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Topic:  Phil Steele's Mid Season All Mac Teams

Topic:  Phil Steele's Mid Season All Mac Teams
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Keystone Bobcat Mom
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  Message Not Read  Phil Steele's Mid Season All Mac Teams
   Posted: 10/18/2011 8:10:41 PM 
http://philsteele.com/All_Conference/2011midseason/mac.html
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Ohio Pilot
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  Message Not Read  RE: Phil Steele's Mid Season All Mac Teams
   Posted: 10/18/2011 8:57:08 PM 
Brazill on 3rd team? He is a best. Thats crap
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Monroe Slavin
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  Message Not Read  RE: Phil Steele's Mid Season All Mac Teams
   Posted: 10/18/2011 9:17:13 PM 
As last year, reflects that we have few standouts.  Conclusion is a season like last year's.  Not helpful for usl:  ain't much Buffalo and Ball State there and are a lot of temples, WMich and NIU.

Where's the band?!
WHERE"S THE BAND?!


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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: Phil Steele's Mid Season All Mac Teams
   Posted: 10/18/2011 10:17:16 PM 
And they have nine players from BGSUCKS (1-2, 3-4), but only six from Toledo (3-0, 4-3).

These types of lists are usually worthless, anyway.  The first half of the season is filled with OOC games, which can vary wildly from team-to-team.  Toledo had a top-ranked 1AA school, two top 15 (at the time) 1A schools and Syracuse.  You have to give more weight -- even regarding individual performances -- to that schedule than BGSUCKS' (one mediocre 1AA  team, one very bad non-AQ team, one mediocre non-AQ team, and top-25 WVU).  All-conference teams should only be named at the end of the season.  Guess they have to have something to do this time of year.

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Ohio Alum84
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  Message Not Read  RE: Phil Steele's Mid Season All Mac Teams
   Posted: 10/18/2011 10:52:32 PM 
Ohio Pilot wrote:
Brazill on 3rd team? He is a best. Thats crap

AGREED!!!  How can Steele remotely consider that LAVON is anything other than 1st team.   I wouldn't trade LAVON for any of the other receivers or any  two or three of them.   And I looked several times at his list of LBers and didn't see NOAH KELLER. 
And I bought the guy's magazine the last 2 years.  No more Phil Steele mags as I seriosly question his credibility and reasoning.  Also, his position breakdowns are  so wordy because he talks about players as much as 7-8 years in the past rather than focusing on the current year.  GO BOBCATS!!!

Last Edited: 10/18/2011 10:53:33 PM by Ohio Alum84
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Voice of Reason
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  Message Not Read  RE: Phil Steele's Mid Season All Mac Teams
   Posted: 10/19/2011 8:19:48 AM 
You gentleman are letting you love for LaVon get in the way of statistics.  Of the WR's on the teams in front of LaVon all six are ahead of him in receiving yards per game and 5 of the 6 are ahead in receptions per game.  LaVon is having a good season, but there is absolutely no way that he is a first team receiver right now and would be an arguable second teamer.
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Ohio Pilot
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  Message Not Read  RE: Phil Steele's Mid Season All Mac Teams
   Posted: 10/19/2011 10:23:47 AM 
What about touchdowns? I wonder how he stacks up against the rest of the WRs.
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Ohio Pilot
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  Message Not Read  RE: Phil Steele's Mid Season All Mac Teams
   Posted: 10/19/2011 10:26:31 AM 
He has 7 TD's tied with jordan white for first.
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UpSan Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Phil Steele's Mid Season All Mac Teams
   Posted: 10/19/2011 10:28:46 AM 
I'm sure these are based almost soley on statistics. Coaches have a lot more film and other things to go by when they vote at the end of the year. I'm sure they will consider the impacts that Brazill and Keller have on the game when they vote on the actual teams at the end of the year. Of course, Keller hasn't been fully healthy until maybe recently. If he continues to have 15-tackle games, he'll move up. Things will change a lot from these teams to the real team at the end of the year.
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Casper71
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  Message Not Read  RE: Phil Steele's Mid Season All Mac Teams
   Posted: 10/19/2011 10:55:50 AM 
This does speak to one of the items I bought up in a different thread and I'll say it again.  I thought when this staff came to OHIO we would start to get really dominant personnel.  While we are getting some better players, we are not getting enough dominant ones.  If we had, we wouldn't be in dog fights with Buffs and Balls.  We just don't seem to be able to attract enough top quality players to Athens.  I'm beginning to think it is really more about location, location, location. 

Last Edited: 10/19/2011 10:56:39 AM by Casper71
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Bobcatbob
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  Message Not Read  RE: Phil Steele's Mid Season All Mac Teams
   Posted: 10/19/2011 11:24:42 AM 
When, exactly, did players start receiving awards for half a season anyway?

Just wondering.
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PutnamField
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  Message Not Read  RE: Phil Steele's Mid Season All Mac Teams
   Posted: 10/19/2011 11:28:31 AM 
Casper71 wrote:
This does speak to one of the items I bought up in a different thread and I'll say it again.  I thought when this staff came to OHIO we would start to get really dominant personnel.  While we are getting some better players, we are not getting enough dominant ones.  If we had, we wouldn't be in dog fights with Buffs and Balls.  We just don't seem to be able to attract enough top quality players to Athens.  I'm beginning to think it is really more about location, location, location. 


I think you're finding an excuse for something that other staffs manage to overcome.

Looking at which teams heavily populate the first and second teams, I see a lot of BGSU and WMU players.

Nobody can tell me that Bowling Green or Kalamazoo is a more desirable or hipper place to spend four years than Athens. I just don't buy it.
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UpSan Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Phil Steele's Mid Season All Mac Teams
   Posted: 10/19/2011 1:05:21 PM 
PutnamField wrote:
Casper71 wrote:
This does speak to one of the items I bought up in a different thread and I'll say it again.  I thought when this staff came to OHIO we would start to get really dominant personnel.  While we are getting some better players, we are not getting enough dominant ones.  If we had, we wouldn't be in dog fights with Buffs and Balls.  We just don't seem to be able to attract enough top quality players to Athens.  I'm beginning to think it is really more about location, location, location. 


I think you're finding an excuse for something that other staffs manage to overcome.

Looking at which teams heavily populate the first and second teams, I see a lot of BGSU and WMU players.

Nobody can tell me that Bowling Green or Kalamazoo is a more desirable or hipper place to spend four years than Athens. I just don't buy it.



I dont' think location is a key issue either, although BG with its proximity to Toledo and Kalazmazoo in a metropolitan area of more than 300,000 do have a lot more to offer than Athens. And it is a lot harder to get to Athens than those places if you are coming from a distance. Again, I doubt this is very often a factor but maybe on rare occassion.

I think the last recruiting class plus this one so far maybe offer some of the absolute standout players that we've been looking for. I hope so.
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Physicist MH55
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  Message Not Read  RE: Phil Steele's Mid Season All Mac Teams
   Posted: 10/20/2011 10:24:51 AM 
Mr Steele proves time and time again he has numerous shortcomings predicting football games and assessing talent.

He probably doesnt know that "]["emple's Punter Brandon McManus would be leading the nation in punting with a 48.3 avg if he qualified. NCAA stat rules require an avg of 3.6 punts per game but MAC Defenses can't seem to force the Owl to punt, therefore McManus, with 20 punts over 7 games, is 5 punts short of qualifying.
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Selby
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  Message Not Read  RE: Phil Steele's Mid Season All Mac Teams
   Posted: 10/20/2011 1:02:15 PM 
Isn't Strum a OT?
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Casper71
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  Message Not Read  RE: Phil Steele's Mid Season All Mac Teams
   Posted: 10/20/2011 2:15:27 PM 
Ok...a couple of people think it is NOT the location.  So, why after six/seven years haven't we gotten more of the 3-star plus guys and become a dominant team in the MAC?  Is it:  Academics?  Coaching staff?  Recruiting philosophy? Is it just The MAC?  Don't pay enough (joke)?  Other explanation? 
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Phil Steele's Mid Season All Mac Teams
   Posted: 10/20/2011 2:36:33 PM 
Casper71 wrote:
Ok...a couple of people think it is NOT the location.  So, why after six/seven years haven't we gotten more of the 3-star plus guys and become a dominant team in the MAC?  Is it:  Academics?  Coaching staff?  Recruiting philosophy? Is it just The MAC?  Don't pay enough (joke)?  Other explanation? 


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Casper71
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  Message Not Read  RE: Phil Steele's Mid Season All Mac Teams
   Posted: 10/20/2011 4:52:18 PM 
ding...ding...ding...we've got the answer!
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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: Phil Steele's Mid Season All Mac Teams
   Posted: 10/21/2011 10:58:26 AM 
Building a reputation for a school is a slow process.  It took about 150 years for OU to be recognized as a party school; now we're top ten every year.  Same holds true for the football team.  We were doormats for about 20 years, so there was little desire for 3-stars to come here.  It's taken six years for Solich to get things turned around.  Now we've got one of the top players in Nebraska (Jake Schany) turning down Colorado to come here.  One subtle indication that things have changed is the number of homecoming games OU plays.  Just a few years ago nearly everyone wanted to schedule OU for homecoming to have an easy win.  One year under Knorr I think we played four homecoming games in a row, including our own.  Virginia Tech even scheduled homecoming for late September just to have us as a win.  This year, the only homecoming game on the schedule was ours.  That's because OU's football reputation has changed.  The 3-stars and higher will be coming here, thanks to Solich & staff.

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PutnamField
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  Message Not Read  RE: Phil Steele's Mid Season All Mac Teams
   Posted: 10/21/2011 12:05:44 PM 
Pataskala wrote:
We were doormats for about 20 years, so there was little desire for 3-stars to come here.


For the 453rd time, we were not doormats for 20 years.

There is an excellent coach named Jim Grobe who led the Bobcats for several years in the late 1990s. He won the AP national coach of the year award at Wake Forest in 2006.

His teams in Athens were very competitive in multiple games against BCS opponents, including away games. I'm talking, like, winning against lower-tier "big-name" opponents and scaring the bejeezus out of top 20-type teams.

They didn't have tons of lame bowl games back then, and he never won a MAC title, so there wasn't as much glitz and glamor (or smoke and mirrors, if you prefer) surrounding the late-90s Bobcats.

There's not a single doubt in my mind that Grobe's Ohio team that nearly beat Kansas State on the road would have smoked any of Solich's teams.

Not saying any of this to be provocative or mean, but posters who don't acknowledge Grobe's success in Athens seem to be the ones who buy lock, stock and barrel this whole "Solich as savior" notion, which is overstated as I've just demonstrated.
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Robert Fox
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  Message Not Read  RE: Phil Steele's Mid Season All Mac Teams
   Posted: 10/21/2011 12:10:00 PM 
I agree with your point, except for the part about Grobe's team smoking any of Solich's. That's unprovable and--in my mind--not certain by any stretch.
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UpSan Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Phil Steele's Mid Season All Mac Teams
   Posted: 10/21/2011 1:30:14 PM 
PutnamField wrote:
Pataskala wrote:
We were doormats for about 20 years, so there was little desire for 3-stars to come here.


For the 453rd time, we were not doormats for 20 years.

There is an excellent coach named Jim Grobe who led the Bobcats for several years in the late 1990s. He won the AP national coach of the year award at Wake Forest in 2006.

His teams in Athens were very competitive in multiple games against BCS opponents, including away games. I'm talking, like, winning against lower-tier "big-name" opponents and scaring the bejeezus out of top 20-type teams.

They didn't have tons of lame bowl games back then, and he never won a MAC title, so there wasn't as much glitz and glamor (or smoke and mirrors, if you prefer) surrounding the late-90s Bobcats.

There's not a single doubt in my mind that Grobe's Ohio team that nearly beat Kansas State on the road would have smoked any of Solich's teams.

Not saying any of this to be provocative or mean, but posters who don't acknowledge Grobe's success in Athens seem to be the ones who buy lock, stock and barrel this whole "Solich as savior" notion, which is overstated as I've just demonstrated.


I guess it depends on what 20 years you're looking at and what you consider a "doormat." From 1977 to 1996, there were two winning seasons, both 6-5. Of course the worst of that was 1985 to 1995 when in those 11 years there were 19 wins total. I certainly don't think anyone would group Grobe's years as those kind, with maybe the excpetion of the first (which you can't really hold against him after inheriting a winless team).
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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: Phil Steele's Mid Season All Mac Teams
   Posted: 10/21/2011 1:41:01 PM 

I said for "about 20 years."  The last five years of Grobe's tenure were the exception, although even then there were two or three years in a row where we didn't win an OOC game.  Still, the doormat reputation lived on, at least in the eyes of most recruits.  That was just starting to change when Grobe moved on but came back during the Knorr years.

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We will get by.
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