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Topic: Ohio Ranks 112 out of 120 teams in recruiting?

Topic: Ohio Ranks 112 out of 120 teams in recruiting?

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Sony7
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Ohio Ranks 112 out of 120 teams in recruiting?

Posted: 1/16/2012 7:28:17 PM

According to Scout.com Ohio football was ranked 112 out of 120 teams this year for our recruiting class. Here's the link http://recruiting.scout.com/a.z?s=73&p=9&c=14&...; Click college, then football and slide down to the bottom of the page.
Can this be true after building such a strong program over the years? Why is this?

Last Edited: 1/16/2012 7:32:10 PM by Sony7

Go Bobcats!

SONY7

Ted Thompson
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RE: Ohio Ranks 112 out of 120 teams in recruiting?

Posted: 1/16/2012 7:35:29 PM

Sony7 wrote:

Scout.com has Mose Denton in Ohio's 2012 class. That's all you need to know about Scout.com. Ranking recruiting classes is almost worthless. The ultimate measure of recruits is how they perform together as a team. Ohio has done well in that regard and may have another player drafted this year (would make 4th time in past 5 years).

Follow Ohio Football recruiting on the BobcatAttack.com football recruiting database.

Sony7
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RE: Ohio Ranks 112 out of 120 teams in recruiting?

Posted: 1/16/2012 7:50:00 PM

Hope you're right. I do not know a thing about Scout - I saw a link that said, "Top football recruiting classes", .on msn.com so I thought I'd check it out . I have msn.com as my homepage. I was just shocked to see us ranked so low after all the success we've had lately.

Go Bobcats!

SONY7

Valley Cat
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RE: Ohio Ranks 112 out of 120 teams in recruiting?

Posted: 1/16/2012 8:02:35 PM

If I remember Scout also does not count JUCO players. I think they factor them into the count but don't rate them. Doc correct me if I am wrong. Folks prepare yourself for a poorly rated class which essentially means nothing.

Pataskala
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RE: Ohio Ranks 112 out of 120 teams in recruiting?

Posted: 1/16/2012 9:41:12 PM

Ranking is too much in the eye of the beholder. Rivals has OU with four 3-star recruits: Wade Wells (signed), Tim Edmond, Chris Murray and Jake Schany. Scout (dba College Football News) has no 3-star recruits for Ohio. Wells is a JUCO, so he's unrated; Murray is a 2-star; Edmond and Schany aren't even listed. Scout shows 9 recruits but Rivals has 10. For comparison, both had LaVon Brazil, Noah Keller, Joe Flading, AJ Strum and Tyler Tettleton all at 2 stars. The rankings basically don't mean squat. It's how they fit into the system and how they develop as players and men.

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We will survive.

Bobcatzblitz
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RE: Ohio Ranks 112 out of 120 teams in recruiting?

Posted: 1/16/2012 10:42:05 PM

Rankings only mean something for the guys getting 4-5 star recruits.

BuddyLee
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RE: Ohio Ranks 112 out of 120 teams in recruiting?

Posted: 1/17/2012 12:22:59 AM

At this point I'm getting pretty concerned. I gave the staff some time to fill out the class, but now signing day is right around the corner and we're still way behind most other Mac schools based on all the rankings. Unless we get a bunch of late surprises, this will easily go down as the worst class in the Solich tenure. Only thing I can think of is that the staff is settling on lesser players just to get them easily signed instead of engaging the tough in recruiting battles. And don't tell me just to blindly trust our staff to find a bunch of diamonds in the rough, because we have way too many recruits this year with little or no offers besides us. Based on our team's recent success this is just unacceptable and somebody needs to be held accountable.

Last Edited: 1/17/2012 12:28:55 AM by BuddyLee

Bcat2
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RE: Ohio Ranks 112 out of 120 teams in recruiting?

Posted: 1/17/2012 7:14:58 AM

BuddyLee wrote:

Darn, BuddyLee gave the staff time, but, now they are behind other MAC scools, per the ratings,"this is unacceptable and somebody needs to be held accountable." Gee Buddy, the value of this class won't be known for four/five years. Save the drama, please.

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

Doc Bobcat
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RE: Ohio Ranks 112 out of 120 teams in recruiting?

Posted: 1/17/2012 9:37:19 AM

BuddyLee wrote:

At this point I'm getting pretty concerned. I gave the staff some time to fill out the class, but now signing day is right around the corner and we're still way behind most other Mac schools based on all the rankings. Unless we get a bunch of late surprises, this will easily go down as the worst class in the Solich tenure. Only thing I can think of is that the staff is settling on lesser players just to get them easily signed instead of engaging the tough in recruiting battles. And don't tell me just to blindly trust our staff to find a bunch of diamonds in the rough, because we have way too many recruits this year with little or no offers besides us. Based on our team's recent success this is just unacceptable and somebody needs to be held accountable.

There are a few reasons why Scout always ranks us low. Teams that have more offers get more points. Also Scout historically does crappy research on MAC recruits. Many MAC schools publicize their verbals more. And finally we do land a few more under-the-radar guys but that's worked out for Solich so far.

It sometimes looks as if BCS schools get all the recruits....and that makes our board look a little warped since we're goin after top players and of course we should. We do better against MAC schools than you might think. Sometimes it's as simple as guys that other schools have rated higher than us. We had a couple of DB's that we offered this year but Ball State was the only other MAC school that offered and they verbaled to Ball.

Here are some unofficial numbers of MAC offers to guys that verbaled to us.....numbers plus of course OUr offer:

Troy Watson-7 MAC schools

John Tanner- 3 MAC schools

Malik Rodriguez- 2 MAC schools

Kurt Laseak- 2 MAC schools

It looks like that we lost about 5 to other MAC schools....5 guys that we went after hard.....others we don't go after as hard for various reasons including grades and need, etc.

With the 4 JUCOS that we have verbals from one of them (Tim Edmond) in high school was offered by MAC schools and Illinois. Right now what hurts us the most is the small class and only about a dozen verbals with a half dozen or more spots remaining. Here are offers for a few other of our recruits:

Jake Schany- Colorado-Tulane

Greg Windham-UC-Troy-Western Ky.

Chris Murray-Illinois-Iowa St.-Kansas-Wash. St.

Last Edited: 1/17/2012 9:39:03 AM by Doc Bobcat

Bobcat36
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RE: Ohio Ranks 112 out of 120 teams in recruiting?

Posted: 1/17/2012 9:51:52 AM

Thanks for the clarity Doc!

This summary proves what we already knew...These rankings are a self serving fallacy. OUr staff spends countless hours evaluating both talent and (thankfully) makeup of prospective recruits. I think we can trust their better judgment. In Solich We Trust!

GoBobcats!!!! Always have been and always will be... Ohio's First and Finest!

mf279801
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RE: Ohio Ranks 112 out of 120 teams in recruiting?

Posted: 1/17/2012 9:58:19 AM

Excepting the top tier guys, the biggest factor in determining how many stars a high school football player gets is (a) what schools/conferences are recruiting him and (b) what the other ratings services are saying.

Ranking recruiting classes is a useless endeavor. It is just something to provide message board talk in the off season. Ranking recruiting classes before letters of intent are signed is especially worthless.

Bobcat Grad 86
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RE: Ohio Ranks 112 out of 120 teams in recruiting?

Posted: 1/17/2012 12:32:20 PM

You need to place some common sense in rankings. Rivals has Temple as the top rated MAC class so far, but that is only because they graduated or lost more players than anybody else. They have the second lowest average rated stars per player. Of course, the number of stars can be misleading or a joke anyway.

Ohio is rated 8th, but has the second best average of starts per verbal.

I remember when we made such a huge deal of getting one three star player in Stafford Owens. This year we have 40% of our recruits rated at three stars.

On the whole, it seems like all of the MAC schools are gettng more three players than a decade ago. Not sure if that is actually better recruiting or there are more players rated at three.

Seems to me Frank continues to do a good job in recruiting. All I know is that he is winning more than any other Ohio coach since 1968.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/teamrank/2012/MIDAM/all

Last Edited: 1/17/2012 12:37:20 PM by Bobcat Grad 86

Physicist MH55
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RE: Ohio Ranks 112 out of 120 teams in recruiting?

Posted: 1/17/2012 2:57:58 PM

Bobcat Grad 86 wrote:

Rivals has "]["emple as the top rated MAC class so farl

Take note, Bobcat36. I didnt post a word....

L.C.
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RE: Ohio Ranks 112 out of 120 teams in recruiting?

Posted: 1/17/2012 3:29:46 PM

I think everyone covered the reasons well, but for summary:
1. Services focus on top schools: The recruiting services primarily focus on the top schools. One can dispute how accurate they are even at the top, but there is little doubt that they have no ability to separate the teams towards the bottom because it is one thing to accurately rate the top 150 players, and quite another to accurately rate the top 1500 players.
2. Size matters: They give points for each recruit. When you have a small recruiting class, that hurts. Ohio is going to sign under 20 players this year, while IIemple will recruit over 28-33, which they always do. Contrasting the programs, one recruits less, and keeps the kids in the system to develop, which the other has more of a revolving door, allowing them to recruit more players a year. That helps the recruiting ranking, but does it help on the field?
3. Grades don't matter: Some schools like IIemple recruit a lot of kids knowing they will not qualify. Having them on the list boosts the rating of their classes, but since they don't enroll (at least not that year). the value is less than it might seem.
4. Walkons don't count: Ohio has a strong walkon program and awards 1-2 scholarships a year to walkons. When Ohio awards a scholarship to a walkon player, they are getting a player they know will be able to contribute. These players are NEVER counted in any year's recruiting classes. Since size matters, and this reduces the numbers of scholarships that can be awarded in any given year, it hurts the ranking, yet helps the team. Think of this way - you have one scholarship, and three kids that are possible. If you give it to one kid, it helps the ranking. If you get all three to walk on, and then give it to the best of the three, it hurts the ranking.
5. Signing day surprises: Ohio is known for keeping their cards close to the vest, particularly when it comes to hidden gems. Every year there are surprises on signing day. Sometimes the surprises are good ones, sometimes not so good. A few guys that we never heard of at all until signing day are Lavon Brazill, Travis Carrie, and Marcellis Willaimson, and even though the ratings services had no idea that any of them even existed, they turned out ok.

Not all the surprises have good, but I think the case could be made that the surprises have been at least as good as the rest of the classes.
6. Character doesn't matter: Ohio's staff seems to be putting an increasing emphasis on character, and I think that's a good thing, but it doesn't help you in the rankings.

Since this is going to be a very small class, my expectations for how it would be ranked have always been low. To me the key thing is that the few players they get are good, and this class seems to be very good. I have a composite rating system that factors in ratings from Scout, Rivals, ESPN, and who else offered, and on my scale the average rating of the players in this class is very high. That rating has progressively gone up each year, by the way, and when all is said and done, this year's class will probably be close to last year's, perhaps a bit higher.

The key thing is that this class is coming in not much differently than other classes, so I see no reason to believe that when all it said and done it will be remarkably different. I have little doubt that most or all of the players in the class have the ability to help the team. Note that that is different than the norm for lower recruiting classes - the norm is to get some good players, and some that don't work out. Solich's staff has more typically brought in some that are good, many that can help the team, and very few that never contribute.

In the end the key will be how they perform on the field. That's why Bcat2 said to ask him in 4-5 years how this class was. I think they will be fine. I also know they won't be ranked very highly, but I am not concerned about that.

Last Edited: 1/17/2012 3:33:48 PM by L.C.

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Bobcat36
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RE: Ohio Ranks 112 out of 120 teams in recruiting?

Posted: 1/17/2012 3:57:48 PM

MH55 wrote:

Bobcat Grad 86 wrote:

Rivals has "]["emple as the top rated MAC class so farl

Take note, Bobcat36. I didnt post a word....

I knew I had sensed a disturbance in The Force...

GoBobcats!!!! Always have been and always will be... Ohio's First and Finest!

L.C.
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RE: Ohio Ranks 112 out of 120 teams in recruiting?

Posted: 1/17/2012 5:08:15 PM

BuddyLee wrote:

I have been using the same formula to evaluate recruits for a number of years. It isn't rocket science, just a blended composite of ratings from Scout.com, rivals, and ESPN, plus how many offers they have, and from whom. It doesn't include any subjective factors. It doesn't even include mentions on Doc's wish list. There are a couple grade-inflation factors that mess up year-to-year comparisons, though. For example in about 2009 scout stopped giving out 1-star ratings, and now everyone gets 2. Also at about that time rivals stopped giving ratings of 4.9, 5.0, and 5.1, and now the minimum is 5.2. Nevertheless, the year by year averages for incoming freshmen on my system are:
2006 - 174
2007 - 179
2008 - 226
2009 - 253
2010 - 227
2011 - 296
2012 (so far) - 309
Leading point-getters on my system are Murry with 463, Watson with 396, Schany at 360, and Windham with 355. For comparison, the only other prior recruits rated over 340 are:

2008- Bakari Bussey 444, Matt Britain 403, Gerald Moore 371
2009- Jon Lechner 482, Xavier Hughes 368
2010- Nathan Carpenter 347
2011- Ben Russell 465, Landon Smith 442, Antwan Crutcher 439, Eric Price 389, Tony Davis 375, Jacob Welter 357, Lorenzo Fisher 344

Easily the worst? Nah, I don't think so, though certainly one of the smallest. I'm expecting it to be in the 15-18 range when done

Last Edited: 1/17/2012 5:42:20 PM by L.C.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

BuddyLee
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RE: Ohio Ranks 112 out of 120 teams in recruiting?

Posted: 1/17/2012 8:28:00 PM

What's with all the freaking jucos this year. Sure looks like a desperate strategy to try to win now, but hopefully it doesn't cost us in the long term when all those jucos graduate. Lack of Ohio guys is also very disturbing. And we better get another running back and another quarterback signed. Not trying to sound too negative, but just sick of seeing all these other Mac schools filled up, and our coaches can't even get the recruiting services up to date list of our verbals. Think about it, players interested in possibly coming to Ohio are checking scout, espn and rivals to see how our class is shaping up. When they see barely any top players signed they might look elsewhere like Temple or Miami where the class looks stronger. And when signing day comes around we always take forever to announce the players, happens every year for some reason. We don't have a very good PR staff when it comes to recruiting. I'm tired of all the secretive stuff coaches, just give us the info we need!!

Bobcat Grad 86
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RE: Ohio Ranks 112 out of 120 teams in recruiting?

Posted: 1/17/2012 8:53:52 PM

MH55 wrote:

Bobcat Grad 86 wrote:

Rivals has "]["emple as the top rated MAC class so farl

Take note, Bobcat36. I didnt post a word....

Here is the rest of the quote that you left off:

"but that is only because they graduated or lost more players than anybody else. They have the second lowest average rated stars per player".

L.C.
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RE: Ohio Ranks 112 out of 120 teams in recruiting?

Posted: 1/17/2012 10:22:32 PM

Here's the thing with Jucos. A team can give 85 scholarships total, but 25 a year. That means that in a five year period they can give 125 scholarships, but only 85 can be on scholarship at the same time. Now, a few schools like IIemple have found ways to lose enough players from from the scholarship roles to make that work, but at Ohio most kids tend to stay for the full 4-5 years. If you mix in some Juco's, who only stay 2-3 years, that helps things stay in balance. Frankly I think that when the reduced the total number of scholarships from 100 to 85 the should have reduced the yearly maximum from 25 to 21-22 or so, and then you'd have less of an issue. Almost all schools take some Juco's now because of the imbalance inherent in the 25/85 limits.

As for the lack of Ohio guys, that seems to ebb and flow. Some years there are more than others.

I do think that the coaches try to keep many of the recruits hidden until the last minute. I have no idea if they tell potential recruits more, but I think that when they land someone like Carrie, Williamson, or Brazill that the services are not aware of, the last thing they want to have happen is for the services to review them, bump the rating to 3-4 stars, and then have them end up with more offers. Consider what happened when Carl Pelini went to Nebraska. He knew about Zach Domicone, one of Ohio's hidden recruits, and then Nebraska offered him, following which Ohio State became aware of him, and they offered him, too, so Ohio lost the guy. Sometimes a little secrecy is a good thing.

Last Edited: 1/17/2012 10:42:31 PM by L.C.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

Mike Johnson
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RE: Ohio Ranks 112 out of 120 teams in recruiting?

Posted: 1/17/2012 10:32:49 PM

BuddyLee wrote:

I agree re the need for a top flight RB. Indeed, it distresses me that in recent years Ohio hasn't recruited an RB who seems the equal of the top RBs at some other MAC schools.

BUt...It isn't likely that the PR or Media Relations staffers at ANY school are the decison makers re communicating about recruits.

Re your closing comment. Who among us bobcatattackers actually "needs" more info on recruits?

http://www.facebook.com/mikejohnson.author

Sony7
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RE: Ohio Ranks 112 out of 120 teams in recruiting?

Posted: 1/17/2012 10:46:45 PM

Well, I think I learned a few things about how recruiting rankings are determined. Thanks everyone for your feedback. If Ohio is always rated low, yet we've been steadily one of the top teams in the MAC, it must not be important how they rank us. However; I can see how being poorly ranked near the bottom of the nation in recruiting could hurt Ohio in its recruiting efforts. I do think the success of the team during the past six years should overshadow a fictitious ranking. I look at it like this; if Ohio is really one of the worst schools at recruiting, but is consistently on top of the conference standings, Ohio is the place to be because the coaching staff can get the best out of the players. Am I right? If not, these rankings are made by writers who do not know what they are talking about. The proof is on the field. Enough said.

Go Bobcats!

SONY7

L.C.
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RE: Ohio Ranks 112 out of 120 teams in recruiting?

Posted: 1/17/2012 11:27:33 PM

For those who want to see more about about Ohio's recruits this year, but don't read the recruiting board, Mike Coleman posted this highlight film showing two of the more highly ranked Ohio recruits in action. In the early film you see Windham taking some sacks, and an interception when he is hit while throwing, but stuff gets a lot better at the 2:40 mark, and the play at 5:50, Windham to Murray, should get people pumped a little.

�We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.� ― Epictetus

LoganElm_grad09
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RE: Ohio Ranks 112 out of 120 teams in recruiting?

Posted: 1/18/2012 12:06:33 AM

I would love to see us recruit Ohio better, Pennsylvania would be good too. I like that we're starting to get Glenville kids to come to Athens. But let's be realistic about something. We're competing with Ohio State, Notre Dame, Michigan, Penn State, Michigan State, plus half of our entire conference is in this state... starting to get the picture? Coach does a fantastic job recruiting JUCO's and out of state players, Florida and Nebraska are starting to become good places.

And as for rankings, they're about as useful as any stat out there. Looks good on paper, but who is one of the top teams in the East every year? I think the name has four letters, one of the few times when a four letter word is a good thing.

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Ohio Ranks 112 out of 120 teams in recruiting?

Posted: 1/18/2012 3:00:29 AM

Please achieve Master of Obvious here: All other schools may win the mythical (hey, it doesn't exist!) recruiting crown. I'll take success on the field with fine student-athletes.

We've been doing it. And, for the nth time, this staff judges and develops talent well and puts an emph on guys who will comee to Ohio University and stay.

See you in August.

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DelBobcat
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RE: Ohio Ranks 112 out of 120 teams in recruiting?

Posted: 1/18/2012 1:23:47 PM

L.C. wrote:

BuddyLee wrote:

This is great stuff!

BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012

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