going to get better...

I don't endorse the furry lifestyle, but when the Bobkitten is involved things can change mighty quickly...

cc-cat
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RE: Temple leaving the dumpster fire.....

Posted: 10/11/2011 9:33:54 AM

It's a shame your client didn't show you the wonderful city that Philly is, as well as the beauty of the Main Line. Having grown up there and visited much more than 3 times while living in NYC I can assure you it is a great city. Your other comments (as is often the case) are sound and thought out. Unfortunately, as is often the case, they are diluted and distracted by angst and rants. Oh well.

Will be interesting to see what happens with the Big East and Temple. Not sure the conference will survive, certainly not in any shape or form versus its current structure. Don't be surprised if Nova takes considerable efforts to keep Temple out - if they want to move up to FBS football, they would be better served being the only B.E. dog in town. And as a critical B-ball member, they have considerable clout. While the conference needs teams, they may be better served adding geography than doubling down in Philly (especially with an aspiring FBS team (Nova) and a historically poor performing and drawing team (Temple). East Carolina (which draws 45,000+ per game), Central Florida and Memphis add TV markets. Much more important than adding Temple (assuming Nova moves up). We'll see.

Ted Thompson
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RE: Temple leaving the dumpster fire.....

Posted: 10/11/2011 10:19:11 AM

First Street Forever wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

So I'm assuming this new division will also apply to basketball?

Follow Ohio Football recruiting on the BobcatAttack.com football recruiting database.

Ted Thompson
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RE: Temple leaving the dumpster fire.....

Posted: 10/11/2011 10:24:45 AM

Bobcat Love wrote:

Love,

I read the contract a bit differently. The exit fee is $2.5M unless, for whatever reason, the MAC decides to shorten the term of the contract. If $5M is market for the Big East, then $2.5M doesn't seem out of line for the MAC. RCU, Utah and BYU didn't even have to pay exit fees to leave the Mountain West.

Follow Ohio Football recruiting on the BobcatAttack.com football recruiting database.

bobcat695
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RE: Temple leaving the dumpster fire.....

Posted: 10/11/2011 10:46:48 AM

There is only one way to coast....and that is downhill. The MAC has been coasting for decades with horrible leadership and an utter lack of vision. I agree with nearly every point Love made, especially the opinion that there is nothing ohio can do about our current situation. I feel like my car just shifted out of gear, rolled into a lake and I'm on dry land hopelessly watching it bobbing for a few seconds before sinking to the bottom.

"You can't un-fist a fist pump." - Saul Phillips 1/24/15

TUVideo Guy
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RE: Temple leaving the dumpster fire.....

Posted: 10/11/2011 11:03:12 AM

A turkey processing plant in Franconia is not Philadelphia. Franconia is an hour away.

Franconia is closer to Allentown than Philadelphia.

rpbobcat
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RE: Temple leaving the dumpster fire.....

Posted: 10/11/2011 12:20:34 PM

Just to add my $0.02 to the whole Temple to the Big East situation.

According to the papers out here,the Big East wants to expand to 12 football schools.

Problem is,most pundents think that,no matter what, both W V U and Louiville are gone.
With names that are being tossed around to expand the Big East (Navy,Air Force,East Carolina) most of my friends, who are RU big suppoters, think that ,even if the Big East survives as a football conference,the BCS berth is most likely history.

Bobcat Love
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RE: Temple leaving the dumpster fire.....

Posted: 10/11/2011 12:50:28 PM

A. Would you expect a 26 year old Consultant to stay in Franconia 4 days a week? I lodged in several different locations around Philly and commuted up 476. This is getting pretty lame.

B. Ted, what are we reading differently? I'm confused. Here is a quote from the article/contract:

But if either UMass or Temple were to announce a decision to leave, the other's membership could change.

In the event of a term contract, the remaining school would only need to pay $500,000 if it chose to withdraw.

Basically if Temple or UMASS opts out, the other can play in the MAC for one more year and then get out for $500,000 instead of $2.5m. Am I reading it wrong?

C. 695, love love love the car in the lake analogy. The Gimp Room is still more apt, but the car bobbing in the lake is pretty spot on.

Ted Thompson
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RE: Temple leaving the dumpster fire.....

Posted: 10/11/2011 12:58:35 PM

Bobcat Love wrote:

B. Ted, what are we reading differently? I'm confused. Here is a quote from the article/contract:

But if either UMass or Temple were to announce a decision to leave, the other's membership could change.

Love,

The way I read it is that the MAC has the option to convert the remaining team's membership to a term contract of no less than 2 years. If that happens, then the buyout is $500K (else it stays $2.5M). So the MAC is the trigger for the term contract, not the school. Unless I'm reading it wrong.

Follow Ohio Football recruiting on the BobcatAttack.com football recruiting database.

TUVideo Guy
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RE: Temple leaving the dumpster fire.....

Posted: 10/11/2011 1:01:46 PM

476 is not in Philadelphia either. You said earlier you stayed in Conshocken.
If you're going to bash a place. tell us exactly where you stayed.

cc-cat
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RE: Temple leaving the dumpster fire.....

Posted: 10/11/2011 2:01:05 PM

Bobcat Love wrote:

A. Would you expect a 26 year old Consultant to stay in Franconia 4 days a week? I lodged in several different locations around Philly and commuted up 476. This is getting pretty lame.

Agree, let's move on and focus on the real issues - Temple, UMass, MAC, Big East reallignment, implications, etc. Your interpretation of Philly is neither accurate (opinion), nor relevant (fact).

Mike Coleman
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RE: Temple leaving the dumpster fire.....

Posted: 10/11/2011 2:07:41 PM

Bobcat Love wrote:

Basically if Temple or UMASS opts out, the other can play in the MAC for one more year and then get out for $500,000 instead of $2.5m. Am I reading it wrong?

Only if the MAC puts a "term contract" on the remaining school. (Right now there apparently is no expiration on the contract.) If the MAC replaces Temple with another program, the buyout stays. If the MAC wants to keep UMass with no expiration, the buyout stays. It seems like the ball is in the MAC's court if Temple leaves, not UMass'.

Ohio69
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RE: Temple leaving the dumpster fire.....

Posted: 10/11/2011 2:16:12 PM

Bobcat Love wrote:

C. Again for the deaf, dumb, and blind posters - we're screwed. My original post was to say what a dumpster fire the MAC is and that I won't sit and heap praise on the conference, it's direction, or it's administration any longer. I didn't make any overtures that we could leave and head for greener pastures. The reality is quite the opposite and probably more skewed towards the First Street Forever idea of impending FCS status. Until the University finds a way to keep all our donor money in house, and not headed up 33 to Columbus - we're going to be bent over like Bruce Willis in Pulp Fiction.

I guess I don't consider this new news. So I assumed you were looking for Ohio to move out and up.

But, I don't blame the MAC Office much at all. The universities in the MAC have collectively decided not to spend much on athletics. That makes the MAC what it is more than who's running the MAC.

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

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